How many 1911s can the market take?


PDA






bigcozy
September 23, 2006, 01:56 AM
I remember back when your 1911 choices were pretty much Colt and whatever surplus gun you could pick up, usually a Remington Rand. Now, it seems that - literally - every manf. makes a 1911. I can't imagine that the market can't be near saturation. A gun that has been around nearly a hundred years, and everyone makes one. As the market moves toward CCW guns, it seems more and more 1911's are on the market. At every price point as well, from $400 up to whatever you want to pay. I have two 1911's, a Delta Elite and a series 70 commander from the mid 1970's. I carry neither, as they are too heavy and bulky for my CCW set up.

Can manf. keep kicking these things our rather than come up with new models?

If you enjoyed reading about "How many 1911s can the market take?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
MAGNUMMAN
September 23, 2006, 02:07 AM
1911s are like women, you can never have enough of them.

Majic
September 23, 2006, 02:08 AM
The reason they are making so many is because so many people are buying them. Why invest, market and try to sell a new model when a proven model has such a large market that is doing very well?

DRMMR02
September 23, 2006, 02:13 AM
I have decided that my next purchase is going to be a Ruger p345 to fulfill my .45ACP needs. It's DA/SA and is easily concealable. I don't plan on getting a 1911. That said, things could change and I might get one just to have one sometime when I have a lot more disposable income.

10-Ring
September 23, 2006, 02:21 AM
As long as people continue to buy them other people will supply them! It doesn't even look like we're even close to maximum density yet :scrutiny:

The Good
September 23, 2006, 02:23 AM
competition is good for consumers

Lucky 7
September 23, 2006, 06:51 AM
MAGNUMMAN: Take it from me...there can be a thing as TOO many woman. Just look at my empty pockets! :p

As far as 1911s, I'm so tired of em...I go with off-beat choices for a reason (e.g. my carry gun....a customized Witness Carry Comp in .45, gives me 2 extra rounds, recoil reduction and burns if I fire from the index :rolleyes: ). Or my other carry gun: a pre-2005 9900 Baby Eagle. I don't dig the mainstream and go against the grain (not a 1911 basher as I learned to shoot automatics with one but can't find a spot for one in my collection for one).

-L7

Ala Dan
September 23, 2006, 07:58 AM
Everybody needs a 1911 in their collectopm; regardless how large, or how
small that collection may be~!:uhoh: :cool: :D

jlh26oo
September 23, 2006, 08:21 AM
52?

loki.fish
September 23, 2006, 08:39 AM
Everybody needs a 1911 in their collectopm; regardless how large, or how
small that collection may be~!

Amen, brother :) My next gun will be a 1911, just not sure which one I want yet.

Chuck R.
September 23, 2006, 09:53 AM
The thing is, 1911s are an addictive habit. Once shooters try them, they’re hooked and, then assimilated into the 1911 collective. From there the “one is not enough” syndrome kicks in.

Whereas, a lot of shooters have one model of X, 1911 folks often have multiple 1911s.

Kind of amazing really for such an old design with limited capacity. But they do really work well for most shooters.

Chuck

phantomak47
September 23, 2006, 10:44 AM
I have often thought about getting a 1911, I have posted many times about different 1911s that I have interested in. BUT I come to here, read posts about problems with Kimbers, how how Colts are spotty these days and I get discouraged.

I fully understand that there are lemmons in the pistol world, but it seems as if (mainly from what I have read here) that 1911s can be hit or miss. Some people love their Kimbers, others have bought 2 or 3 and end up selling them due to reliability.


In the end I do want a 1911, but I guess that will take a lot of indepth research for quality and function.

robctwo
September 23, 2006, 11:25 AM
I was at the range yesterday shooting long guns. The range has a reset steel plate target stand with six plate down at one end. The rifles needed to cool down. I had a couple pistols along. 9mm Sig Stainless Stock and SA 1911 Loaded. Shot the 9mm and the plates went down in slow motion. Shot the .45 and they flopped over good. Both shooting reduced target loads. Found myself shooting around 100 rounds of the .45. Rifles got real cool.

This is my first 1911 and I love it. Bought a SW 1911 Commander as well.

