[Phantom Warrior]

On another website a newbie was talking about a Glock 36 he had just bought. He mentioned that the slide stop was very stiff and difficult to thumb when dropping the slide. Here is one of the responses:

Your Glock 36 does not have a "slide release" and your continued use of the slide lock lever as such will eventually damage the slide lock lever of your otherwise indestructible Glock handgun. Release the slide by firmly grasping the rear of the slide and pulling the slide as far back as possible before letting the slide spring closed.

How bad is it, really, to thumb the slide stop? I honestly went for about a year and a half of owning my Glock 23 before I even knew you COULD do that... :confused: And I've persisted ever since. This is the first time I've ever heard anyone say that doing that is VERY BAD. My point is that my Glock hasn't shown any ill effects, so I'm a little skeptical.

Would someone more informed than I chime in and let me know the accepted philosophy on that?

[Mike Irwin]

Well, the poster is right, but is certainly being a prick about it.

Eventually thumbing the slide stop can cause either the stop or the notch or both to round over.

On a modern gun with hardened parts that will take a long time, though.

[bpisler]

I used a extended slide lock on my 26 for over a year and a half with no ill effects to either part.The G34 and 35 come from glock with the extended slide lock in place so it must not be to hard on either part to use your thumb.

[Handy]

being a prick about it.

Wow, Mike, what did the poster do to earn that? That two line quote seems pretty straight forward.



I think this issue with Glocks is truly hilarious when you consider the G34 and their extended levers. If they aren't there to release, then they are to be used to lock back the slide manually. Doing so is usually associated with clearing jams. So the only logical conclusion is that the Competition Glocks are designed to jam more often!:D



Well, I don't buy that either, but why extend a lever you aren't supposed to engage?

[cratz2]

I admit that I am generally against the use of using the slide stop as a slide release on a 1911. But Glock markets an extended slide release... So I don't really see the problem and my local Certified Glock Armorer says it's absolutely fine to use it 100% of the time.

You can decide if you'd rather listen to a Glock Armorer and Glock directly or some kid on GlockTalk.com that probably doesn't even own his own Glock. :rolleyes:

[Mike Irwin]

Yeah, maybe I read that the wrong way, Handy, but for some reason it struck me as having an "undercurrent" of "you dumbass, you're too much of a fool to know what the parts of your gun are named and their purpose..."

[Nightcrawler]

Why NOT use the slide stop lever? That's what it's THERE for, isn't it? If it breaks because of that, it's a defective part and simply needs to be replaced with a sturdier unit.

I agree with Mike, though, the GT poster was being a jerk. Has that snyde, "HA you fool!" tone to how he worded his response.

[caz223]

Agreed , it isn't the death of a glock to use the slide stop as a slide release.
I think that's more of a 1911 thing.
1911s have been around so long that there is a rather large list of do's and dont's.
It's prolly generally agreed that "slingshotting" the slide is better for guns, and promotes better feeding.
They are tools to serve you, just like cars or computers.
Some people's cars and computers last longer than others, though.

[M1911]

It's prolly generally agreed that "slingshotting" the slide is better for guns, and promotes better feeding.Can't say as I agree with that. Personally, I use the slide stop to release the slide. The only time it has caused wear on the slide stop notch is on the POS ParaOrdnance P14 that I own. But all the parts on that gun suck, so it doesn't surprise me that the slide does too. In contrast, the slide stop notches on my Kimbers show no wear.

[braindead0]

Do M1911-A1's even release if you pull the slide back? I never tried, my dad tought me to thumb the release... and that's what he learned in the Army... Never had any problems with either of his 1911's.

Which begs the question...what about my PT92?

I figured it's much faster when reloading to thumb the release rather than bringing up your off hand to pull the slide and then back to the grip.. in fact.. I'm sure it's faster. ;-)

[BigG]

I don't think it's bad on a quality pistol. In my opinion it is more of a bogieman tale used by some to scare the less wary. Akin to: The sky is falling! When a person has the need to remind somebody else (or themselves) about imaginary ills it is called obsessive compulsive behavior. :eek:

[MoNsTeR]

Thumb the slide stop, that's what it's there for. If it weren't, it wouldn't be serrated/checkered, or it would be internal like on the CZ-52.

