[MainFrameSoldier]

http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/police/batons/expandable.php

How would one of these be to carry around in the holder attached to your belt?

[Giddytrace]

If you can't carry a knife for legal reasons where you live, these probably aren't legal there either. In terms of effectiveness, people who know how to use a baton properly can use them in a pretty devastating fashion. It's not a gun, but it probably gives you a better chance than bare fists.

[10-Ring]

What are your local laws re: batons? In CA, it's a no no :(

[SAG0282]

If you can't carry a knife for legal reasons where you live, these probably aren't legal there either.

+1

Don't forget good "weapons of opportunities", like pens that make exceptionally good stabbing tools, etc. Innocuous and purposeful but also quietly versatile.

[Geronimo45]

Just an average wooden cane - runs about 15 bucks. Takes a load off of sore feet, to boot. Don't add lead weights or anything, that can get you in trouble. You can take the rubber tip off if you like. Get one at any pharmacy. Does just about everything a baton can do, and it's innocuous.

[carpettbaggerr]

How would one of these be to carry around in the holder attached to your belt? It would be clumsy and uncomfortable. And very obvious to any observer.

However, you could easily carry one in the waistband of your pants, sliding it down at a 45 degree angle along the crease of your hip. And it's hard to see, even if you tuck your shirt in -- if you blouse the shirt slightly. It completely disappears beneath any untucked shirt. :)

[tellner]

Is that an ASP in your pocket or are you just happy to see me? :neener:

[JShirley]

A small flashlight can be used effectively, and won't get you in trouble if spotted.

J

[MainFrameSoldier]

Well since I am in Ca, I guess I can't have one of these either.

****ed up laws man..

Anyone have any other ideas besides pens or flashlights?

[Gord]

Anyone have any other ideas besides pens or flashlights?

This isn't High Road, I guess... but dude, just carry a knife.

Nobody's going to care about your pocketknife, especially if you aren't waving it around all day. If nobody can see it, nobody can notice it, and on the off-chance you do something to warrant a meeting with Officer Friendly, I doubt he's going to haul you off to juvie for having a pocketknife.

I've had mine clipped to my pocket every day since I was 15, and I'll be damned if someone is going to tell me I can't carry a valuable and frequently-used tool around with me because I might randomly go berserk and massacre the entire town with my 3.5" semi-serrated blade. Ooh, scary. :rolleyes:

If you're only going to use it for self-defense, get yourself a Swiss Army Knife or something, pocket it, and don't give it a second thought unless you need it.

[JR719]

Kubaton key ring. I know these are a little large for keys, but they do serve a purpose. There is training for these things, just a short stick really, but can be devistating if you know how to use it. If they are ok in your state, do a little reading on them and you'll see what I mean.

[JShirley]

Get...a...small...flashlight. Study how to use a yarawa stick/ eta/eda koppo, and then practice.

Legal. Practical. Effective.

Knives are over rated for defensive use, anyway. Mostly by people who have too much time on their hands, and too little experience.

[Sharpdogs]

Carry one of these https://edcdepot.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=7&products_id=17 It's both a kubaton and a flashlight. You can always just carry a mini maglight. They are just as good as a kubaton. Maglight just released their new model with the LED light. Initial reports are positive.

[AF_INT1N0]

.....I'll be damned if someone is going to tell me I can't carry a valuable and frequently-used tool around with me because I might randomly go berserk and massacre the entire town....


+1
Also a good argument for carrying a gun.

When It comes down to it your screwed if you do or if you don't in the PRK. You take down an AK weilding Jihadist with a FunNoodle and the DA will say something along the lines of don't you think you could have used harsh language??

The only difference is whether you listen to the laws and possibly die at the hands of some protected criminal, or get in trouble and keep your life. (God I can't wait for my Orders to drop so I can leave this Communist S!@# hole!)

The point is to be armed. It's Your choice how, it's your life. The Cal Dept of Justice won't loose any sleep over failing to protect you, but you might.

[tellner]

Ninja, the police might not care about the pocket knife out in the world. Schools are a whole different thing. Many (most?) districts have a zero *spit* tolerance policy towards knives of any sort.

[Cosmoline]

I'd strongly advise a hickory or (true) blackthorne walking stick. They are fearsome weapons, and pack way more punch than the ninja sticks or batons. Plus they aren't seen as weapons but walking aids.

[tellner]

If you carry a cane make sure you keep the rubber tip on it. And, if possible, have a note from a doctor saying that you need it. If you're a minor this is going to be a lot more difficult to pass off.

[MainFrameSoldier]

Im 15, so it would be odd to have a walking cane with me.