SiG Lady
September 23, 2006, 12:10 PM
Well, I have two of 'em and this is my latest. I can't say enough about the fit and feel of the 1911 and how much I frankly enjoy shooting 'em.

mattw
September 23, 2006, 12:54 PM
As far as reliability and quality control goes... the only company that I trust and will buy a handgun sight unseen from would be Springfield. I love Colts and I just put down some money for a WWI repro. But even the WWI repro, a custom shop gun, had cosmetic issues.

I plan on buying a Colt Series 70 reissue and then nothing but Springfield Armory for the rest of my shooting days.

I think every company under the sun should make a 1911. That competition turns our better products for less money. (Unless you can ride your name and still turn out stuff with cosmetic belmishes, like Colt.)

I don't have a picture of my WWI repro yet, but here is my serious business pistol:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b243/mdw1016/MVC-033F.jpg

Bergeron
September 23, 2006, 01:16 PM
I think that the 1911 has a few significant legs up on its competition. First off, you can get one in any style that you want. Barrels from 6" to 3". Carbon steel, stainless steel, titanium, aluminum, and polymer frames in either double or single stack, in full size, compact, or very compact. Single action or double action only. Calibers from .22 LR to .50 GI. Bull or bushing barrels. Fixed or adjustable sights. Single sided or ambi safties that range from tiny to humongus. Slim grips, standard grips, wide grips. Long triggers, medium triggers, short triggers, flat or curved triggers. Flat or arched, serrated, checkered or smooth mainspring housings to match your frontstrap. Light rail. No light rail.

Then you come to the fact that these guns have been around for almost 100 years. There's a huge aftermarket industry, and there are certainly more pistolsmiths working on 1911s than any other pistol design. If you do get one that won't work, you will be able to find someone who can fix it.

The big draw for me is that if I'm starting out with a 1911, I can have whatever I want.

SiG Lady
September 23, 2006, 02:39 PM
Though on the lower end of the affordability scale, Springfield-wise, I placed a Springer in my 1911 'collection' as well... and liked it!

jungle
September 23, 2006, 02:57 PM
The 1911 is a very popular pistol and it seems to be getting more popular as more people learn of it's virtues. The design is adaptable to a range of cartridges, has an easy to use and tune trigger, short reset, enough weight to make shooting all day easy on you, and a degree of modularity and aftermarket parts that make it fit many needs and desires. It is a mechanical masterpiece of ergonomics and function. Almost a hundred years old and still going strong, it really has no peer.
From a manufacturer's point of view, since the patents have long run out, they can produce a pistol of excellent design for which there is a heavy demand without development cost or royalties. This competition has created the very best 1911 style pistols every built-it has also created some of the worst. There are plenty of excellent 1911s to choose from, they aren't cheap but then they never were when quality was demanded.

the pistolero
September 23, 2006, 05:29 PM
+1 on the 1911 in every collection, Ala Dan. I am already thinking about my next one, and really like the one I got this week too. I recall someone saying recently on THR that 1911s were like "gun crack," and, well, from my perspective that's pretty accurate!

possum
September 23, 2006, 06:11 PM
The makers are finally comming around, you can now get a loaded 1911, for a great, affordable price. Competition between gun makers is a great thing especially, for us consumers! :)

paul45
September 23, 2006, 06:43 PM
Evidently...SA has a couple issues also floating around.....:neener: ..."As far as reliability and quality control goes... the only company that I trust and will buy a handgun sight unseen from would be Springfield."http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k57/paul10mm/SAfailure.gif

larry starling
September 23, 2006, 06:46 PM
As far as reliability and quality control goes... the only company that I trust and will buy a handgun sight unseen from would be Springfield. I love Colts and I just put down some money for a WWI repro. But even the WWI repro, a custom shop gun, had cosmetic issues.Funny for someone who loves Colts you sure seem to bash them a lot. And FWIW I have owned a few Springfield's over the years and they were far from perfect. I do appreciate the fact that through the use of cast and mim parts they are cheaper.
I plan on buying a Colt Series 70 reissue and then nothing but Springfield Armory for the rest of my shooting days.Why? So you can complain about it also? Just skip to the chase and stick with Springfield as there on a pseudo series 70 frame.

