[another okie]

I'm a beginning reloader. So far all I've done is .38s for target shooting. I just bought dies for .45 ACP.

I'd like a light, accurate load that will cycle a 1911. My Speer manual has several choices. What are your preferences? I would like something that's pretty clean and will be effective in a light load. (I've got some Unique, but I'm getting low, so I'm willing to try about any powder for which there are published loads.)

And is a SWC or HBSWC reliable in a 1911, or do I need to get FMJs or something else?

[ocabj]

The Speer loads are a bit on the hot side I think.

My current load is 4.0gr Clays with 200gr SWC WCB Plated at 1.230" COL and .471" crimp on a 18 lb recoil spring. I used to use a standard 16 spring, but I had feed lips on brass getting damaged. The 18 solved the problem. Note that a COL of 1.250 with SWC is usually the norm, but some guns (such as mine) need a shorter COL to feed SWC properly. Clays is considered one of the cleaner burning powders, but it is probably the worst to meter out of a powder measure.

If you can meter Universal Clays very consistently, I'd say stick with Universal Clays. Universal is also a good .45ACP powder.

[Zak Smith]

I just started reloading .45ACP - have loaded about 1200 rounds so far on my .45 SDB.

Upon recommendation from a couple friends, I'm using Titegroup. It's cheap at about $12.50 + tax at the local place... about half the price of the VV powders.

200gr West-Coast plated round-nose,
1.260",
misc. cases,
CCI or Winchester primers,

4.7gr Titegroup is good for plinking, about 730fps (145PF) in my gun.

5.1gr Titegroup is my IPSC load, just barely making major at about 833fps (167PF) in my gun. Has much less recoil than S&B 230gr FMJ (193PF).

-z

[Mike Irwin]

I use WW 231 almost exclusively.

[Steve Smith]

200 gr lead SWC w/ 4.6gr of W231 is a light load, 5.0 is usually very accurate, and 5.4 will make IDPA power factor. Win standard primer.

[oscar]

5.0 of 231 and a cast 200 grain swc is my standard load. You can use Unique if you prefer, but I think 231 meters easier and is a bit cleaner.

[Jim Watson]

Without quoting pet loads, here are some guidelines that have worked for me.

For light loads, use a fast burning powder. Bullseye, 231, WST, Clays, Titegroup, HP38, 700X, PB, N310, N320 are all suitable. If you have use of a chronograph, start with a book load and adjust for a 200 gr bullet at 700 fps or a 185 at 750 fps; more if that is what it takes to function your gun. Or just use the lightest load that will function the gun with a standard recoil spring. I have not seen as good results with slow powders like Unique or Universal. They leave more fouling and give more velocity variation. If you try Unique and get good accuracy, that is more important, so don't automatically discount it. But don't worry too much about powder. It is easy to have five different cans with 15 ounces left in each and nothing proven.

Commercial cast SWCs of the #68 shape - the long nosed bullet originally designed by Hensley and Gibbs - have a fair chance of feeding in a stock gun. Others can be problematical. I have never had good luck with the plated SWCs that look similar, and the stubby bullets shaped like factory match can be a real problem.

Overall length (OAL) of 1.25" with a #68 is a place to start, not gospel. Molds and barrels differ. For best accuracy with a cast SWC, load one with about .020" of the shoulder showing over the brass. Drop it in the chamber (out of the gun.) If the rim drops below the barrel hood by more than a fuzz, load the next one that much longer. You will then have the round headspaced firmly between the shoulder of the bullet and the origin of the rifling and the casehead back against the breechface. Good for accuracy, not recommended for maximum loads and/or jacketed bullets.

If a #68 style SWC won't feed, you can have the gun "throated" to take it. Or you can shoot something else. There are 200 grain roundnose bullets from Laser Cast (cast and lubed), Precision (cast and coated) and Ranier (plated.) Berrys makes a plated 185 grain roundnose hollowbase. And don't forget the hollowpoints. Most now are designed for easy feeding. The USMC match load is (or was) a 185 gr Nosler JHP and 4.1 grains of N310. A British report (back when a free Englishman might own a pistol) said the Sierra JHC was more accurate than their Match bullet. The bulk Remington JHP is ok and costs less.

With any jacketed or plated bullet, you must be careful to avoid bullet setback against the feed ramp. They are smaller diameter than cast and slicker. Be sure you have a small enough sizing die, small enough expander, and noticeable but not excessive taper crimp. I have gone to canneluring the brass at the base of the bullet to prevent setback after some malfunctions that way. Probably would have blown up a .40.

[mparris71]

Just to be different,I have had good results with AA#5 in both 230 ball and 200 SWC #68 style mold. Jim's Post is right on.

