Ed Brown 1911 Hammer


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carnaby
September 26, 2006, 04:47 PM
I just got a new Springfield "Tactical" Black Stainless 1911 and it's pretty sweet. However, the surface finish on the black parts is pretty rough. The trigger feels rough too, like the roughness in these parts is contributing (compared to my TRP and many other 1911's I've tried). I was looking at getting an Ed Brown stainless hammer, and I was wondering if anyone knows if it will drop right in and work with a new Springy, or if it will take smithing?

I totally stripped the pistol and smoothed out the trigger bow and that seemed to help. The pull is a lot heavier than my TRP and I'd like to bring it down a little. I don't have anything to measure the trigger pull with, but I know it's heavier than I like.

Also, in all these threads about trigger tuning, references are made to polishing. How is polishing accomplished, with what tools and techniques?

Thanks :D

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45shooter
September 26, 2006, 07:02 PM
The new hammer may make the trigger feel better, same or maybe even worse.
How a trigger pull "feel" and how heavy it is is determined mainly by the interaction of the sear to the hammer's full cock notch and the sear spring.

You can learn about trigger job on the net but you'll only learn enough to be dangerous. Do yourself a favor and pay a knowledgable gunsmith to do the trigger job.

carnaby
September 26, 2006, 07:11 PM
No worries there, I didn't do a real trigger job. I just took the thing apart, cleaned off any grime, and very lightly polished the trigger bow, which had a much rougher surface than it should have. The trigger pull weight is unchanged, but it does seem a little smoother.

Short of putting in some different components, I'll leave the rest to a smith. I will NOT be changing any angles on the sear, hammer or disconnector. :D

45shooter
September 26, 2006, 07:49 PM
Good boy :D
"Mans gotta know his limits"... I heard that in a movie once :p

carnaby
September 27, 2006, 12:18 PM
I took my TRP and my black stainless apart last night and had a look at the parts. The sear is a little different, being a smidge longer on the TRP and nicely polished on the sides. The hammers are different too. The TRP only has two cocking surfaces while the black stainless has three. What gives?

robctwo
October 2, 2006, 11:59 PM
I bought the SA Black Stainless last January. Terrible trigger. Stiff. Every bit the 6-8 lbs advertised.

I changed out with Ed Brown hammer, sear, disconnector and new mainspring housing/spring assembly. A bit of work, but worth it. I looked at all the threads on trigger jobs here. I am a bit mechanical, but had no experience with gunsmithing.

I also tweaked the leaf spring a bit. Now have very nice trigger in the 2 1/2 to 3 lb range. Gun has no troubles with slide follow or any indication of going full auto. Accuracy is much better.

I found working on the 1911 to be a lot of fun.

XavierBreath
October 3, 2006, 12:10 AM
You can put some parts into some 1911s and have them work without fitting.

If you want the pistol to function at it's best though, consider any and all replacement/new parts to require fitting. A hammer is near the top of that list. It may "drop in", but optimal performance requires fitting.

Learning to do the job yourself, given enough patience, care and mechanical aptitude is certainly possible. Check out Blind Hog's (http://www.blindhogg.com/gunsmithing.html) site as a primer.

carnaby
January 13, 2007, 02:10 PM
The Ed Brown hammer an sear wouldn't work in my black stainless as drop in. The hammer wouldn't go all the way down, but get stuck about a quarter of the way back. Anyone know why?

I ended up putting the Ed Brown components in my TRP and the TRP components in the black stainless. Everything worked as drop in that way, except the thumb safety on the TRP needed some filing where it contacted the sear.

HSMITH
January 13, 2007, 10:47 PM
It was hitting the thumb safety in the springer, that is why it wouldn't lower.

carnaby
January 13, 2007, 11:56 PM
The thumb safety wasn't in, I don't think. I'll double check.

HSMITH
January 14, 2007, 09:21 AM
There isn't anything else for it to hit other than the half-cock notch.

carnaby
January 15, 2007, 11:14 AM
I checked, it's the half-cock notch. Now why the heck does that happen in the black stainless and not the TRP? Any way to properly fix this.

Also, the Ed Brown sear says it's "prepped and ready for your favorite clearance angle". What's that, and how do you put it in? Says you don't need any jigs, since the part is pre cut in the way that you would need a jig to finish.

HSMITH
January 15, 2007, 02:08 PM
Partner, every frame is a little different, and every part you put in them is a little different. Things can go just right occasionally and parts will plop right in and work but that isn't very common, not even with high end well made parts. Most of the time the parts will plop right in and don't work exactly the way they are supposed to, at this point you need to know exactly what you are doing, what the parts are supposed to do, and what they are actually doing. This is the time for careful study. If you don't know exactly what is going on you should seek help, from a reference or a good gunsmith that is willing to share some of his knowledge with you. Diagnosing these problems you are having aren't that hard if we had the gun in our hands, but you are running into some things that just don't communicate in print well without intimate knowledge of how a 1911 works.

