CB caps, and CZ musings


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vanfunk
May 13, 2003, 07:23 PM
Well folks,
I just came home with my first new .22 in about 15 years, a gorgeous CZ 452 "Special" .22LR. For those of you unfamiliar with this brand of rimfire, these Czech rifles show an old-world zeal for fit, finish and accuracy out of all proportion to their cost. The rifle is beautiful and rivals my '86 Kimber for the blue ribbon in my collection. Anyone looking for a .22 bolt rifle would do well to look at a CZ. Now the next discovery:

I picked up a few boxes of CCI CB longs while picking up my new toy, and My Gosh My Golly are those things quiet! I filled an empty liquor box with newspaper and magazines and retired to the garage to try them out. Even in the enclosed confines of the garage, these things are scarcely louder than a handclap! My neighbor's magnum .177 pellet rifle is more raucous by a league, for sure. :neener: .

Anyone have the velocity spec's for these little 29 grain pills when fired from a rifle?

Oh, and BTW, did I mention how nice these CZ rimfires are?

vanfunk

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craigz
May 13, 2003, 07:47 PM
I picked up a 452 with a Mannlicher stock at the gun show the other week. A 20-minute home trigger job and a ghost ring sight, and it is one sweet rifle.

http://www.zacker.com/temp/P4280055.JPG

vanfunk
May 13, 2003, 07:53 PM
My Goodness, That is a magnificent rifle!
I'd love to get one of the Mannlichers; it would be like a trainer to my 1950 Steyr .257 Roberts.

Craigz,
Are the full-stock rifles a standard catalog item, or special order?

vanfunk

craigz
May 13, 2003, 08:10 PM
I can remember them being in the CZ catalog at one time, but they're not anymore. I don't know if they're still making them. They do list FS versions of the 527 and the 550, though. This was the only one I've ever seen, and I knew I had to grab it. I literally offered the guy every last dollar in my wallet, and he took it.

10mmman
May 14, 2003, 01:16 AM
craigz,

What barrel lenght izat?

Thanks,

X

Selfdfenz
May 14, 2003, 01:55 AM
I have no data on CB Longs but I bet the manufacturer will give you the info if you go to their website and email them.

I liked my 452 Special so much I just bought my son a Scout.
I may have to buy myself a Scout too and restock it.

They are just great rifles!

S-

For about $149 the Czechs make the Scout (and ship it to the US for sale).

Although they can be had cheaper for about the same amount of $ Remington makes the 597 and they don't have to "ship" overseas.

The CZ is an outstanding deal.
Go figure.

firestar
May 14, 2003, 02:07 AM
I didn't know they made a Mannlicher stock .22! I would love to have one of those. I do have a "Special" or "Standard" or "Military" or whatever they are called. I think mine was called a Standard. They are extremly nice for $196 OTD NIB! That is all I paid to have my dealer order me one!

I also have some of those CB longs. I tried to shoot a rabbit in my back yard today and I missed 3 times! I have no idea where these things shoot at 25 yards but I think there must be a lot of drop because the rabbit didn't even move. I have a 3x9x32 scope and it will hit a quarter at that distance with .22lrs. I need to try some of those Aguila Colarbri .22s.

Al Thompson
May 14, 2003, 08:48 AM
Not sure what velocity those CB Longs are, but IIRC it's 750 fps or so. They do work well on squirrels in the back yard though. Complete penetration on most shots.

Firestar, I zero'ed my 77/22 (scoped) with them and it worked fine. The Colbri's were terrible for killing stuff - stick with the CBs for pest control.

Master Blaster
May 14, 2003, 09:42 AM
You may want to zero that scope.

;)

I have hunted tree rats in my backyard with the cci cbs, at about 25 yards out of my ss laminated 597 with iron sights I dropped three "rats" dead in their tracks. Hit behind the shoulder, on one the CB had gone right through! The dont cycle the bolt on the 597 and they are quiet enough that you can hear the hammer hit the firing pin.