I think every company under the sun should make a 1911. That competition turns our better products for less money. (Unless you can ride your name and still turn out stuff with cosmetic blemishes, like Colt.)Well in the end that Colt that's riding on its name will hold its value and with blemishes and all will always be worth more than your Springfield...:cuss:

1911Tuner
September 23, 2006, 07:02 PM
The problem with the vast market for the 1911 pistol is that everyone wants one that is dead reliable...durable enough to go 50,000 rounds without an issue...Accurate enough to take a trophy at Camp Perry...well-fitted and finely finished...and sells for under 500 dollars. Then, when they don't get it, they complain.

The vast market has resulted in a dumbing-down of the pistol...sometimes to the point that it won't make it through a case of ammo without either breaking, or proving so unreliable and/or innacurate that Bunky is soured on the whole 1911 concept, loudly proclaiming: "They're all junk, obsolete POS
clunkers that shouldn't be made or sold any more!"

But, I digress. Why DO the manufacturers continue to churn out so many sub-par relics of a bygone era?

Mainly because they sell like the proverbial hotcake, and because they know that the biggest percentage of buyers just want a pistol "Like the ol' man carried in WW2" and may not fire more than a box or two through it in their lifetimes...and never had any intention of actually depending on it...so what if it chokes once every 20 or 30 rounds. "It's a 1911! It's just like the one that Grandpa used to capture an entire German battalion! It's history, man!"
Or...The grizzled old veteran who buys one and never shoots it...because there was one that looked just like it that saved his life once upon a time in a faraway place.

In short...they know that they're building a toy...assembling actually...and that the serious, knowledgeable shooters and the gunmen who really have a need for a reliable pistol will opt for the higher-end guns...or pay to have them rebuilt by a pro...or both.

Nightcrawler
September 23, 2006, 07:10 PM
I wish Colt would get back into making handguns seriously. They produce far less than most other manufacturers, have abandoned their revolver line, etc.

That said, my NRM Series 80 has been rock solid, and hasn't malfunctioned once in several thousand rounds.

Anyway...personally, I think enough is enough. If one more company cranks out a 1911 clone (naturally with the front slide serrations!) I'm going to...well, I'm going to roll my eyes.

I like variety in most aspects of my life. I think it's silly that anyone expects, insists, demands, or wishes that everyone had an example of this one type of pistol.

That's why I've got to hand it to Ruger, Springfield Armory, and Smith & Wesson. Yes, two of them make 1911 clones, but at least they're willing to design, test, and produce NEW designs as well. (The P345, the XD, and the M&P, respectively....though the Croatians need to be credited with the XD design, obviously.)

Just my opinion. I'd like to see less copycatting and more innovation. But, there's even less innovation in the long guns world. It's prettymuch pump shotguns and clones of AR-15s, and a bunch of bolt guns that are essentially Mauser copies.

There's a lot to be said for going with what works, and not fixing what isn't broke. But I think there's alos a lot to be said for innovation and trying new things.

mattw
September 24, 2006, 03:19 AM
Quote:
As far as reliability and quality control goes... the only company that I trust and will buy a handgun sight unseen from would be Springfield. I love Colts and I just put down some money for a WWI repro. But even the WWI repro, a custom shop gun, had cosmetic issues.
Funny for someone who loves Colts you sure seem to bash them a lot. And FWIW I have owned a few Springfield's over the years and they were far from perfect. I do appreciate the fact that through the use of cast and mim parts they are cheaper.
Quote:
I plan on buying a Colt Series 70 reissue and then nothing but Springfield Armory for the rest of my shooting days.
Why? So you can complain about it also? Just skip to the chase and stick with Springfield as there on a pseudo series 70 frame.

Quote:
I think every company under the sun should make a 1911. That competition turns our better products for less money. (Unless you can ride your name and still turn out stuff with cosmetic blemishes, like Colt.)
Well in the end that Colt that's riding on its name will hold its value and with blemishes and all will always be worth more than your Springfield...

Larry, quit being childish and bringing an argument from another forum into every where you can find me.

I like Colt pistols. I don't like their Quality control. That is a simple thing to understand, right?

Don't tell me what to buy with my own money or how I should think about my purchases. I never asked for your opinion on these matters.

Paul45, think of just about any modern production pistol and you can find a picture of it blown up or and issue that it had. In my experience Springfield pistols have less issues than Colt pistols. End of story.

SRMohawk
September 24, 2006, 03:36 AM
1911s are like women, you can never have enough of them.