Most of the time on a gun like your Springer the sear won't clear the half cock because of the overtravel adjustment in the trigger.

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but if you don't know what the breakaway angle is you don't have any business cutting it. Things can go bad at an incredible rate when you start cutting a sear. If you didn't know that the overtravel screw can screw you, you really shouldn't adjust it. Again, not trying to be a tool, but you need to get some help. At the least pick up the Kuhnhausen book and study it for a while before proceeding. You need to get a solid foundation of knowledge built, and work from that.

I do applaud your effort and desire to learn, no one else started out knowing what you are asking either. I learned what I know about these things the hard way most of the time, long before I ever started on the internet, and I wouldn't recommend learning the way I did. I built guns that were downright dangerous on a few occasions (full auto, etc), threw a TON of money spent on parts away, and went through frustration on a grand scale.

Get some books, and some training. It really is a better way.

Old Fuff
January 15, 2007, 02:29 PM
I second what HSMITH said:

But in addition the company that make the frame used in your TRP aren't the same one that made the frame in your Springfield, and if you think they are dimensionally identical you're in for a shock! Moreso, if you think that either or both match up to USGI blueprints your in for another one... :eek:

Pistols that were built By Colt or other government contractors generally do match the standards, but that's because Uncle Sam had his own inspectors on site. The guns that are made today contain parts that could have come from anywhere and probably did. The better aftermarket parts are usually better then those that come in production pistols, but they can't make up for mis-located holes in the frame, or other outside-of-tolerance issues.

A skilled and experienced pistolsmith is worth his money because he knows this, and what to look for. He also has the special tools, jigs, and fixtures that an ordinary individual doesn't. Just for grins he might even have a set of blueprints too...

carnaby
January 15, 2007, 02:31 PM
Thanks HSMITH, I appreciate your advice. I have no intention of cutting the sear at all, because you are right that I have no clue about that.

Now, I've fidgeted around and found some conclusive things that should help you know exactly what's going on, but I can't figure out why it doesn't work still.

1. When I put the two sears together and line them up on the sear pin, the back of the sears (toward the frame) are a perfect match. The front (toward the hammer) is a little thicker than the TRP sear.

2. The Ed brown sear is a smidge wider than the TRP sear. By about a thou or so.

3. When I ONLY put in the sear and the Ed Brown hammer, leaving out the disconnector, the hammer will not get past the half-cock notch on the ed brown sear, but clears the TRP sear just fine.

4. The TRP sear seems to rotate back further out of the way than the EB sear. This is perplexing, as I noted that the backs of both sears are nearly a perfect match. I can't figure out what is preventing the EB sear from moving out of the way of the hammer in the Black Stainless Springy (in the TRP this is not a problem).

Something is preventing the EB sear from rotating out of the way of the hammer. I don't know if it's getting stuck on the sides due to the extra width (I stoned it a smidge on the sides and took it down about half a thou, which did also clean up the machine finish, but didn't help), or if the sear is impacting the hammer in the front of its crescent shape where I can't see it.

Any ideas?

Thanks again for all the replies.

Old Fuff
January 15, 2007, 03:35 PM
Any ideas?

As pointed out in my previous post, aftermarket parts manufacturers do their own thing. The only common standard is the Army's blueprints, and they are generally ignored. Under the circumstances, why should two sears (or any other parts) from different manufacturers be identical?

The sear is rotated by a ears on the bottom of the disconector, and not the trigger bow. If you leave out the disconector I would expect the sear to engage the half-cock notch, as there is nothing in place to stop it.

Aftermarket parts may not work in all frames, if those frames are out of print when it comes to locating the sear and hammer holes. Some parts are made oversized at certain fit points so there will be enough material for a gunsmith to fit them. Sometimes removing some material is necessary. The trick is to know where, and how much.

HSMITH
January 15, 2007, 06:50 PM
Measure the straight line dimension between the hammer and sear pin holes on both sides of both frames, measure the distance from both holes on both sides to the top of the rails on both frames. Draw a picture and dimension it as you go, this will not tell you exactly what is going on but it will give you an idea of the dimesional spread between the two frames.

Pop the mag catch out of both frames and install both fire control sets including the disconnector in both frames. See if the sear rotates far enough.

If that doesn't reveal anything assemble the hammer and sear on the frame but outside on the side of the gun. The pins aren't really long enough to do this right but you will get an idea of what is going on.

carnaby
January 15, 2007, 07:19 PM
Ah! Good idea assembling outside the frame. I can make pins at school in the machine shop that are long enough for the job.

Thanks :D

Old Fuff
January 15, 2007, 08:06 PM
Ya' can also use drill blanks if the school has any. Might save you some time.

HSMITH
January 15, 2007, 11:35 PM
Don't skip a step, it might be confusing. Measure everything first.

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