[Marko Kloos]

I used to belong to the "slingshot the slide" school, but these days I use the slide stop exclusively. It's faster than bringing up hand #2, it's easily accomplished one-handed, and it's more "immediate", as it doesn't allow for unintentional slowing of the forward slide movement through slow-chambering. Some pistols have feed issues when they're slow-chambered.

[themic]

being overprotective of your slide stop is a bit overdramatic. it's a gun part. made of steel. press it. i have a hard time believing that any respectable firearm can be broken through minimal application of force by the fingers. i have never heard of a slide stop breaking because of use by the thumb. being slammed by the slide 40,000 times, maybe. but not the thumb.

plus, you should be able to operate your gun one-handed.

[Handy]

The issue with the Glock slide stop(release) is that it is a thin stamping and acts as a scraping blade down the back of the notch when pushed down. Enough of that has damaged some peoples slides, changing the slide notch angle to where it won't catch anymore.

So, buyer beware. But if you have a G35, the locking block/slide peening issue will probably destroy your slide before the release does.:D


On a side note, there is nothing wrong with babying you gun at the range, as long as you know how to do things fast in a pinch. A babied weapon is much more likely to work when you need it. It doesn't matter if you are abusing a plastic, aluminum, steel or kryptonite part - abuse is abuse. Treat your guns like you want them to last and they'll treat you the same.

[larryw]

I've always wondered if using the slide stop/release/whatever to drop the slide was against the manufacturer's wishes and generally a bad thing, why has the top of most releases have been textured to provide a slip-free purchase for virtually forever?

Glocks, being as they are "different", use a little steel nib that is also textured on the side for a slip-free purchase.

Can someone explain why dropping the slide using the release causes more damage than the same release catching the slide during recoil?

I just don't get some of this internet lore.

And Mike, I agree with your first assessment of the post on GT.

[mattk]

THe original intent of the USE the SLINGSHOT not the Slide Release method is physical.
Finding that itty bitty tiny Slide stop is a fine motor skils.
Wrapping your big paw around the top of the slide and pulling is more of gross motor skill.
Gross motor skills are easier to perform under stress.
I really dont think this has ever been a maintanence issue.

[Mike Irwin]

I don't think anyone said anything about the slide stop breaking, Themic.

Wearing is different from breaking.

When two parts rub together against each other, especially under relatively high spring pressure, there are wear issues involved.

The rate of wear is the wild card.

[Soap]

I ALWAYS use the slide stop. If my gun breaks, I'll put in the safe and use a copy or buy another. I think there are inherent disadvantages to slingshotting, namely the ones that Lendringser outlined.

[M1911]

On a side note, there is nothing wrong with babying you gun at the range, as long as you know how to do things fast in a pinch. The problem with that is that under stress, you'll probably behave how you've trained. Train the way you fight, fight the way you train.

[New_comer]

I slingshot. :D

Have stubby thumbs. I just hate to shift my grip if only to reach the slide release lever. ;)

[M1911]

THe original intent of the USE the SLINGSHOT not the Slide Release method is physical. Finding that itty bitty tiny Slide stop is a fine motor skils. Wrapping your big paw around the top of the slide and pulling is more of gross motor skill. Gross motor skills are easier to perform under stress.That's one school of thought. And if you have a gun like a Glock with an itty-bitty slide stop, then it might not be a bad idea. But if you have a gun with a large, properly placed slide stop like an HK USP or M1911, I find that I can reliably find the slide stop, even under the stress of competition. And using the slide stop is a good 1/2 second faster for me.

Choose what works for you and your gun, then train that way always. Either method can work. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

[New_comer]

BUT...

I like it best if the slide happens to release on its own if i happen to slam in the magazine with just the right amount of force...

Doesn't wear out the slide's notch and the lever stop. :D

If only I could do it everytime... :(

[themic]

Mike: good point, wear is diffferent from breaking. the words of the origianl quote seemed harsher than wear, when the unknown poster said: "... will eventually damage the slide lock lever".

[larryw]

I don't buy the gross vs. fine motor skill argument: If one can't master hitting the slide release with a finger, how on earth can they master trigger control, one of the most difficult fine motor skills around?

