[farscott]

I have an opportunity to purchase a NIB S&W 651 to supplement my M63 Kit Gun, but I am not sure the .22 WMR makes a lot of sense out of a 4" barrel. It looks like the velocity of a 40-grain bullet out of the four-inch barrel will be around 1,400 to 1,500 feet per second; however, I can find no discussion about accuracy.

Does anyone have one of these M651's (or the fixed sight version, the M650)? If so, is it accurate enough for a bit of plinking and as a back up for small-game hunting? How about trail use? Would I just be better sticking with my M63? I do shoot the .22 WMR out of a M648, a T/C Contender (two barrels), and a Ruger Single-Six, so I already "support" the round. I just have no experience with it out of such a short barrel.

Thanks for any comments and/or advice.

[VictorLouis]

in pistols is this. It darn near does what Long Rifle can do from a rifle barrel. Based on chrono'ing a 4&5/8" Ruger, I'm inclined to believe that....give or take a couple hundred f.p.s. either way.:)

[9x19]

Elmer Keith was quite fond of his, and wrote about it more than once.

I have a S&W 651, and it is a very capable sidearm, with much better terminal performance than the 63 offers, which lends more confidence against larger critters such as feral dogs, bobcats, coyotes, etc.

[Bullet Bob]

If you shoot .22 mags in a 4" barrel, wear good ear protection!

[Jim March]

I would strongly recommend the 22Mag version over the 22LR, for most practical purposes beyond plinking/target.

There's a few loads that perform very well indeed from 4" or even shorter tubes, esp. the CCI MaxiMag +V and +V-TNT. They'll pull 1,400fps or better from a 4".

[farscott]

Thanks for all of the information and advice. The idea of .22 LR ballistics out of a short-barreled revolver is attractive. Time to call the dealer and tell him I will indeed purchase it.

[JohnBT]

Get some good sunglasses to protect you from the glare of the fireballs it's going to throw. :)

I've had a Single-Six with a 5.5-inch barrel since 1972 and it really is quite entertaining to use the magnum cylinder. Accurate too.

I'm trying to visualize shooting a .22 mag through a 4-inch barrel.

John

[Jim March]

I shoot 22Mag out of a 1.5" barrel.

Freedom Arms "Magnum Mini", 4 shot, one-finger grip. Like trying to hold on to a live rattlesnake. A big one. That's pissed off.

:cool:

[Mike Irwin]

The only real drawback to the .22 WMRF is, of course, the price as compared to .22 LR.

[farscott]

If Mr. March can get results with a one-and-a-half inch barrel, I should be fine with the M651's four-inch barrel.

I agree that the price of .22 WMR is much higher than .22LR (it even costs more than Wal-Mart 9x19 Value Packs), but I guess performance has its costs. On the other hand, I could look for an M940 or a Ruger SP-101 in 9mm.

So many choices, so little money ....

[9x19]

On the other hand, I could look for an M940 or a Ruger SP-101 in 9mm.

Of course, while you're looking for that 940 or Ruger, you can ENJOY shooting the 651! :D

[farscott]

Of course, while you're looking for that 940 or Ruger, you can ENJOY shooting the 651! Touche. :)

I guess I need both.

[Coot]

I have a similar question regarding A snubbie S&W .22WMR kit gun that I came across the other day. The shop's selling it for $300.00, it looks like it's never been fired.

Anyone have any idea if that's a reasonable price?

Coot

[Jim March]

NAA publishes velocity data for their guns in 22LR and 22Mag. To understand the data, you need to know that "Black Widow" equals a 2" tube and "MiniMaster" = 4". www.naaminis.com - look under "technical".

You'll see that only a few 22Mag loads work in very short tubes, but the ones that do work quite well thankya very much.

As a practical matter, a small 22Mag DA revolver can be used to quickly arm somebody whose ability to handle recoil is limited due to small size, lack of experience or physical disability, with minimal training. It's not the BEST solution, but it'll work.

[Mike Irwin]

Coot,

"A snubbie .22WMR kit gun..."

:confused:

The shortest cataloged barrel length I can find reference to in Supica & Nahaus for the Kit gun is the 650 (stainless), fixed sights, and 3" barrel.