Out of a 14" TC contender they also drop the tree rats, and are very accurate on paper. They are louder from the contender, so barrel length is important to the quiet feature.

Dont short change the remmington 597, Monday I was at my club shooting silouhettes with the iron sights at 50 yards, and I was hitting them like mad, the guys on either side of me were using scopes on their rifles (one a bolt action Kimber, the other a Winchester target model 51?) and they were missing!!!!
I was shooting Federal bulk pack from Wally's!!

The guy with the kimber asked me what I was shooting and snorted when I told him, he packed up and left :D

My 597 is free floated (SS laminate model $195 at my local shop) and is a tack driver, and I have done nothing to it but clean lube and shoot. (You do have to clean the chamber with a qtip &CLP every 100 shots or so or it jams due to the tight chamber)

JohnBT
May 14, 2003, 10:13 AM
CCI CB Longs = 727 f.p.s.

I looked it up. Back to work now. JT

craigz
May 14, 2003, 11:14 AM
10mmman: 20"

Selfdfenz
May 14, 2003, 11:55 AM
Master,

I have the basic model 597. There is a lot about it that I like. The trigger and sometimes magazine not locking into place are a couple of things I think Rem should have looked at a bit more closely.
Mine never jams.

The 597 puts 10 shots into about 2+ inches at 100 but the same scope and mount on my CZ Special puts them in less than an inch. Not quite one ragged hole but pretty close. And its a pretty cheap scope and definitely a cheap set of mounts.

From what I see the Scout is about as accurate as the Special with that same scope and mount. Even though the CZs have 11 mm groves this mount designed for a 3/8th grove seems to work and hold solidly.

I just don't see why Rem can't pack a bit more QC into their products when the CZ seems to have it ....and it appears to me to be more costly to produce the CZ and get here to this market.

I see the "promise" of what could be a dandy 22 in the 597 but some of the design elements and quality issues are just outside the envelope. Just a little too cheaply made in some ways and unrefined in some ways ,IMHO, to be a trusted winner without having to fiddle with it.
Having said that, out of the box I prefer the 597 to any of the stock new or used 10/22s I ever owned. It may not be as dependable or have even a "decent stock trigger"...but the 597 will shoot a prettier group then the 10/22s I have had.
Take care,
S-

cratz2
May 14, 2003, 02:11 PM
Wow... that's pretty good shooting at 100 yards with a rimfire.

If my 452 Varmint can put them into 1" at 100 yards like your CZ Special can, I'll be a happy camper.

And regarding the Colibris for shooting anything living past point blank range... I wouldn't do it. I've shot them in my 6" revolver, my 5.25" 1911 conversion and in two rifles. In a scope, you can easily watch the bullet go down range. I don't have a chrono but I've been told they're a bit slower out of a rifle than a handgun. Granted, the bullet weighs more than a .177" pellet, but the pellet is definately traveling much faster... Out of my guns, anyway.

On the other hand, I can shoot the Colibris or Super Colibris in my 22 Magnum rifle all day with no split cases.

Marko
May 14, 2003, 04:14 PM
One of the early complaints about CZ rifles was inconsistent quality of their stocks. But not so anymore. The latest ones I've seen have all been beautiful, including the one on my 452 Varmint. A buddy recently got a 527 carbine in 7.62x39 with a similar grained stock, only a bit more subtle striping and a shade or two darker. That furniture just oozes "old world".

Take care. Marko

vanfunk
May 14, 2003, 06:45 PM
Nice tiger striping on that stock, Marko!
I just came back inside after firing five, 10 shot groups at 25 yards offhand with the CZ special and CCI CB longs (I prefer the longs over the shorts because they feed positively from the magazine, and for some reason, seem quieter than the CB shorts:confused: ) Anyway, I easily chewed the x-rings out of the shoot-'n'-see targets (1/2"?). The CB's are impressively accurate, and I love the fact that I can shoot 'em all day right off my back porch without offending my knee-jerk reactionary neighbors. I have yet to shoot any LR out of the rifle, but I do have a few boxes of CCI Velocitors that I'm planning on launching through some over-ripe fruit this weekend.