No feedback for you, BigCozy. I just wanted recognize yet again how much fun this forum can be :D :D :D !

45auto
September 24, 2006, 09:22 AM
I'd like to see more companies make 1911s. ;)

I remember when Colt was the dominant 1911 producer, not that long ago either, and quality was not great and prices high...for what you got anyway.

Kimber ate them up pretty easily and became the dominant producer with quite a good gun IMO. And then, ;) , owned the market and preceeded with series II, external extractors, questionable quality, etc, etc. Now they have been declining as Springfield grew, S&W and more and more brands come.

So, in the 1911 world anyway, it's not good to have a "dominate" producer IMO...it seems.

EarlofSandwich
September 24, 2006, 10:16 AM
I agree with 45auto. Competition in the market is a good thing. Only drives up quality and reduces prices.
I will be getting in on the 1911 market very soon myself. :)

larry starling
September 24, 2006, 03:11 PM
Larry, quit being childish and bringing an argument from another forum into every where you can find me.

I like Colt pistols. I don't like their Quality control. That is a simple thing to understand, right? I resent the fact that your are calling me childish. The mere fact that you turn to name calling and start using vulgar words in your discussions proves that you my friend are the one who needs to grow up. And FWIW I will post and reply to any message that I choose especially when it is false and full of holes as your posts seem to be. The true facts are The pistols Colt produces to day are some of the finest 1911's available. My point is if you don't like there quality control buy some one else's pistol. My experiences have been far different than yours in regard to the quality of the pistols being produced by Colt.;)

1911Tuner
September 24, 2006, 03:49 PM
Larry and matt..Take it to PM please. We may attack the opinion, but not the opiner. (Izzat a word?):scrutiny: You lads are on the line. Not worth gettin' canked over.

mattw
September 25, 2006, 01:25 AM
Larry and matt..Take it to PM please. We may attack the opinion, but not the opiner. (Izzat a word?) You lads are on the line. Not worth gettin' canked over.

Well said.

psychophipps
September 25, 2006, 02:06 AM
Apparently it can take a few more. The newer S&W and SigArms 1911s are getting good reviews (the SigArms after a slight retooling and change in frame manufacturing) for their price point and demonstrate that the big boys of the last 15-20 years don't have a stranglehold on the market yet. In fact, I'm looking at one of the SigArms Revolutions to be my first platform for a 1911.

Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )

larry starling
September 25, 2006, 12:29 PM
As far as in concerned its over and done with...:what:

KC&97TA
September 25, 2006, 03:13 PM
No feedback for you, BigCozy. I just wanted recognize yet again how much fun this forum can be :) :) :) !

You see Zombies have taken over pistol production... since the 1911 is one of the oldest auto-loader designs around, the Zombies are makeing every manufacture, manufacture them and then makeing all the publications, publish good reviews on them... because everyone knows that a 1911 isn't as good as a tuper-ware Gun and every one knows that Zombies are going to attack and we'll all be holding 1911's that can't churn through a whole 7 round magazine with out a FTF/FTE... and the Zombies also know that 9mm is far supierior to .45acp so we'll all be bent over on that aspect of fending off Zombie Attacks too, but we're slideing one in on the Zombies slowly, the 1911 manufactures are now makeing several different 9mm 1911's so we may have a chance. The Zombies are flooding the market with 1911's that are unreliable, require massive gunsmithing bills and are just plain ugly designs. The next thing to watch out for is the Zombies to take over the FORD Motor Company because they're going to start makeing Model-T sedans again, so that way we won't be able to out run the Zombies in our gas guzzleing Triton V10 Pick-up trucks, when our 1911 .45acp pistols are all jammed up and broken.

But on a serious note: I've responded to a few of these "what's so good about a 1911 threads" before. Kimber maybe to blame for the upriseing of the 1911 the way I see it, they went and started makeing 1911's in the mid 90's with custom features and good looks right from the manufacture, and that caught on and inspired several other manufactures to do the same. You can pretty much set a 1911 up for any person or any purpose. From 22LR to 10mm, from a WWII recreation to an IDPA Race gun. Grandpa's arthritis can't handle 45acp anymore, get him a 9mm, that still looks and feels the same. The versatility of the 1911 allows a person to have thier CCW, set up to feel the same way as thier IDPA or thier Hunting Pistol or thier 22LR Plinker. They aren't lego's like AR-15's but they aren't too complicated to work on, as long as you go slow.