BTW, I slingshot 95% of the time. :D

[braindead0]

I think the 'fine vs. gross' issue depends. In my case, when gripping most full size autos, all I have to do is rotate my thumb up and the release is right there. With the rest of my hand keeping a grip on the gun, I think that sweeping the thumb up and back down isn't quite a 'fine motor skill'.

[Mike Irwin]

"and it's more "immediate", as it doesn't allow for unintentional slowing of the forward slide movement through slow-chambering."

Not sure what you mean by this, Lends.

Are you talking about riding the slide home with your hand?

If so, that's not slingshoting.

Truly slingshoting the slide, where the slide is released as soon as it contacts the rearmost part of travel, theoretically provides even faster slide speeds for chambing because the slide travels slightly farther.

The way I do it is to very quickly and forcibly pull back on the slide to its rearmost position and then continue to pull my hand "through" the motion to the rear. That way there's no possibility of my riding the slide home.

[Handy]

I'm with Larry. The slide release is a big lever in an easy spot. On most guns it is bigger than the safety or mag release, yet we don't talk about being incapable of actuating those.

Slingshotting, compared to hitting the release, is MORE likely to fail under stress. You may ride the slide down with a bad slingshot and end up inducing a jam. On the other hand, a properly functining pistol will ALWAYS chamber from the release.

Larry, an explanation of the Glock problem is in my last post. Essentially, the slide lever scrapes the slide notch, which is different than the impact of catching the slide.

[curt]

I was taught that that little lever thingy is a slide stop not a slide release. I try and keep the motions i go through on my HG to a minimum. I always operate my slide like mike irwin described whether i'm chambering a round or clearing a malfunction. I have one motion to practice over and over that gets my gun running. I do think that if your into gaming that the slight increase in speed of using the slidestop to release might be good but for SD i consider certain better than fast.

BTW i don't think the term is slingshotting mike. SS is when you grasp the rear end of the slide with thumb and forfinger, bring the slide back and release.

[bubbygator]

I shot Ship's Team pistol in the Navy (1960-64) with standard issue .45's. I don't recall ever seeing a sling-shot release being used at that time. Although I've continued to shoot intermittantly (not competition) since then, I don't recall hearing any big deal about sling-shotting.... until I got a Glock.

I know shooting technique has advanced, so I've tried both ways with my Glock, and I have to say that despite my inclination to use the slide-stop lever, the sling-shot method does work very well for range shooting.

In a real situation, my thumb reflex would probably take over. (Despite the fact that it might be a "fine motor skill", my thumb knows quite well where that lever is located without me "thinking" about it.)

[braindead0]

I don't really think using the slide release is 'gamey'. You reach for a new mag, insert mag, now at this point your hand is in a perfect position to grip the gun.

But instead you're going to reach up for the slide and rack it back to 'slingshot' and then get your grip again? Then you have to remember not to do that on a tac-load.

I'm with bubbygator on this one, when I insert a mag my thumb automatically goes for the slide release. The only time I ever rack a slide is to do a tap-rack-roll (which I do when 'charging' as well).

I've watched people do a tac-load and try to rack the slide, it's quite funny... and I'd rather not get in the habit of racking after inserting a mag..cause as someone mentioned earlier.. practice can take over.

[Marko Kloos]

Not sure what you mean by this, Lends.

Are you talking about riding the slide home with your hand?

I mean unintentionally "retarding" the slide movement while slingshotting it, by inadvertently riding the slide forward. Experienced folks usually don't do this, but I've seen plenty of beginners and not-too-practiced folks do this.

[Mike Irwin]

"Slingshotting, compared to hitting the release, is MORE likely to fail under stress."

That's what training is all about. I seriously doubt that I'd be inclined to ride the slide down during a high stress situation.

Why?

Because I don't ride the slide down during high-stress competition situations.

"You may ride the slide down with a bad slingshot and end up inducing a jam. On the other hand, a properly functining pistol will ALWAYS chamber from the release."

Always is such a strong word. The ONLY thing I'd "always" count on is that "always" is "always" a crap shoot.

I've seen more than one properly operating handgun fail to chamber when using a slide stop release method.

[caz223]

I slingshot almost exclusively, except on third gen smiths. (And berettas.)
That durn slide mounted safety gets in the way.
As for slingshotting getting in the way, follow through with the motion, it's very fluid.
It's like making hand signals at your gun.
Your gun will understand once it "learns".

