[firestar]

If you only had enough money for one of the above (only one of the above, I know there are other guns for the same price), what would you chose for self.home defense? Lets, assume this is your only gun. Also the Hi-Point can be in any caliber you chose.

[firestar]

I was going to make this a poll but I forgot to. Oh well.

[hksw]

Personally, I would go for the HiP for the major reason that there are considerably more ammo choices for the types of shooting (including HD) you intend to use the gun for.

Not knocking the CZ. I plan on eventually getting one as they are quite cheap and I do like shooting hot ammo. Ammo choice, though, is pretty limited.

[denfoote]

CZ-52!!!

At least with me, the CZ probably will not find it's way into a 4' hole somewhere out in the desert!! :neener:

[George Hill]

CZ-52
Hands Down.

Much easier to carry CCW. Much cooler.





























And no one will laugh at you at the range...

[Zundfolge]

For me the clear choice would be the CZ-52.

Heck, now that I have my C&R I should order one.

[cool45auto]

CZ.

[Gewehr98]

You can't melt it with a cigarette lighter. :D

[Tamara]

CZ-52, just so I could tinker with some of those aftermarket goodies cropping up for it... :)

[goon]

CZ-52. I have one that is on sort of a permannet loan to my dad. They have been proven in military service, and are a good gun. One could be made into a pretty respectable defense gun.
The only things I have against them is that the grip doesn't fit my hand right, and you can't find HP ammo for them.
If you don't have alot to spend, an Bulgarian makarov may be a better choice. HP ammo is readily available for the 9mm Mak.

[Tropical Z]

If this thread were "CZ-52 vs Any other handgun on the planet",people would still be laughing.An 85 grain FMJ going 1600 FPS is the IDEAL defense round!
P.S.I LOVE the two CZ-52's i already own and cant wait to get the sweet excellent one i ordered from Aim.Still somehow,i think .45acp,9x19 and .40S&W offer much better choices in ammo selection for defense purposes.

[goon]

An 85 grain FMJ going 1600 FPS is the IDEAL defense round!

Depends on what it does when it gets inside.
I think I will have to test one on something and see if it fragments.
You may just be right.

[Jason Demond]

I would take the CZ 52 over a Hi-Point any day.

[firestar]

He was being sarcastic about the 7.62x25 being a good defensive round. I think he is wrong.

After shooting several types of ammo through my CZ-52, I am impressed! It seems to hit more like a medium sized rifle cartridge than a pistol. I took it shooting with my AK (7.62x39) and my AR (.223) and my S&W 19 and my Hi Power 9mm and the effect it had on the various targets mirrored the rifles that I was shooting. When I hit a paint can with the pistols, there would be a hole in them and they may roll around a little but when I shot a paint can with the rifles or the CZ-52, they would sometimes fly 15-20 feet in the air! There is a HUGE difference in impact when you get to these higher velocities. I don't know what is better, higher velocity or bigger bullet but most people would rather have a rifle in a gun fight if they could.

It is not really about the cartridge so much as the gun. I was trying to find out if people would rather have a old military pistol in a obscure cal than a new Hi-Point in a "normal" cal.

[Gerald McDonald]

I think you missed the point of the other post, Non gun people may give completely different answers than you see here.
From your exhaustive research I would defintely say the Cz52 is the one to have if attacked by a hoard of paint cans.

By the way, I wonder if there are more new/used Hi points sold than CZ 52 surplus.

[Gewehr98]

It is not really about the cartridge so much as the gun. I was trying to find out if people would rather have a old military pistol in a obscure cal than a new Hi-Point in a "normal" cal.

you said the magic word, "Hi-Point". That alone says enough, just like Lorcin, Bryco, Raven, Jennings, and Davis.

Since I handload 7.62x25 for my CZ-52, using Hornady XTP bullets, I don't really fear for any attack of paint cans. Or 2-legged predators, for that matter. ;)

[Shaughn Leayme]

If you can find original Czech ball (version with out the tungsten penetrator) it cruises out of the Cz52 at an honest 1650 fps and I have know some who will pull that bullet and replace it with a HP and I really wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of such a load. I wouldn't feel undergunned or poorly armed if it was my only carry option.

There is also some loads using a Sabot and a 22 caliber 40 - 55 grain varmint bullet, that might have some interesting self defense applications.