I can't find any reference to a 2" .22 Mag. S&W revolver of any type, actually, with a 2" barrel.

In any event, though, $300 for an excellent condition .22 Mag. kit gun is a very good price.

Last one I saw in Northern Virginia was a 648 for nearly $500.

[p35]

The .22 Mag from a short barrel sounds like a .357 Mag- one reason I don't have one any more. Not as cheap as a .22 LR or as effective as a centerfire, so where's the advantage?

[9x19]

Mike,

There's a 2" S&W 651 listed on Auction Arms right now...

http://images.superpawn.com/Production/IMAGES/SuperPawn/items/00/23/00/01/53/361320.jpg

[HerbG]

I agree totally with P35. I owned one of the original .22 WRM Kit Guns (Model 1960) with the 3.5" barrel. It fired an expensive non-reloadable cartridge and delivered .22 LR ballistics. It also provided a memorable muzzle flash/blast! IMHO a J frame in .38 Special is a much better choice. Same size and weight but a superior cartridge that is reloadable.

[Mike Irwin]

Well Gol Darn!

I can't find any reference to it in Supica & Nahaus.

They must have overlooked it, or I did.

[JShirley]

3.5" .22 Mag. Yummy. (Wiping drool from mouth.)

I keep trying to talk Keltec into making a .22 Mag on the P-32 frame, with a 3.5" barrel and adjustable sights...

[Brian Williams]

I have a 940 but I am looking at a 651 4" near me, local place has one for $349 which seems a little high but when I need it ????....:confused:

[p35]

I vaguely remember Kel-Tec or one of their predecessors making a semi- auto .22 Mag handgun with a 30 round magazine, back in the day; never got one but it always sounded like an interesting idea.

[Mike Irwin]

AMT made the Auto Mag IV(?) in .22 Mag.

About as reliable as the rest of AMT's products.

[sw442642]

I had a 651. It was a beautiful gun but I ditched it.

It blasted out tons of unburned powder. Shooting it at a 7 yard target for practice, I found a large spray of powder on the target.

The gun got so dirty after 50 rounds that the cylinder wouldn't rotate.

Given the differential price of 22 mag vs 22 LR, I really didn't find it useful.

That being said, I wish I had kept it just a nice gun. I should have had a 22 cylinder made for it by SW. sigh.

[farscott]

Mr. Irwin,

I found a reference to a 2" 651 on page 209 of the 2nd Edition of the Supica and Nahas reference text. The text says these were made for RSR in 1998 and 1999 and the product code is 103900.

[Coot]

After I pick it up next month I'll be sure and post a pic...

[Mike Irwin]

You know, I really need to get the second edition of the Standard Catalog...

[Jim March]

sw442642: too bad you got rid of it. There wasn't a dang thing wrong with that gun, it was the ammo.

There are only a limited number of 22Mag rounds that work well in a short barrel. The CCI MaxiMag +V and +V/TNT are two of the best.

A lot of people misjudge the caliber because they think "ammo is ammo". NOT in this caliber and barrel length it ain't!

[JohnBT]

P35 - It was the Grendel P-30, made between 19990-95 in Florida. Blowback, 5-inch bbl., hammerless, 21 oz.

Came with either 10-rd or 30-rd mags.

A buddy bought one year before last with 3 of the 30 rounders. What a hoot - expensive to shoot though if you load up 3 mags and blast through them over and over again.

He bought it for $250, shot it awhile and sold it to a dealer at a gunshow for $400. The gun was worth $250 and the mags were worth $50 each.
____

The only way I can shoot the miniature .22 mag guns is to line up the sights and then put the tip of my left index finger on the top of the barrel to hold it down when it goes off. Funny looking, but makes for accurate plinking.

John

[gbran]

I hunt quail and squirrel up in the mountains. Since I don't like shooting squirrel with a shotgun and don't like carrying two long guns, I bought the little Taurus in 4 inch and topped it with one of those real small Tasco Optima red dots. The thing is incredibly accurate and the 22wmr shoots flatter farther than the 22lr. I've taken squirrels farther than I'll admit here, for fear of being accused of telling fishing stories about hunting. They are loud and dirty, as stated by others.