[braindead0]

caz223:

I slingshot almost exclusively, except on third gen smiths. (And berettas.)

Just out of curiosity, why?

[Handy]

So if both methods can be screwed up, what is the advantage in practicing the slower slingshot method?

[braindead0]

I wonder if this thread has stumbled onto another 'holy war' topic, were boths sides will fight to the death that their way is better.:banghead: :what:

[caz223]

Grabbing and releasing the slide in the approved gross motor skills method and slingshotting the slide on either mentioned model = bruised hand, possibly bent nail.
Another reason I HATE slide mounted safeties.
I'm selling my 3rd gen smith this week, and my beretta went to an owner that loves her more than I.
The beretta is the better of the two, the ambi safety on the smiths is HUGE.

[themic]

aside from any known issues with a specific model (e.g. the glocks), it seems like either way is ok, with some plusses and minuses, and as long as you practice well.

hey! new flame topic! 9mm Glocks don't work as well as 45 1911's because they slingshot! Slide release means better one-shot stop statistics on barnyard animals! :neener:

[Mike Irwin]

"So if both methods can be screwed up, what is the advantage in practicing the slower slingshot method?"

Well, first of all, I think people are making some erroneous (sp?) assumptions here, the most basic being that all semi-autos have slide-stops that can be reached by all shooters with their grip thumbs. That's not the case.

It's also assuming that the individual is shooting a gun with an external slide stop.

It's also assuming that the individual is shooting the a gun right handed. Not all shooters are right handed, and not all guns have ambi-slide stops.

Finally, there's the assumption that the slide stop is workable under thumb or finger pressure. I've got a Kahr K9 with about 1,500 rounds through it, and the slide stop is still pretty much unworkable as a means of releasing the slide. The springs are simply too powerful.

Simply put, given two well versed shooters, I'm not at all certain that one method has any inherent advantage over the other.

[Handy]

Mike,

There are a few combat pistols that have a release located where the right thumb or left index finger can't get to it. But I can't think of any that aren't PPKish.


Is your last statement implying that you can get your offhand from the mag to the slide as fast as you can actuate the release, or just that the difference in time isn't important?

[T.Stahl]

Here's what Glock says:
Loading and Firing
[...]

4. [...]
Insert a new magazine and then either push the slide stop lever downward, or pull the slide slightly backward and allow it to spring forward.
[...]


You see, you can do it either way, just do it the way you like and of which you know that it will work for YOU.

BTW, I prefer the "left-hand-over-slide" method.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I'll occasionally use the slide release on my Hi-Power because it is convenient and does get you back into action faster (particularly in competition). I like the slingshot though because it works about the same with any semi-auto pistol (no fumbling about trying to find the controls) and for me it is easier to slingshot the slide than use the slide-release - particularly if I am under stress and looking downrange at the target instead of the gun.

[C. H. Luke]

Don't know what your uses are?

If for CCW most of the best Instructors recomend the hand-over
method for use under the stess of Deadly Physical Force.

FWIW, In IDPA, etc., for years have habitually released the slide via the lever as am left handed and come up under the gun after insering fresh mag. Never have had to replace one but the rear edge gets thin enough that you can just slam the mag base plate hard enough to release the slide.
It's a cheap stamped metal part anyway that's easily replace when & if it fails.

[Mike Irwin]

"There are a few combat pistols that have a release located where the right thumb or left index finger can't get to it. But I can't think of any that aren't PPKish."

Handy,

You're making the unfortunate assumption that everyone who shoots has hands that are of adequate size to reach the slide stop on all firearms.

Nothing could be farther from the truth, really.


"Is your last statement implying that you can get your offhand from the mag to the slide as fast as you can actuate the release, or just that the difference in time isn't important?"

I'm not implying that I can do anything of the sort either way. But what works well for one person may very well not work well, or at all, for another person.

There seems to be a serious strain of "my way is the absolute, 100% no doubt about it best way ever invented under the sun any way any how Amen" in this thread.

As for the speed issue, is perhaps a tenth of a second truly critical in all situations? If the speed issue truly IS critical at all times, then why isn't everyone carrying a 20-shot wonder9 at all times?

[Correia]

Here is an idea that is just stunning!

How about everybody experiments a whole bunch, and picks the method that works best for them personally?

