Mosin safety.... are they all such a pain?


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FTF
September 28, 2006, 01:23 AM
I just got a nice looking M38. The problem is the durn safety... not only does a round have to be chambered to engage it, but it's sure an effort to not only pull it, but to twist it to the left.

I have an 1891, which is not with me at this moment but I seem to remember that safety being easier to engage than this.

Is this common? I've oiled and lubed the bolt and it's still pain. Maybe I just have thick fingers. Tell me there is a way around this... this is in no way practical.

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Jackal
September 28, 2006, 01:34 AM
Yes, it is common. The Mosin Nagant has the worst safety i can imagine. That is why i dont, and have not ever:what: used the safety on my M44.

slicknickns
September 28, 2006, 05:20 AM
What is the point of activating the safety if a round is not chambered?

Cosmoline
September 28, 2006, 05:31 AM
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/Gussick/growstronger.jpg

You wimps. Have American wrists gotten so weak? Just use your arm muscles if you have to and pull it back. The Mosin's safety is an excellent design.

Ash
September 28, 2006, 08:56 AM
For me, the Mosin safety is excellent and very positive. Also, it is very, very silent to operate, especially if you learn the trick to operating it. I can operate it with only my finger tips and forearm muscles.

That it can only be engaged after chambering a round (which is to say, it prevents the bolt from moving when engaged) seems a recent complaint. It is the same as the Garand, which cannot have the safety engaged until a round was chambered, too.

Davis

MachIVshooter
September 28, 2006, 01:46 PM
That it can only be engaged after chambering a round (which is to say, it prevents the bolt from moving when engaged) seems a recent complaint. It is the same as the Garand, which cannot have the safety engaged until a round was chambered, too.

Same with most other military rifles. However, the Mosin and Arisaka have, IMO, the most PITA safeties to manipulate. M1 Garand is by far the easiest of WWII era rifles. Mausers, Carcanos, Mannlichers and Springfields can at least be operated by one thumb, rather than the whole hand. The S-R's are easy to manipulate, but still require complete repositioning of the hand.

Gord
September 28, 2006, 01:55 PM
The Mosin safety is pretty stiff, yeah. Personally, I just open the bolt to make safe. If you've already got a cartridge chambered, stuff it back into the magazine after it extracts.

Wagner soldered a grasping ring (http://www.gswagner.com/mosin-nagant/safe/safe.html) onto his, among other things.

MyRoad
September 28, 2006, 02:52 PM
I've tried to figure out what design requirements would have dictated this safety. Looking at the gun, I would have to say that they were most concerned with it being able to be (accidentally) dropped off of a truck in a convoy at 50mph, and then run over by the next few trucks, before someone stopped, dug it out of the mud, and returned it to service. No little levers here to break off, bend, or jam.

They certainly did not design it for its ease of use or efficiency or speed of use. Must have been something else on their minds.

Carl N. Brown
September 28, 2006, 04:53 PM
Heavy gloves and winter clothing?

Cosmoline
September 28, 2006, 05:37 PM
Just practice and learn to operate it. It's one of the best safety devices invented. It's very safe and can be operated with no clicks or other noises.

Ed Ames
September 28, 2006, 06:10 PM
I think it's a pretty clever "deactivator" device...

The purpose of a safety seems to have changed a lot in the last 40 years or so... quite a few bolt guns (e.g. savages, mausers, etc... I haven't played with many bolt guns so it could be a really long list), both military and sporting, blocked the bolt when the safety was engaged. I've seen pistols that, if you engaged the safety, lock the slide closed so you can't check to see if it is loaded, or unload, without taking it off safe. That's lawsuit material today, but it was an "upgrade" (added a few years after production started) in the 1940s.

Ash
September 28, 2006, 08:28 PM
I own more than 40 Mosins and two Carcanos and I can say for absolute certainty that the Carcano is much more difficult than any Mosin I have. Carcanos require two hands, one to operate the safety, the other to hold the bolt handle down!

The Garand and Enfields have the easiest and fastest safeties to operate (I have two of each plus a 1917) while Mausers have easy but not very fast safeties (I own three, a K98k, Gew 98 and Turk 93). The Mosins are not the easiest and cannot be engaged while at battery like the Garand or Enfield, or even on the shoulder like Mausers. But, they are very quiet and very, very positive. There is absolutely no way for the weapon to fire with it enganged, and it cannot be bumped off by debris or brush.

Ash

R.W.Dale
September 28, 2006, 08:34 PM
While it isn't the eaisest saftey to use it's still WAY better than the saftey on my MAS36/51:D

B yond
September 28, 2006, 09:00 PM
Just practice and learn to operate it. It's one of the best safety devices invented. It's very safe and can be operated with no clicks or other noises.
+1 Cosmo

When I got my first mosin I was also astounded at how difficult it was to engage the safety. But, like most things, it gets much easier with practice.

We have to remember these are military rifles built for Russian soldiers. I've never seen an active russian soldier who wasn't in pretty good physical shape.

I think it's just a matter of us civilians building up the right muscles to operate the safety easily. Like I said, it got easier for me, it'll probably get easier for you too.

Koobuh
September 29, 2006, 08:34 AM
*holds out trigger finger*

THIS is my safety!
:p
:D
-From a SGN article about the Finnish mosin-nagant sniper rifle, quoting a Finnish sniper when asked about how they safe their rifles; the cocking knob is machined down as part of the accurizing process.

Barring just keeping your finger out of the trigger guard... go dig po-ta-toes for five years. That'll give you the muscles you need.

dfaugh
September 29, 2006, 11:30 AM
Believe it or not, I sold all my Mosins, save one (I got on a kick a few years back and bought all kinds of surplus rifles) because of the safety. I consider any gun that must be put into battery, before you can engage the safety to be "high risk". Probably not a big deal, and most people handle it just fine, but I'll take a Mauser safety anyday.

davera
September 29, 2006, 12:18 PM
I used to find it almost impossible to work the safety on a friends Mosin. I'm a deskbound programmer and typing all day does not help much with the hand or finger strength - :o I just could not master pulling the safety AND twisting it to engage.
But, when I learned that you can grab the safety knob with thumb and forefinger or forefinger and middle finger, using your other hand and arm strength to PUSH the rifle away and then twist the safety ... it wasn't that hard to do.

OEF_VET
September 29, 2006, 12:22 PM
If your rifle's safety is painful, go see a doctor. There's no reason to live with any pain in your finger. Especially your trigger finger.

Carl N. Brown
September 29, 2006, 03:23 PM
Carcanos require two hands, one to operate the safety,
the other to hold the bolt handle down!

I wrap my index and middle finger around the bolt handle and
press and turn the safety with my thumb (one hand).

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