Glock .357 Sig rated for 20,000 round life


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Min
May 10, 2003, 08:56 PM
According to an article in the latest Guns and Weapons for Law Enforcement magazine.

However, same article stated Glock 19 has an indefinite life expectancy since it was overbuilt for factory 9mm pressures.

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Tom B
May 10, 2003, 09:27 PM
I wonder if this is true also for the 40cal Glocks?

Min
May 10, 2003, 09:41 PM
.40 cal Glocks are rated for about 25,000 rounds, if memory serves me right. Actually, come to think of it, the .357 Sig was only 15,000 rounds, not 20K as previously stated.

355sigfan
May 11, 2003, 07:44 AM
Whats the source of these figures? Glock themselves. Just curious.
PAT

T.Stahl
May 11, 2003, 10:55 AM
Rated for 20,000 rounds? With which safety numbers? :confused:
Considering that Hirtenberger shot 348,210 rounds through a G17 before they had to exchange the barrel.

Tamara
May 11, 2003, 10:57 AM
Probably rated that way by Glocks LE Sales department.

"We're sorry, Chief Wiggums, but it's time to trade those guns in on new ones now." :)

Erich
May 11, 2003, 11:46 AM
I had a Glock 33 that I put more than 2k rounds through (don't recall how many more, but I remember the 2k milestone). Starting around 1k rounds, it needed me to clean the striker channel every couple of hundred rounds because primer sealant would start to cause light strikes otherwise. I never replaced any springs.

Aside from this above-the-recommended cleaning, the gun appeared to be in essentially new condition when I sold it, and I'm pretty sure the gun shop guys did not believe I'd shot it as much as I had.

Now, the G33 is the microGlock version in .357. I would think that if the 20k number holds for any of the .357s, it would especially hold for the microGlocks.

I certainly would have replaced recoil springs eventually, but my 33 sure didn't look 10% of the way to the graveyard when I got rid of it.

HBK
May 11, 2003, 01:10 PM
So what happens after 20,000 rounds? You have to get a new gun or just do maintenance in the old one?

Handy
May 11, 2003, 09:30 PM
The Glock .40s and .357s are nothing more than 9mm models with different barrels and breechfaces. If you stuff a much more powerful round in a 9mm gun without doing anything to address the difference, what do you expect?


How long do you think an unmodified 1911 or Glock 21 would last with .45 Super rounds fired through it?

WonderNine
May 11, 2003, 10:23 PM
However, same article stated Glock 19 has an indefinite life expectancy since it was overbuilt for factory 9mm pressures.

Most 9mm's are. Most 9mm's are built to NATO spec to fire alot of NATO pressure ammo before failing. Standard pressure 9mm rounds are a bit weaker than NATO pressure.

The Glock .40s and .357s are nothing more than 9mm models with different barrels and breechfaces. If you stuff a much more powerful round in a 9mm gun without doing anything to address the difference, what do you expect?

Are you sure it doesn't have a stronger recoil spring? I'll bet it does. I thought the Glock frame was strengthened for the .357/.40 caliber models as well??? Or perhaps it was strong enough to begin with.

I know the .40 Hi-Power was redesigned and rebuilt for that round, yet it looks basically the same and is almost exactly the same size.

Handy
May 11, 2003, 10:59 PM
Pretty sure. Other "just stick a forty barrel in there" guns, like the P99, have the same spring and slide.

The Hipower was redesigned. They tried to do what every other maker was doing, but the problems caused by the more powerful .40 were more immediate in the HP design.


I think it's interesting that the most accurate .40 pistols are the ones designed around the cartridge, rather than the add-ons.

Longbow
May 12, 2003, 01:11 PM
IIRC, the Glock .40's has an extra pin in the frame in the locking log area for extra strenght. So its somewhat redesigned also, like the BHP.:confused:

Handy
May 12, 2003, 06:00 PM
The .40 BHP has a larger, heavier slide to deal directly with the added recoil. The Glock pin is a reinforcement for the beating the gun is going to have to take.

jc2
May 12, 2003, 06:43 PM
FWIW, all current production Glocks have the same number of pins.

Glock added the extra pin after their pistols bombed (self-destructed) in the CHP pistol trials.

Tamara
May 12, 2003, 07:21 PM
3rd Gen small-frame Glocks all have the same number and size of frame pins.

AFAIK, 9mm, .40, and .357SIG Glocks all have the same weight recoil springs.

I've shot three pre-3rd Gen .40 cal Glocks past the 20k round mark without breakage or required parts replacement.

Chief Wiggums still needs new guns every five years. ;)

9mmdude
May 12, 2003, 07:55 PM
If you can afford $ 4,800 on 20,000 rounds of ammo you can afford the 15% of that to replace the gun that broke.

355sigfan
May 12, 2003, 08:04 PM
Good point. But one of the attractions of the GLock was its long service life. I want to get a 17 again just to have for long term use.
PAT

Handy
May 12, 2003, 08:16 PM
If you can afford 20,000 rounds of ammo, you can afford the extra $100 for a USP (or whatever), too.