I don't slingshot, or use my main thumb to hit the slide release. I use my support hand thumb. When I reload I hit the slide release with my support thumb because A. it is already there. B. I don't have to shift my grip. Works for me, and its fast.

If I'm forced to close the slide one handed I use my thumb.

See, works for me, probably won't work for anybody else. Do what works best for you.

[Handy]

Mike,

My hands are too small for most guns, but rotating the grip is easier than moving my off hand around alot.


I'll agree on the time issue, I don't think it's a big deal. It always looked unnecessarily slow watching someone at IDPA do it that way though.


My main question is why the slingshot method has found so many adherents. It doesn't seem to do anything better, which is fine, but doesn't explain why it's handed out like gospel.

If your gun works, either method is fine. If your gun doesn't work, neither method helps. You have to be familiar with BOTH procedures to clear jams, and one is a touch faster.

[Nero Steptoe]

"I've watched people do a tac-load and try to rack the slide, it's quite funny..."

Of course, you wouldn't use either the slide stop (release) lever or the "slingshot" method in a tactical reload.

[Andrew Wyatt]

It's also assuming that the individual is shooting the a gun right handed. Not all shooters are right handed, and not all guns have ambi-slide stops.

i'm left handed and normal "right hand" release is actually easier to operate since i just use my trigger finger.

I ONLY use 1911 type pistols (pistols with a slide release and safety in the same or similar location as a 1911) and i only use the slide release.


when i get my cz-52, i'll get an external slide release lever for it and use that.


i've had a handfull (no more than 4 in the 13 years i've been shooting 1911's) of failure to go into battery stoppages, and all of them were remedied by a smack on the back of the slide.

my dad uses the slide release 100% of the time, and his commander (which is pretty much the only pistol he shoots) has no visible release notch wear, even after 30,000? rounds.

[BigG]

The original question was one of the guy being told "thou shalt not..." I'm glad none of the ayatollahs of the one TRUE WAY have showed up here!

On another board one of the experts reamed a guy out when he asked where he could get some new grips for his 45 Auto. They are STOCKS, he was told quite stuffily in a half page tirade. :o Who cares?

[Stevie-Ray]

I always use the slide stop/release. In fact my Mark IV has an extended slide release to make it easier. It has gone well over 10,000 rounds with nary a problem.

[braindead0]

Of course, you wouldn't use either the slide stop (release) lever or the "slingshot" method in a tactical reload.

Point is, attempting to use the slide release on a tac-load isn't going to cause a live round to be ejected...

[Charles Guggenheimer]

OK, I am the "prick" who originally posted this reply on packing.org

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your Glock 36 does not have a "slide release" and your continued use of the slide lock lever as such will eventually damage the slide lock lever of your otherwise indestructible Glock handgun. Release the slide by firmly grasping the rear of the slide and pulling the slide as far back as possible before letting the slide spring closed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is the warning I got from the previous Glock owner of the first Glock I ever purchased many years ago. Please note that I did not claim that you can never use it to release the slide, only that choosing to use it as a release will eventually damage the lever, and an indoor range that I frequent has several Glock models they rent that suffer the fate of needing that part replaced.

I still have my first Glock. Several thousand rounds were fired through it before I bought it and several thousand more were shot since I bought it. A Glock armorer has seen it over the years and replaced several parts that were worn or broken, but my slide lock lever was not one of them.

That may not be statistically significant, but I will continue to advise anyone shooting any of my Glocks or their own to avoid using the lever as a slide release.

[seeker_two]

One advantage to the "slingshot" method:

It works on EVERY autopistol, whether it has a conventional slide stop/release lever (i.e. Glock, 1911, etc.), an internal slide stop (i.e. Walther), or no slide stop at all (i.e. Hi-Point, Patriot). One method to train = simplicity.


Try it yourself...:D

[Andrew Wyatt]

*shrug* i don't use hi points or glocks or other pistols without slide releases.

i use 1911s and revolvers. therefore no real need to come up with a universal system that works okay with everything but not perfectly with anything.

[Nero Steptoe]

"but my slide lock lever was not one of them..."


It's a SLIDE STOP LEVER !!!!!!!

[Boats]

Maybe the slingshotters can just do a group SIG purchase and remove the temptation of having a logically located slide lock/release/button/lever/thingamabob.:D