Does anyone else get that feeling the noose is tightening?


May 10, 2003, 11:35 PM
It seems like not too long ago we were all kicking back with no real legislative worries, but then it also seems like all hell broke loose lately. Between the renewal of the AWB coming up, and the school shootings in New Orleans and that college, and now this ATFe horsecrap... This almost seems like WAY to many things happening too close together.

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May 11, 2003, 12:04 AM
The AWB has been a long time comming. The rest of it though, does worry me a bit, so far those shootings have not got much attention.

May 11, 2003, 01:17 AM
I definitely know the feeling.

Glock Glockler
May 11, 2003, 01:33 AM
Fight back.

Find some people who you think will be receptive to the RKBA message, and talk to them, and/or find some people that you think would enjoy shooting and take them.

May 11, 2003, 01:36 AM
The war has put the conservatives at ease. Time to put the liberals at ease by announcing support for banning a particular color of rifle and an arbitrary number of rounds.

It is all politics as usual... trying to make every voter feel like voting for him.

"Read my lips...". Bush seemed gun friendly when he ran for office, but " new taxes" now seems to have forgotten the 2nd.

It is a scary time. Has anybody read Farenhieght 541 lately?

May 11, 2003, 01:46 AM
It is a scary time, but when the noose does start to tighten is the time to fight your hardest.

May 11, 2003, 01:53 AM
Sure I feel the noose tightening, but shhh, don't talk about it or you'll be one of the tin-foil hatters...:D ;)

La La La...:uhoh:

Jim March
May 11, 2003, 02:11 AM
I get the feeling that the other side is desperate.

The DiFi-type Federal assault weapons bill won't pass. The alternative now being proposed, the "California type" with Chucky and company behind it is utterly DOA, it's just grandstanding.

The USSC is going to have to step in soon. The recent dissents in the 9th Circuit are just breathtaking.

May 11, 2003, 04:55 AM
I am able to go to NYC for a visit while packing.
plus buying the.308 (dsa I think) with hi caps
that I saw in the NRA mag the other month.
The internet has been such a boon to freedom!
Thanks to the net we can organize nationwide
and we certainly seem to have them running.
However,the fat lady hasn't sang yet.
I know it seems old fashioned,but I got on my
knees to pray that GW Bush would win(much to the chagrin
of all my liberal friends) I am doing the same for a good
SCOTUS,& sunset AWB outcomes.
I'm afraid that the politicians will figure out
some way to keep the status quo and some
angry gun owner will feel that there is nothing to
lose & try to start another Lexington/Concord
situation without brains we had on our side the first
time to lead the know what I mean?

May 11, 2003, 11:35 AM
You feel it because it IS tightening!

May 11, 2003, 02:06 PM
Yes, the noose is getting a bit snug. We all see the signs and some of us saw them even before the 2000 election. There were dire predictions that, while Gore would quickly take all_our guns and turn the country into a Socialist state, Bush would do the same thing more slowly.

It isn't a matter of who is in the Oval Office, all politicians want the same thing-- job security. Allowing the Sheeple to take care of themselves and thus to become less dependent on Big Brother is contrary to the basic idea of government.

The rope will continue to tighten until, like any animal in danger of death, even the Sheeple will fight back in an attempt to free themselves from the strangling noose. We may try to avoid it now, but Big Brother is patient and willing to cull the easier Sheeple first, clearing the way to us. Our basic tactic of 'compromising' every time some legislator dreams up a new gun ban proposal will, in time, compromise us into total slavery.

We look forward to beating the AWB in Congress, thus not allowing GWB the opportunity to sign it. Maybe. We look forward to a favorable Supreme Court decision regarding the 2nd Amendment. Again, I say 'maybe.'

Too many onerous bills have passed through Congress with only voice votes or even with only two or three votes because those were all that were present at the time. The AWB may very well get similar treatment.

