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September 19, 2006, 08:39 PM
Whatever works for you. As long as you can shoot it straight, trust it's reliability, and have a lot of ammo.
September 19, 2006, 08:40 PM
You could certainly do worse, as it is a light and handy weapon, but finding any ammo once yours runs out will likely be a problem. I would personally prefer something chambered in 5.56mm, 7.62 x 51mm or 7.62 x 39mm due to likely availability of ammo...
September 19, 2006, 08:41 PM
kind of underpowerd I guess, but I'm glad I have one!
September 19, 2006, 09:26 PM
For pluses, I'd say:
Good thump at ranges you could defend actually using deadly force at during a SHTF scenario (assuming your SHTF scenario is not an apocalyptic, Road Warrior sort of one). It is not a real a real stone-faced killer at 150 or 200 meters, but it'll get the job done inside 100 meters, and if you're taking shots at longer range you'll eventually have some explaining to do if the authorities catch up with you.
Doesn't look like an evil black rifle and such -- probably less attention from the (potentially gun snatching) authorities and such when carrying an M1 carbine than when carrying an M4gery or Springfield SOCOM II.
Ammo and magazines are very light and portable, even compared to 5.56mm. Not a big issue if you're staying holed up in one location, but a definite plus if you're displaced (even if using a vehicle) and your wife is wanting you to lug the wedding photos and grandma's prized china with you as you go.
Very handy -- it's something the wife and kids could use just as easily as an adult male (if that's an issue). They're also fun to shoot, meaning that you can probably get the family to practice with it more easily than something that leaves a shoulder sore after a day at the range.
Pretty rugged. In a pinch you can execute a snappy butt stroke to the head and such.
As the previous poster mentioned, it's not the most common kind of ammo out there, if you're in a scrounging for bullets sort of SHTF situation.
I would personally prefer something I could hang modern optics and maybe a light on for a relatively short-term SHTF scenario like Katrina. If things have gotten bad enough long enough that I need more batteries for my EOTech, it may be time to start thinking about black powder :)
Not an evil black rifle (I know, also a plus up above) -- People who don't know much about guns are probably going to be much more intimidated by an M4gery and other EBRs than they are by a wood stocked M1 carbine. (Of course people who don't know about guns will tend to assume that anything gun like is a death ray anyway . . .)
September 19, 2006, 09:35 PM
id give it a top 10 nod.
September 19, 2006, 09:37 PM
Better than nothing, but the ammo is not as prevalent or powerful as I would like.
I would prefer a 12 ga shotgun, or semiauto rifle in .223 or 7.62*39.
September 19, 2006, 09:44 PM
IMO the M1 Carbine is a good choice. GI Carbines are generally reliable. They are light, handy, and have light recoil. If you add a folding stock they can stow away in a small place. A surplus M-60 barrel bag fits a Carbine in an M1A1 paratrooper stock perfectly.
Generally speaking, the 15 round mags are more reliable than 30 rounders.
If yours will feed JSPs reliably then terminal effectives is greatly improved vs. Ball ammo. Jim Cirrillo reported very good results in real shootouts when with the NYPD. Dr. Gary Roberts, who has tested Winchester, Remington, and Federal JSPs in gelatin reports that the Win. and Rem. loads expand well, with the nod to the Remmies. The Federal JSPs did not perform well. The Remmies, OTH, performed on par with about the best 5.56MM loads. Since in the vast majority of SHTF situations you need a short range defensive arm, the longer effective range of 5.56MM or 7.62 NATO rifles is irrelevant, IMO.
I have a longer post on the M1 Carbine as a SHTF gun here (http://survivalpreps.blogspot.com/2006/07/m1-carbine-as-shtf-gun.html).
September 19, 2006, 10:43 PM
A surplus M-60 barrel bag fits a Carbine in an M1A1 paratrooper stock perfectly.
+1. IMHO, a very good choice for work inside of 150 yards.
September 20, 2006, 12:05 AM
M1 Carbine. Very ideal. light, easy to handle, high capacity, small enough to fit anywhere and carry around easy. No it's not a 30-06 or even a .223, but it's powerful enough caliber and cartridge to do most needed jobs during such a crisis.
