[Cincinnati Slim]

Howdy Y'all,

My buddy wanted a "sock-drawer" gun for home protection. He ain't a real "gun guy" so I talked him out of some fancy-pants high-cap shell shucker auto loader. I found him a nickle plated S&W model 13 with a 4" barrel at the neighborhood gun shop. It was nice and clean and had a great smooth trigger-pull and the price was right. He went home with it and a set of "snap-caps" to spend the rest of the week doing dry-fire practice to get used to the trigger pull of a double action K-frame. I took him to the range this weekend and all was well for the first 100 rounds or so. He was startin' to get a feel for the double action trigger-pull and his groups were gettin' better and better.

Then we ran into a problem. About every 4th or 5ht shot the action would hang-up. :fire: The hammer would stop about 1/8th of an inch away from the frame. You could draw it back the rest of the way to finish the shot single action with no problem. It would only "freeze" in double action mode. :confused: We're gonna' give the pistol a serious cleaning tonight, especially around and under the exractor/star/ratchet part. Couple 'o folks suggested there was gunk under the extractor pushing it back too far and causing the hitch as the hand came up against it. This sounds plausable since there is no problem with the double action operation when the crane is swung away and the cylinder is open.

Any idea what could be the problem or what else we should look for ?:confused:

I'm really suprised at this since I've had several S&Ws and have never had a similiar problem. This model 13 was pre-owned but hardly used judging from our close inspection pre-purchase. My friend is a jeweler and brought his loupe along when he bought the revolver. We looked really close at the hand, cylinder stop, extractor "Star", cylinder stop notches and hammer nose. Everything looked darned nice.

If this model 13 needs some 'smith work, any suggestions for the Cincinnati, Ohio area? Preferably somebody who has a track record slicking-up S&Ws ?:o

Thanks All,

Cincinnati Slim

[Deanimator]

I bought a 3" roundbutt Model 65 (the stainless version of your gun) a couple of weeks ago. The first time I shot a box of full power ammo (Federal "FBI" +P .38s) through it, it started sticking, plus the trigger wasn't returning between shots. I didn't see anything wrong with it, so I had my smith look at it.

Turns out that the strain screw wasn't screwed all the way in. That can cause symptoms similar to yours and mine. The strain screw is in the front face of the frame, opposite the trigger guard. You might need to remove the grips to see it if you have grips that cover the front of the grip frame. Turn the screw all the way in to see if that fixes the problem. It did in my case.

[Confederate]

Whenever you have a binding problem, see if you can find where it's binding. Since you said you'd done quite a bit of shooting, the first culprit could be unburned powder and gunk getting stuck under the extractor. This would cause binding in the rear. Also, if for any reason the primers were backing out on you or the headspace wasn't sufficient, you'd get the type of binding you describe. They may not be backing enough to jam the gun completely, but it could cause a problem in double action. I'll bet that the trigger is a bit harder pulling back when shooting single action.

Clean the gun and check barrel/cylinder gap. Examine the primers on spent shells to see if there are any dragging marks on them. Finally, make sure the extractor is seated completely and there's no gunk pushing it up.

Sometimes, too, if the b/c gap is too small, powder builds up and the parts expand with the heat of the gun as it's fired. If you can find out where it's binding, it should give you a good idea of what the problem is.

[EddieCoyle]

Clean it and make sure that the extractor lever is tight. What I mean by "extractor lever" is the thing on the front of the cylinder that you push to eject the spent cartridges. I have a couple of S&W revolvers that will bind if it loosens up. Depending on the model/vintage, these can have right-hand or left-hand threads. A little Loctite blue will fix the problem.

[clang]

The extracter may by loose - I believe it is reverse thread on your gun. See if you can spin the extracter while holding the cylinder.

[Cincinnati Slim]

Howdy All,

Thanks for the input everybody.

Deanator, are you refering to the fairly large screw which touches the hammer spring at the bottom front of the gripframe ?

We pulled the grips off, lossened the front sideplate screw and removed the crane and cylinder. Cleaned everything REALLY GOOD with solvent/carb cleaner, lightly oiled and reassembled. We DID NOT TAKE OFF THE SIDEPLATE ! (I'm scared of that, I heard S&Ws are full of tiny springs and parts which can fly EVERYWHERE !This ain't like one of my ole thumbuster Colts or Remmie single actions!)

