[Rembrandt]

(Grasshopper) "Master...is it possible to have surgical accuracy and magnum power in one caliber, for one does not see magnum calibers used in precision shooting competitions"

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[rbernie]

300 Win Mag is used in many 1000yd competitions - it's not like it's inaccurate. Most competition shooting seems to favor firing the LEAST powerful round that will do the job, since recoil and blast take their toll after a while...

[Werewolf]

In a handgun my personal experience is that .44Mag is scary accurate in the right hands.

[SigfanUSAF]

In a handgun my personal experience is that .44Mag is scary accurate in the right hands

The late great grand master Elmer Keith should agree with that one:)

[Rembrandt]

Always wondered why benchrest, IPSC, bullseye, and even rimfire competitions magnum rounds are not prevelant.

Have experienced similar results with muzzleloaders, extra powder charges tend to make for larger groups. Cut the powder charge back and accuracy improves. Does this carry through into center/rimfire rounds?

[ChristopherG]

Always wondered why benchrest, IPSC, bullseye, and even rimfire competitions magnum rounds are not prevelant.

In IPSC, shooting fast is the name of the game. You shoot a round that meets the minimum required power level because more power equals greater recoil equals longer shot-to-shot recovery times. You COULD shoot a magnum in IPSC, and a few do--but not the folks who are highly competitive.

In bullseye, you have to shoot a .45 acp for at least one of three rounds of competition. But even when folks use a different centerfire gun for the second of the three rounds (the third is rimfire), they use a light-recoiling gun because of the timed rapid fire segment--again, recoil recovery time.

[Detritus]

Speaking with a focus on magnum RIFLE calibers, it is very much possible to build and have a rifle chambered for a magnum class cartridge, that makes itty bitty little groups at long distance. But when the name of the game is small groups at extened distance (instead of dumping max energy into a large or dangerous animal, which is the given design reason for most magnums) , it isn't until you go beyond 1,000 yrds (and you have to ask, how often are you likely to shoot that far) that "Standard" chamberings begin to be at a significant disadvantage. and some major drawbacks pop out when thinking Precision + magnum chambering.

First i must say that there IS a conditional exception to what i am about to say, the condition is competition shooting at 1,000 yards and the exception is this, at 1K certain magnums DO have an advantage that may or may not, depending on the shooter, outweigh the listed disadvantages. this is b/c best accuracy is attained by having your bullets arrive at the target at a speed in excess of Mach1, the transonic region and the shockwaves that form there are BAAAD for group consistency (not to mention tumbling bullets are a danger to pit personel). and 1k is about where many non-magnum rounds begin to enter the transonic portion of their flight. but as many competitors have found, rounds like .300 Win Mag, .375H&H, and .338 Lapua are still booking along safely above the sound barrier when they reach the 1,000 yard line and these are not excatly the most punishing of magnums anyway. but anywhere from 100 to 8-900 yards there is no real advantage to having a rifle that "maims at both ends".

Now the dis advantages of Magnums for precision work.

1. consistent repeatable "itty bitty groups" are a function not only of the rifle, but the rifleman as well. and the only real way to acheive the state of "rifleman capable of bringing max potential from, a rifle with that level of inherent accuracy" is to SHOOT IT and shoot it alot!
and by that i mean spending an exponentially larger amount of time behind the rifle than most shooters want to. not just hours upon hours "at the range" but hours upon hours "behind the gun". And most Magnum class chamberings when mated to rifles legal for many forms of competition, tend to not lend themselves well to the concept of firing 100+ rounds by one person in a day (least not without adverse effects on body and or technique ).

2. magnum caliber rifles tend to suffer accellerated barrel wear. so for many shooters the point where their skill starts to match the rifle's ability, is also the point when the barrel is begining it's downward slide accuracy wise. replacing barrels to maintain "surgical precision" can get expensive.

So when the target is closer than 1,000 yards magnums offer no significant advantage over "standard" chamberings. but can be limiting to your ability to acheive and maintain the level of accuracy you seek, compared to those same standard chamberings.
THAT is why magnums are a rarity in most rifle competitions where accuracy is the goal.

handguns, that's a whole other story, and others have covered that. but it still comes down to recoil.

[El Tejon]

*gong sounds* *El Tejon wakes up early performs Praying Mantis Exits Cave (with extra ammo and mags)*

You seek a false path, brasshopper. The true path lies within you and your qi. Use your qi to control the weapon, do not let the weapon control you.

Remember, as the Learned Elders of Benchrest say in the Four Classics of Accuracy: Short and fat is where it is at. However, this is just a rule of staff, it depends on the person. *gong sounds*

*El Tejon as Master Ching ching-Pow, nods head and strokes beard*

[Rembrandt]

*El Tejon as Master Ching ching-Pow, nods head and strokes beard*



Yes Master Po......I mean Master Pow. Say....aren't you suppose to be blind? Bet the other shooters run like the wind when they see you at the range.

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[Trebor]

"There are many calibers on the road to mastery. Seek the caliber best suited for the application at hand.

Now, grab the cartridge from my hand, Brasshopper, and your training shall be complete."

[James T Thomas]

In one of the ancient episodes the old master confides in youg grasshoper that mastery is only aquired after many thousands of repetitions.

You know, "wax on -wax off," or was that another discipline?

[Standing Wolf]

In a handgun my personal experience is that .44Mag is scary accurate in the right hands.

I believe the .44 caliber has an inherent accuracy edge over many others.

[280PLUS]

I saw a kid yesterday with a .341 Weatherby Magnum rifle and rounds. Man, therm is some BIIIIG bullets. Dwarfed my puny .308s. He said he can only take about 20 rounds at any given session before his shoulder has had enough.

[Zak Smith]

Given the same level of rifle/optic/shooter accuracy, an appropriate magnum rifle cartridge will provide more margin for ranging and wind-estimation error than a convention cartridge. For example, 7RM vs. 260 or 308. BC and MV are the name of the game.

[Nightcrawler]

Given the same level of rifle/optic/shooter accuracy, an appropriate magnum rifle cartridge will provide more margin for ranging and wind-estimation error than a convention cartridge. For example, 7RM vs. 260 or 308. BC and MV are the name of the game.

Which is one of the reasons NATO is adopting .338 Lapua Magnum sniper rifles to replace thier older .308s.

The US is going to a .308 autoloader with a 20 round magazine instead, opting for more "firepower". Wonder if the US military will field a .338 rifle as well?

[Zak Smith]

Let's hope...

[redneck2]

You know, "wax on -wax off," or was that another discipline?
They do that at the Beauty Parlor before swim suit season