September 20, 2006, 12:39 AM
It's the original PDW. A light, handy shoulder fired weapon, more acurate than a pistol at long range. Way lighter than either the AR or AK and better looking, too. In the M1A1 stock it's the handiest of the bunch. You could do a LOT worse.
Don't Tread On Me
September 20, 2006, 12:50 AM
I'd say it is top notch. Remember, SHTF doesn't automatically mean combat or massive gun battle where you will expend 300-400rds at ranges of 50 to 350 yards. It will most likely be personal defense from crime, rioters or looters and for survivalism in the short term.
It wins huge on light and handy. Cartridge is enough. Many, many people are quite satisfied with a pistol for SHTF. This would be a huge performance leap above that. It's a 150 yard rifle really, so a reddot serves it quite well. Or just use irons and keep it simple.
Only negative is magazine availability. Ammo is a little pricey if you're looking to stockpile. That's about it. Otherwise, it's one of the all time top SHTF rifles in my opinion.
September 20, 2006, 01:02 AM
Don't listen to the 'better than nothing ratings'...as a short-range 'longarm'..this gun excells at just that...the round has plenty of power to kill...the gun is so short and light it can be swung fast even with one arm...an ideal street-shooter...easy to take apart...very good reliability..good sights...I have one for plinking and such a purpose as you asked about...get a good supply of magazines(USGI only)..and a can or two of store away ammo and you are set!..damn good defense arm...!
September 20, 2006, 01:14 AM
Ok can I be the dissenting vote here. Before I dissent let me preface by saying that I am the first one to say that any firearm you know how to handle can be a solid SHTF firearm.
That being said if I were going out to buy a SHTF firearm the M1 carbine vs. say an AR15 just doesn't cut the butter.
The cost of a good reliable M1 Carbine is gong to be in decent AR15 area.
.223 is much more effective at both close and long ranges.
The AR15 (without lots of taticrap hanging off of it) is just about as handy.
Ammo for the AR15 is more plentiful.
I personally find te AR15 easier to clean (I own both)
Should you want to add lightslasersbayonetslightsaberswissarmyknifesetc the AR15 is your beast.
The AR15 has reliable 30 round magazines the M1 carbine is hit or miss in this regard.
The plastic on the AR is more resliant then the wood on the M1.
Now please don't construe any of the above as me saying the M1 carbine wouldn't be a dandy SHTF gun, as I believe it would. I just think that if I had money in hand and had to make a choice it wouldn't be my first choice. Hell for the price a good GI M1 I could buy two decent AKs.
September 20, 2006, 01:26 AM
I am no expert, but I will agree with everyone else on this one. I love my 30 caliber carbine...I actually inherited it from my grandfather. It is a ton of fun and I think it would do the job as a SHTF rifle. But for all of the aforementioned reasons from eveyone else...I would say unless you already have one, you could get more for your money with a different rifle platform. Its funny but I keep looking at those ultimak top rails for the carbine, which would probably ruin the collectible value of this gun trying to modernize it...yet make it more functional....
My vote is an AR or AK...30 caliber ammo is not as plentiful as it used to be!
September 20, 2006, 01:35 AM
Grampa seemed to like it:
Wouldn't be my first choice nowadays, but I sure as heck wouldn't volunteer to stand it front of one neither. One of these days I'd like to get one for the "grampa wall" in the house. :)
September 20, 2006, 01:53 AM
I'd prefer an SKS if you wanted to stay with a similar rifle. AR or AK if you wanted to go with one of those types of rifle.
Not going to debate the better gun, not at all. The M1 is a good gun, just saying don't know if it would be my first choice mainly do to magazines and a few reasons reguarding the ammo.
September 20, 2006, 03:47 AM
On the other hand, for all those who are saying stick with AR's and AK's, don't forget: I live in California.
September 20, 2006, 04:46 AM
Have you fired a War Baby yet? If not, you'll be pleasantly surprised when you do. It barks like it's a .30 cal, yet it handles like little more than a .22. That and my Garand always put a smile on my face when I shoot them. :D
As for SHTF, if you get the soft points, it should serve you well. I keep reading .30 carbine is like .357 magnum but with more range, so it should be good for zombie attacks as well (head shots, remember ;) ).
