What to look for in AR-15?


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noresttill
September 6, 2006, 09:05 PM
I plan on eventually adding a AR build to the mix, But the only thing that I know I want is a flat top with removable handle because I would eventualy like to add optics.

I would like to know what is a necessity on an AR, and what is able to be added on later. I.E. I heard that a chrome bbl, bolt, and carrier are a must.

Im trying to do this on a budget and want to decide on what I want before I buy, then re-buy parts. Reliability is foremost, but I want it to be accurate too. Asthetics are last...dead last.

I understand that a calibre conversion is only in the upper, so I wouldn't mind spending a little more on some lower parts, but for now I just want a reliable, accurate, .223 firearm.

I was planning on staying with the big names but if there is another company that is comprable in quality and price, Im all ears.

Thanks, I probably left some stuff out, though

Jesse

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rra_casper
September 6, 2006, 09:45 PM
Rock River.

I went through RB Precision to build my AR-15, and it was great. They have a good relationship with RRA and they can get you anything you want, quickly and at a reasonable price. Hurrah for flat-tops with detachable carry handles. Now I just need to save up for an EOTech...

RRA is in the camp that says chroming the barrel is unnecessary, because the slight extension of the life of the barrel is negated by the loss of accuracy. However, they will do it, for around $30-$40 extra. To save money, I opted against chroming of any of the parts, although RB Precision also has a wide selection of replacement internal parts (standard, chromed, TiN, you name it), at pretty much the lowest prices you can find anywhere. First on my list of upgrades is a TiN-coated firing pin.

RB Precision's niche in the market seems to be helping people build dream rifles. They are willing to work with the manufacturers in order to get you the configuration that you want. Plus they are nice people to deal with, and, as I said before, quite inexpensive.

And I absolutely love my RRA Elite CAR A4 upper on top of a standard RRA lower with an ACE skeleton stock. Great rifle, perfect reliability, eats Wolf all day.

That's my two cents on the subject. I wouldn't hesitate to do business with either RB Precision or RRA again in the future.

nipprdog
September 6, 2006, 09:48 PM
RRA or Bushmaster. ;)

f4t9r
September 6, 2006, 09:57 PM
built a RRA and just took my time and did it one gun show at a time (some online ordering) just kept asking questions and love that thing once it was done. About 650 got me going and have added on from that point. AR 15.com is a good place to search for questions. Good luck and happy building

10-Ring
September 6, 2006, 09:57 PM
I have just completed my RRA middy...completed it w/ the EOTech 512. RRA makes a quality unit & it's ALOT of fun to shoot

Bartholomew Roberts
September 6, 2006, 10:02 PM
First on my list of upgrades is a TiN-coated firing pin.

I'd be skeptical whether or not that is actually an upgrade. I can think of areas much more critical to reliability that I might put higher on my own list. Is there some reason that particular modification interested you?

Dienekes
September 6, 2006, 10:05 PM
This may not be a direct answer to the question, but I recently went retro and replaced the Colt CAR-15 I sold off in the early 90s. I opted for the Bushmaster M4gery with A1 rear sight and original style fixed carry handle. (I like being able to carry and handle the piece with the full sized opening, plus I believe in the KISS principle.) I figured that if pressed I could always get a flat-top upper if and when I needed to.

After a fair amount of homework I mounted a Trijicon compact ACOG 1.5 x 24 right on the handle. The line of sight is only marginally higher than the irons and not even noticeable. High speed, low drag, 12 on a scale of 10. So I got to have my cake and eat it too.

The only other thing the carbine needed, and that all of the stock guns seem to need, is a good drop-in trigger kit for a decent pull. It's now a darned nice little piece that I'm growing quite fond of.

So in my case the flat-top was a solution to a nonexistent problem. Your mileage may vary.

rra_casper
September 7, 2006, 04:29 AM
I have heard that titanium nitride-coated firing pins have less of a tendency to break, are more corrosion-resistant and easier to clean, and are basically "the last firing pin you'll ever need." After 1200 rounds, I have had nary a problem with any of the stock RRA parts, but for $10-20 I am willing to make an easy change that might help ensure better reliability in the future.

