[GregGry]

I ran into this video, and I figured I would share it. I have never used wolf brand rifle ammo, but I know thier pistol ammo works ok.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXpVzd7GsEk

[Gary G23]

My sound isn't working on my computer right now so I couldn't hear what they were saying. I have had failures to fire with every case of Wolf ammo I have ever bought. Both 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. Conversely, I have never had a failure to fire with other brands in my AK's.

[ny32182]

I've never had a round of Wolf fail to function properly. Old stuff, new stuff, you name it. Its all been perfect. 7.62x39 is the only one I use though, and most people tend to think that is their best. When my current stashes run out (or maybe before that), I plan to stock up on the "military classic" for serious purposes, since it has a bullet that exhibits good terminal performance from all accounts so far.

[ID_shooting]

This smells strangely familiar, of I know what it is, Male Bovine Excrement!

My AK/SKS rifles get nothing but wolf to eat, several cases worth this year alone, not one stoppage of any kind.

Methinks the guys rifle has issues, weak spring, worn firing pin, somthing.

[db_tanker]

Toro Fecundus Maximus


'nuff said.


D

[Onmilo]

My personal opinion is that their stuff is crap but there are plenty of dissenting voices who will disagree.

[Father Knows Best]

I use Wolf 7.62x39 in my AK. It works great. I've run three varieties of it, in fact -- 123 gr FMJ and HP, and 154 gr SP. I've never had any problems with any of it.

I don't buy Wolf for use in any of my other firearms, because I prefer to buy brass-cased, reloadable ammo. I buy Wolf for my AK because it's cheap and pretty much the only reasonably priced option.

Incidentally, I've heard good things recently about the Wolf "Gold" line, which is brass cased and reloadable. I haven't tried it personally, but I understand it is made by Prvi Partisan in Serbia. The steel-cased Wolf ammo is made in Russia by several different arsenals. I may actually try some of the Wolf Gold in my other rifles and see how it works. I just need to find some.

[The Grand Inquisitor]

I question the veracity of that test.


I've used 5k+ rounds of Wolf in x39 and 2k+ of 5.45 and I have never had a single problem in 3 Ak47's and 2 AK74's.

More than likely, he is either trying to pan Wolf for some unknown reason, or he has some problems with his rifle or mag.

[atblis]

to see if there are light strikes on the primers.

Personally I've never had a problem with Wolf, but it has been a copule years since I've bought any (223 is cheaper so I'll shoot my other rifles).

[Carl N. Brown]

My son and I are working our way through a case of Wolf
7.62x39 in a Yugo SKS and two Yugo AKs (plus I have
bought several hundred round baggies of Wolf 7.62x39.

We have had no problems so far with literal hundreds of
rounds. Our cousins shoot Wolf 7.62x39 and 9mm, again
with none of the problems alleged.

[mainmech48]

The only problems that I've ever had with Wolf handgun ammo are confined to the older .45 ACP with the lacquered cases. To be fair and frank, those were also peculiar to two particular 1911s with "match" chambers. After a couple of mags, I'd start getting failures to extract and "stovepipes". It ran fine in my other .45s, though there was a good deal of sooty powder fouling.

I've used a lot of their 7.62x39 in my various SKSes and Mini-30. The only feeding related problems came with aftermarket high-caps, in which case they did the same things with about every other brand, too. I've never had a failure to fire with it.

I'd venture to guess that the issue(s) reside in the particular weapon somewhere. Lots of the AR devotees at our club use the Wolf 5.56 almost exclusively and they run through a bunch of it. Even though they might purchase it primarily because it's the least expensive, they generally aren't the type to put up with much hassle for the sake of absolute economy.

[the naked prophet]

I've never had a problem with Wolf in my Romanian AK. Interestingly enough, in about 500 rounds of Yugoslavian M67 ammunition, I've had one primer not go off, and one round jam because the bullet set back in the case instead of loading - turns out, there was no crimp and no powder. If that round had loaded and I had tried to fire it, it probably would have gotten stuck in the barrel.