Buy one. Just cuz. :D
September 20, 2006, 06:16 AM
I'll start by pointing out that the M1/M2 carbine wouldn't be my first choice for SHTF; ammunition would be a nightmare to restock once depleted. I've chosen a Springfield Armory SAR -4800 (FN/FAL variant) for my SHTF rifle as it just "fits" me and is chambered in a readily available military cartridge.
However, if you already have an M1 Carbine or have your heart set on one for whatever reason, it's not a bad choice!
Though I'd rather have a bit more punch from a rifle, the .30 carbine is no slouch in terms of potential effectiveness!
When compared to a 7.62x51, sure... its paper ballistics seem a bit anemic. But when compared to energies typically associated with handguns, it's a beast! The .30 Carbine spits out its 110gr slug at about 2000 FPS at the muzzle, developing around 1000 foot-pounds of energy. This places the .30 Carbine squarely in the same power bracket as the much lauded .44magnum in terms of energy... and a warm .44magnum at that.
When JSPs are used to make the most use of this energy, the M1 Carbine makes for a formidable defensive weapon.
BTW, much of the War Baby's stigma as being anemic to the point of being ineffective were largely due to non-hits on enemy combatants in Korea which were mistakenly believed to have been hits. These stories were further perpetuated by arm-chair warriors who likely never served, let alone fired an M1 Carbine in anger and "me too" idiots that aped these BS stories they'd overheard, though themselves also lacked any personal experience with the carbine or cartridge (among my greatest of pet peeves, even more so than the failure to use turn signals).
For the record, the myth of layers of wool winter coats and packs of cigarettes stopping a 110gr .30 Carbine FMJ at 100 yards has been put to the test on several occasion by others and found to be exactly the BS that it smelled like. ;)
Personally, I'm on my 2nd M1 Carbine. My first was a Universal and though accurate as M1's tend to be, it was a lemon in terms of reliability. My current M1 carbine is a cherry Kahr Arms make with walnut stock and handguard. The "disruption" to Play dough caused by a 110gr Mag-tech JSP is nearly indestinguishable from that of a 123gr S&B 7.62x39 out of an SKS outside the 2-3" edge in penetration of the heavier slug.
In all, I truly believe the only significant drawback to the M1 Carbine is nothing more than the availability of its ammunition. If the ammo is in hand, I seriously would consider it capable of doing anything the SKS or AK-47 can inside 150 yards (if you need more range than that, either you're not picking your fights properly or you should've skipped straight to the 7.62x51 NATO to begin with)..
September 20, 2006, 08:16 AM
In general, any gun will do if you will.
In terms of ergonomics and sights, I like the little carbine just fine. I prefer it to full size ARs, and I'd call it a tie with a genuine M4 for me for defensive usage.
Upsides: I'd take deer a lot quicker with one than a 5.56mm.
Downside: finding ammo.
September 20, 2006, 09:41 AM
Its funny but I keep looking at those ultimak top rails for the carbine, which would probably ruin the collectible value of this gun trying to modernize it...yet make it more functional....
The installation of the UltiMAK rail on the carbine does not alter the rifle in any way. It can be removed and restored to original configuration at any time. Just installed one on my M1A1, and waiting for an Eotech 512 to arrive. Should result in very fast target acquisition.
High Planes Drifter
September 20, 2006, 10:18 AM
Wolf is now making .30, J+G, Sportsmans Guide, and Cheaper than Dirt have it for a decent price. Not the best defensive ammo, but to stockpile, and plink......
I have also been considering buying one for plinking. I have an M1A for SHTF, but my older brother had a Rockola Carbine and I did love shooting that little carbine. Its easily the funnest/handiest gun Ive ever fired. I can see its value as a SHTF weapon.
September 20, 2006, 10:18 AM
I live in California.
September 20, 2006, 10:35 AM
I think it is a fine choice.
IMHO, I think ammo availability is only a concern if you are walking and your ammo is heavy enough that you can't carry a significant amount (get a wheelbarrow). Otherwise, try to have at least 500 rounds of ammo you can use and you are set for anything short of TEOTWAWKI.