The Supreme Court has all the latitude in the world when it hears a case. It can even choose not to hear a case we all clamor for a decision on. When or if it does hear a true 2nd Amendamt case, it can, and probably will, so narrowly define the issue that there will be no clear victory for either side. They will publish an 800 page decision that will ignore all the issues that need to be clarified and focus on something none of us care about. It will look like something 'Baghdad Bob' would be proud of.

Many of us have been to war at one time or another and have no desire to go again. I doubt the men on Concord Green enjoyed their outing against the British, but they did it and we can be forever thankful they did. People of my generation probably won't have to do anything like that but our kids or grandkids may have to. We go to the range and poke holes in paper. We write impassioned messages on internet bulletin boards and to our legislators. But, as was pointed out recently in California, few of us vote our concsiences.

It may already be too late for correcting our problems at the ballot box. We may have to resort to the bullet box to get out of this quagmire of socialism we've willingly jumped into, but voting is still permitted and we just might be able to avert a terrible tragedy by voting properly. But we must all vote, and we can't vote like the liberals want us to. We have to vote as a block. No more casting a vote for a Republican just because he has an "R" by his name. If he doesn't support us, why should we support him? True, the "D" may be worse, but the next "R" may be a bit smarter than the one we just rode out of office.

Politicians live in a different world than we do. They tend to reinforce their own feelings of royalty. It takes time to teach them simple things, like their jobs depend on how well they treat us. Bush I was a One Term_Wonder because of us and even Clinton admitted that we threw the 2000 election to Bush II. If GWB signs the AWB he deserves the same fate as his father.

Even Politicians can learn.

Sorry about the length. I've been thinking about this for awhile.

May 11, 2003, 04:12 PM
Yes, the noose is tightening. I have read the new bill presented to COngress by the anti-gunners. It would ban just about everything except single shot 22 rimfires. I doubt it will see the light of day. It goes back to my old and tired yelling and ranting that we need to get off our asses.

The gun grabbers feel it is time to make their move. They have gone from licking their wounds from the last election to picking up on a new tactic. They believe they lost last time around because they were NOT liberal enough. (read communist) This latest bill is just the first salvo. The "re-newing" of the AWB is a big fat lie. It has been changed so much that it makes the first one look reasonable. If this AWB gets in, kiss your scoped hunting rifle, Garand, M1 Carbine , in fact it mentions rifles designed to fire .30 caliber ammo! This bill is an abomination. If it passes, I prey it doesn't, there could be blood in the streets over this.

Ol'Fart had it right hen he said It isn't a matter of who is in the Oval Office, all politicians want the same thing-- job security.

Sharpen your word processors, get the stamps by the roll. We need to turn the heat up on the congress critters. That we are not a bunch of militant yahoos. We are Americans who are putting them on notice that they are screwing with the Constitution and we will not stand for it. Therefore, if they want to keep teir jobs, they need to shape up and obey the Bill of RIghts. :cuss:

Standing Wolf
May 11, 2003, 06:51 PM
The only day to relax our concern for the nation's civil rights is May 37th.

Matthew Courtney
May 11, 2003, 07:17 PM
Many of us have been to war at one time or another and have no desire to go again. I doubt the men on Concord Green enjoyed their outing against the British, but they did it and we can be forever thankful they did.

The skirmishes that began the acitve fighting of the Revolutionary War on April 15, 1775 took place at Lexington Green, Concord Bridge, and along the road as the British retreated.

May 11, 2003, 07:33 PM
When I was seven, I found my dad's handgun in a drawer in the house we lived in, in Eton. It was a huge thing, as I recall, and I later learned that it was i'faith a .357. Don't ask me the make, I was a tad young to know one huge, wooden-gripped wheelgun from another. He taught me to handle it safely.

When I was 10, my mum showed me where she kept the knives that "were for bad men". She explained to me very clearly and concicely what consitited "bad", and how I shouldn't hesistate to put one of them into someone who threatened her, or my brother, or anyone who we knew, if they fell into the category "Bad" - it would be OK if I did, because I'd be defending my loved ones.