Im thinking about just getting saying **** it and just keep the knife. I would rather spend a few years in juvie then forever in the ground.

[tellner]

My advice is to think very long and hard before doing this. Unless there's something really unusual about your life your chances of being in a deadly force encounter in the next three years are very, very small. Your chances of getting in trouble with the Law are much higher. These days it isn't juvenile hall you have to worry about. It's getting tried as an adult and spending time in real adult jails and having a record that will prevent you from ever owning guns.

It's all a question of costs and benefits. A wise man always considers these things.

[TMM]

As i recall, you can carry knives in PRK, right? or perhaps it's because you're younger?

Again, i second the cane. who gives if you're 15?

"i accidentaly hit my foot on the doorframe the other day so my foot hurts, and after walking a while i get tired"

I may carry a cane soon for that purpose. my parents will probably think i'm crazy though.

~tmm

[Geronimo45]

I don't think there's any need for a medical excuse for a cane. I use one because I get sore feet after walking a lot. I'm not yet thirty, and I'm not a cripple. If nothing else, you can mash elevator buttons and push open doors with it. Say you're trying to get your handicap sticker, and that this is your first step in that direction. Plenty of clever responses.

[hso]

Our young friend has already asked about carrying knives in a post at Strat/Tact and was referred to the Cali state laws on weapons (http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=220789). I expect he read the entire statute to better understand what his legal options were.

He already knows he can carry a folder, but because he's a highschool student he knows he can't carry it in school with the 0-tolerance rules.

He seems to have heeded the advice that a baton will trump a knife. Good for him!

He can't legally carry a baton, collapsable baton or club under Cali law.

He needs to listen to John Shirley and others who are telling him that there are good ways to carry defensive tools without making it obvious that he is carrying a defensive tool.

He should seek out some training in the use of defensive tools.

He should spend a little time reading in this forum all the sneaky, devious, underhanded things we have discussed on ways to defend ourselves with something other than a gun. :evil: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=218615 http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=215697

Flashlight = baton in the right circumstances

Smaller flashlight = kubaton

caribiners and webbing = sap

caribiners = brass knuckles

brain = weapon, not tool = weapon

The world around you is full of 'tools' for you to use.

[Gord]

If he's looking for something to carry in school, then he's SOL either way - zero tolerance is zero tolerance and you can be busted for anything the school administration feels like busting you for. Did you know that apparently, a protractor is a "stabbing implement"? Yeah, I had some words for the vice principal about that too. :rolleyes:

I assume he has access to pens, pencils and various other pointy yet benign objects that he can use in a pinch. Beyond that, there's not much he can carry that wouldn't potentially get him busted under zero tolerance. Remember the guy a ways back who was expelled for having a butter knife - in the bed of his pickup - in the school parking lot?

If he's just "out in the world" a knife is not a problem, especially if it stays in his pocket. I fail to see, Tellner, how he is at "much greater risk of getting in trouble with the law". As bad as Kalifornia is, they aren't conducting random stop-and-searches... yet.

School or not, it's his responsibility to weigh the risks and decide for himself what and when he wants to carry. Zero tolerance isn't gonna keep him any safer than murder laws will, and both are ignored by those who seek to cause others harm.

[TimboKhan]

Kubaton key ring. I know these are a little large for keys, but they do serve a purpose. There is training for these things, just a short stick really, but can be devistating if you know how to use it

You got the devastating part right. For "fun", I once let my ex-inlaw who was a cop work me with a kubotan and I wanted to cry almost immediatly. His department also used these nunchaku-type devices in lieu of asps and the traditional billy-club, and I have never felt such pure, dazzling pain in my life.

[tellner]

Ninja, I was talking about at school - which will get him in serious trouble - and carrying illegally. Cali has some strange laws about what constitutes "concealed" and what is permissible. If he gets it just a little wrong he could be in real trouble. I'd strongly recommend he find out what the laws actually are, not just what he thinks would be reasonable.

[hso]

Todd,

In Cali he can carry any size folder he can find as long as he doesn't take it into proscribed places like school or courthouses.

All,

The unique problem is that he's in school most of the time so he can't carry a knife in any practical sense. He's better off with impact or improvised tools since that's what is available to him most of the time. He needs to learn to use those same tools because they are what's going to be available to him most of the time. But more important than all this he needs to learn to use his head and exercise good judgement.

MFS,

I don't know anything about you. I don't know your circumstances. I don't know if you're some dumb kid from the burbs who's seen too many movies or played too much Grand Theft Auto (or whatever it is now) or if you're a great young man with good grades and great judgement in a bad neighborhood or if you're stuck in a gang. Not knowing that, I'm reluctant to give particular advice. We all are and should be because you're a minor and we don't know you or your circumstances. You should be able to defend yourself against the real dangers your face, but you should also understand the grave responsibility of carrying lethal weapons. Try to fill in some blanks for us.