Is the likelihood of a broken firing pin overblown? I'm still learning who I can and can't trust in the world of boomsticks.

mc223
September 7, 2006, 05:41 AM
The Titanium firing pins are said to improve lock time. However in the likely event that you will pierce a primer at some point in time, the Titaniums will erode very quickly which only propogates the erosion and further peircing.
IMHO stick with the steel firing pins.
In over 14000 rounds no broken pin. Just lucky I guess.

Lebben-B
September 7, 2006, 06:04 AM
The standard bolt/bolt carrier have always worked well for me. Broken firing pins, bolt lugs, gas keys, etc are such a rarity that when it does happen, it gets a serious "***!!!" from all concerned. And I'm talking about rack grade weapons that get bounced around inside vehicles, thrown out of helicopters and aircraft (while attached to a trooper, of course), spend weeks and months exposed to all kinds of weather and then go on to fire a couple of hundred rounds in the course of a fire fight.

As far as chrome lining the barrel, I'm of the school of thought that says the loss of accuracy in a chrome-lined barrel is so small that only a few shooters would notice it. The vast majority of shooters can't shoot to the platform's potential so why not spend a little extra for easier maintenance and longer barrel life, two things that ALL shooters regardless of ability are concerned with.

Mike

Bartholomew Roberts
September 7, 2006, 10:53 AM
Is the likelihood of a broken firing pin overblown? I'm still learning who I can and can't trust in the world of boomsticks.

Actually the only broken firing pin I've ever seen (and even then only on the Internet) was a titanium firing pin that had the tip split where it was piercing primers. Overall, I would say it is an extreme rarity.

If you want a quick cheap reliability enhancement, make sure you have good mags, good ammo and upgrade the extractor insert, ejector spring and extractor spring on your bolt (although as a midlength owner you don't really need to). Those are areas that are a lot more commonly involved in reliability issues.

Davo
September 7, 2006, 03:14 PM
Would chrome parts (bolts, etc) be more resistant to rust, and wear as compared to standard parts?

Blackfork
September 7, 2006, 03:32 PM
I've never seen a "broken" AR or M16 firing pin. I shoot hot match loads, 69s, 77s and 80s. 5000 rounds a year. I shoot with lots of other shooters who burn about the same amount of ammo. I have seen eroded TIPS on firing pins that I replaced. Eroded from piercing a primer. Firing pins are 8-15 bucks and your housebroken dog is smart enough to figure out how to swap them out for you. You just need one opposable thumb.

I'd go Rock River off the shelf, but I would think about a NM gun.

One of the wear points that folks DON'T pay attention to is the erosion around the firing pin hole on the bolt face. Once you pierce a few primers and start eating off the tip of your firing pin, it's likely that you are eroding that area also. The firing pin then protrudes more...erodes more, pierces more...and you get a snowball effect.

Forget titanium. Stock trigger lock times will be improved so slightly that its not worth it. Or do it. Doesn't matter.

I'm Distinguished, High Master, all with service rifle. I have shot on the state teams for years. Won a few NRA regionals. I keep two ARs going at all times and am up to date on the round count, firing pin condition, et, et. I've taught shooting to US Army folks on their ranges and helped sort out their M16s, M24s and (lately) M14s going to Iraq.

I would find the closest Highpower Match and go see what folks are doing before buying a rifle. You'll be shocked to see folks shooting 600 yard targets with an AR and open sights. There is a Highpower Match within 150 miles of you that shoots at least six times a year, probably monthly. It will be a bunch of great guys.

Buy a rifle you can actually SHOOT in a competition and go learn to SHOOT. Most of the rest of this stuff is just....details and conversation.

