[bg226]

One pattern I have seen is that users will buy a 9mm pistol and practice with standard pressure loads. Then they put +P loads in it for defense.

I think practicing with standard pressure loads would not help someone shoot +P any better.

In this case, wouldn't moving up to .40 S&W make more sense?

[timothy75]

Its not as big of difference as you might think. For example I shoot 110gr WWB for practice and one time I shot 8 rounds of my carry mag loaded with CorBon 115gr+p before I realized I grabbed the wrong mag! I know what your saying but in 9mm its not that significant. 38 wadcutters and 125gr 357mag however I'm with you all the way.

[browningguy]

I don't think it's a big deal. When you "need" to shoot the +p, you'll never notice the small additional recoil. Having said that my normal carry gun is a .40.

[Manedwolf]

I've never noticed much of a difference, but then, my 9's are a Sub-2000 and big Taurus PT92, so recoil is negligible in any case. :D

+P costs a lot more and is a lot rougher on the gun, especially with a standard recoil spring.

So using standard saves money on a lot of fronts.

[Chupacabra]

It kind of depends.

I was at the range a couple weeks ago and discovered (much to my surprise!) that there is little difference in felt recoil between Winchester White Box 115grain and DoubleTap 124grain +P. I thought the DoubleTap load would punish me, but it was actually quite pleasant! The biggest difference was the noise.

I also noticed that Remington UMC 115grain is not loaded as hot as Winchester. Shot side by side, you can definitely tell the difference. Also, Fiocchi is a little hotter than both. Their standard FMJ load isn't advertised as +P, but maybe it should be.

That being said, I'll practice with whatever is available at the time. Practice is practice. I feel comfortable with standard and +P loads. The difference isn't huge for 9mm IMO.

[hotpig]

Felt recoil is subjective. I shoot mostly Ranger 127+P+ and 147gr ammo. I could not tell you what I was shooting at the time.

The 9mm in my opinion has a lot of "snap" to its recoil. I prefer the 45acp since I perceive less recoil than the 9mm thus I shoot much better with it.

[gudel]

I use Rem GS 124gr +p in my USP9. What recoil? ;)

[pablo45]

In my town police are issued federal +P+ 9mm and that has been a great round for them. They are ranked 3rd in the nation for responding with lethal force and are one of the top le agencies in the country as far as training. The last i heard the stat's on this ammo through the police was that 80% of the subject's shot with this ammo out of a glock17 would drop immediately and that 85% shot with this ammo never commit another crime again. So in my opinion i choose the +P+ 9mm over the .40s&w with these stat's.

[jlh26oo]

I think practicing with lower power ammo still helps; not to the extent of practicing with the exact load you carry (which should be done some as well).

But practice is practice. I not even so sure kmk678gc trigger time isn't helping everything else period*.


*AAAYMFMMFV

[Prince Yamato]

Some people talk of the 9mm +P loads like they're the greatest thing since, well I dunno. I finally shot +P out of my Beretta 92 and it was like the most anti-climactic thing I've ever done. I expected this massive explosion and all I got was a little white flame out of my barrel. It was massively disappointing. Yes, the bullets move a little faster. Yes there's a little more kick. No, it's not like, "oh my gosh, +P is so amazing"

[Manedwolf]

Some people talk of the 9mm +P loads like they're the greatest thing since, well I dunno. I finally shot +P out of my Beretta 92 and it was like the most anti-climactic thing I've ever done. I expected this massive explosion and all I got was a little white flame out of my barrel. It was massively disappointing. Yes, the bullets move a little faster. Yes there's a little more kick. No, it's not like, "oh my gosh, +P is so amazing"

I think the benefit is more an invisible one, in the increased speed. If you're using a carbine, it's definitely a significant boost. Cor-bon 115gr +P out of a carbine gets quite a speed boost, and I've heard the GECO +P lightweights do as well.

[Patton21]

The advantage of +P is that the bullet is moving faster and thus has the potential for greater expansion. If you look at the data, the +P 124 Gold Dot will expand slightly more then the standard pressure. You also get a hair more penetration. All in all, there is little difference and it comes down to a pyschological comfort with +P over standard pressure.
The 147 gr. 9mm has the same or better ballistics performance then a +P 124. However, a lot of people dont like the 147 because it is slower and produces less energy. Name calling is fine, I guess, but not on The High Road. That is why the line with it in it was removed..Thanks.