[Will Learn]

+1 on what atblis said, I don't think it would be a problem with the mags as they seem to be feeding properly. I think this guy should get a new firing pin, but it is interesting that he had no FTFs with the Silver Bear. Do they have higher quality (or more sensetive) primers?

[MD_Willington]

#1 Put 10 rounds in SKS
#2 Exert pressure on trigger 10 times
#3 Go back to #1

wash-rinse-repeat

Pretty much how it goes when we shoot it.

[Manedwolf]

Just ask a new range if they'll allow it before you go. Some indoor ranges, even those that allow rifle, will not allow Wolf because it stinks up the place.

[Bottom Gun]

I have shot approx 8-10 thousand rounds of Wolf, both rifle and pistol. I have had ONE problem with a primer which was seated crooked and it resulted in a hang fire.

Aside from that, it has worked fine. The powder smells a little different than what we are accustomed to but it's not nasty.
It will sometimes leave a slight red lacquer residue on my bolt face, but that's no big deal and it brushes right off.

It is not loaded quite as hot as military ball ammo but it is fine for plinking or practice. It's good inexpensive practice ammo.

Anyone who has some and doesn't want to ruin their gun by shooting it, please PM me for my shipping address. I'll be happy to dispose of it for you.

[foghornl]

Have run a few thousand through my Yugo SKS witn no problem.

3 boxes (150 rounds) of .45ACP through my KP-90 Ruger...works fine, but is a bit 'stinky'

[Number 6]

This guy needs to check out what is wrong with his rifle, not what's wrong with the ammo. I have put about 4000 rounds of wolf through my two SKS with a grand total of 2 stovepipes, which were a result of a bad extractor. In combloc weapons I have heard nothing but good things about Wolf ammo.

[patski]

Hi. I'm a THR newbie but I've been shooting or a few years.

I agree with those of you who questioned the guy's rifle. I think the Silver Bear is loaded more like commercial ammo with softer primers and Wolf is loaded more to military specs using harder primers. Shooting both, the Wolf seems to be loaded a little hotter. A new firing pin or hammer spring might cure his problems.

Back when I shot my sks's a lot, I put thousands of rounds of Wolf and Silver Bear thru them and both were very reliable.

[Alex45ACP]

I put 1200 rounds of Wolf 9mm through my GLOCK 17 without a single problem.

[GregGry]

Ok thanks for all the opinions. I know wolf ammo tends to be dirty, smell not so great, and etc, but I figured if their ammo was that bad it wouldn't be on the market. I thought maybe light primer strikes would be the key, but I didn't know why the other ammo would work ok. I never thought of diffrent hardness of primers, that could make a world of a difference in a gun that needs some TLC.

[Gewehr98]

But I agree with Onmilo, Wolf is crap ammo, save for their rimfire line, made in Germany. That's not saying it's not reliable crap ammo that goes "bang" the majority of the time, but it doesn't go in my SKS or AK rifles, period. Lacquer deposits in the chamber and 4MOA or worse accuracy doesn't fit in my ammunition scheme. It will always sell, because it's cheap, usually readily available, people don't want to spend the money for better quality and accuracy because they heard the AK and SKS rifles aren't accurate (garbage in = garbage out, btw), and because American domestic ammo manufacturers just don't want to produce it in discount quantities when the cheap imported crap is still easy to come by. Myself, it doesn't hurt my feelings either way, I've got about 10K reloadable brass and components to make that 10K into ammo, plus several Dillon presses.

Manedwolf, there are many ranges that won't allow the steel-cased stuff. I'd seriously considered it when I was a range officer in Lincoln, PRK. The stink of the fired ammo isn't their reason for barring it. It's the steel casings laying around rusting and generally trashing up the place that causes the ban, as well as the older milsurp ammo (now banned from import) that had steel cores tearing up backstops and sparking fires.

