XD vs Glock new perspective


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Lonestar
September 25, 2006, 07:06 PM
In the saga of my friend moving from revolvers to a "plastic" DAO type semi auto, I had the chance to shoot a Springfield XD 9mm Subcompact for the first time.

Good points are that the gun is very accurate for it size, the grip is comfortable, and the recoil is slightly less of a Glock 26.

Bad points are the XD SC is a little more bulkier and "top heavy" than the glock 26, and in my opinion the trigger is a lot lighter and mushy-ier then the Glock even though the Springfield web site says the trigger pull is 7.7 to 5.5 pounds (glocks website says their trigger pull is 5.5lb too)?? I spoke to the range owner he says the XD pull smooths out to somewhere between 4 and 5 lb. If this is true the XD definately need a grip safety because the trigger would get unpredictable over time. Also the only way to increase or decrease the trigger pull of an XD is with a trigger job from a gunsmith, costing anywhere from $50 to $100. Glocks' trigger pull always stays the same and seems more flexible with either the standard 5.5 trigger spring and optional 11lb, 8lb and 3.5lb springs, which you can put in yourself at a cost of a few bucks. With an 11lb spring the trigger pull on a glock is very similar to a snub nose revolver (My S&W revolver has the same travel and 12lb of pull). While you should never touch the trigger, 11lb makes it very safe to handle for beginners.

A lot of people recommend XD as a first gun, personally I don't know if that is a good idea. The grip safety is ok, but it is very sensitive. We were able to shoot the gun by holding it as light as possible. That is good for a self defense, but bad if your using it as a safety crutch trying not to put pressure on it while holstering and handling.

Overall I just wished the XD had a more uniform trigger, and the option to adjust the trigger pull weight. I like light and smooth triggers, but a well used XD may be a little to light for beginners.

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timothy75
September 25, 2006, 09:35 PM
I'm with you. And lets not forget the wonderfully effective trigger saftey which renders the gun useless unless possitively disengadged. Who are we kidding here, those safties almost seem like a joke from the manufacturers so they can say "see, two external safties". :) Even if a person picked the gun up backwards they would still perfectly disengadge themselves. The XD has no saftey as far as I'm concerned neither does Glock. Their wonderfull guns I just tire of talking in political code sometimes.

HMMurdock
September 25, 2006, 11:09 PM
Agreed. The XD is a bit more ergonomical, especially in the 45 models. But their "top heaviness", as you said so well, bothers me. I lean towards the Glock for that reason, as well as their wonderful triggers. The XD fans will fight me to death, I know. And they are magnificent weapons. You can only win with either one, but as it was said-- neither one has good true external safeties. I am a Glock man, personally. But anyone with either of these has a wonderful weapon.

TRL

Lonestar
September 25, 2006, 11:37 PM
That is what I'm talking about. I would never give a newbie a glock with a 3.5lb trigger spring, yet people are pushing XD that have a 4lb trigger pull saying, the grip safety makes it safer than a standard glock for a new shooter. With the sub compact models there is no way to handle the gun without touching the grip safety. We tried are darnest to try to hold the XD as light as possible to see if the grip safety would prevent it from firing, and it never happened. The grip safety need a very small amount of pressure to deactivate the safety.

Are the XDs bad guns, heck no, they have similar to the reliablility of a glock, and in experienced hands I think they are more accurate. I was tooling along shooting the XD SC, shooting it better than I shoot my G26 almost as well as my G17, then I realize that my G17 is my range gun that has a 3.5 spring and connector while my G26 has the standard 5.5 spring and definately the XD trigger was somewhere in the middle, not the 7.7 to 5.5 pounds the website says. Sure the XD egronomics might have something to do with it but its soft light trigger is definately a plus for target shooting. A light, soft trigger is a experienced shooters dream, but for a newbie, or in a self defense situation a soft light trigger is a nightmare.

Edmond
September 26, 2006, 12:28 AM
To me, the bottom line safety is keeping your finger off the trigger unless you're going to shoot. It's as simple as that.

timothy75
September 26, 2006, 01:53 AM
I wouldnt say its quite that simple Edmund, Ideally it should be but its not. First off when people are scared and they know there is a threat present and are about to engage in mortal combat, but are not actually shooting at the person yet, their finger is going inside the gaurd. Not saying right or wrong just that it will happen. Second, people with long fingers using guns with small trigger guards will require a second of adjustment while they regrasp the gun after already waiting to react to the perpetrator who gets to act first. A second is a long time in a gunfight and any number of rounds could be unleashed your way by then. Again not trying to argue but if it were that simple all guns would have 2.5lb triggers right? As it is these things are taken into account expecially in guns designed for those who routinely go into harms way, and triggers are usually around 4.5lbs SA for these reasons.