I feel naked only haveing 3 - 1911's in my gun safe right now, there was a time I was up to 4 and I've owned 7 different ones now. I shoot about 1000 rounds a month of .45acp, I think I had a stove pipe back in July or maybe it was June, no it was July... that's when I got my 12 year old SA Mil-Spec Champion and fired it for the first time, after spraying some of the rust off with WD-40 and Rem Oil, it still had the 12 year old originial Recoil Spring, since the recoil spring replacement It's been good, I think I'll keep it even though it had that one FTE.

Sry0fcr
September 25, 2006, 04:25 PM
I'm just waiting for someone to build a polymer frame, hi-cap, striker fired "1911" sans the grip safety. Wilson and Kimber are halfway there...

Bergeron
September 25, 2006, 06:08 PM
In the spirit of what you said, Sry0fcr, I see the elimination of the grip saftey as the next "thing" to hit 1911s. The Series 80, Shwartz Kimbers, and the rest seem to be focusing on doing the job that the grip safety was designed for. In addition to new 1911 buyers who seem to find such devices as acceptable on their 1911s as other designs, old-time 1911 afficiandos like Novak and Cooper are not fans of the grip safety.

I'm not saying that I think all the new ones will be without a grip safety, but I think a significant portion will. This is all to the good, it'll give us more choices.

45auto
September 26, 2006, 08:55 AM
All the FP safeties such as the series 80 and the Kimber/S&W style do "more" than the grip safety. The series 80 does eveything, safety wise, that a "modern gun" does. Meaning, it prevents any AD's or "firings" unless you pull the trigger.

A series 80 1911 without a grip safety would be an instant "seller" IMHO, if done properly. Meaning the "grip safety" would still be the access panel, if you will, to disassemble the "standard" 1911 parts. It just has to made(modified) to fit snug into the mainspring housing so it doesn't move...no "arm" to block the trigger bow, etc. This isn't "rocket science".

I think the 1911 manufacturers, most of them are "dumber than a stump", still believe most 1911 buyers are "traditionalists" and wouldn't stand for it.
Perhaps a "percentage" of the buyers, but I'd bet a lot of 1911 buyers now actually come from other "styles" of handguns and don't have preconceived notions of a 1911. And, many of us long time 1911 users know it doesn't perform any function(series 70) other than possibly preventing you from firing it, letting in dirt and dust, creating sharp edges because of the often poorly fit production 1911's.... would gladly buy one without! :)

Ask me how I really feel. :D

Phil DeGraves
September 26, 2006, 10:24 AM
With Colt, Kimber, S&W, SIG, Springfield, CZ/Dan Wesson, Para Ordnance, Taurus, Norinco, Star, LLama et al building 1911s, I guess that proves that Colonel Cooper was right all along. The 1911 IS the best pistol and all the other gun companies have realized it as well.

Phil DeGraves
September 26, 2006, 10:37 AM
To weigh in on the argument, I have 4 Colt's, 3 Kimbers and 1 Springfield. I will not buy another Springfield. It is a tremendous shooter so I won't get rid of it, but I have had to send it back to the factory twice for two different repairs. A friend of mine with the exact same model also sent his back twice for two different repairs than mine. Two other friends of mine have had problems with theirs. Springfield has an excellent service dept. but I shouldn't have to find that out for the money I paid for my Springfield. I have twenty or more magazines for my 1911s, Colt's, Kimbers, Springfields. The Springfields break. The Colt's and Kimbers don't. In my opinion, Springfields have LOUSY quality control. Give me a Colt any time.

Boarhunter
September 26, 2006, 12:42 PM
Well, guys, I only have 5 1911s (1 Colt original series 70, two Springfields, and two Kimbers...two are .45 and three are 9mm) and I do not see any end in sight to my purchases. In fact, I currently have one of Springfield's EMP (Enhanced Micro Pistol, I think) in 9mm on order, and am counting the days until it gets here.

My guess is that we will see a new wave of 1911s from the major manufacturers coming down the pike, specially sized to take the shorter, more efficient cartridges. And I am all for it.