I've been to several ranges that won't allow steel-cased ammo to be fired. Some range operations collect, sort, and sell the once-fired brass to offset costs. Steel-cased stuff needs to be collected with a magnet or sorted out as an extra step before the good reloadable brass can be handled.

[RH822]

I fire Wolf 7.62x39, 5.56mm, 9mm and 45 acp and have never had a ftf. But what gets me about the bonehead on the video is...did you notice how quick he was to eject a round with a dented primer that could still go off? My guess is he had one bad experience and now blames Wolf ammo for everything that is wrong with his rifle. We also must remember he could have loaded dummy rounds in his mags.

RH

[silverlance]

That's a rigged test for sure, or a rifle in serious need of a gunsmith.

If wolf ammo was really this bad the internet would be flooded with people screaming about how "tactically unsound" such ammo is.

I have used wolf in 9mm, 7.62x39, and 7.62x54R (gold line). In a week or two I will use wolf 8mm gold line mauser.

In all my years of shooting wolf (about 9) I have had no more than about 5 jams in my AR, 4 jams in my 9mm, and 3 in my SKS. That's out of about 4000 rounds fired.

Certainly, this does mean that wolf is not quite what you'd most want in your gun when the drug crazed nazis come crashing through your windows. However, given a choice between 1000 rounds of wolf or 400 rounds of american at the same price, I'd go with the wolf. learn to tap and rack, keep more magazines loaded, and with the extra 600 roudns get a lot more practice in.

the simple truth is that ANY gun WILL jam, and ANY ammo will EVENTUALLY cause a jam. it's best to be prepared for that eventuality rather than be dumbfounded when your $.50 / shot x39 stovepipes.

incidentally, the worst problem i ever had with wolf was when a murray mod firing pin in my yugo 59/66 that had not been quite rounded properly pierced the primer in a wolf x39 HP. the resulting gases melted the murray pin's internal spring, and seized up my bolt assembly. because of the stout design of the commie sks, however, i felt nothing. the gases were completely halted by both the weight of the bolt and the reciever cover.

murray was very stand-up about it and fixed the FP free of charge. wolf offered to replace the remainder of the ammuntion, but since the fault seemed to lie more with the murray FP, I didn't bother. the ammo has since fed 100% reliably and nice through the same sks.

anyhow, one more real good reason to wear protective glasses.

[Samuel_Hoggson]

Hmmmm. Video quality sucks, but I was unable to either see or hear a single misfired round actually hit the ground. Even if you're inclined to take the filmaker, whose potential economic conflicts of interest are unknown, at his word a coupla points should be made.

If his gun was intermittently short stroking he has an insufficient gas problem and has no business bashing the ammo maker. It is no secret that Wolf is relatively underpowered. If his gun doesn't like it, too bad, so sad. Stop whining and use something else. Or consider addressing the gun.

Second, at no time did the shooter pause to ascertain that each ejected "misfire" had it's head still attached. In fact the shooter never even looked in the direction of extraction. In the event that just one of those "misfires" had been a squib his buddy might have filmed a KB. FWIW, when I have a stoppage I am very, very careful and deliberate with respect to assessing what comes out of the ejection port. If I am not 100% certain that I extracted a complete cartridge the bore gets checked. No exceptions......ever. Period. Under no circumstances would I rapidly rack the action while talking (ie., while distracted) and hit the trigger - as seen multiple times on this video.

I've just finished my 10th case of Wolf poly. Almost all went FA through my 16s. I had exactly zero ammo failures of any kind. I had exactly zero failures to cycle. I had exactly zero broken parts.

Sam

[ndh87]

i shoot mainly wolf, out of my glock 17, my mini 14 and sks. between the three i;ve shot more rounds than i can count and have never had a failure to fire

[Javelin Man]

I hate to be the dissenting vote here, but I bought some Wolf ammunition and ran it through my SKS. About half the rounds failed to fire. I haven't tried them in my AK or Saiga yet.

