Crimson Trace Laser Grips


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tuckerdog1
September 13, 2006, 07:03 PM
First, I'm not complaining about their cost. I know things cost what they do for a reason ( usually ). But I'd like to know why they cost what they do. The actual grip looks to be similar to inexpensive rubber replacement grips for most guns. And lasers are not any big deal anymore. I've been given laser pointers free at trade shows. So if a rubber grip is combined with an item I can get for free, what makes the price go to around $200? They're selling 'em, so there has to be a reason.

Thanks,
Tuckerdog1

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up_onus
September 13, 2006, 07:05 PM
has anybody tried the lg-405 for their j frame?? (its the one with the recoil reduction pad).

PlayboyPenguin
September 13, 2006, 07:28 PM
I have always wondered what was the use of such items. They do not help you learn to be a better marksman at the range...quite the opposite really. And who would ever use them for home defense? Would you want to walk into a darkened part of your home not knowing where an invader might be with a big red glowing dot telling them exactely where to shoot if they were also armed? Are they just a novelty item? I can see where they are useful in law enforcement where you might be holding someone at gunpoint or in a sniper type exercise but for SD handguns I see little use. maybe i am missing something.

Fletchette
September 13, 2006, 07:48 PM
One of the advantages of the Crimson Trace lasergrips is that the button is in the grip, as opposed to elsewhere on the gun. This allows you to activate the laser only right before the shot, as an aiming aid.

I can hit cans from the hip at will with my S&W Scandium J-frame with the lasergrip. I am convinced.:)

up_onus
September 13, 2006, 08:00 PM
target aquisition....
helps get there faster....

and!

scare factor! if you see a laser sight on u....think they are aiming at you?

PlayboyPenguin
September 13, 2006, 08:12 PM
target aquisition....
helps get there faster....
and!
scare factor! if you see a laser sight on u....think they are aiming at you?

What good does target aquisition do in a home invasion if they can see you before you see them or at the range if you are not learning proper aiming techniques?

As for a scare factor...if i am pulling a weapon, i am firing it before they notice a red dot on them. I don't want to get into tthe habit of pulling my firearm as a deterent.

These are just my views...i am sure alot of people love them but I think it is more about flash and coolness than actual effectiveness or usefulness. :)

up_onus
September 13, 2006, 08:24 PM
it has a switch, home invaded? dont turn it on!!!!! wow....
as far as target aquisition...i dont even need to AIM it, like the wild west...

I can hit cans from the hip at will with my S&W Scandium J-frame with the lasergrip. I am convinced.

who wins pullin out of their holster, ESPECIALLY IN A TENSE SITUATION where even a LEO misses 75% of the time will win....
I know you probably practice more than a police officer, and have every situation down to where you could NEVER EVER need or use a laser....(even one that turns on and off with the pull of a finger) but! especially with SMALL guns that have less adequate sights....IT MIGHT JUST HELP! i dont have one by the way....but....i would like to, just have to make sure im not gettin a POS.


I forgot one thing penguin, how about low light/no light situations....

steelhead
September 13, 2006, 08:35 PM
Sure some Lasers are cheap but lasers that stand up to repeated recoil aren't......but I'm sure there is still a good margin. However, unlike some products (Akins AA stock comes to mind), the price isn't disproportionate with the value and usefulness of the product.


What good does target aquisition do in a home invasion if they can see you before you see them or at the range if you are not learning proper aiming techniques?

Ummm, no one said you still didn't need to train with irons and you aren't employing proper "technique" if you are walking around (clearing rooms or whatever) with the laser on. Unlike the Lasermax, the CTC's are momentary and can be activated or deactivated when you want them to.

As for a scare factor...if i am pulling a weapon, i am firing it before they notice a red dot on them. I don't want to get into tthe habit of pulling my firearm as a deterent.

It's silly to intentionally scare anyone with a firearm. However, aren't a lot of attacks/crimes stopped just with the defender producing a firearm? The addition of the laser is just a bonus to that effect. Also, you always draw with the intention of firing the firearm but that doesn't mean you always will....

These are just my views...i am sure alot of people love them but I think it is more about flash and coolness than actual effectiveness or usefulness.

Lasers aren't the end all be all (same goes for Glocks, 1911's, etc, etc) but they can be an effective tool to supplement, not replace, your basic defensive shooting techniques.

Sam Adams
September 13, 2006, 09:27 PM
As for a scare factor...if i am pulling a weapon, i am firing it before they notice a red dot on them. I don't want to get into tthe habit of pulling my firearm as a deterent.