The 7.62x25 TT or it's close cousin 7.63 Mauser, were both designed to pentrate thru a lot of material or equipment and accomplish this by a small cross section and high velocity and there were some hollow point bullets available at one time and I imagine that eventually we will see them available as loaded ammunition.

The Hi point, is not something I would even consider buying, so it would be the Cz52 all the way.

[Andrew Wyatt]

Oh, BOO HOO. someone makes a pistol that goes bang and feeds ball ammo that costs less than 200 dollars. it must therefore, be totally unuseable and unsafe, and the fact that it has a lifetime of the weapon, irrespective of who owns it now warranty also makes it horrible, unsafe and therefore uncool weapon to posess.
</sarcasm>


if the Hi-point was the standard weapon of the former soviet union, half of you would be swooning over them and saying they're the best thing since sliced bread.

in any case, the hi points go bang with relaibility and regularity, and if they don't, you can send them back, even if it's been in the family for 300 years.

insteading of saying "hi-points are crap!" why don;t you acknowledge the reasons why you don't have one and say "hi points aren't cool!"

that's the reason 95% of you don't like them. they're the pistol equivalent of the sten or the grease gun.


that being said, I think i'd take the CZ-52. i can get a 9mm barrel for it, it's thin, and with a new firing pin, can have a very good trigger.

the sights are worse than those on a hi-point, and the safety is an OK position.

I'd see about loading up some of those .223 timbs rounds with a 55 grain trophy bonded bear claw, or even one of those long 100 grain projectiles.

[Gewehr98]

:rolleyes:

[Andrew Wyatt]

I fail to see how an accident of geography has any bearing on this discussion.

[444]

I wouldn't carry either one of them for self defense, but for the sake of the question, it would definitely be the High Point.
The CZ52 was the standard sidearm many years ago of an also ran country. The CZ52 has a firing pin that is rumored to break if you dry fire it. To me, that says something about the workmanship and design. On one of mine, I replaced the strock firing pin with the upgraded model from Makarov.com. Now, the firing pin doesn't break when you dry fire, instead the keeper bounces when you fire it and occasionally will shoot out the back and hit you in the chin as you are shooting. Yes, this mod was installed by a gunsmith per the instructions that came with it. The sights on the CZ52 are marginal, although adequate. IMO, the caliber would be a poor defensive caliber. There are no mainstream defensive loads available commercially for it. I do handload for mine and have a stockpile of Hornady bullets, but I am not going to use handloads for personal defense, and the inital bullet diameter is very small. The "high velocity" doesn't impress me. It is faster than most other autopistol cartridges but it isn't anywhere near the league of a rifle. I can shoot a 110 grain HP out of a .357 at 2000 fps using a published load from the powder manufacturer, yet this load is never mentioned as a good defensive load in .357 dispite the fact that it is bigger in diameter and faster than the standard CZ52 loadings. IMO the bottlenecked case is a poor choice for a handgun, that is why there are very few of them out there.

As far as the High Point.......... I have never fired a High Point handgun so I can't give an honest objective opinion, but the one thing I can say for it since we are talking strictly about it's use as a defensive handgun is that it is available in serious, universally accepted defensive cartridges. People who use handguns for human targets use these calibers. Not 7.62x25mm. That speaks for itself as far as caliber is concerned. The development of defensive pistol cartridges has been going on for a century. We have made significant advances in the last 20 years. Study after study has been done by both civilian and military labs. We have a century of actual field data to examine. The result of all this experience, and testing is the best defensive pistol ammo ever available in the history of humankind. And the High Point is chambered in those calibers and can utilize that ammo.

[Gewehr98]

I trust them about as far as I can throw them. Dunno if their zinc-alloy frames will corrode like a real steel one, so perhaps that's a good thing. Strength of the zinc frames? There's a reason Hi-Point puts that lifetime warranty on them, figure it out yet? They do have substantial heft to them, especially their slides, being blowback-operated, so if they jam you at least have something with mass to throw at your attacker, especially if there's still a full magazine in it. Friend of mine ended up with his roommate's Hi-Point after she left for Kalifornia. He sold it to me, and I used it as a partial trade-in on a Kahr K9. It sounded like Andrew Wyatt had a somewhat vested interest in defending the Hi-Point/Lorcin/Jennings/Bryco/Davis family of "affordable" firearms, hence me asking about his location. For the money spent on one, there are plenty of dependable and solid used guns, to include S&W revolvers, Ruger revolvers, Makarovs, CZ-52s, Ballester-Molinas, and the like.