Retightened all the screws snug but not too tight with a proper fitting set of screwdriver bits (thanks Brownell's) and now it's WORSE THAN EVER !:cuss:

It looks like the timing is off ! The cylinder stop is not dropping soon enough and as the hand comes up to turn the cylinder it locks up since the cylinder stop has not disengaged fully from the notch in the cylinder.

I'm afraid I gotta find a GUNsmith who works with S&Ws on a regular basis.

Anybody have any suggestions ? We are in SW Ohio, Cincinnati area.

Thanks,

Cincinnati Slim

[Deanimator]

Deanator, are you refering to the fairly large screw which touches the hammer spring at the bottom front of the gripframe ?

Precisely. Not having that turned all the way in (or having it intentionally cut short) can cause the problems I described. Just screw it all the way down, removing the grips if you have to.

[Deanimator]

I'm afraid I gotta find a GUNsmith who works with S&Ws on a regular basis.

Anybody have any suggestions ? We are in SW Ohio, Cincinnati area.

Cylinder & Slide (cylinder@cylinder-slide.com) has an excellent reputation.

You COULD send it back to S&W. The problem with that solution is that their QC and customer service are UTTERLY random. You might get insanely good service, or you might think you're dealing with SBC. It is simply impossible to predict which you'll get. If you pick a lot of winning lottery numbers, you might want to send it to S&W. I got burned, BAD. I'll never send them anything else again. Go to http://www.smith-wessonforum.com read the various stories, and make your own decision.

Good luck.

[Old Fuff]

Since this revolver was pre-owned I suspect the former owner might have done his own "trigger pull job," and in the process shortened or replaced the rebound slide spring, which among other things pushes the trigger forward. If so, the trigger may not snap forward quick enough to reset the cylinder stop before the shooter starts pulling the trigger backwards again. This is a sure way to hang up a gun, and one reason that S&W strongly recommends not fooling with the springs.

Removing the sideplate will not cause a lot of little springs and parts to fly all over the place, although the hammer block may fall out or stay in the sideplate where it is nested. This isn't a problem because it's easy to put back, but if you want too do your own work get a shop manul first or you'll soon be in trouble.

I can think of a number of reasons your revolver might be hanging up, but since I can't examine it I suggest that you consider returning to Smith & Wesson's repair department unless you can find a local gunsmith that is experienced in fixing S&W revolvers - many so-called gunsmiths aren't.

[Cincinnati Slim]

Greetings All,

We got the S&W at Costello's here in Cincinnati and they are gonna have a gunsmith named Jim Ball look at it. I really do appreciate all the input from everybody. Regarding the rebound slide spring; I understand What Old Fuff was saying but there does not seem to be any problem with trigger return action. When you pull the trigger double action really sloooowly and look closely you can see the problem. The hand comes up and starts to turn the cylinder BEFORE the cylinder stop has dropped all the way out of the locking notch. This locks up the action. If you release the trigger and slightly rock the cylinder while drawing back the hammer you can get the thing to cock but there is still a little hang-up as the cylinder stop snags the edge of the cylinder locking notch. I don't want to force this thing because it will start to bugger up the notches of the cylinder.

I feel really bad about this whole deal because I've been shootin' for years and my rookie shooter friend trusted my judgement. I picked this one out and thought I'd checked it out pretty darned well at the store. Must have dry fired it fifty times without any problems before the purchase. I've bought and sold a half dozen S&Ws over the years and never had a minute's problem with any of 'em aside from screws coming loose here and there.

I guess I'll get a book or instructional video so I can avoid these problems in the future. I've been fixing single actions since I was a kid but was always intimidated by S&W internals.

Not that I'm gonna try it but...WHAT'S THE SAFEST WAY TO GET THE SIDEPLATE OFF ? I'm not about to risk buggering up somebody else's gun but I should know how since I got about a half dozen of 'em...

Thanks,

Cincinnati Slim

[Deanimator]

Not that I'm gonna try it but...WHAT'S THE SAFEST WAY TO GET THE SIDEPLATE OFF ? I'm not about to risk buggering up somebody else's gun but I should know how since I got about a half dozen of 'em...

NEVER, EVER PRY the sideplate off.

Take the grips off. Remove the relevent screws. Rap the grip frame with the plastic handle of a screwdriver, or with a plastic hammer. You don't need to beat the crap out of it, just keep tapping until it walks out.

[pete f]

Find the Kuhnhausen book on S&W's

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=314178

and the video

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=385244

This guy is the real deal, his works are great for detail and reliability. He knows his stuff and can tell you how to do it.