September 20, 2006, 11:05 AM
It wouldn't be my first choice but like one other said "any firearm you know how to handle can be a solid SHTF firearm". I have an M1A Scout for that along with 8300 rounds of South African surplus here at the house. Would it be a great gun to give to my wife for one of those SHTF times? You bet it would! I'd get a few USGI mags and what ever purches are needed to carry them around with. And as for ammo; It loads like a pistol round. I'd just reload for the thing and load my own stock pile. Now, I don't own an M1 carbine and plan to buy or build an AR next but, I wouldn't have a problem with haveing to rely on the little carbine to answer a social call with.
Brother in Arms
September 20, 2006, 11:46 AM
I think the .30 carbine has alot of advantages and some disavantages. I dont want to parrot whats aleady been said but here they are.
easy to shoot
quick to reload
ammo is light
short range proposition
not easy to add optics/ other fancy gear
I am not invested in either the m1 carbine or the AR-15 platform and I don't want this to become an M1 vs. AR thread but I think a AR-15 commando or M4 forgery would be a little better in some areas and a little worse in others. Its not as light or handy and ammo is heavier but it has better long range potential more available ammo and magazines.
a couple of neat things to add about the M1 carbine, it was Auddie murphy's favorite rifle. You can carry a ton of 15 round magazines for it, in a vest for the M203 grenade laucher. The M1 carbine Is still in limited use in Isreal and they have a PDW chambering .30 carbine called the MAGAL which is based on the AK.
Brother in arms
September 20, 2006, 11:56 AM
My M1 Carbine has a definite role in my family's SD plan. The rifle has the unique quality of being suitable for use by any member of my family. For example, my son's now 15 and while is ok on my AR, uncomfortable with my Garand, is perfectly at home with the war baby. Since he's now of shooting age, we often practice on zombie targets as a family. In varying arrangements of shooters, we bring to bear the Carbine, a pair of ARs and a Garand.
In short, I'm very happy to have a role for this little warrior.
Sic Semper Zombus!
October 1, 2006, 11:56 PM
Well, with Wolf churning out .30 carbine ammo now, wouldn't the availability problem be solved somewhat?
October 2, 2006, 12:25 AM
lacks balls,under powered ect.get a sks
October 2, 2006, 01:16 AM
It would work fine. Small, easy to carry, works for small people and handy with a good size slug. Think of it as a shotgun that can shoot further.
Would I have one? Yes
Do I? No
Do I wish I had one? Maybe
October 2, 2006, 01:21 AM
Just stay away from Ive Johnson, theirthe most unreliable carbines I ever shot.
October 14, 2006, 02:05 AM
My question about Wolf ammo still hasn't been answered.
October 14, 2006, 02:27 AM
My Iver Johnson really did suck, but that's ancient history. Start stacking the ammo deep by the case right now, and I doubt you'd have trouble in any realistic scenario with a decent M1 carbine, but really, buy a lot of ammo. Even if that's not what you want it for, lay in the ammo in caseloads right now. Your grandchildren can always shoot it all up.
October 14, 2006, 09:27 AM
What do they cost? I've never seen one in the shops around central Va..
October 14, 2006, 10:01 AM
its a pistol cartrige, so it lacks range and power. i admit, its just not on the same as a true rifle.
its not a common cartrige, so your stuck with what you have onhand.
optics mounts are uncommon, but they are available and the side mount for the universal m1 carbine rocks!
handier than a pistol grip shotgun and only a few inches longer. easy to manuver indoors with at the hip with the stock sticking back past your hand.
the cartrige is like a .357 magnum with better penetration. still holds true using softpoints in the carbine. no one complains about the .357 magnum for a cartrige.
magazines are skinny and fit in a back pocket easily.
its QUIETER than a full size rifle or pistol. my ruger mark1 .22lr pistol is louder by far. this lack of exessive noise makes it a favorite for me.
kicks like a tired puppy. children can handle it.
accurate enough. mine will do 4 inch groups at 50 yards rapid fire and 1 inch groups at 50 prone slow fire.
a light can be added with any barrel mount light mount(i see em on ebay for 10 bucks shipped, mount only no light)
the m1 carbine is an awesome short range shtf tool. definately worth using for short shtf times and in the extremely unlikely event of an extended or permanent shtf its good enough to use to liberate a more common platform such as a ar15.
