[clone]

looking into geting either a Ruger KP95DC or a EAA Witness PS 9mm. first and formost i want accuracy.......... and reliability. which is better?

[jlh26oo]

Can't testify for the witness, but Ruger P series gives you solid reliability and accuracy; moreso for the price. Much will depend shooter's hand fit etc.

Good move on NOT making this a poll btw. I would have just now voted ruger, solely based on the fact that I like ruger p-series lol, without ever having shot the other. That's people for you!

[EdLaver]

I agree with jlh26oo completly. Out of the two I would go with the Ruger. Now if you really want the Eaa, why not look at a CZ75? Almost the same, and they are alot more accurate than Rugers in my opinion and are in the same price range.

[bestseller92]

I know nothing about the EAA, but my Ruger P95DC has been 100% reliable since I got it in 1998, and if I do my part it'll shoot into 2" at 20 yards with cheapie practice ammo. 'Nuff said.

[MachIVshooter]

If you want a 9mm, I'd skip the Witness and spend a few extra $$ on an actual CZ. I love my Witness 10mm, but for 9x19 or .40, I think the original CZ is the way to go. Nicer finish and better customer service.

[clone]

the ruger KP95DC is priced at $240 from CDNN (likely $270 OTD). i went looking around today at a few shops i found a CZ 75B NIB for $325. so is the cz really worth the extra $?

[Frog48]

I can only speak for the Ruger. Its kinda bulky, and it certainly aint pretty... but its accurate and VERY reliable. It should last forever. I think that accuracy and reliability virtues trump the appearance and size. I would definitely recommend it.

[hso]

I'd go with CZs or CZ-clones like the Witness or Baby Eagle any day.

[Janos Dracwlya]

My only experience is with the Witness, and it was all good. One of my ex-roommates had an EAA Witness in .40 S&W and it was a great shooter and totally reliable. It needed a stronger recoil spring - it threw empties 20+ feet outdoors - but the recoil itself was fine. I was going to get a 9 mm Witness, but they passed the AWB about that time and I went with a S&W 915 because magazines were much easier to come by.

[Darkker]

I used to own a P90. My buddy has still has the Ruger that you want.... I didn't like the accuracy of my paticular Ruger. It was dismal to say the least, and if not REGULARLY cleaned(100-150 rounds) it was a Jam-O-Matic. The 9 that my Buddy has, bought it for $150 because they guy didn't think after the three boxes of ammo he put through it, that the fouling would prevent it from cycling. I don't have the little Witness, I have the Full sized 10mm. I have routinely shot 300-400 rounds straight through it with no cleaning, and no issues.
Around me, you can't get a CZ for anything less than 500-frogskins. The witnesses can be had for 3-400-banannas. As far as the CZ/Witness argument. The refinment of the witness is easily as well finished as the Ruger offerings. The CZ is just more of a spit-shined version.

As far as customer service goes. I am what is known as a "Gun-Whore" I change them like socks. I have no sentimentality attachments. The ONLY times I have come accross ANYONE personally who has had the need to use "Customer Service" was people who's guns "didn't work". CS sent them new guns, same problems. So I cleaned out the dirt and cosmoline and no Problems. I know this is going to piss off more people than post here, but that is my personal experience.

[Hazzard]

Hold on! I'm still trying to do a currency conversion between frogskins and banannas!:D

[RooK]

Janos, a heavier spring won't help the brass. Take it from me and my 10mm Witness.

I suggest before you buy a Witness to handle them personally. All new ones are made on a large frame, and thus have a large grip that may or may not suit you. Both it and the Rugers are almost identical in accuracy, I'd give a nod to the Ruger for reliability. If you can pony up the extra cash for CZ, do it. You won't be disappointed.

[GlockNation]

Skip the 9mm and go straight to the Ruger p90. My experience with the P90 was exact opposite of Darkker. I found the P90 to be an unbelievably soft shooting tack driver. And only 33 ounces empty. It was originally designed to handle the 10mm, but was realeased as a 45 at the last minute due to Ruger's thinking that the 10mm was on the way out.

What a gun!!

[bestseller92]

Speaking of Ruger .45s, you can get used P97s at very good prices, and I love mine.

[clone]

i have the 45 problem covered ;).

im choosing a (high capacity) 9mm for a "range gun/woods carry" and maybe a CCW, when i get my CCW permit. i also have big hands so i have decided on these high capacity's for comfort reasons. some smaller guns i cant shoot worth a darn. im not to concerned with looks, mainly that its accurate and reliable out of the box.

iv handled the Ruger and CZ and like the feel of both. the EAA i was told was a CZ clone so it should feel alot like the CZ correct? iv also heard some odd things about the EAA's customer support, but hopefully i wont need it if its a good gun..... right?

[TimboKhan]

I am a well known defender of the Ruger faith, although my main love is for the P90. Chances are really high that you will experience very good performance from the Ruger. If I happen to find an P89 at a good price, which I just like better than the 95, I will buy it. Chances are also pretty good that the EAA will perform, but my experience with them is zero, so don't take my word for it. As for the CZ, it sort of doesn't get any better than that. Maybe there are other guns that are close to or as good as the CZ 75, but I don't know of any that are better, although Hi-Power fans might argue the point.

All that being said, I have a pair of Taurus PT 99's, and I really, really like them, but then I was always a fan of the M9 when I was in the USMC.

