[Oleg Volk]

...in Brazil.

http://photos.photosig.com/photos/82/90/409082-ef99b967c795e7fe.jpg

Puts 40SW vs. 357sig discussions into perspective, eh?

[Standing Wolf]

I wonder what the bad guys carry in Brazil.

[Newton]

145 grain lead round nose at 730 fps doesn't give much room for error.

But hey, shot placement right.

Newton

[Mk VII]

I think Ruger made a bunch of revolvers for the Singapore police in this calibre some years ago. i doubt anyone will make any new guns for this cartridge again.

[Wildalaska]

Not so bad, I remember seeing Thailand cops packing Tokarevs (nickel plated even)...

WildniceleogunsehAlaska

[9mmepiphany]

maybe they are still using the 200gr "british load"...talk about tumbling on target

[Jim Watson]

Yeah, but I bet a Brazilian cop will have to do a lot less paperwork if he plugs a felon with a Webley than a US LEO has to put up with for shooting a crook with a .357.

[4v50 Gary]

Betcha their armorer is really happy about that.

[abaddon]

Jim,

I bet a brazilian LEO would have to do less paperwork than a US LEO if he killed the guy with a hand grenade.

Jeff

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

Dunno if the 200-gr. load is still made. Most of those guns are shooting a 179-gr. FMJ loafing along at about 630 fps. I bought a heap of this South American ammo marked "12 Patrone Rewolwer .380" MK 2 Z" on one side of the box, and "12 Cartridges Revolver .380 MK 2 Z" on the other. Only other mark is " P. M. P. 811." on a third side.

Headstamp is "P.M.P. 67" over ".380 2Z". Anyone know who P.M.P. is?

Really looong FMJ's with a heavy crimping groove but no visible crimp. As I read someplace, they don't share the tendency to tumble that the 200-gr lead bullets did, which explains why the British switched to Hi-Powers for their military. And of course, Bobbys don't need guns, right? But in the Colonies it's adifferent story...

The rounds come in these cute little boxes with a red sticker with the printing on it holding 'em shut. Clean ammo, sure fire, I got 'em to shoot out of my Secret Service Special 5-shot top-break, but I don't use 'em much as the old "SSS" probably doesn't like FMJ's. (It's dar near an antique.) They're accurate and soft-shooting out of my little counterfeit, although they don't shoot were the sights point, as the "SSS" is set up for ".38 SMITH AND WESSON cartridges", as it so loudly proclaims in large-ish letters on the top of the barrel. (Wishing won't make it so, but it's still a good little gun made by H&R in the late 'teens/early twenties.) The slow, heavy bullets shoot high, but centered.

The Mk. IV Webleys are super mushbuckets to shoot, are plenty accurate, can be reloaded quickly, will never wear out, have decent triggers and a rebounding hammer, and have all of something like six internal parts with the leaf-style mainspring doing triple-duty as a trigger return and hammer rebound spring. Webley still makes 'em as target guns, I think, so parts are around, or you can recycle all those war-surplus guns. (I dropped a WW II-vintage MK VI barrel on my 1914-vintage Mk. IV, with basically no fitting. The British had interchangeability down to a science. Colts and Smiths don't do that.) I think they interchange some parts with the old Enfield revolvers too! They're pretty slick guns, mechanism-wise. (Of course, the reason they only have six internal parts because the cylinder latch and attendant leaf spring hang-out on the OUTside of the gun. :rolleyes: )

In the context of they're leftovers from the British in as-new condition for cops to mostly carry and maybe point at someone occaisonally, while still being perfectly lethal, albeit slowly, they're a penny-pinching beareaucrat's dream. And the load has got to be comparable to the .38 Special RNL, which served in the U.S. up until the early eighties. Lotsa holster-worn but emminently servicable M&P's around, we love to buy 'em because they're new inside.

It's just those Brazillian cops haven't been watching enough Miami Vice. But I bet they all have FALs for back-up. Took that crazy Hollywood shootout to get rifles for OUR guys. ;)

[Lone Star]

Oleg-

With all due repsect, I see nothing about that gun to suggest it's a Webley, nor have I seen any other info to suggest that either the Webley or the .38 S&W cartridge are popular in Brazil.

Most data suggests that Brazilian cops carry either S&W arms or Taurus products. The usual caliber is .38 Special. Cops can't normally carry 9mm's or Magnums.

Webleys DO break, with mainspring, stirrup spring, and hammer nose being especially likely to fracture. I had it happen to two Mk. VI .455's and a pal had the hammer nose (fring pin) break on his, also.

Webley ceased revolver production in 1974.