[DAL]

3.8 grs. of Clays under a 200 gr. LRNFP bullet. It's quite accurate in my 1911.
DAL

[caz223]

I use unique, but I loaded 1000 rounds at a time, and didn't write my loads down.
My .45 shooting has slowed down, since I'm trying to get a good 9mm load.
Anyway, best I can recall, I used 6 grains of unique, CCI 300 primer, and a 200 grain XTP bullet. (1.240)
While not really a light load (It's almost +P), it shoots beautifully.
I think I have gone down to 5 grains with unique before.
I like 6 better. (Can't remember why for sure, though!)

[zeke]

Believe Jim Watson's advise is extremely good, would suggest loading the bullet without powder and primer, to test how it feeds. This is useful for any bullet being tried.

Like evryone else, have favorites for the 200 gn lswc Jim advises. 5.0 grams hp-38 for about 800 fps and 6.0 gns unique for about 870 fps from 5 in barrel.

Don't load too many at once, about 10 rounds of a new combination should be adequate to test. Might save ya some grief.

[blades67]

I use 6.0 grains of Unique under a Meister 200 grain SWC with a Winchester primer. C.O.L. is 1.250 inches.

[Steve in PA]

Sig P-220

.45cal - 230gr FMJ-RN (TnT Start bullets)
Rem cases
CCI LP Primers
Unique - 6.0gr
COL - 1.260"

Alliant web site puts it at 895fps/mv

[Frohickey]

I use 5.6grains of Unique behind 230gr West Coast plated round nose.

So far, no problems in function, though I think this is not a full power load. I think its under 800FPS, and I do get that funky gas leak on one side of the case, meaning that the case is not fully expanding to the chamber walls.

I use the same load for my 9mm. 5.6 grains of Unique, behind 115gr West Coast plated round nose. This gives close to 1200FPS, though I need to double-check.

I use the same load on my 40S&W too. 5.6grains of Unique, behind 180gr West Coast plated truncated round nose.

If I don't spill a drop of powder, I can get 10K loads out of a 8lb tub of Unique. Makes my completed cartridge cost easy to calculate. :D

[Zak Smith]

How does Unique compare to Titegroup in .45ACP in terms of cleanliness or lack thereof?

I use Unique in my plinking .44MAG loads (180/200gr @ 900-950fps) and it is quite dirty. TG in my .45ACP loads leaves the cases dirty, but the gun stays a little cleaner than I'd expect. (Neither come close to N320 in 9x19 which leaves the insides of the cases shiny!)

-z

[M2HMGHB]

I use Bullseye and 231. I switched to 231 as the Bullseye is a little too dirty for my liking, thats behind a 230FMJ from Midway, Magtech i think is the brand, not an excellent bullet but a great price and great for plinking.

[HSMITH]

200 grain SWC over 3.6 grains of Clays, mixed brass and whatever primer you prefer. 1.25 OAL. If you want it a little hotter you can safely increase the charge weight quite a bit.

IF your 1911 is fitted properly a SWC profile bullet is dead reliable. If not they will break your heart trying to get them to feed 100%.

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

The best most winning combination to win trophies is a 45acp 200 grain H&G 068 bullet from a California Saeco Meehanite mold in a lot of a thousand of the same hardness Lubed with Ca-Saeco Secret formula containing automotive STP in a GI case in a lot of at least a thousand of the same maker and year, using WW231 powder of the same large lot using only Federal or Winchester primers of the same lot # and loaded in a Star Progressive Reloader which has been used by more Champions than any other reloader since 1931.

For the same point of aim and the impact of a .32, .9mm, .38 or .45 bullet the larger diameter 45 makes a bigger hole and is more likely to cut a higher scoring ring than any other smaller caliber.

Load the largest lot of ammo that you can afford in the winter with every component identical and no matter when you fire them they will have the same point of impact with the same sight picture.

And fired from the best weapon you can afford.

The the past and future champions used the best equipment and components available.

Join the Winners Circle


John Paul

[Frohickey]

Unique used to be dirty, but now, since its been reformulated, its no more dirtier than the other powders out there.

My personal observation comparing me shooting my Unique loads vs a friend shooting their Titegroup loads is that the Titegroup loads have more smoke.

[Zak Smith]

All the Unique I have been using is the "New, Cleaner forumla!"

-z

[Frohickey]

I've noticed the same thing with 44Mag and Unique. Its dirtier than 45ACP and Unique.

Just like all powders, there is a range of pressure that Unique likes to be in to burn efficiently/cleanly. I think that in a 44Mag, Unique isn't in the pressure range that it wants to be in.

I've got to get a digital camera and do range photographs in a clear/still day to see the amount of smoke.

[Bacchus]

I noticed that a lot of people recommend the 200 gr bullet over the 230--why is that?

What's the difference in POI between the 230 and 200s, assuming a 25 yard zero?

[Zak Smith]

Bacchus,

I don't have good "BC" numbers for the different .45 bullets, but it shouldn't make too much difference at .45ACP velocities. Velocity will probably play a bigger role. If you reload, you should be able to get your 200gr handloads to match the POI of your 230gr loads at a certain distance.