Davo
September 7, 2006, 03:50 PM
How are those m14's shooting? What is considered an acceptable group with a stock m14? Do these rifles use match ammo? Reason I ask is because there is very little solid info on these rifles on the net, mostly its rumor.

noresttill
September 9, 2006, 01:15 AM
Thanks for all the great replies.

I belive Ive decided to go through Del-Ton http://www.del-ton.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=80 with a 16" flat top.

The only thing I thing I add is the Ch BBl, for ease of cleaning. Is there anything there that you all see that might be too good to pass up? I was thinking of the RRA 2 stage trigger.

can you mount irons on a flat top with out the handle? I found that AimSurplus has stag uppers with an ARMS #40 flip up rear sight http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Stag_Arms_2H_Complete_.223_Upper_for_AR_type_Rifle.html. Delton has those for at least $100, so maybe Aim is the way to go?

This is by far the most thinking Ive ever put into a gun purchase...and I like it knowing Ill get what I want!

Thanks again,

Jesse

taliv
September 9, 2006, 01:23 AM
ar15.com has a nice thread with pictures and commentary of all the different BUIS options. i think it's still a sticky thread. i went YHM cause it was cheap and simple without all the springs and crap.

Lebben-B
September 9, 2006, 08:04 AM
You made a good choice in going with Del-Ton. They're great folks to deal with. By the way, if you don't see something you want on their web site, give'em a call. They probably have it or know where you can get it.

If you're going to mount optics or even think you might want to mount optics in the future, go with a flat top upper and BUIS. I've got the YHM flip up BUIS on one of my ARs and it works well. But in my opinion Troy Industries BUIS are the best going right now. They're really well made; a little more expensive, but worth it.

Let me echo what BR said about mags and ammo. If you use good ammo and good mags, you should have few problems.

Mike

TexasRifleman
September 9, 2006, 08:15 AM
But in my opinion Troy Industries BUIS are the best going right now.

A second on the Troy, can't go wrong with their BUIS.

gaweidert
September 9, 2006, 10:11 AM
The TiN coated fiting pin is not a titanium firing pin. I have a complete TiN coated bolt carrier group and bolt. The gold color looks kind of cool when I install it in one of my EBR's (Evil Black Rifles).

I have an Olympic K3B. It has the flat top and a 16" barrel. The opening in the screw on handles isreally too small to allo it'w uses as a carry handle. It also has a regular stock on it as adjustable stocks are so dangerous that the government of New York state has take proactive steps to protect us from them. But that's a subject for another forum. I currently have an Eotech 552 with A.R.M.S. BUIS installed. Pretty decent setup once you get used to the EOTECH. It took a few trips to the range to trust the EOTECH as is was such a different shooting experience for me.

My other two AR's have 20" barrels and the carrying handle on the. I like the simplicity of them too. To me just about any AR is a carbine as compared to the milsurps I own they are all pretty small firearms.

Get one with the 5.56 chamber so you can shoot milsurp ammo in them. There is a slight differenct on the neck area between .223 and 5.56. You can shoot .223 ammo in a 5.56 chamber, but is doesn't always work the other way around. Many varment and target rifles based on the AR platform use rifles with the .223 chamber in them. There is a lot of "discussion" on this issue, but that's the word form the manufacturers.

One thing I learned from my sons (USAF and UA Army) is to rest you nose on the charging handle shen using the iron sights. Kind of wierd for me as I usually shoot 8mm, 30-06 and 7.62 x 54r in my milsurps and resting your nose on the back of the bolt would not be a pleasant experience. :cuss: It helps insure you a consistant cheek weld for sighting. The recoils is so low that it doesn't hurt. A lot of the less expensive collapsible stocks are not that much fun to use a cheek rests.

Sherwin
September 10, 2006, 01:20 AM
Do you guys know if assault rifles are legal in NV

g56
September 10, 2006, 01:36 AM
I just got a 16" carbine kit from Del Ton, good people to deal with, shipped fast, and a great quality product. I picked up a Stag Arms stripped lower receiver to finish off the build, another great product!