I haven't had any trouble with any other ammunition in my SKs's or any other rifle. They were not light strikes, either. Severely dented primer.

[Rem700SD]

From personal experience, beware of using wolf in a hot(heated) weapon. The lacquer on the cases causes them to stick in the chamber, causing failure to eject, with the action "locked shut". This happened a couple times at Thunder Ranch in October of '03. We were running through a lot of raound and my Glock was heating up.

[MechAg94]

I have used wolf in my SkS, my Vepr, and my Armalite. Never had a problem. It might be underpowered, but the stuff is reliable for me. Not saying you couldn't have a bad batch, but I haven't.

This "test" doesn't demonstrate anything except he is having an unknown problem with certain types of ammo in his rifle. It could be his mag, his rifle, or some combination with that ammo. I'll discount bad batch to give him some credit. He also did not try the same ammo types in any other rifles. If Wolf sucked so much, it would suck in any rifle.

I don't think most current production Wolf uses laquer anymore. At least the stuff I bought. The steel cases do build up powder residue in the chamber though. Shoot some brass after the wolf. The brass will come out dirty. The Box'O Truth guys did a demonstration looking at this.

[jerkface11]

I call BS on those saying wolf centerfire ammo isn't accurate. The smallest group i've ever seen shot was with wolf 7.62x39 154gr sp. .33" 3 shot group at 100 yards. And if your SKS or AK won't shoot wolf ammo something is wrong with it.

[Wes Janson]

I concur: the steel cased gets the chambers dirty much faster than brass casings will.

And I'm willing to bet good money that the problem in the video was the result of a weak spring in the rifle.

[Kymasabe]

I've never had a problems with Wolf except my Kel-Tec P3AT didn't like it. Otherwise my 9mm is fine with it, their .22LR match target ammo is one of the best, I have an unissued Mosin I refuse to fire corrosive surplus ammo thru so have been using Wolf and Wolf Gold with very good accuracy and my AK just LOVES the Military Classic. Bu, I'm not too picky with AK, I just bought two cases of Brown Bear so we'll see how that works vs the Wolf.

PS...I've never had a single failure to fire with Wolf in any caliber I was shooting.

[Gewehr98]

And how many times was that group repeated afterwards? :scrutiny:

As a range officer for 11+ years, I've seen Wolf and other lacquered steel-cased ammo choke up many guns. Some would say the tolerances on those guns are too tight for the ammo. Others would say that the ammo was too dirty for the gun's tolerances, because good quality ammo functioned just fine. You get your money's worth, regardless.

[jerkface11]

So I'm guessing that 0.33" 3-shot group was fired through an AK or SKS, right?
And how many times was that group repeated afterwards?


No it was a CZ 527 and yes the gun is accurate with pretty much any ammo. Except american factory loads. Remington factory ammo shoots a 6-7" group. Saying wolf doesn't know how to make 7.62x39 is like saying lake city doesn't know how to make .308.

[Metapotent]

I call BS on those saying wolf centerfire ammo isn't accurate. The smallest group i've ever seen shot was with wolf 7.62x39 154gr sp. .33" 3 shot group at 100 yards. And if your SKS or AK won't shoot wolf ammo something is wrong with it.

My friend is a Soviet Weapons buff and he owns about 4 AK's, 3 SKS, and a new Russian Bolt action rifle that is chambered in 7.62x39.

We go to the range just about every weekend and I've never seen him get a group better than 3 or 4 inches at 100yds when using Wolf, not even when he used his scoped bolt action rifle that has attained 1 inch groups consistently with American eagle ammo.

Also, in my AR when I use handloads or American factory loads I regularly get 1 inch or slightly larger groups except when I use milsurp 5.56 ammo. But when I used wolf .223 I usually got about a 5 inch group, and the same was true in all my rifles chambered in .223.

I refute the claims of people that say the 7.62 wolf ammo is unreliable to any significant degree, but it is certainly ridiculous to claim that Wolf is highly accurate.