As an example, assuming your pistol is sighted in at 25y with 230gr Gold Dots at 840fps, here's where some other loads would shoot:

_BC_ _MV_ 0 25 50 | YARDS
0.143 840 > -0.41 -0.01 -2.60 | > Proload 230gr (GD)
839 820 801 | fps, velocity

0.143 920 > -0.41 0.25 -1.74 | > Proload 230gr +P (GD)
919 895 871 | fps, velocity

0.153 840 > -0.41 -0.00 -2.77 | > 230gr FMJ
839 821 803 | fps, velocity

0.153 700 > -0.41 -0.70 -5.58 | > 230gr FMJ, slow
699 686 672 | fps, velocity


Note that the difference going from BC of 0.143 to 0.153 is only 0.17" at 50 yards!

The 200gr bullet will probably have a BC somewhere between the 230gr Gold Dot and the 230gr FMJ.

I've asked West Coast bullets what BC theirs have, but haven't received a reply yet.

-z

[Steve Smith]

Main reason is that 230 SWC is an odd duck bullet, whereas a 200 SWC is very common.

[ocabj]

185 SWC is usually used for bullseye shooting. 200 SWC and 230 RN/FMJ are typical action shooting rounds. I've never seen 230 SWC myself.

[caz223]

Yeah, 200 XTPs shoot the same POI for me as 230 hardball.

[Bacchus]

Zak and Others,
Thanks for the quick replies. I've also been thinking about getting into reloading the 45 and been wondering about the 200s and 230s. I think I can handle .17" at 50 yards!

[HSMITH]

If you guys want to see clean in a 45 ACP load shoot some Hodgdon Clays in a midrange to upper loading. You won't believe how clean it is until you try it. With jacketed bullets 500 rounds looks like you shot less than a magazine of commercial ball ammo.

[John Galt]

I used my friend's reloader & copied what he does. He used to shoot some IPSC and probably copied what the best of those guys were doing:

200grn SWC Molly coated.
Clays - I used the 10% under max from what the book recommended. I wanted a light load for target practice.

The SWC bullets are GREAT at cutting smooth holes in the paper. I've shot about 1000 rounds through my Kimber Gold Match and never had a feed problem. (Might have had 1 or 2 in the first 100 rds).

The factory 16# spring has worked fine with these reduce loads.

ps: My other friend just ordered me a Dillon 650. I've got nice friends!!!

[pdmcghinnis]

I shoot IDPA and IPSC with a 4" S&W 625 .45 revolver. I've taken to using 230grn lrn bullets to aid in the reload. The round profile just drops into the cylinder.

This bullet sits in front of 5.6gr of 231 and a Federal large pistol primer loaded to 1.275 OAL My only problem is that this round is dirty and I must scrub off the face of my cylinder between stages so that my cylinder will continue to close.

If I load the round hotter, say around 6 grains, would that possibly help the problem? Would reducing the OAL help?

I REALLY like 231 but am considering Titegroup or Clays as a fix as well.

[coorsleftfield]

pdmcghinnis,

Don't use titegroup in your 625. I have a 625 and with 4.2 gr titegroup, it makes the gun unusable pretty fast. My favorite
625 load is 3.5 clays and a 200gr RNFP.
Very clean and makes minor power factor in my 5", you may have to bump it up in your 4"

I would stay away from titegroup unless you're going to load it at max loads.

[BigG]

The best advice is get one or more reloading manuals and work up your own.

That said, Jim Watson has given good advice, as have others.

Bullseye will give reliable operation of a standard 5" government 45 at 3.5grains with a 200 or 230 grain lead bullet. Keep your ammo at standard overall length, which is 1.25" if I recall correctly.

Unique is a very accurate powder when you approach 6 grains with the same bullets.

[coorsleftfield]

Using bullseye and unique is like driving an 1960s car with a carburetor when there are 2003s available with fuel injection that give you way better gas milage, and run cleaner.

My advice, use a load book and a chrono, and use modern powders, like
clays, power pistol, others.

[Frohickey]

Using bullseye and unique is like driving an 1960s car with a carburetor when there are 2003s available with fuel injection that give you way better gas milage, and run cleaner.

If that is the case, then you must be the designer of the new 45Glock cartridge that is being bandied about. :barf:

[E357]

If I were still trying for "X-ring" shots at 50 yards. I would stick to "old fashioned" dirty Bullseye. For everthing else (in .45) Clays is just fine. Unique is sort of a jack-of-all-trades powder.

Elliot

[Master Blaster]

Some folks who shoot bullseye pistol at my club are now using Solo 1000, after dabbling with VhitaVoryouy N something or other.

They swear that it is accurate clean and soft shooting, whatever that means, since these folk have been shooting bullseye for about 2000 years between them (a couple are high master class) and they go to Perry every year, I take their word for it but I still use titegraoup for my blasting. I like 4.5 gr with a 200 LSWC,
Functions the gun seems clean and accurate.

Both new and old powders are chemically similar, all contain Nitroglycerin, nitrocellulose, etc.