Baretta/Colt 22lr pistol origination question.

[mrmeval]

Who made this style pistol first? The style is the Neos U22 or Colt Model 22 post woodsman. Both are near identical internally.

[Snake Eyes]

Colt Woodsman 1st Series began in 1927
Beretta Neos--Not listed in My 2002 Standard Catalog of Firearms, so (safe to say) manufacturing began, oh, some SEVENTY FIVE years after the Colt.

PS--If you spell Beretta correctly, it returns more hits when using the search function: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=210073

**Edit to add: Just checked the online https://store.bluebookinc.com/Ecom/ProductDetail.aspx?Industry=1&category=1&product=145 and found the Neos was new in 2002.

[mrmeval]

I said post woodsman. Go to Numrich and look up the Colt Model 22 then look around on line for the Neos U22 find a drawing and compare them. Yours is a pretty low road post and I've not gotten anything of substance from it but I did correct the spullink.

[Ron James]

`The Challenger, Huntsman, and Targetsman started in 1950. The Challenger in 1950. Huntsman in 1955 and Targetman in 1957. from 1950 untill 1977. Which do you think came first?? The chicken or the egg?

[Snake Eyes]

Yours is a pretty low road post and I've not gotten anything of substance from it

Really? Nothing of "substance"? I thought I directly answered the question you asked. Wait. Let me check....Who made this style pistol first? The style is the Neos U22 or Colt Model 22 post woodsman.

Aahhh..."post" Woodsman "Model 22"...OK...I checked the Standard Catalog of Firearms, R.L. Wilson and The Blue Book of Gun Values and I can't find that Colt ever produced a "Model 22".

Colt DID produce the following .22 caliber semi-automatic pistols, with corresponding starting dates of production:

Service Model Ace--1937
Pre-Woodsman--1915
1st Series Woodsman--1927
1st Series Woodsman Target Match--1938
2nd Series Woodsman--1948
3rd Series Woodsman--1955 (Through 1977)
Huntsman--1955
Tagetsman--1959
Cadet/Colt .22--1994 (This is probably the one you're thinking of, No?)
Colt .22 Target--1995
(I excluded the Colt Junior Pocket Model for obvious reasons)

Did I miss any? Does this meet your definition of "substance"? I sure hope so! I strive to be of service where possible.

:)

[mrmeval]

I asked a simple question and you blew it out of proportion and got rude and snotty about it. I don't trust anything you say and would ask someone with some class to answer.

[Old Fuff]

mrmeval:

Get out your Numrich catalog again and look up the High-Standard Dura-Matic, Model 100-101 Series (Also the JC Higgins Model 80).

Then the Colt Model 22 (which was a Colt, but not a post or pre-Woodsman).

Notice anything? :uhoh:

Then check out the Beretta Neos U22...

Is the light dawning?? :scrutiny:

There is an old saying in the firearms industry: Companies come, and companies go, but tooling goes on forerver...

Yup, you're right. The designed started with High Standard, Colt picked up the design and some tooling, and in time it all ended up with Beretta - that is for now. :cool:

And guys, look for yourselves and then admit he was mostly right. :neener: :D

[Snake Eyes]

Old Fuff,

I checked several sources and couldn't find a "Model 22". The closest I came was the "Colt 22", which was a re-naming of the Cadet, as explained in the Blue Book:
CADET - .22 LR cal., 4 1/2 in. barrel, stainless steel, 10 shot mag., predecessor to the Colt 22 Model, originally introduced in 1994, fixed sights, this model was disc. by 1995 because of litigation involving the trademarked model name

This appears to be the same gun as diagrammed at Numrich, which I see they refer to as the "Model 22". Is there some Colt source for this model name, or did Numrich just "create" it while developing their catalog (just curious).

(BTW--I had never heard of Numrich and while I may be "rude" :scrutiny:, I'm not lazy--I Googled them and found them right away.)

[Jim Keenan]

Old Fuff is correct. The design began, AFAIK, with the High Standard Duramatic, then when HS went out of business, it was obtained by Colt, which wanted a .22 auto in the line.

Colt first called it the Cadet, but the owners of the Iver Johnson name threatened suit as IJ had used that name for a .22 revolver some years ago. Colt then called the gun simply "the Colt .22" (not "Model 22"). Beretta then brought out the NEOS, using the same design; whether they got a license or not I don't know, but the patents have probably expired.

The design is not really a very good one. It is simple and inexpensive, but depends on two coil springs - the slide return spring and the firing pin spring - being perfectly balanced. If one or the other weakens (and they do), misfires or misfeeding results. I never worked on the Colts or the Beretta, but the HS guns were a PITA. I hope the later guns are better, but I have no real reason for optimism.

FWIW, the Colt Cadet/Colt .22 is not really a successor to any previous Colt .22 auto, except in that it was made by Colt. It is an entirely different gun from the Woodsman series.

Jim

[Old Fuff]

I see they refer to as the "Model 22". Is there some Colt source for this model name, or did Numrich just "create" it while developing their catalog (just curious).

See Jim Keenan's excellent post above, with the answer. When Colt dropped the name "Cadet" Numrich did too.

I had never heard of Numrich and while I may be "rude" , I'm not lazy--

WAHT!! You never heard of the World's largest supplier of gun parts... :eek:

Their catalog is over 2 1/2" thick... :what:

And you aren't rude exactly, just... ah... misinformed. :D

[Old Fuff]

Jim:

... but the HS guns were a PITA.

I never found them to be any trouble... I simply took the pistol apart, threw everything away, and started over. :evil: :neener: :D

[mrmeval]

Thanks for the info Old Fuff that is what I was looking for. I had wanted to know the originator of the design. The words "post woodsman" means what came after the woodsman series.

It seems I have lit the fire of righteousness under a few for daring to compare a Colt to a Beretta which has happened twice now when I only had simple questions.

[mrmeval]

Jim when I first got the Neos it did something that is probably similar to what you say.

The symptom I had was the gun would yank a cartridge out before the powder had completely burned and spit it down the magazine well and out the sides.

After running a hundred rounds through that problem cleared up and has not repeated. I don't know if it the springs had to weaken a bit or if some other parts had to adjust.