[Lone_Gunman]

What does the 9mm +P cartridge have in common with the Swedish pneumatic penis enlarger?

Think about it, and you can figure it out.

[gudel]

What does the 9mm +P cartridge have in common with the Swedish pneumatic penis enlarger?


why do you think it's similar like the 45ACP and .500SW? It just has to be a bigger cartridge than the rest of the world!

[atblis]

is a marketing scam.
Same case
Same powders
Same primers
Same bullets
Load it to original/euro 9x19 specs (the point is it really doesn't cost them any more to make it)
call it +P
Double Price
There are a few exceptions to this of course.

[miko]

The +P refers to increased pressure. Increased pressure does not necessarily mean increased velocity – at least not in every barrel. In any case, +P round is not necessarily more of the same powder. It may be more of the faster powder.
The lack of fireball at the end of the barrel is good, not bad. The large fireball just means the wasted powder burns outside of the barrel.

Not only does practice with regular is good for +P, the practice with 22 or even wax bullets is good for 9mm +P and the best of all is plenty of dry-fire. Any revolver guy knows that target (light load) 38 is a good basic practice even for 357 Magnum, let alone 38 +P. Recoil is felt by a shooter after the bullet has left the barrel. Where ballistics is concerned, the point of impact shifts a bit but that’s all.

miko

[Steve C]

I think practicing with standard pressure loads would not help someone shoot +P any better.

Shooting practice is about developing, maintaining and honing the skills needed to shoot accurately. Practice should be about developing trigger squeeze (control), sight alignment, breathing control, proper hold, recovery, repeatability and site acquisition. Doesn’t matter what ammo you use, doesn’t matter what gun you use, doesn’t matter what caliber you use, they all should be shot in the same way to get the most accurate results.

[bg226]

+P
is a marketing scam.
Same case
Same powders
Same primers
Same bullets
Load it to original/euro 9x19 specs (the point is it really doesn't cost them any more to make it)
call it +P
Double Price
There are a few exceptions to this of course.

I'm not sure about the claim that Euro-spec 9mm is equivalent to +P. The use of +P ammunition is not recommended in my Euro guns.

[atblis]

CIP maximum for 9mm is ~38,000 (different testing procedures so...)
SAAMI +P max is 38,500 psi

+P is a crock.

[robertbank]

On one of the forums I read where a guy Chronoed standard and +P loadings and found them to have the same velocity. I shoot 9MM all the time, in my case mostly my own cast bullets. Shucks my paper targets don't seem to notice the difference, aside from more recoil and as somebody mentioned that doesn't necessarily translate into significantly more velocity.

Fellow gave me some Norinco ammo he wanted shot off and it had some snap. 125 gr bullets averaged velocity 1244 fps. about 140 fps faster than my cast loadings of 4.7 gr of Unique.

Nothing really special other than more felt recoil.

Take Care

Bob

[atblis]

Why? Manuals say lots of things. Like no handloads/reloads etc. etc.
You wouldn't happen to have a SIG would you?

[buttrap]

My P-38 wont run on US ammo unless its +P. Up till the M-9 there was no SAMII spec on 9mm in the US at all, some euro .380 ammo was actully faster stuff. But now that they make so many alum frame 9mm guns its pretty much loaded down.

[innerpiece9]

length of barrel plays a MAJOR roll..

I dont see +p ammo as a needed improvement in effect on target..

Winchester Silvertip Hollow points, time for time are some of the most effective preformers... Im speaking based on tests, not opinion..

it IS important to consistantly train with the same exact load you carry. ignorance or a tight budget will tell you otherwise..
accuracy changes, handeling changes, muzzleflash changes, follow-up changes... it all changes. thats a FACT!

ip9

[45shooter]

I carry my 9mm pistols loaded standard Federal 115gr JHP a.k.a. 9BP.
I use this ammo in everything from Hi-Power to P7M8 for past 20 years.
I don't know if +P and +P+ ammos works any better but I don't think extra 100-150 fps will make that much difference.

I guess I'm too old to know any better.