Castle Doctrine


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Agent Z
May 12, 2003, 06:54 PM
We've read it. We know its there on the books somewhere. But now we cannot find it anywhere and do not know where to look.

A friend and I are trying to find the specific writings for the State of Florida's "Castle Doctrine" in relation to the fact that privately owned vehicle is an extension of the home. Just for the sake of having it in writing.

I'd like to have the entire wording of the whole thing if I could find it.

Been all over the Florida Dept of State web site looking.:banghead:

If any of you have the answer(s) to my search I would greatly appreciate the assistance.

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Chaz
May 12, 2003, 07:31 PM
Try packing.org (http://packing.org)

CZ-100
May 12, 2003, 08:48 PM
Quote and link from FL website

Lawful Use Of A Firearm For Defense
A license to carry a firearm is not a license to use it. Under Florida law, you can use deadly force only if you reasonably believe yourself or another person to be in danger of death or serious personal injury, or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony (such as rape, robbery or carjacking). There are two important concepts to remember: The first is the "Duty To Retreat"; this means that if you can avoid the danger by running away, then run away, no matter how you may feel that this affects your honor. The second is the "Castle Doctrine", which means that you do NOT have a "Duty To Retreat" when in your own home or place of business; you can stand your ground and defend your premises and possessions even if you could avoid personal danger by running away.

http://www.intellistar.net/~flynn/fla-gun.html

Just above
Reciprocity Information

Hkmp5sd
May 12, 2003, 09:05 PM
To my knowledge, Florida does not extend the castle doctrine to vehicles. You may carry a firearm in a vehicle without a CCW provided it is not "readily accessible."

One point to remember is that the castle doctrine in Florida does not give you blanket permission to shoot an intruder. The only difference in this and any other encounter where you may use deadly force is that you don't have to retreat if possible. If the BG is not an immediate threat to you or another person, like if he is running for the door to escape, deadly force is no longer justified.

I know everyone is now going to jump up and state they "feared for their life" regardless of what the intruder was doing. In the long run, even if you could get away with it, it is better to let him go and save yourself the hassle you would incur if you killed him.

Agent Z
May 12, 2003, 09:49 PM
Hkmp5sd

Yes indeed the castle doctrine does apply to your vehicle. Its is because of the castle doctrine that we are allowed to carry in our vehicles. It specifically mentions this in the wording of the doctrine itself. Certain exclusions apply to the vehicle itself when confronted with a fearful situation. In other words.........the vehicle is mobile. So you should do everything you can to get as far away from the danger as possible. But if your trapped and cannot move the vehicle well then you don't have to run any further. The vehicle is considered safe haven. An extension of your home. (I've been put in this situation once. It envolved a nut with a tire iron and me trapped in a traffic jam. The nut saw the error of his way and did an immediate about face.)

I am a CWP holder so I'm very much aware of the rules of engagement. I have read the official wording of the castle doctrine before. I lost it. Now I just need to find the States exact official wording itself again. Not the interpretations of a firearms coach and his freind the Atty. The States exact official wording. It does exist I assure you.

Thanks Guys

TarpleyG
May 12, 2003, 10:19 PM
Agent Z,

You should provide documentation to back that claim up. Not doubting you because I think it is the same. I just cannot find it in writing. Maybe you can for everyone's benefit.

GT

Preacherman
May 13, 2003, 12:40 AM
Sounds like Florida's law is similar to Louisiana's. Back in the '90's, there was an epidemic of car-jacking. Our Legislature promptly passed a law extending the "castle" doctrine to include one's car, and making it legal to carry a loaded gun in the car (whether or not you have a CCW permit) and use lethal force to prevent car-jacking. After a couple of car-jackers came to sudden and sticky ends, it's amazing how the epidemic of car thefts vanished into thin air... :D

Agent Z
May 13, 2003, 04:37 AM
TarpleyG
You should provide documentation to back that claim up

Now I just need to find the States exact official wording itself again. Not the interpretations of a firearms coach and his freind the Atty. The States exact official wording. It does exist I assure you.

Hkmp5sd
May 13, 2003, 07:34 AM
Yes indeed the castle doctrine does apply to your vehicle. Its is because of the castle doctrine that we are allowed to carry in our vehicles.