Stag Arms is Continental Machine & Tool's own brand, CMT also machines Rock River's lower receivers, they are real pros in the AR business.

Geno
September 10, 2006, 01:52 AM
I am still a Bushmaster fan, but I have some pause. I have been reading A LOT of people's threads stating that there is a tendency for the barrels to be over-torqued. I have only owned 3 Bushmasters, no Colts yet, and I have had excellent experience with BM. I have an A3 pre-ban, and A3 post ban and the Caron 15 Model 21 Bushmaster pistol. If I were to purchase a new A4, I likely would get carbon fiber:

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/az-c1516m4ft.asp

This model comes with a nice 30-round magazine. A must for me for defensive rifles/carbines.

The other AR worth noting is the JP Precision. All the same, keep your AR simple. Add a forward grip (vertical) and an ACOG scope...that's it.

Doc2005

BusMaster007
September 10, 2006, 02:34 AM
This is the one I recommend:

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/pcwa3s20.asp

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/Images/pcwa3s20.jpg

Adding the 'Tactical' upper can come later.
This is a good choice for getting started with an AR15.
Don't let the price scare you. You will spend a LOT building one, and who's going to guarantee the rifle then...?
You get what you pay for.
Get the Bushmaster.
:D

possum
September 10, 2006, 03:11 AM
Bushmaster is my vote. I have owned a total of two, still own one, which ain't many but have shot about a dozen and never have had any problems at all with them. All the internal parts were stock without upgrade. the only upgrades were sight systems, rails, and such.

If i was gonna buy a bushmaster now i would go with the modular carbine. It comes in the box with alot of the features that people like to have on there ar's already. buis, flip up front sight. flat-top, rail system, rail covers, ergo type grip, 16" fluted barrel which might be free- floated i can't quite remeber, and collapsiable buttstock. I think that is one of the best values out there on the ar market.
of course bushmaster list it at a higher price, but can be had around here for $1200, and probally even better if you do some shopping.
http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/pcwvml16f.asp

TexasRifleman
September 10, 2006, 10:08 AM
Do you guys know if assault rifles are legal in NV

I don't think there are problems in NV. I know NFA weapons are legal there.

Baba Louie
September 10, 2006, 11:03 AM
Do you guys know if assault rifles are legal in NVBy "Assault Rifle", if you mean an evil black rifle that fires semi-auto only, that has detachable magazine, flash suppressor and bayonet lug, maybe a pistol grip or folding/trombone stock... YES.
If you mean something that has all of the above, has a switch that lets it go buurrrrp with each pull of the trigger... if you have the proper federal tax stamp... YES.

Chris Rhines
September 10, 2006, 11:14 AM
AR-15s are a bit like 1911s, in that the only way to absolutely guarantee that you get a good one is to have one built up by someone who knows what they're about.

Failing that, an AR-15 from a good manufacturer will run perfectly 99% of the time. I'd avoid Bushmaster and Colt for the most part - I've seen too many QC horror-shows with them. CMMG Inc., LMT/Lauer, Stag Arms seems pretty good, Sabre Defense, and RRA are all good shops. Not saying you can't get a lemon from one of them, but the chances are pretty freaking low.

As to specific features you should look for, here's a short list:

- Forged upper and lower receivers with low shelf and M4-style extended feed ramps.
- Parkerizing on the barrel under the front sight base.
- Correct spec M1913 rail on the flattop.*
- F-marked front sight base.*
- Properly staked bolts on the bolt carrier gas key.
- High-quality chrome-silicon springs in the extractor, ejector, and action.
- High-quality magazines. Meaning in-spec USGI or CProducts stainless steel bodies, Magpul followers, and chrome-silicon mag springs. Another similarity between ARs and 1911s - good magazines make a lot of difference in reliability.

* - depending on your configuration.

If all the parts are in-spec and assembled properly, you're most of the way there.

- Chris

noresttill
September 10, 2006, 01:41 PM
As I said before, I plan on building this one, so buying a bushy for $400 more isnt an option.