October 14, 2006, 10:31 AM
If I could only have one gun....it'd be W-A-Y down the list....
If I can have multiple guns...it's even farther down the list...
For true SHTF scenarios, there's just so many other good choices, whether for one gun, or multiples....I just don't see it fitting in there, as there are so many superior weapons, unless that's the only thing you have.
Not that its not a good gun, but with what 1 costs around here, I can buy for example, 1 SKS, 1 .22 w/ scope, and a shotgun. (Maybe throw a Hi-Point in .40 in there somewhere as well, if I buy used guns) All of which (IMHO) have more utility (for various purposes) than the M1 carbine.
October 14, 2006, 10:33 AM
Kenshin, for whatever SHTF firearm you think you need, get the ammo now. When Bad Things begin, "availability" will generally be zilch, zip, nada--no matter what cartridge. Stores will be closed.
October 14, 2006, 04:33 PM
dfaugh, when you live in a state that limits your choices on guns, the M1 Carbine starts to go WAY up the list as a SHTF weapon.
October 14, 2006, 11:41 PM
OK, but the cartridge isn't the best. I would say that .30 Carbine is better than a lot of those 9mm carbines that people are using for SHTF purposes. If you want the compactness of the Carbine with a better bullet, I would suggest a folding stock AK variant with the ten round magazines instead of the 30 rounders. This would give you a better cartridge in a similarly sized package.
However, an M-1 Carbine is a useful weapon and not to be sneezed at. It is probably better for urban and suburban environments than rural ones. If I lived on the Great Plains or the big sky country of the far west, I would get something with a little more range.
October 15, 2006, 06:11 AM
Can you get 15 round GI magazines in California? I would hate to rely on 10 round non-GI magazines due to increased cost and potential reliability problems.
If you can find one, I would recomend a paratrooper SKS. Still light and handy (just not as light and handy as a M1 Carbine), more common caliber, and not reliant on magaines of questionable quality (aka non USGI).
October 15, 2006, 06:18 AM
M1 is OK, M2 is amazing. Full auto these things simply kick ass.
October 15, 2006, 10:15 AM
I don't rate it very high. I have three myself, two Inlands and a Rock Ola. Fun guns, light, easy to carry. Not as effective a round as my AR rifles or my commie rifles. Ammo expensive, and not widely distributed. That would make resupply difficult. Parts are not found easily, and with no internet to order from, might be hard to get.
I won't be getting rid of mine, and I would not feel undergunned if armed with one in a time of need. There are better choices for extreme circumstances though.
October 15, 2006, 12:45 PM
I think it would be as good as anything for urban SHTF scenarios..Essex
October 15, 2006, 09:15 PM
Two men I highly respect have used the little carbine "for real" and were successful in doing what needed doing with the little gun. One was a prison guard, the other a WWII Marine in the Pacific. The prison guard stopped an escape attempt, but in retrospect wishes he'd had a better long range weapon, because the shot he had to make was at the limit of the carbine's effective range, and the scumbag lived to commit some horrendous crimes later.
The Marine, though he was wounded in the exchange and lost an eye, permanently ended the threat with a single close-range, barely aimed burst.
I'd take one.
October 15, 2006, 10:00 PM
you guys are comparing it to rifle cartriges, that just isnt a even playing field. its a pistol cartrige!!!!!! and as a pistol round carbine it is exedingly kick a$$!!! few pistol caliber carbines (in semi auto) even contend whith what the m1 carbine can do. it kicks like a 9mm carbine and hits its target like a .357 magnum. how can you look down on that? and its fairly accurate out to 250 yards or so. its light weight, and its rugged. battle proven reliability for ef's sake! sorry to get all worked up but dang it, i really love my m1 carbine. just cause some service men in korea couldnt understand the capabilities of the cartrige and complained about it we all echo that sentiment with no verification? gimme a break. as box o truth tested the .30 carbine cartrige did fine. even compared to some rifle rounds.
my basic point is that people who say pistol cartriges are not good enough are the same ones who are saying the m1 carbine doesnt measure up to sks or ak or ar15 capabilities. its just apples and oranges. if yoiur gonna compare it then compare it to a pistol cartrige carbine.
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