..
September 26, 2006, 04:05 AM
The Croation sensation is worth no more than the $250 they sold for before SA slapped their name on it. Aside from the negatives mentioned, the top extractor and loaded chamber indicator sticking out the back of the slide bug me and distract from the sight picture. Then there are the finish problems. Other than that, they're great pistols! :rolleyes:

jlh26oo
September 26, 2006, 05:30 AM
Yeah the fact that the same gun was two bills less before SA took over would indeed be bothersome; but I don't think it's the same gun, at least regarding the finish issue you speak of. XD's are now treated with a chemical equivalent to glock's tennifer.

I will however second the above opinions on trigger, looks, safeties, ergonomics, height of the slide etc. Just not for me. Doesn't mean it's not for everyone though (glocks certainly are not). Plus, although I'll never buy one, they DO have the xd45 tac going for them- to which glock currently has no answer. Though supposedly they are going to release a 5" single stack .45acp, ie 36tac. I'll believe it when I see it.

XDKingslayer
September 26, 2006, 12:51 PM
That is good for a self defense, but bad if your using it as a safety crutch trying not to put pressure on it while holstering and handling.

Follow the 4 safety rules and both the Glock and the XD are perfectly safe. If you need to rely on either of those weapon's safeties to handle or holster a weapon you shouldn't be handling or holstering weapons period.

The Croation sensation is worth no more than the $250 they sold for before SA slapped their name on it. Aside from the negatives mentioned, the top extractor and loaded chamber indicator sticking out the back of the slide bug me and distract from the sight picture. Then there are the finish problems. Other than that, they're great pistols!

Oh looky, someone making a judgement on something they clearly know nothing about. The "top extractor" isn't an extractor, that's the loaded chamber indicator. The "loaded chamber indicator sticking out the back of the slide" is the cocking indicator. And if you've ever actually shot one you will find that neither obstruct your sight picture. If that tiny shiny dot on the back distracts your shooting, well that's a shooter problem.

And check out SA's website. All XDs made after April 1 2006 have the new finish.

defiant73a
September 26, 2006, 12:57 PM
Some folks just plain don't understand economics.

Company A sells a product $250 and goes bust. Company B sells the same product for $450 and stays solvent. Therefore, Company B is bad????

In terms of actual materials, it would be interesting to see which is "worth" less. I'd be willing to guess the mark-up for both are similar (though Glock's mark-up might be slightly more than Springfield's).

Sry0fcr
September 26, 2006, 12:59 PM
I think the trigger pull is a little bit deceiving if you're used to shooting Glocks. It's not that the XD's trigger gets lighter, it's that it gets smoother. A smoother [essentially] single action pull is of course going to feel a bit lighter than your standard Glock pull. I think the grip safety works as advertised, if you get a proper grip the weapon should fire. I'm not sure if you're expecting to have to give it a death grip in order to deactivate it. :confused:

BrainOnSigs
September 26, 2006, 01:14 PM
I remember many of these same arguments.....against Glocks....when they were the new kid on the block.

I own both (along with Sigs, Walthers, HK, etc) and I wouldn't be afraind to use any of them to defend my life.

BTW: My right index finger is my safety. When the adrenaline dump comes I'll make a 12 trigger pull feel like 1lb.........so the other stuff is a mute point IMHO.

noops
September 26, 2006, 01:32 PM
I had an XD SC that rusted after about a month. Otherwise I liked it ok. But the tenifer finish onmy Glocks definitely didn't rust. Granted, I'm in Oregon...so LOTS of um...humidity.

Edit: P.s. SA did offer to refinish the gun for free, and had excellent service. So overall, I'd say good experience, and fine gun. Maybe not for the non-tropical rain forest though without a slightly better finish.

N

defiant73a
September 26, 2006, 02:32 PM
Yep, Springfield has had some trouble with their finishes, but they seem to have stood behind their product (and fixed it).

Of course, Glock has had trouble with their trigger group (slam-fire and going full auto), recoil spring/rod breaking, frame-rails breaking off, runs of bad magazines, etc., but they seem to have stood behind their product (and fixed it).

BrainOnSigs
September 26, 2006, 02:36 PM
The XD45 and all other XDs built after 2005 have a newer Melonite (tennifer)finish. Springfield addressed the finish concerns.

XDKingslayer
September 26, 2006, 03:47 PM
The XD45 and all other XDs built after 2005 have a newer Melonite (tennifer)finish. Springfield addressed the finish concerns.

Actually it's April 1, 2006.

BrainOnSigs
September 26, 2006, 05:27 PM
Nobody seems to mention a very important point when doing the Glock versus XD argument.

The XD uses a fully supported chamber design.........

BrainOnSigs
September 26, 2006, 05:29 PM
Actually it's April 1, 2006.

My bad....I miss reading that in your post. I knew that it was addressed this year.

noops
September 26, 2006, 05:42 PM
"The XD45 and all other XDs built after 2005 have a newer Melonite (tennifer)finish. Springfield addressed the finish concerns."