If you don't like the CZ-52 in 7.62x25, that's fine. Plenty of places will sell you a replacement 9mm Luger barrel that drops right in. Neat thing is you can still use the original magazines with the 9mm barrel. Is the gun a big chunk of steel? Yup. A roller-locked chunk of steel, no less, firing a high-velocity .30-caliber round that was almost banned for it's ability to penetrate body armor.

I haven't broken the firing pin in my CZ-52 yet, but I did buy a replacement one, just in case. And, lest we all forget, the Tokarev round has a long military history (even if it isn't U.S. military history), and several famous cousins, to include the .30 Luger and .30 Mauser. If you think they're some sort of Johnny-come-lately .30 caliber weakling, look at the variety of guns that chambered the above trio. Broomhandles, P-08's, Tokarevs, PPsH, CZ-52, etc. Churchill even carried a Broomie. As for their Czech origin, how about the later CZ-75? Hey, Soviet Kalashnikovs were made by an also-ran country, but I doubt anybody would begrudge them their desire to use it as a SHTF rifle.

[444]

I already have a 9mm Luger barrel for one of my CZ52s. It transforms a handgun that I already don't trust into a full sized, single stack 9mm, a caliber it wasn't designed for. That still doesn't make me want to carry one for personal defense.

Yeah, the 7.62x25 has a rich history behind it. I think it was probably a prety good cartridge in a burp gun. But as far as handguns go, all those guns you mention were replaced long ago. The reason may have been the design of the gun, but if it was, they would have retained the cartridge in a new design, which they didn't do. In fact the Soviets replaced the Tokarev with the 9mm Makarov. That should tell you something. The Broomhandle Muser was never seriously considered as a good frontline military handgun, and the P08 was issued in 9mm Luger. When the Ak47 rifle was being issued, the Soviet union wasn't an also ran country. In fact in 1947, the AK was head and shoulders above any other military rifle in existence. Now, the Soviet Union, as well as the AK47 rifle is an also ran. Although the design of the rifle was good enough that it is still being used in a different caliber by also ran countries.

Let the guns and cartridges stand on their own merits, you don't need to try to discredit another person on this board by making some kind of conspiracy theory involving where he lives with gun companies from kalifornia that are out of business. High Point is in Ohio and has no connection with the other companies you mention. The fact that this guy happens to live near the former location of one of these companies means nothing. So let's keep on topic and stop grasping at straws.

[gryphon]

I have very little experience with the CZ pistols, only enough to know that I do not like the "thin" slide it has on it. My hands are quite large and I have a tendency to grab both the frame and the slide when trying to charge the pistol.

The hi-point's, I have 2 of, the 9mm carbine as well as the compact 9mm. The pistol is very accurate and has NEVER for ANY reason failed to function. I cannot say that about any of my other pistols.

The lifetime warranty is a good touch as well. I've called the company several times inquiring about information on their products and have always had a good response from them.

Like many other's I would not use my Hi-Point as a CCW, but I am 100% confident in it's function. There are many other more concealable firearms for CCW, IMO.

[George Hill]

My firing pin busted on the 16th to 18th dry fire... I'm not sure.
But I replaced it for 20 bucks, and when I did, the trigger pull somehow felt a lot better. The ammo - if you look around, there are a lot of JHP, JSP ammo you can get for it. FMJ's might not be the best choice... Granted...

However, if your traveling on the road for any reason... the CZ-52 might be the better choice as you are likely to be involved in a shooting in or around a vehicle and that extra penetrative ability of the CZ could become ideal. 9mm has iffy windshield penetration potential.

I wouldn't pack around a 52 for home defense... but I would for a road trip.

[Soap]

Makarov! :D I would go with the CZ-52 with handloads of course.

[WonderNine]

My firing pin busted on the 16th to 18th dry fire... I'm not sure.

I always hear that the stock CZ-52 firing pins will break with only a few dry firings, so you must have had a good one :D

Did you replace it with a stainless firing pin from Makarov.com? I'm under the impression that those don't break....

[Soap]

The guy who makes the replacement firing pins, Mr. Harrington, lives right down the road from me. They are of very high quality and should not break if you replace the parts he recommends. IIRC you need the firing pin and one other part that isn't very expensive... :confused:

[George Hill]

Yup, the "Match" firing pin.
Worked great. Felt good. Didn't break. Didn't shoot out the back and hit me in the chin. It just worked. What more can you say about it?
It worked.