This one will be the workhorse, maybe another in the future for comp, but this one's main goal is to be consistent and dont brek/jam.

The stag receivers do look very good, and I plan on getting one at the next show.

A couple of Del ton questions:
1. What is the different between a wilson bbl and a DPSM one?
2. Another option is to have a regular Flat top, one with T-marks (no charge), or one with an M4 feed ramp ($25)
3. Is the RRA worth an additional $80 for someone who never owned an AR, or is it gravy for the seasoned shooter.
4. Are DT kits .223 or 5.56?
5. Is a Chrome Bolt/carrier worth an extra $55? What does it do?

Thanks Again,

Jesse

Blackfork
September 10, 2006, 02:10 PM
The M14s we worked on and taught ranged from NM to service grade issued rifles in fiberglass stocks. Most were functional as delivered. I think we had only ONE that really wouldn't shoot, extract, zero.
Most were 3 MOA guns. The standard USGI Silhouette is 19 inches wide. 3 MOA at 500 yards is 3X5=15 inches, so that was inside the target black.
We cleaned the gas systems, and often re-peened the barrel splines and re-seated the gas system for tightness. That helps a lot. It's a great rifle, less cantankerous than the Garand.
The Army had no tools. The soldiers training was inadequate, IMHO. Many of them didn't know the barrels had rifling in them, or what it did. They had never pulled a target, looked at bullets dug out of the berm, seen a cartridge pulled apart to examine slug, powder..that sort of stuff. Lots of BS floating around. Lot's of folks get in the army having NEVER fired a firearm these days.
M14s don't scope well and some of the mounting systems are trash. Once scoped, they need a LOT of stock build-up under the cheekweld to see through the scope. We taught how to make cheekpieces with green army duct tape and closed cell foam from the ammo boxes.
We never heard any instance of rifles quitting or breaking in theatre. We saw a lot of photos of our troops with rifles in action. If you look for guys holding scoped M14s with field expedient cheekpieces, those are troops that went through the SDM program one place or another.
Lots of the troops bought additional gear, slings, new stocks, tools after getting sorted out in the school. We had them take off bipods, especially anything clamped to the gas tube. M14s will NOT shoot accurately with anything touching the gas tube, period. That's NOT IMHO, it's fact. A 3MOA M14 will turn into a 20 MOA rifle if you clamp on a bipod. Bipods must be mounted to the stock and the inside nut countersunk so that it doesn't touch the gas tube.
We were issued M118LR, a 175 Sierra Match bullet ammo and the M852 168 Sierra Match bullet ammo. It was new manufacture. I don't know what they get in Iraq but we were assuming the same. They knew they could shoot de-linked 7.62 machine gun ammo, but it wouldn't be the same.
When they left us they were about the level of a NRA Sharpshooter classification.

Blackfork
September 10, 2006, 02:15 PM
I'd sure get a two-stage trigger no matter what the cost. Normal AR triggers are pretty bad. Rock River makes a nice two-stage for about 100. I'd avoid the Bushmaster two-stage. The Jewel is the best.

Sherwin
September 10, 2006, 02:17 PM
Um i meant like ar-15, ak- 47 and stuff. but semi only

BIGDADDYLONGSTROKE
September 10, 2006, 02:20 PM
I have a Bushmaster and the barrel was over torqed bought it about 8 months ago brand new, cost me $168 to get the it fixed at my local gunsmiths just because I was dumb enough not to send back to the manufacturer, other that that problem its been a decent rifle. No jams or failures.

Chris Rhines
September 10, 2006, 09:06 PM
1. What is the different between a wilson bbl and a DPSM one? That would be DPMS, right? Different manufacturers. Wilson makes stainless-steel semi-match barrels for many different end users - quality is generally pretty good. DPMS makes (among other things) regular 4140 chrome-vanadium steel barrels. Also generally pretty good quality, although they don't park the barrels under the front sight base.