[MechAg94]

Don't most US ammo makers use the .308" bullet for 7.62X39? I think the foreign is normally .310" or .311". I could be wrong on the exact dimensions.

[R.W.Dale]

Don't most US ammo makers use the .308" bullet for 7.62X39?

No they use the proper diameter bullets, They just make crappy 7.62x39:fire:

The diffrence in accuracy between .308 and .311 bullets can be less than you'ed think

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/Hpim0697.jpg

[enoch]

I've shot wolf ammo out of many different handguns and have not noticed any problems whatsoever. They don't make my guns dirtier or are less accurate than anything else store bought. There is one more thing I've been doing with wolfs that most folks don't, I reload them all the time. I have made a friend at my range who has wolfs that have been reloaded over 20 times without any failure at all. The claim that they are unreloadable is bunk.
I do use carbide dies on them and I find they hold up better than nickle cases. Once you clean the cases in a good medium ( I like Lyman's ) the lacquer is knocked off and you end up with a polished steel case that is of very good quality. Not as good as brass, but pretty darn good.

[Metapotent]

The diffrence in accuracy between .308 and .311 bullets can be less than you'ed think

Yes, 3/1000ths of an inch is very negligible. Especially when shooting with an SKS or AK that have such loose tolerances. Because even if the bore is relatively wider than the projectile, the projectile with expand to fill the grooves of the spiral. Conversly, a projectile that is wider than the lands of the spiral will compress once it enters the barrel from the throat.

[Gewehr98]

Namely, which rifle of yours fired those groups, whose ammo it was, and why the fps is lower than the 2400fps of a traditional 123gr M-43 round. ;)

In the last 15+ years, I've found domestic 7.62x39 to be superior to milsurp, both in quality and accuracy. It was the driving factor in me keeping brass, buying more, and making my own to keep my hungry AK and SKS rifles fed.

[The Grand Inquisitor]

Lacquer deposits ...blah blah blah

Wolf has been making all of their ammo with a polymer coat instead of laquer for a few years now, so I guess this problem has long been solved.


Also, as someone mentioned above, we don't know the motivations of this person. While it may sound odd, this wouldn't be the first time that a crafty businessman decided to do a little bit of commercial sabotage by putting out a bogus rumor that the competition was faulty in some way.

I'm not exactly saying that is what this is, but the fact that there are active shooters here who have put 25,000+ rounds of Wolf in multiple calibers through their firearms and have had about as many misfires as the average shooter has fingers (9).

Also, for some reason this guy decided to keep the camera on the non-business side of the firearm.

Curious.

[Dr.Rob]

Laquered cases are the dearth of many an AR... they shouldn't be a problem in a ak or sks with a chromed chamber and bore.

While Wollf has indeed switched to a polymer coating there are still stockpiles of the older ammo laying around.

[rangerruck]

wolf is fine, with a few interpostitions. do not heat up a bolt action fast with the stuff. Do not use it in tight tolerance, or match chambers. do not use it in ar's like m16's. The lacquer heats up and melts , and gets in your bolt and carrier, usually that will cause fail to ejects, if it doesn't break your extractor all together.
ok, now i've watched the vid, no way! I've never seen wolf like that. I've never had one ftf with wolf. he must of got a bad batch.

[R.W.Dale]

Namely, which rifle of yours fired those groups, whose ammo it was, and why the fps is lower than the 2400fps of a traditional 123gr M-43 round.

In the last 15+ years, I've found domestic 7.62x39 to be superior to milsurp, both in quality and accuracy. It was the driving factor in me keeping brass, buying more, and making my own to keep my hungry AK and SKS rifles fed.