BHP9
May 12, 2003, 08:18 PM
I always take service life reports with a huge grain of salt.

Factors such as how well the person cares for his weapon must be taken into the equation. A weapon that gets no lubrication or gets inferior lubrication due to the type of lubricant used or inadequate amounts even of good a lubricant will not last nearly as long as the weapon that is properly lubricated with the right lubricant and the right amount of it and also kept spotlessly clean.

Another factor is parts failure. Take 10 sears or 10 hammers or 10 recoil springs and none will last the same amount of time. Recoil springs in particular I have seen often fail in as little as 2,000 rounds of use and here again this often reflects what type of ammo was used such as low power target loads or extemely high power defense loads such as +P+ loads.

Barrel life too varies greatly. Overheat a barrel and or never clean it and it too will fail far sooner than one that is never overheated and always cleaned to like new condition.

So when certain charismatic gun writers claim 170,000 rounds out of plastic pistol with no replacement of parts one can be almost sure its nothing more than advertisement hype to sell more handguns of that particular model.

Rebuilding a handgun to like new when it is worn out was possible back with handguns were made of quality materiels i.e. forginings because a forging could always be welded back up if they became cracked or damaged from rust and pitting. You will not be able to do this with plastic framed handguns and cast frame handguns usually are not good candidates for a weld job. Modern handguns are usually just not worth it monetarily to rebuild, they are designed as throw away weapons. Once a plastic frame is damaged it usually is not worth the expense and the paperwork of registration to get another frame for it. And if the plastic frame gun has been discontinued the only choice is the nearest trash bin.

In short the throw away society has now extended to handguns as well. The family heirloom that lasted 3 generations has become largely extinct. The use it once and throw it away object has become standard in all things we buy and use today.

Tamara
May 12, 2003, 09:52 PM
Barrel life too varies greatly. Overheat a barrel and or never clean it and it too will fail far sooner than one that is never overheated and always cleaned to like new condition.

Define "fail". I imagine a the definitions of "Barrel Failure" between a bullseye shooter and a materials engineer would be quite different. :scrutiny:

"Service Life" is a nebulous concept, too. One of our local shops was one of the earliest Glock dealers in the USA. They still have their original Glock 17 demo gun. After 20+ years of demonstrating the gun to police departments (beating it on asphalt, running it over with trucks, chucking it across the parking lot, et cetera) the bottom half of the tang on the front of the slide that captures the guide rod finally failed. (One of their standard Stupid Gun Tricks was to pound the gun muzzle-first on the ground like a hammer until the slide flew off, then re-mount the slide and shoot the gun.) The gun still shoots, it just looks weird. Don't call me; call Craig's Firearms & Police Supply in Knoxville, TN and ask them about it....

jc2
May 13, 2003, 07:33 AM
"Service life" would almost have to (should) refer to the frame. All the other parts are replacable (even the barrel and the slide). In fact, many of the other parts should be replaced as routine preventive maintenance. Once the frame fails, it's time for a new pistol.

You would expect the Glock frame to fail (when it fails) where the locking block and the frame mate. This is the weakest point of the Glock frame (where the CHP test models failed and Glock added the extra pin). Of course, you would expect it to fail much faster shooting the 357 Sig than the 9x19. Other potential shortfalls of the Glock frame are the pin holes becoming elongated enough they fell to provide a solid hold on the pins, and of course, I guess the slide rails will always be an area of concern.

Hopefully, when Glock says a service life of 20,000 rounds they mean after 20,000 round the potential for the frame failings becomes siginicantly higher (important if you're a cop but not necessarily if you're just shooting IDPA or whatever)--not that you can't shoot it any more. Though in all honesty, I agree with Tamara's assessment--it means Gaston wants to sell your agency new handguns.

BZ422
May 18, 2003, 06:32 PM
Hello all, I work for a mid-sized Police Dept and we are all issued the Glock 23, .40cal. My issue weapon was brand new when I got it, however we do have some examples that are about 8 years old and have an estimated 25,000 rounds through them. Records were kept, and I believe the figure to be accurate to within 1500 rounds or so, give or take. I was paging through maintenance logs and all, and I found that the recoil and trigger springs were replaced about every 3,000 rounds. We are now using Wolff steel guide rods and a recoil spring that is rated about 4lbs heavier than factory spec, also we now use a New York-1 trigger spring. I started here about 8 months ago and thus far have fired exactly 2,300rnds through my Glock. I shoot at least once a week, pending my workload, and so do many of the officers here. Overall, we haven't put an exact "service life" on the Glock 23 yet, since every example we have still functions flawlessly with normal care and spring relacements. Also, aside from general holster wear and such, the frames do not show signs of damage or degredation on a visual level. I was told at one point that any damage to the frames would be remedied by Glock. I guess time will tell.

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