[weregunner]

Clone, I have 2 P95s and my daughter has the CZ 85. Both have good accuracy and dureability. Haven't had a bobble with either make.Will your hand fit the double stacks well? My fingers are short and stubby. The Rugers grip is just enough to be comfortable and useful. Couldn't handle the CZ well but my daughter is 3 to 4 inches taller and long thin fingers. CZ fits her well. I have no experience with Witness pistols. I agree with what others have said about trying everything including a Witness if you can. Some threads here have been both anti Witness and the next pro. Every company goes through a rough stretch and then gets the gliches corrected. Give them all a spin. Good luck and let us know when you narrow down the choices or buy one.

[MachIVshooter]

the EAA i was told was a CZ clone so it should feel alot like the CZ correct? iv also heard some odd things about the EAA's customer support, but hopefully i wont need it if its a good gun..... right?

Don't misread what has been written. The Witness (TZ-75) is a very good gun, but the Original CZ-75 is only a few bucks more and has a nicer finish and far better CS, should you need it. If you were looking for .38 Super, 10mm or .45ACP the Witness would definitely be the way to go. But for 9mm, I would opt for the CZ. Around here, Witness 9mm's average $369, while CZ-75's are about $409.

BTW, the Witness is made by Tanfoglio of Italy, a long-time gun maker with a solid reputation. EAA is the importer, and they are the problem. Also, when I refer to the CZ as having a better finish, this is only true for the base model Witness. The higher-end models (some of which are not imported) are very nice guns.

On the same note, you might check out the Baby Eagles. They are made by Tanfoglio, finished by IMI and imported by Magnum Research. They are Similar to the Witness, but offer some different features. The BE's have full-length frames, slide-mounted de-cock/safeties and use polygonal rifling (there are reports of some not having poly rifling, but all that I have encountered do). The BE also has a different grip countour, which some folks find more agreeable than the CZ/TZ. BE's in 9mm typically run about $425.

[mr.trooper]

Go with the CZ-75. you cant get them under $400 NEW at gunshows. IMO, there is no reason to buy a witness over the CZ unless you want it in something other than 9mm or 40S&W (like the 10mm, 38 super, or 45acp verisons). That being said, the 6" Witness hunter in 45acp has realy caught my eye!

I got my CZ 75 Semicompact for $370, NIB with all the accessories : Spare mag, speedloader, cleaning tools, and snap caps.

[RooK]

9mm for woods carry? Odd choice. I'd think the 10mm or a .45 with .45 Super loads would be better suited. Beyond small game up to coyotes, the 9mm is pretty limited. The other two can take down black bear and deer-sized game.

Also, when speaking of finishes, the CZ is nicer in that it has more classic, high polish blues and such to choose from. The Witness is more bland, but there are no machine marks or anything on my sample, it's a fine piece.

[JohnKSa]

My Witness was very accurate. Moreso than the Ruger autopistols I have owned.

But it had other problems. I sold/traded it and would not buy another.

If accuracy is your only goal then I would have to say the Witness is a better choice. If you want to look at the bigger picture, I'd say that the Ruger is a better buy.

[EdLaver]

Clone, I honestly think you would be alot happier with a CZ75 over both the EAA and the Ruger. It is a little bit more expensive but its well worth it. I have shot 5 year old CZ's with 1000's of rounds put through them and they still possess reliability, durability, and most important accuracy. Now on the concealment side, (if thats an option you want) they are bulky but with all the other positives that shouldnt be much of an issue.

[browningguy]

I would definately go for the EAA, that was the choice right, EAA or Ruger?

I have a Witness PS in 9mm that I've had since 1998, it's accurate and extremely reliable, don't know about customer service because I've never had need of it. A few months ago I picked up a Witness Elite Match in .40 S&W, absolutely the most accurate center fire pistol I have ever owned. Extremely well made, well finished, and with a really good trigger. At $399 there is no better pistol for under a grand or so.

A CZ is OK also, but you didn't ask about them, the Witness is more or less a knock-off of the CZ, just costs less money.

[Panthera Tigris]

I've owned a Witness and a P95. For that matter, also a CZ75. I ditched the Witness and CZ because I flat out did not like them. I only sold the Ruger because I could not conceal it well. I'll take the Ruger over anything EAA or CZ offer any day of the week.

[atblis]

Definitely Ruger. Simply because Ruger is a better company. EAA's customer service is horrorific.

[Longbow]

One more vote for the Ruger.

[MAGNUMMAN]

RUGER

[cooperv250]

1 More Ruger Vote

[clone]

well what about CZ or the Ruger? does the CZ reaaly have enough to warrent the higher price(more accurate or reliable)? keep in mind that im not worryed about looks or aftermarket parts and such, just the out of the box accuracy and reliability.

but as it stands iv seen nuthin that warrents the higher price of the CZ over the Ruger.

[kir_kenix]

I really like the Ruger auto's. you should deff. get both guns out on a range somewhere and try them both out before deciding what you want. I will say on the negative side for the Ruger that the trigger pull pretty much scared the hell out of me when I shot it for the first time...but after a few mags i got more comfortable and liked it. I purchased a p94 in .40 s&w last week and put about 850 rounds through it in 3 days without a single problem (the only jam-up was while my buddy was shooting and I'm pretty sure he was limp wristing the piece). My dad bought a CZ last year for christmas and I must say it is a beautiful gun for the price he nabbed her for. she isnt quite as rugged as the ruger, but she is prettier and i could pbly group better with it then the ruger...but for just outstanding reliability, customer service, and ease of use i would go w/ the ruger. but hey, i'm kinda biased so you should get both of the guns out on the range and find out for yourself.