Lone Star

[Mk VII]

PMP is Pretoria Metal Pressings, South Africa

[Tamara]

I think the speed of reloading on top-break revolvers is exaggerated. They need a firm grip with two hands to open, and a firm grip with two hands to close. Watch a good revolver shooter do a speed-load with a swing-out cylinder to see why one style died out and the other is still with us. ;)

All that being said, Webleys are neat guns. I will have one in .455 someday, when I find the right gun... I gave my .380 Enfield to my little brother as a b-day present. With that insanely heavy DAO trigger (never less than 11 pounds on any I've measured; I don't know how heavy the pull on my particular example was, as we only had 15 pounds of trigger weights), it was (in the words of a British sergeant in WWII) "too inaccurate to make a good pistol and too small to make a serviceable club". ;)

[Mike Irwin]

"They need a firm grip with two hands to open, and a firm grip with two hands to close."

Huh?

My normal way of opening an Enfield/Webley is with the thumb of my shooting hand and using my thigh as a fulcrum with which to pivot the barrel.

I'd LOVE to modify a Webley or Enfield to take moon clipped ammo.

[Tamara]

I'd LOVE to modify a Webley

...come to gun shows with me. I'm having a hard time finding one that hasn't been modified for less than eight or nine bills.

[Mike Irwin]

I've never seen one modified specifically to take moon clips.

I let a beautiful Mk VI get past me a couple of years ago for $300...

Now I don't even see them.

[Tamara]

One that's been modified to shoot .45AutoRim should take moonclips, right? That's the only kind I've seen around here for reasonable prices lately. (Three in the last year for $3-500/ea.; unmodified .455's seem to be hovering in the Eight Bills to One Long range...)

[Andrew Wyatt]

I want a .45 webley to go with my number4 mk1.


they're uber 1337.

[P95Carry]

This one, MkVI in .455 - (sorry, posting pic again!) ... has had a replacement lock lever return spring .... had to get that from Brownells and was a b*tch to fit cos so far differtent from original. Does the job tho. Also on an earlier one I had, the hammer firing pin protrusion bust off, and IIRC a main spring went too .... had to canibalize an old one to deal with that.

They are tough but .... not indestructible by a long shot ....... fascinating pieces tho .... and the sound of a discharge is different from any other piece I reckon.

http://www.patriotnetwork.net/cb_img/WebMkVI_hr.jpg

Sorry ... digressing a bit from .38's in Brazil!:)

[Mike Irwin]

Tams,

The two that I've seen that have had the cylinder face completely shaved didn't appear that they would take the most common kind of moon clips because of the rear of the cylinder, but I didn't actually try it.

[fallingblock]

Maybe contact some Australian dealers...before it's 'too late'?

There are a good number of Webley Mk. VI's, and earlier marks as well, and all of 'em are fixin' to die in the next six months or so.
Well, the 'legally-held' ones are, anyway.:rolleyes:

I suspect the hassles of importing them into the states could be a disincentive. You'd need the services of an import dealer, I guess.

All I had to do to export my 640's from this end was to request an export clearance permit from Australian Dept. of Defence and then the export clearance permit from Australian Customs (issued as routine to those with the DoD clearance).

All these historic, neat old revolvers, some of which have survived two world wars and colonial service all over the globe, like my mate's 1920 stamped "RIC", are to be chopped/squashed into scrap because they are "larger than .38 calibre".
This is part of the 'tough new handgun legislation' here.

Try: www.ssaa.org.au

there is a list of dealers on the 'links' page

[Tamara]

Hrmmm... :scrutiny:

"I 'ave an idea formin' in me 'ead..." -Benson, Time Bandits

[tex_n_cal]

Okay...I stumbled accross a .455, that looks like it's in excellent shape mechanically. It looks to me like the rear of the clylinder's been turned, at least it's bright & shiny, anyway. It seems to have quite a bit of gap at the back end. The price IIRC is $700 or so. Other than dropping a .45 Auto Rim case into it to see if it fits, how do I tell if it's original?

Don't these things have an odd bore size? I seem to recall a Seyfried article about them.

Ya'll are a bad influence...ya keep showing photos of odd pieces, and I keep wanting to buy them. Ya'll stop or I'll buy that Velo Dog I know about:evil:

[cleve land]

Both of my 45acp converts work with full moon clips. The non converts are more accurate.:cool:

[sw442642]

The Singapore guns were SW Model 10 with Crimson Trace laser grips, IIRC. Strange juxtiposition. There was some problem with something also - can't remember - duh.

[9mmepiphany]

didn't they just sign a contract to be armed with tarus (taruii?) equiped with the crimson trace grips