As to the rifle, the trigger pull weight is very, very light. I'd estimate it to be about 1.5 lbs. There's a bit of creep and way too much overtravel for my taste. The trigger is adjustable, so I'll have to monkey with it a bit. Overall, I'm quite pleased with the acquisition:D . BTW, the stock on the "Special" is beech, but is stained at the factory with a tasteful dark walnut hue. After 4 applications of boiled linseed oil, the stock is showing some nice figure and is distingishable from walnut only by a trained eye and close inspection. For anyone contemplating purchase of a CZ, I'd recommend the "special" over the "lux" due to the $100 difference in price. The barreled actions are exactly the same. Gawd, I do so wish they'd bring back that Mannlicher stock, though!:cuss:

Ledbetter
May 14, 2003, 08:54 PM
Sorry. Can't help it.

Sir Galahad
May 14, 2003, 11:25 PM
CZ is the smokinest deal on the market. You could pay more for something other than a CZ, but you won't get more. I have a CZ 527 Lux that is an absolute joy to shoot. Today I brought home a CZ 452 Lux and the quality is just perfect.

Khornet
May 15, 2003, 07:11 AM
29 grain bullet ~720 fps

I've used thousands of 'em. From a rifle, sounds like a staple gun. Great for squirrels etc. in the backyard. I shoot 'em through my Smith Model 41 and Ruger MkII, just by manually cycling the bolt. Pistols are MUCH louder though. Finally bought a 5000 rd case, because my boys use them up so fast.

Al Thompson
May 15, 2003, 08:39 AM
I agree that the CB Longs are quieter than the shorts. Made that mistake once, still have half a box of the shorts in the locker.

JohnBT
May 15, 2003, 09:25 AM
I disagree that the quality of the wood on CZ rifles has gotten more consistent. It is still all over the place. My opinion is based on regular visits to a nearby stocking dealer over the past 3 years. At least 3 years - I bought my 75B Military there in early 2000.

YMMV, but from what I'm seeing it just ain't so - unless half of the guns they're buying are factory seconds - bad checkering, little or no decent grain to speak of and muddy finishes. Still a fair deal for a shooter to drag through the woods, but not a gun to post a picture of.

John

Selfdfenz
May 15, 2003, 02:49 PM
Just two more cents on the fire so to speak...

When I bought my son's Scout I examined the rack gun. The dealer then actually sold me a NIB one.
I didn't even open it in the store as by now I was over my normal time out for lunch. (:p Yeah, I know and you do it too.)
Got it home and was amazed that for a kids gun it had a very nice stock. Lots of grain in the berch tree me thinks.
It's a better looking stock than the one on the shelf and it was good looking too.
JMHO

S-

cratz2
May 15, 2003, 03:20 PM
First CZ rifle I ever shot was a CZ Youth model with a Swift 4-12 scope mounted... very impressed with both the rifle and the scope, for the price.

[digging toe into ground, looking sheepish] ...sure wish I had something like that when I was a kid. :uhoh:

Marko
May 16, 2003, 01:19 AM
JohnBT:

I can't disagree with you, as the sampling of CZ stocks I've seen is far to small to make a scientific determination, and all have been at one dealership. But based on the latest rifles I have seen, my gut instincts tell me CZ's wood has taken a distinctive upswing. The first four CZ's my dealer displayed all had plain-jane straight-grain furniture with rough checkering: one 527 American in .22 Hornet, two .22LR 452 trainers, and one .22 LR 452 Varmint. Since then, there have been two 527 carbines in .223, two 527 carbines in 7.62x39, six .17HRM 452 Varmints, two .22LR 452 trainers and six .22LR 452 Ultra Lux combos. Every single one of them has/had beautiful wood --- some with downright exceptional wood. Of all the CZs currently at my local shop, only the 22 Hornet has unremarkable furniture. I'll see if I can take some pics and post them.

Take care. Marko

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