2. Another option is to have a regular Flat top, one with T-marks (no charge), or one with an M4 feed ramp ($25) The extended M4 feed ramps improve feed reliability, especially in short-barreled weapons. The T-marks are just numbered cross-slots on the flat top, and are quite useless.

3. Is the RRA worth an additional $80 for someone who never owned an AR, or is it gravy for the seasoned shooter. General rule of thumb - when buying a firearm, don't try to cheap out. Get the best rifle from the best manufacturer that you can possibly afford. You'll be better off in the end.

4. Are DT kits .223 or 5.56? No idea.

5. Is a Chrome Bolt/carrier worth an extra $55? What does it do? Chrome plating on the bolt carrier is supposed to make the bolt carrier more resistant to wear, and also easier to clean. In practice, the chrome plating negatively affects the tolerances in the bolt carrier group, and can seriously compromise the reliability of your rifle. Avoid them.

- Chris

JTW Jr.
September 10, 2006, 09:41 PM
I havent heard of any firearm you CANT own in NV. You can have class 3 , AOW , SBR , anything .... one of my main reasons for living here :)

noresttill
September 10, 2006, 10:04 PM
Chris thanks a lot, that answers just about all my questions, ill call DT tomorrow to find out the other.

Jesse

jetman
September 10, 2006, 11:54 PM
"Reliability is foremost, but I want it to be accurate too." to quote your original post

COLT Like most things in life "You get what you pay for" spend the few extra $$$ for a quality rifle, and you won't be sorry .... or be worrying about broken parts. Don't get me wrong, Colts do break too on occasion, but not often. I've owned 5 Colts and have never had the very first issue with ANY of them. Colt's usually hold their value longer too.

noresttill
September 11, 2006, 02:18 AM
I understand that COLT is a dependable brand, but I dont feel that the extra cost is worth it to me at this time.

This project is not about going cheap, its about getting what I want in my price range.

I also want to build one and I didnt find any colt kits online.

Jesse

GunnySkox
September 11, 2006, 03:00 AM
Del-Ton kit barrels are chambered for 5.56 NATO:

http://www.del-ton.com/detail.aspx?ID=1104

http://www.del-ton.com/detail.aspx?ID=1154

~GnSx

Rob96
September 11, 2006, 06:08 AM
That would be DPMS, right? Different manufacturers. Wilson makes stainless-steel semi-match barrels for many different end users - quality is generally pretty good. DPMS makes (among other things) regular 4140 chrome-vanadium steel barrels. Also generally pretty good quality, although they don't park the barrels under the front sight base.


DPMS gets their barrel blanks from Wilson, not to be confused with Wilson Combat. Aslo they are 4140 chrome moly barrels. Sabre Defence sells the vanadium barrels.

Rob96
September 11, 2006, 06:14 AM
Chrome plating on the bolt carrier is supposed to make the bolt carrier more resistant to wear, and also easier to clean. In practice, the chrome plating negatively affects the tolerances in the bolt carrier group, and can seriously compromise the reliability of your rifle. Avoid them.


Don't tell that to the Colt guys that are still running chromed carriers. M16 I carried '88 through '91 while an SP at Clark AB was a 'Nam era rifle and was still using a chromed carrier.

Bartholomew Roberts
September 11, 2006, 12:17 PM
I think the chrome-lined bolts and carriers depend on lot on who did the process. If it is done incorrectly, you can see things like hydrogen embrittlement. FWIW, both of the broken bolts I've seen firsthand were chromed.

I wouldn't have any problems buying a Young/LBC chromed bolt carrier group. I've never heard a bad thing about them. I might be a bit more reluctant to buy the cheapest chrome BCG I could get out of the Model 1 catalog though.

Davo
September 11, 2006, 05:02 PM
and went with del ton, what else would I need to complete my rifle? Ive got basic gunsmithing tools, and no experience with the AR series-I do own a few lowers.