[1911JMB]

I have never been trained in the proper way to use a belt as a weapon, but I have heard many people say that a big leather belt makes an effective weapon. Add a big old buckle, and I'd guess that would make it even more potent.

[WiLLtallica]

Back in the Passaic/Paterson area of NJ a lot of kids carried knives, some small guns, brass knuckles, and once in a blue moon a paintball marker. In one case this kid took a tippman 98c out of his backpack, and shot another kid in the back of the head in the middle of class. Even so, I have never herd of 1 stabbing, or shooting, so no body is stupid enough to use them with exception of that kid who wasn't on his meds that day.

[c_yeager]

Crazy idea:

Join the wrestling team (if you don't have one, any "full contact" sport, like football for example, will do) and a decent "practical" (the kind where you engage in live practice) martial arts club. You don't absolutely *need* weapons to defend yourself; besides, learning fighting skills is going to be a hell of a lot more useful than a knife even if you could carry one.

[bad LT]

When entering non-permissive environments (schools, court houses, etc.), I remove the pocketknife from my right front pocket and replace it with a large, steel pen.

It is wide enough to get a good grip on, sturdy, and "pointy."

I would guess it is more effective of a defensive weapon (in most hands) than the pocket knife.

[dragongoddess]

The ordinary tool box has wonderful tools for self-defense. Hammers, screwdrivers and such.

[WiLLtallica]

c_yeager

Join the wrestling team (if you dont have one, any "full contact" sport, like football for example, will do) and a decent "practicle" (the kind where you engage in live practice) martials arts club. You dont absolutely *need* weapons to defend yourself, besides learning fighting skills is going to be a hell of a lot more useful than a knife even if you could carry one.

That's actually the answer. My best friends were heavy weight kick boxers, and wrestlers. They really help me out with defending myself.

[Clean97GTI]

hso, I really hope you aren't advising those gloves as a weapon.
Those are really for riding motorcycles and you'll hurt your hand more punching with those, than without. I know, I wear a similar type quite frequently (being a rider myself) and tried them out on my heavy bag. It hurt the knuckles and doesn't allow you to close a fist solidly enough to avoid injury in a real punch.

I second the wrestling idea. Learn a few pain compliance techniques and you'll be set.

[hso]

Thanks for testing those, Clean97GTI. I'll remove the suggestion.

[Flopsy]

I have a steel expandable baton, and I used to carry it on my belt concealed under the tail of my shirt. Problem is, that's a concealed weapons violation under the law in my state, so technically carrying that baton wasn't legal.

However, I can and did get a permit to carry a gun, carrying the gun is legal, carrying the baton is not. It never made any sense to me that I COULD get a permit to carry a lethal weapon, but NOT for a non-lethal weapon. Since carrying the gun is legal and the baton isn't, I just carry the gun now.

But that issue aside? The things are great. Had to draw mine once.

I completely disagree with the person who said it would be clumsy and uncomfortable. My scabbard would hang from the belt at 4 o'clock and secure it down in the outermost side of the back pocket. At that spot I wouldn't sit on it either.

[chipp]

tip when you think of choosing your weapon of defense, picture a 300 lb man with one of those foreheads that your afraid of breaking your fist on ,attacking you.
if the weapon starts to look small pick something else.

[chipp]

15!? next time I'll read the hole thread before
I reply. Glad I didn't write what I was going to.

[AF_INT1N0]

Oops.. Didn't realize you were 15. Oh well your kinda screwed with the way schools are now.

Maybe could learn a martial art. If it makes you feel any better the adults in Kalifornia aren't much better off.

[CWL]

Y'all, I have to remind everyone that the law treats minors differently than adults. What is perfectly legal for an adult to carry (CA or anywhere) does not have to apply to a minor. I believe that LEOs have lots of discretion and it is not just limited to a zero-tolerance area.

Items like spray paint and permanent markers can get a minor in trouble depending on time and location.

Advice for batons and ASPs, screwdrivers and canes can really get this guy in trouble.

[bender]

my wife's high school teenage son (not my son) was at school, in a bathroom with a couple other guys, not doing anything... and a teacher walked in, smelled smoke in the air... (they weren't smoking), searched their backpacks for cigarettes, and found a metal ball with tacks on it in my wife's son's backpack. It was just something he made, and he said he forgot all about it being in there, but the school called it a weapon (a mace) and suspended him and put a felony on him...

he was in the wrong place at the wrong time...