When I was 14, I remember both my parents doing 120 MPH up and down the motorways (sorry, freeways) taking me to and from school, and being advised that first I'd become a driver, then a safe driver, then a good driver, and finally a good, safe driver.

When I was 16, I saw a lot of people getting rich of new technologies, which I was utterly addicted to by then (the technologies, not the riches), and Making Something Of Themselves.

When I was 18 I truly discovered the Internet - the world without constraints, without controls, without boundaries. Populated by the literate, the intelligent, the calm, rational, well-spoken minds who guided and developed the technologies which would better everyone's lives.

I'm 29 now. All the above statements are now sweet, impossible dreams - gone forever, stolen my lackwits, my skulking thieves, by moochers, by spineless phagrocytes leaching the life from the living.

The noose isn't only tightening, the pewling morass of the great unwashed is thinning the air, also.

Sorry if this post seems a bit bitter and angry. First amendment, and all that...

May 11, 2003, 10:29 PM
Somehow it seems sometimes that the gubmint is run like a two bit mobster protection racket. Buy our protection or you'll see why you need protection.

May 12, 2003, 11:28 AM
Just want to correct something.

Feinstein IS re-introducting the bill in an identical form as last time, with perhaps the possible exception of adding mag import ban to the list.

The "Kali" style federal ban is being pushed as well; but will not be the one we will hear about.

Sergeant Bob
May 12, 2003, 03:47 PM
gunsmith I wont be happy till I get a ccw &

I won't be happy until CCW License is not required. Rights do not require licensing.

Dogsoldier The gun grabbers feel it is time to make their move. They have gone from licking their wounds from the last election to picking up on a new tactic. They believe they lost last time around because they were NOT liberal enough. (read communist) This latest bill is just the first salvo. The "re-newing" of the AWB is a big fat lie. It has been changed so much that it makes the first one look reasonable.

The grabbers are making it their "business" to take our guns away. Just like selling a car. You ask a price which is higher than the car is worth, knowing you will not get it, leaving room to bargain. When the buyer offers you something less, you say "Well, OK" and the buyer thinks he's getting it for a reasonable price. See Conyers/McCarthy bill vs the Fineswine bill. Anyone think they're not working together on this?

Don Gwinn
May 12, 2003, 04:06 PM
All right, that's enough doom-and-gloom for one session. Let's look at the positives:

1. Shall-issue CCW is all over the place and spreading like wildfire. I live in one of the few enclaves left that doesn't allow CCW under any circumstances, and for those of you who are terribly unhappy because CCW is licensed in your state, let me suggest that your cup is half full. More people are getting that opportunity now, and that's a Good Thing. Not only because it's good for them, but it makes the fight easier as well. When Missouri gets its CCW law, I can point to yet another neighbor of Illinois that has freedom and safe streets at the same time.

2. The AW ban actually has a good chance of going down in flames if we do our part. That's HUGE! The mere chance that it might not be renewed was dismissed as impossible wishful thinking as little as a year ago, remember? This AW Ban re-enactment fight is a positive, NOT a negative. There's not a thing about it that's negative from our point of view. The roles have been reversed for this one small part of the RKBA fight. How many times have you complained that we're always on the defensive and the antis never give up anything? Well, here's your chance. The antis have to defend their precious law. If we win, we lose the law. If we lose, we're right where we are today (unless the CA version passes, of course, but it won't.)

As for Bush supposedly turning on us, I'm wary of underestimating him. Everyone who underestimates Bush gets squashed like a bug. I'm waiting to see. If the Republicans in Congress kill the AW Ban, no one will be able to convince me that Bush didn't make some kind of deal with them to ensure that he could cover himself in public without having to sign that bill.

Be glad that you have this great opportunity to fight! Honestly, would you prefer to attempt to repeal the Ban from scratch? Seize the day!