I understand your sentiment, but OTOH I don't think that every single SD situation calls for the BG to be shot. You're only supposed to shoot when your life is in danger or you're at risk of serious bodily injury. So what do you do if some huge guy (or 2 or 3 of them) are busy trying to break into your car on your driveway? Do you let them keep doing it, do you start a fight with 3 guys without using a gun, or do you draw as a means of protecting yourself if needed while simultaneously deterring them from continuing and giving them a very big incentive to leave? IOW, I'd like some option between doing nothing/getting beaten to a pulp and putting a guy 6 feet under. It isn't brandishing (which is offensive in nature, IMHO), it is defensive. Why have a life (even a semi-worthless one) on your conscience for the rest of your life?

bender
September 13, 2006, 11:42 PM
I checked some out today for the first time ever, at a gun store. They had some on a plastic toy gun, and I was pretty impressed.

But, yeah, I see the retail price of $299 and think... ***? But still, I'm gonna get one.

something not mentioned in this thread yet, many older shooters with eyesight not too good anymore, like the lasergrips.

joe4702
September 13, 2006, 11:44 PM
I would bet some of the cost is due to liability insurance.
Any company making gun-related products probably carries a bunch of insurance in this sue-happy country.

perpster
September 14, 2006, 12:34 AM
The Crimson Trace laser grips are an excellent training and practice aid. I will often unload my carry revolver and practice point shooting without activating the laser. Once I have punched the gun out I activate the laser and see if it is on what my point shooting POA was. I will then dry fire and observe the laser dot to practice minimizing it's movement during trigger pull.

Nice thing about them is that they are a SUPPLEMENT to iron sights and do not change or block anything to do with the iron sights. I don't like to rely on anything electronic without a ready back-up or substitute.

I have LG-205's on my S&W 340 Sc and am wondering if the LG-405's are worth buying. I like the addition of the on/off switch, but am wondering if the difference in felt recoil will justify the expense. I practice with full house .357 magnum loads. While manageable it's not pleasant. Any 405 users out there with an opinion/review?

steelhead
September 14, 2006, 01:28 AM
I also have the 205's and a set of rubber 305's. The 405's are going to give you a better grip but they won't do much for reducing felt recoil. CTC gave me the option to exchange my 205's, for 405's, when I took them in for cleaning. I passed as I like the smoothness of the 205's for pocket carry or in my Smart Carry holster. The rubber grips just grab too much and makes drawing a lot harder from those 2 types of carry. From a IWB or OWB holster they would be fine. I put a little bit of 3M tape on the front and back of the 205's to help with the grip but still allowing for an easy draw.

perpster
September 14, 2006, 01:32 AM
Hmmmm, Steelhead. I almost always pocket carry, so sticky grips could be a problem. If I do get the 405's I'll put the 205's onto a heavier J frame instead of trading-in. Thanks.

The Good
September 14, 2006, 05:08 AM
there is always a small amount of time where you are not sure if you will actually need to fire. its not a threat. its a "DROP YOUR WEAPON AND GET ON THE GROUND" moment.if you pulled out a weapon and aimed, and the bad guy stopped and gave up, would you shoot him?

BTW penguin, you seem to only be focusing on home invasions. there are other self defense scenarios and every single one will be different in every way. you cant predict the results. all lasergrips are is one more option

PlayboyPenguin
September 14, 2006, 01:23 PM
The Good,

Yes, there are lots of different SD scenerios...but I have yet to hear one instance where these things would be of great use. In my opinion, they do not increase your effectiveness if you use them as a training tool.

Someone mentioned using them to steady you trigger pull...how do they do that better than just learning to hit the target correctly unaided?

In an instance where you have drawn a weapon face to face with an assailant and are hoping to not have to shoot, do you really think a small red dot is going to add any fear to the situation that having a gun in your face is not?

And, back to home invasion, even though they can be truned on and off would you really take that extra 1/2 second to turn them on after aquiring the location of a possibly armed assailant before firing?

I just think they are a novelty made popular by movies and television and have little practical day to day use. I do not mind them...i am a big fan of toys and gadgets but I feel that is all they are and do not like when people try to sell them as "life saving" devices. :)

3 gun
September 14, 2006, 02:20 PM
CT grip work. How well? I'll soon have 4 sets in the family now that they have a model for CZs. I'm not a bad shot. I shoot USPSA and IDPA on a weekly basis. Used correctly I'm faster with the CT than without. We had an indoor stage of IDPA just this last Tuesday that would have been perfect to show the strength of CT grips. Low light, more than one target, more than one no shoot, movement by the shooter and the need to use cover while shooting. With CT grips you have no searching for an on switch, no hunting for your sights in the low light and a positive reference of your aim point. The guys who had night sights were slower while they looked for the glowing dots in the not quite dark enough light. Iron sights..the light was just a little to dim and the point shooters all had misses or hit no shoots somewhere. Tough stage for just 8 rounds. CT grip do help with practice. During your dry fire drills you'll notice the dot movement a lot more at 25ft than you'll see sight movement. Add movement and shooting from cover to your practice, and the feedback becomes even more important.