The rifle is a CZ527 carbine in 7.62x39 the ammunition is a my own starting load using sierra's 150grn sP bullets in .308 and .311 dia More details can be found in the link below.
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=134857&goto=nextnewest

I also get fantastic accuracy and velocity with Nosler 125grn ballistic tips loaded to 2550 FPS

Through my adventure with my little bolt gun I've found domestic 7.62x39 to be abyssmally inaccurate, But hey where else are you gonna get the good remington brass with the small rifle primer pockets

[Bottom Gun]

Do not use it in tight tolerance, or match chambers. do not use it in ar's like m16's. The lacquer heats up and melts , and gets in your bolt and carrier, usually that will cause fail to ejects, if it doesn't break your extractor all together.

Rubbish. I have run thousands of rounds through one of my AR15's. It doesn't hurt it one bit.

I have put a torch on a lacquered case trying to melt the lacquer. It will not melt under a torch so i doubt that anyone gets their chambers hot enough to melt it.

Does anyone honestly believe Wolf could stay in business if their ammo harmed firearms?
Do you think outfitters like Cabelas would continue to sell Wolf if it was as bad as some people claim?

[petej]

been using Wolf MC and regular black box all spring and summer with ZERO failures.

[clange]

The wolf ammo in question comes from two totally different plants. So either that person has a problem with his rifle, or both the uly and tula plants get their primers from the same place, make bad ammo, and sell it to wolf to be imported.

Both are possible I guess, but if they had such large batches of bad ammo, spanning multiple plants and lines of distribution, why havent we heard more about it?

[Don't Tread On Me]

Never had any FTF with Wolf.


Wolf primers are HARD. Harder than primers used in hunting ammunition.


It looks to me like this guys firing pin or hammer doesn't strike hard enough for Wolf. Either that, or the particular lot he's using is aweful. I doubt that, as he tried and had similar issue with the military classic.

[possum]

Take in to consideration that you didn't see him load the mags, he could have just as well loaded empty shells oin the mag to cause faliures. maybe maybe not, but i have never had issues like that out of my chinesse ak or chinesse sks. I have used wolf polymer and the green stuff, 122gr fmj, and jhp, as well as 154gr sp's.
i use .223 wolf in my ar as well.
maybe he needs to break down that rifle and give it a good cleaning?:what:

[Don't Tread On Me]

I noticed a break in the video before the 2nd mag was loaded. Wouldn't make a difference. A few snap caps loaded in there would be enough.


Think it was intentional? From the outset, he knew and claimed that Wolf didn't work well. Either he knew he had two bad batches, or this is set up.


Or maybe he genuinely doesn't realize that he is getting light primer strikes?

[rangerruck]

maybe not bottom gun but as small flecks get shaved off in your throat/chamber and then repeatedly gets flashpoint heated up by the burning propellant plug exiting your cartridge, without the help of it being on the case to help dispurse the heat, it could happen , and did, to a fellow shooting friend of mine, in his ar. He stripped down his bolt assy. and let it soak, to get the sticky gummy "crud" off of the parts.

[Harold Mayo]

Never had a failure with any of the Wolf I've ever shot. Shot .45 ACP, 9mm and .223 from Wolf by the thousands and no failures.

As for build-up in AR's? Since I clean every thousand rounds or so completely, I don't ever see a problem. No unusual build-up during those intervals that I've seen.

Accuracy? How's .223 through a Bushmaster Varminter at 100 yards in groups the size of the nail of my pinky finger sound? Maybe that's inaccurate for some but it's accurate to me.

[BoySetsTheFire]

The test was not scientific. Wolf was designed for rifles like the SKS and the AK. These rifles differ from domestic firearms. The SKS and AK have a lot of punch behind the firing pin. The Wolf ammo is designed for a rifle with a lot of punch behind the firing pin. Their primer caps require a greater force to ignite. American rifles will not always indent the Wolf primer sufficient to ignite.

While this video discusses the ammo and when purchased, it does not qualify the rifles. If these rifles have been worked on, or tricked out in any manner, they may not resemble the rifles that Wolf was made for. Obviously, these guns don't have the snot to sufficiently indent the primer.

I have fired thousands of rounds in my Norinco SKS without a single failure. I feel confident in saying that the rifles were failing in that video and not the Wolf.