I just can't get enough of them.

And the more major manufacturers who get into the competition, the better the market for the buyer.

Boarhunter

RNB65
September 26, 2006, 12:59 PM
Can manf. keep kicking these things our rather than come up with new models?

It's pretty cheap for gun makers to make 1911's. No big R&D costs -- Mr. Browning took care of that a century ago. No big marketing costs -- a century of US Gov service and two world wars took care of that. No patent infringement suits to worry about. If you're a company like SIG and you already have the distribution channels in place, all you need to spend is the cost of some machine tools and a few good employees to assemble them and you're all ready to go.

TimboKhan
September 26, 2006, 01:50 PM
I have lone railed against the growing tide of $1000.00 plus "custom" 1911's. For me, I just can't see spending that much money on a gun, and I certainly don't like it when the gun press calls prices like that "reasonable". As a result, my interest in owning a 1911 dropped to about 0. It was never about the gun, it was about the ridiculous pricing. Taurus comes along and offers a gun witih all the popular "custom" features for under $500.00. I just put one on layaway. Only time will tell if I will be pleased with my purchase (although initial response on this, and other gun forums, has been pretty positive), but I will say that I think the market can bear more guns at that price point. I just don't understand how the market can bear more guns at the higher points. The guys that can afford them are probably going to either go with the established manufacturers (Kimber, Wilson, Baer and even S&W), or are just going to spend the money to have a truly custom gun built. Those large manufacturers are able to produce variations on a theme that will satisfy the publics desire for "new" guns for a fairly low cost to them (and a ever increasing cost to the consumer), and as a result, can flood the market with new "custom" guns that can, and will, choke out offerings from newer, smaller companies like Nighthawk. So, to sum up my very long answer to your very short question, I do not think that new companies are going to be able to sustain themselves in the 1911 market unless they are able to produce a competitive gun at a substantially lower price.

nitesite
September 26, 2006, 02:11 PM
I have owned 1911s off and on for 25 years. I've had really good service and reliability from each of them.

But I've got to agree with the OP at least from this one observation: How the heck can you have a Springfield Armory GI .45 in a micro-compact version??????????????

http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/pistols/PW9801LLarge.jpg

I mean, shouldn't we keep everything called GI with pseudo-authentic U.S. grip panels a 5" pistol?

The different configurations out there are just mind boggling.

Ala Dan
September 26, 2006, 02:39 PM
I really don't have an answer to the question 'bout 1911's; but rather a comment.

I feel like I have purchased my fair share; and proly' will buy
many more, as they have become my favorites once again~!:uhoh: :cool: :D

ozwyn
September 26, 2006, 02:53 PM
well.. if the makers keep working on good, accurate, reliable yet cheap 1911's , chances are we will keep buying them. Like any good consumer, firearm owners love a good value. (bang for the buck is much more literal here....)

If not, new firearm owners will join the scene buying them.

You could also argue that the various refinements (optimal polymer design, double stack frames, etc) keep adding depth and variety to the choices.

stolivar
September 26, 2006, 09:50 PM
I have one and it is not easily concealable. I carry a PT145 or the XD40SC when I want to conceal.


steve

KC&97TA
September 28, 2006, 12:37 AM
Not to sway this thread, but eliminateing the Grip Safety should be left for Race Guns or Competition Guns ONLY. I don't want to be next to a beginner or the average guy, or even myself with a 1911 with out a grip safety. :uhoh:

Carrying a Locked/Cocked 1911 isn't to my likeing, although I do it from time to time. The practice of Pinning or Tapeing down the grip safety is good for range guns, but alot of us lower our 1911 triggers down to 4lbs or less, can't imagine carrying a single action anything with the short trigger pull of the 1911 and only relying on the thumb safety. The Fireing Pin Blocks are only there to stop the gun from going off if dropped, that's thier main function, to only fire when the trigger is pulled. A decent gunsmith can make the grip safety short and very sensitive or not as strange to use, for very little money, it is just some stone work, maybe a fine file at the most

Black Majik
September 28, 2006, 12:47 AM
Lets put it this way. As long as companies keep making 1911s, people will continue buying them. And as long as people keep buying different 1911s (the market is HUGE), gun companies will continue to produce them in every way possible.

If you enjoyed reading about "How many 1911s can the market take?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!