Good stuff. Didn't know that.

Noops

Correia
September 26, 2006, 05:58 PM
The grip safety does serve one really good use.

When you reholster, take your thumb off the trip, and place it on top of the rear sight. That way if your shirt or something else has gotten into the holster, the gun won't fire. I teach the same technique for any gun with an external hammer, DA or SA, as it will either block the hammer from falling, or keep the hammer from cocking.

At my shop we sell probably 4 XDs for every Glock. They are popular guns. I put a Glock and an XD in a customer's hands, and more often than not, they pick the XD now.

Funny, how the XD is a rip off at $450 because it used to be $250, when the Glock is the best handgun ever at $500. (when police departments are still paying $289 in bulk) I think some folk's biases are showing. :) Last time I checked, they are both plastic framed handguns from the same general geographic area.

And on a personal note, as a 1911 guy, I have to laugh when XD fans fight with Glock fans over who has a better trigger. :D

Nitrogen
September 26, 2006, 07:07 PM
If you like the idea of a safe-action trigger, try the new M&P; it's got the safe action trigger done RIGHT.

DougW
September 26, 2006, 10:21 PM
I had switched to Glocks about 4 years ago, using a G17 in 3 gun matches. I learned to shoot it fairly well, and about a year ago at a match I won the grand prize, an XD40. I didn't have a .40, so I figured this would be a good intro. As others have stated, I too nothed that the XD40 felt top heavy compared to the G17. And since I wanted to master one type of handgun, I traded the XD40 for a new G19. I have since added another G19, and I don't regret the change at all. I have a .45 1911 that is my most accurate pistol, but I shoot my Glocks extensively. I do recomend any of the XD's though, as they are very nice pistols and they come with some great extras. I think it is one of the best values out there.

possum
September 26, 2006, 10:44 PM
The Croation sensation is worth no more than the $250 they sold for before SA slapped their name on it. Aside from the negatives mentioned, the top extractor and loaded chamber indicator sticking out the back of the slide bug me and distract from the sight picture. Then there are the finish problems. Other than that, they're great pistols!

Hell i hope you ain't shooting at a moving target, or even worse a target that is shooting back at you, hate for you to get distracted! especially if a little piece of metal throws you off!:neener:

Tim James
September 26, 2006, 11:11 PM
I love Glocks. I think they're great and I love the idea of them. I almost bought a G34 but ended up with the XD Tactical for USPSA Production. There are some things that really annoyed me about the XD, like the bad finish (since fixed), lack of parts from Springfield, and top heavy design. The only reason I ended up with the XD is that it was better for me in the most important categories to me: it was easier to shoot quickly and I loved dry-firing it.

Sounds like a winner for USPSA, but I can't wait to buy a Glock for the hell of it. I'm the type that only buys 2 guns a year, so it will have to wait a while. :(

ajkurp
September 27, 2006, 01:18 AM
I love Glocks. I think they're great and I love the idea of them.

Help me out, please. What is the "idea of" a Glock?

joneb
September 27, 2006, 01:55 AM
I prefer the grip angle of the XD's over the Glock. The XD's point well for me, and for that I'm willing to adjust.

HMMurdock
September 27, 2006, 10:07 AM
Ironically, I prefer the angle of the Glock over the XD. And I think the XD was best described as "top heavy", which I feel it certainly is. But I am biased because I was used to glocks for so long that it is simply what I am used to. If I had to start all over between Glock and XD I have no idea which one I'd go with. All I know is my experiences now and I like the feel of Glocks. But to those of you with XDs, I salute you! You can watch my 6 when the SHTF any day of the week and I mean that.

XD vs. Glock is six one and half a dozen another. I think we have pretty good lives if this is what we have to argue about :) Hillary Clinton for President, any one? (KIDDING, KIDDING!)

TRL

XDKingslayer
September 27, 2006, 11:54 AM
Nobody seems to mention a very important point when doing the Glock versus XD argument.

The XD uses a fully supported chamber design.........

Yep. Nobody mentions that. But in Glocks defence, not all Glocks lack the fully supported chamber.

But then again, every XD has it.

BrainOnSigs
September 27, 2006, 01:19 PM
But in Glocks defence, not all Glocks lack the fully supported chamber.


Yeah...just the Glock 20somethings and 30somethings.... :evil:

XDKingslayer
September 27, 2006, 03:42 PM
Yeah...just the Glock 20somethings and 30somethings....

That's funny, though. Actually the .357Sig Glocks are almost fully supported aren't they?

Oregongundude
September 27, 2006, 04:07 PM
I really like the XD line of handguns I own two of them. However, I also own two Glocks and love them both. I think the XD line is still new and haven't stood the test of time that the Glocks have. However, I think there as good if not better is some regards. I could trust either for self defense I like to fire the XD's a little better than the Glocks. However, I hit what i shoot at with all four of them.