3. We are closer than ever to getting our day before the Supreme Court, possibly with a more favorable court than we've had in years and with the bulk of legal scholarship now squarely on our side. There are two separate big-time, funded lawsuits against the District of Columbia. There's a lawsuit against Chicago. There are Emerson, Nordyke, and Silveira to resolve. Things are finally moving. Sure, this fight is scary because we're in trouble if we lose, but we're already in trouble. The chance to fight our way out of it should be met with joy.

Yes, there are problems, but no, the noose is not tightening. The antis are getting desperate and doing whatever they have to do to get into the spotlight. The media is willing to make it look like they're unstoppable and beloved by all. But the reality is that we have several golden opportunities here.

Tom B
May 12, 2003, 04:40 PM
Perhaps we are about to find out what Bush and the Republicans are really made of? Lets watch. :scrutiny:

Agent Z
May 12, 2003, 06:06 PM
Don't these bleeding heart gun grabbers ever pay attention to other arena's where gun abolishment went into effect?

Take Australia for example. Everyone turned in their guns like good lil subjects. Everyone except for the criminal element. Crime went up across the board. Not mildley either. Murder rates went up 50%.

While in other venues where gun laws became laxed crime went down. I have heard (but not verified) that in towns in the U.S. where it is legal to open carry, there is virtually no serious crime at all other than allot of dead cats :neener: (my apologies to those of you who love cats. I could'nt resist the pun.)

May 12, 2003, 06:19 PM
No way the current Republican Congress is going to pass the AWB, not even the watered down one there now that Diane Frankenstein rammed through. Wait until Carolyn McCarthy, Chuckie and that Senator with Down's Syndrome... Oh yeah, Patti Murray try to ram the current California Bill through Congress. Won't happen. The fools in the Senate will probably pass somehting but none of these is ever going to see the light of day in the house. Then Bushy won't have to break a campaign promise.

I almost fell out of my chair the other night when Joe Blow Loserman said he was not for gun registration as his former running mate ALGORE was. He says ALGORE already had that position when he signed up but he didn't like it.

Look at the poor stupid DemocRATS squirm. They have nothing to sell but more negative BS about Social Security. When was the last time you heard of someone not getting their check? When you do, you will need your arms to defend yourselves. When the 20 year olds of today are paying 80% taxes to keep my Social Security checks coming in about 25 years, they are going to be real pissed off! That's when it hits the fan.

May 12, 2003, 11:54 PM
Okay, maybe I should be reaching for my tin foil hat with this, but...

I remember reading some place that klinton signed an agreement with the UN that requires a civilian disarmement by 2010. There is the Un policy of global disarmement. Dig around the Un web site, it's there, I've read it. That by signing this document, the American gubbermint agreed to disarm her citizens by that date. In fact the Un document required that all member nations have an unarmed population and agree that only military and police services will be allowed to carry firearms.

Maybe the liberals (read communists) are merely following their master's agenda. The biy King Bill never went away. He is politically alive and well through his minions in congress.

I do agree that HCI is in the business of banning guns. Many an HCI mucky muck has made a fat salary by treading on our rights. The part that gets me really fired up is when you see loud mouths like Rosie O, saying no one should own a gun, except her body guard becuase she's special after all, Sarah Brady making a strawman purchase for her kid, and Diane Freakenstien having a CCW, because she needs protection. All people are equal within the eyes of the law. But, like all commies, these people believe they are more equal than others. Tyrants, bigots and racists all. :cuss:

May 13, 2003, 03:40 AM
We need to remember that this is the time to put maximum effort into the fight...Not the time to lament past losses!:D

Jim's right, you know...if we do our part we can keep the AWB from being renewed;)

Get those faxes and letters and phones engaged....

We can give Chuckie and DiFi something to really whine about:D

Dain Bramage
May 13, 2003, 11:20 AM
"...that Senator with Down's Syndrome... Oh yeah, Patti Murray...".

Ouch! That's my senator, painful as it is to say. :D

The commune is so strong here in Washington state, that even her pro-Osama Bin-Laden comments didn't get her in hot water.

Sigh. I guess it's time I sent Patti an anti-AWB letter, for all the good it will do. I'll be sure to use small words!

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