Odd. I always thought that carrying in a vehicle was permitted by

790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--

(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person's manual possession;


http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0790/ch0790.htm

I've been teaching the CCW class in Florida for around 14 years and in that time, haven't came across anything about Castle Doctrine applying to a person's vehicles. If you find the info, please provide a link.

CZ-100
May 13, 2003, 09:31 AM
Hkmp5sd

Yes indeed the castle doctrine does apply to your vehicle. Its is because of the castle doctrine that we are allowed to carry in our vehicles. It specifically mentions this in the wording of the doctrine itself. Certain exclusions apply to the vehicle itself when confronted with a fearful situation. In other words.........the vehicle is mobile. So you should do everything you can to get as far away from the danger as possible. But if your trapped and cannot move the vehicle well then you don't have to run any further. The vehicle is considered safe haven. An extension of your home. (I've been put in this situation once. It envolved a nut with a tire iron and me trapped in a traffic jam. The nut saw the error of his way and did an immediate about face.)

I am a CWP holder so I'm very much aware of the rules of engagement. I have read the official wording of the castle doctrine before. I lost it. Now I just need to find the States exact official wording itself again. Not the interpretations of a firearms coach and his freind the Atty. The States exact official wording. It does exist I assure you.

Thanks Guys

I found this on a FL web site

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

Q. What if I am in my car?

A. The courts have not extended the castle doctrine to cars. You have to retreat before using deadly force if you can retreat without further endangering yourself.


it is about half way down the page

TarpleyG
May 13, 2003, 09:39 AM
That's what we were looking for... Cool.

GT

Agent Z
May 13, 2003, 06:44 PM
Q. What if I am in my car?

A. The courts have not extended the castle doctrine to cars. You have to retreat before using deadly force if you can retreat without further endangering yourself.

Ok who ever wrote this is wrong.
The castle Doctrine is the preliminary philosophy that created the "you do not have to retreat in your own home". Now keep in mind that if you get into an altercation with someone who has a legal right to be in the same home you then have to retreat as best you can. Now keep that in mind and think a bit.

The Castle doctrine does indeed apply to your vehicle. You just have to use the vehicle to retreat with. But if both you and your vehicle cannot get away in time. Are trapped unable to move. Guess what? You do not have to retreat any further. You do not have to abandon your vehicle. The vehicle is your safe haven. Same as your home. Make sense?

But I'm actually enjoying this thread so much and I'm quite confident what I have read in the past is true, heres what I'm gonna do. I'm going to make an slight detour on the way home from work and see if I can't get in contact with the Brevard County Sheriffs Dept. Officer in Charge of training. He's the dude who showed us the Castle Doctrine. Then get a copy of it. I thought maybe it may be somewhere on the web. But I guess all we are going to get is web sites with other peoples translations.

keep the thread going or stop back after I see what I can scrounge up.

CZ-100
May 13, 2003, 08:38 PM
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Q. What if I am in my car?
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A. The courts have not extended the castle doctrine to cars. You have to retreat before using deadly force if you can retreat without further endangering yourself.
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The above is from the FL website and the exact thing that came in my application for my CC permit

Hkmp5sd
May 13, 2003, 09:15 PM
The Castle doctrine does indeed apply to your vehicle. You just have to use the vehicle to retreat with. But if both you and your vehicle cannot get away in time. Are trapped unable to move. Guess what? You do not have to retreat any further. You do not have to abandon your vehicle. The vehicle is your safe haven. Same as your home. Make sense?

If you cannot escape, doesn't that negate the "retreat" requirement, no matter where you are?

On the other hand, if you are inside your vehicle and it is completely blocked in, if there were a route that would allow you to escape successfully on foot, you'd be crazy to stay in your car, without any mobility, making yourself a sitting duck. If there is no escape route, you obviously have no option but to fight from inside the car.

I agree with CZ-100 on this one. Vehicles are not covered by the Castle Doctrine.

PakWaan
May 13, 2003, 09:35 PM
There is an EXCELLENT book on the Florida laws, called "Florida Firearms: Law, Use and Ownership" by a Florida attorney who specializes in firearms law (and is also a firearms instructor).

It is used in 7 Florida police academies , and I highly recommend it to anyone in Florida who owns a firearm. I bought it years ago and when new updates come out, you can download the changes from his website free.

See http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com for more info or to order it.

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