:)

mpmarty
September 27, 2006, 05:41 PM
I don't believe SA is doing tenifer (not tennifer) finish on any firearms unless they are sending them to Sweden or Austria. SAAB of Sweden has used Tenifer for over thirty years on all their automotive crankshafts and camshafts. Tenifer is not a coating it is a chemical/thermal trieatment to the top one to three thousandths of an inch which hardens it to about a rockwell 80 (like a diamond) the black coating on the Glock is not Tenifer but a black oxide applied after the Tenifer treatment. Removing the black by buffing etc. doesn't effect the Tenifer and neither does it contribute to surface rust. AFIK the "tennifer" referred to (with 2 "N"s) is some kind of substitute for the true Tenifer process and is not nearly as robust in durability. Tenifer processing is not allowed in the US or Canada but was tried for a short time by someone in Mexico a few years ago. That attempt was made by an auto maker from here in the US and succumed to political correctness that they were polluting the Mexican environment by "sneaking over there" to do the nasty business of Tenifer processing.

Plastic Cowboy
September 27, 2006, 06:33 PM
Another thing to remember is that the XD45 holds 13+1 rounds. Nothing else in 45 holds that much....now I know someone is going to say that nobody needs that many shots but remember that one of the reasons the military switched from .45ACP 1911's to 9mm's was to hold more ammo. Its inconvienent (even if you can do so quickly) to do a mag change when someone is shooting at you!! When your azz is on the line- more is always better!!!

Josh Aston
September 27, 2006, 06:49 PM
Another thing to remember is that the XD45 holds 13+1 rounds. Nothing else in 45 holds that much....

Actually there are quite a few .45s that hold that many or more rounds in what I consider an even more ergonomic package than the XD. But then ergonomics are a personal thing.

Correia
September 27, 2006, 06:51 PM
Plastic, as much as I like the XD45, there are other 45s that hold that much, or more. I've got a 1911 variant on right now that holds one more round than that. The XD does have a great grip though, much better than the 13 shot Glock 21.

charlesb_la
September 27, 2006, 07:29 PM
I don't believe SA is doing tenifer (not tennifer) finish on any firearms unless they are sending them to Sweden or Austria. SAAB of Sweden has used Tenifer for over thirty years on all their automotive crankshafts and camshafts. Tenifer is not a coating it is a chemical/thermal trieatment to the top one to three thousandths of an inch which hardens it to about a rockwell 80 (like a diamond) the black coating on the Glock is not Tenifer but a black oxide applied after the Tenifer treatment. Removing the black by buffing etc. doesn't effect the Tenifer and neither does it contribute to surface rust. AFIK the "tennifer" referred to (with 2 "N"s) is some kind of substitute for the true Tenifer process and is not nearly as robust in durability. Tenifer processing is not allowed in the US or Canada but was tried for a short time by someone in Mexico a few years ago. That attempt was made by an auto maker from here in the US and succumed to political correctness that they were polluting the Mexican environment by "sneaking over there" to do the nasty business of Tenifer processing.


They are using the same process, or at least an improved version of the old one. Form the company that developed the process...

http://www.durferrit.de/en/unternehmen/firmengeschichte.htm


To meet the growing needs with regard to wear and corrosion resistance, as well as the enhancement of the fatigue strength, great efforts were devoted to the development and launching of the TENIFERŽ process, which is also known worldwide under the trade names of TUFFTRIDEŽ and MELONITEŽ. This nitrocarburizing process has undergone continuous development with regard to its regenerability and ecology, and from year-to-year the number of applications is increasing on all 5 continents.

GigaBuist
September 28, 2006, 12:14 AM
Help me out, please. What is the "idea of" a Glock?

Pull trigger. Go bang. Load next round.
Pull trigger. Go bang. Load next round.
Pull trigger. Go bang. Load next round.
Throw across room. No go bang.
Pull trigger. Go bang. Load next round.
Drop from airplane. No go bang.
Pull trigger. Go bang. Load next round.

You do your part, it shoots. Anything else, the gun doesn't shoot and it lives on to shoot another day.

GigaBuist
September 28, 2006, 12:17 AM
The XD does have a great grip though, much better than the 13 shot Glock 21.

A 2x4 has a better grip than a Glock 21. :)

(Yes, I own one. It was my 2nd gun. Not bad, but it's beefy, and I have girly hands)

boomstik45
September 28, 2006, 05:06 AM
They're both good guns. If you're worried about all the "safeties" then you've been ignoring the one between your ears. Even the manufacturers of ANY gun will tell you not to completely rely on the safeties, manual or not. So get over it and practice gun safety. XDKingslayer, thanks for laying down the law. Some people don't even know enough about the product to be critics, as was evidenced early in the thread.

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