Davo
September 11, 2006, 06:45 PM
Well I got my 9/11 freedom rifle ordered today...a del ton 20 flat top upper kit...chrome lined barrel, NM trigger. Apparently I just need a punch to get this thing assembled and up and running. Im so excited!!! To quote Little Jon "YEAH".

TexasRifleman
September 11, 2006, 07:09 PM
Well I got my 9/11 freedom rifle ordered today.

Very nice, congratulations!!!

bender
September 12, 2006, 12:09 AM
I hope nobody minds me adding my own inquiries onto an existing thread. I have been browsing around, finding out how to assemble ar-15 style rifles. Been to ar15.com and went thru the "build it yourself" thread. Looked a little more complicated than what I want to do (assembling stripped receivers & lowers...). I'd rather put complete uppers and lowers together.

Anyway, I've also been browsing Bushmaster.com and the RRA site. Bush has one complete rifle I like for an MSRP of $1010. RRA has some rifles in the $1000 range and a little lower.

My question is.... what is a good price people can get the $1000 bushies or RRA's for? I mean, say at a gun show, or from an FFL dealer who does not charge much over his cost...? Can you get a nice entry level ar15 in the $700 or $800 price range?

JTW Jr.
September 12, 2006, 12:12 AM
cant remember whos model it was Bushy or RRA or ? but the "Plinker" model was just under $600 at the last Gun Show here in Vegas.

bender
September 12, 2006, 12:18 AM
hey, I can almost afford that...!

Its my understanding that even if you get a less expensive "starter" model... you can make it nicer over time...as you can afford it...
For example, optics or whatever...

are uppers & lowers interchangeable? I mean if you get a less expensive model, then later want to put a diff upper or lower on it?

sorry, I'm a real noob on ar stuff.

stiletto raggio
September 12, 2006, 01:51 AM
Live rounds.

I had to.

Bartholomew Roberts
September 12, 2006, 11:38 AM
are uppers & lowers interchangeable? I mean if you get a less expensive model, then later want to put a diff upper or lower on it?

As a general rule, yes. Any upper you buy should go on to any lower you buy, even if they are from different manufacturers. In rare instances, it may not actually work out that way; but 99.9% of them will have no problems.

bender
September 12, 2006, 02:02 PM
been browsing the RRA catalog again, and I have a question.

some of their rifles say ".223/5.56 NATO" for caliber. I've read not to interchange .223 rem and 5.56 NATO in the same rifle... something about slight chambering diffs...???

Also, some of their rifles are called ".223 Wylde" - *** is that???

I just want a .223 rem. rifle like everybody else makes. I already have the reloading dies, from back when I owned a mini-14.

GunnySkox
September 12, 2006, 02:07 PM
5.56mm has a longer throat than .223; so you can shoot .223 in a 5.56 NATO chamber, but you shouldn't do the other way 'round, as the longer throated 5.56 in the shorter .223 chamber could cause excessive pressure. A .223 Wylde chamber is cut about halfway between the specs for a .223 chamber and a 5.56 NATO chamber, so that 5.56 can be fired safely, and .223 can still be accurate to its potential.

Cheers,
~GnSx

bender
September 12, 2006, 02:11 PM
ok, I get what you're saying. but then it seems that the 'wylde' chamber would still be a "little" bit too short for a 5.56 nato, or is the amount so small that it doesn't hurt anything...?

since I'm gonna shoot .223 rem, you are saying that either the .223/5.56 or the wylde for be fine for me...

Impala
September 12, 2006, 02:56 PM
I've never been much of a fan of ARs or .223 in general, but I did have a project idea a while back which involved a DPMS super bull upper
(flat top with 24" heavy barrel) I wanted to. put this upper onto a DPMS lower
and one of the target stocks seen at the top of this pagehttp://www.deltaforce.com/catalog/ar15tacticalaccessories.html
I was basically going for a target rifle with a PSG look which would be completed by the addition of a PSG target grip and a triangular handguard, at the time I wanted to put either an IOR 6x super M2 or a weaver version Kalinka POSP as a cheaper alternative.

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