Having CT grips doesn't mean you can stop practicing or that you don't need to have the basics covered. They will help speed up your learning curve without firing a shot. With today's ammo prices it doesn't take long before the grips have paid for themselves.

steelhead
September 14, 2006, 05:54 PM
PB,


Based on your comments, it is clear that you are making statements based on supposition and not from personal experience.

Since you live in Portland, take a trip out to Beaverton, and visit the folks at CTC (they are real close to Washington Square). They will be more than happy to show and explain the advantages of their product. Plus, you would get a chance to see all the testaments from LEO's, military and civilians. At least then - you would be making an "informed" decision.

And, back to home invasion, even though they can be truned on and off would you really take that extra 1/2 second to turn them on after aquiring the location of a possibly armed assailant before firing?

This statement, alone, shows your total lack of understanding in how the grips function and are used.

Someone mentioned using them to steady you trigger pull...how do they do that better than just learning to hit the target correctly unaided?

Do you practice dry firing? If so, why? Isn't a ridiculus exercise.....? The laser can help aid you in developing a smoother pull. Can you develop a smoother pull without it? Yes. However, having a visual reference can be very instructive and only aid you in that goal.

In an instance where you have drawn a weapon face to face with an assailant and are hoping to not have to shoot, do you really think a small red dot is going to add any fear to the situation that having a gun in your face is not?

Check the testimonials from LEO's and civilians and you will get your answer. Bottom line, it certainly won't take away from the situation.

PlayboyPenguin
September 14, 2006, 05:58 PM
Steelhead,

I have used them and found them to be "cute and fun" but of no real use to me. One of my friends always brings his every time we go to the range.

I know how they work and how to activate them...and it would add a fraction of a second to your fire time no matter how proficent you were with them. It is just simply another step.

I do dry fire...but that is completely different than a live fire exercise using an aid.

As for testimonials...find me one not gathered and published by the company that produces them and I will put some weight into what it says. :)

steelhead
September 14, 2006, 06:02 PM
You are an OSU grad aren't you:uhoh: :D

Go Ducks!

up_onus
September 15, 2006, 01:00 PM
Im starting to think you are .......
DOES GRIPPING YOUR GRIP TAKE EXTRA TIME?
wow....hate them because you want to, not because they would work in some situations. Perfect people are .....PERFECT!
not all of us are, i practice dry firing daily, drawing daily, range time once a week with off hand, movement bot of me and the target and pressure reloads. This being no way ideal, but works with the "time constraints" I have. Crimson trace just brings target aquisition...faster WHEN YOU NEED IT.

RustyShackelford
September 16, 2006, 03:20 AM
I agree with the high cost of CrimsonTrace lasergrips. I bought a set for my Taurus Protector .357 in 2004. They are not cheap! ;)

BTW: I checked the CrimsonTrace.com site and they now sell a Ruger GP-100/Redhawk revolver model. Boo-yeah! :D

It's the new type of lasergrip so it will sell for $500-600.00 USD I bet, :rolleyes: .

I don't understand why CT does not sell "green dot" type systems. From what I know more powerful lasers are now available to the US public.

Rusty

steelhead
September 16, 2006, 12:27 PM
Green laser technology hasn't advanced enough to be put into a very small reliable package (grips, guide rod, etc) and they are still very power hungry. If you look at the Chickety China green lasers, on ebay, they work great until they are subjected to recoil. The Aimshot green lasers are better but are still huge and cost $400+.

If you go to the CTC website, and search their forum, you will find a more detailed technical explanation of the problems, with green lasers, in their current state of development.

black bear
September 16, 2006, 01:14 PM
tuckerdog 1,

I have two lasergrips, one in my Colt Gov't and another in my S&W Chief Special.

I can do thing with them that I can not do with iron sights, I can shoot from the hip and HIT. I can shoot behing barricades without exposing myself as long as I have a little hole or crack to look from. (Like from behind a semi-opened door)

As I don't use my pistol at eye level, I avoid the tunnel vision common with iron sights, the laser is quicker that using sights and I can hit with them in semi-darkness, when I can not see regular sights.

The Colt is next to one of my BOREALIS 1050 lumens flashlights (an eye scorching light) I pity anybody that try to go against this combination.

Here is a picture of the Colt and laser grips and the BOREALIS 1050 lumens and also the Black Bear 678 (720 lumens).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/blackbear11784/pistolFlash.jpg

Regards
black bear

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