.260 Remington


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Stiletto Null
September 29, 2006, 12:07 PM
Tell me about this cartridge.

From what I can tell, punting about the Interweb, it would make a VERY strong contender for a personal battle rifle (I guess it would actually fall between assault rifle and battle rifle in terms of energy delivery...but the RANGE!) chambering. Especially with the new fancypants bullets which have been worked up for the 6.5 Grendel platform.

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Ol` Joe
September 29, 2006, 12:32 PM
It is a short action 6.5x55. Does anything the Swede will do with the exception of MAYBE being 50 fps slower when loaded to equal pressure.

BrainOnSigs
September 29, 2006, 12:49 PM
Does anything the Swede will do with the exception of MAYBE being 50 fps slower when loaded to equal pressure.


Makes it kind of another "answer in search of a problem" cartridge......

JesseL
September 29, 2006, 01:16 PM
Makes it kind of another "answer in search of a problem" cartridge......

Exactly like every other short action cartridge in existance :scrutiny:? How many currently available semi-auto rifles chamber the 6.5x55? How many could be readily adapted to chamber 6.5x55?

From what I can see the 260 offers low recoil, excellent ballistics, and good bullet selection in a package that offers easy adaptation for a lot of current platforms.

I'm sure we could all get by just fine with nothing but 22 long rifle, 45 ACP, and 30-06 Springfield. But what kind of fun would that be?

BrainOnSigs
September 29, 2006, 01:26 PM
Exactly like every other short action cartridge in existance ? How many currently available semi-auto rifles chamber the 6.5x55? How many could be readily adapted to chamber 6.5x55?


My bad.....the assault/battle rifle comment didn't sink in. I was thinking purely from a bolt action standpoint.

USSR
September 29, 2006, 02:11 PM
Stiletto Null,

Quite a few .260 Rem's out there on the AR10 platform. Good cartridge with a great selection of bullets available. Unfortunately, lack of quality brass and factory support are hurting sales.

Don

Stiletto Null
September 29, 2006, 02:38 PM
It is a short action 6.5x55. Does anything the Swede will do with the exception of MAYBE being 50 fps slower when loaded to equal pressure.Except that SAAMI specs are 45kpsi for 6.5x55, versus 60kpsi for .260. :D

Isn't it fairly easy to mod .308 brass for .260?

JesseL
September 29, 2006, 02:40 PM
Isn't 260 brass pretty easily formed from 243 or 7mm-08 brass (less easily from 308)?

Edit: Woops, Stiletto Null's last comment hadn't appeared when I wrote this :o

USSR
September 29, 2006, 04:02 PM
Except that SAAMI specs are 45kpsi for 6.5x55, versus 60kpsi for .260.

The only reason that factory loaded 6.5x55 is kept to 45k pressure is because there are still some single lug Norwegian Krag rifles out there. The 6.5x55 brass is no different than any other brass, and will handle the 60k pressure just like the .260 Rem brass will, as long as you have a modern action. For optimal accuracy, you will be reloading anyways.

Isn't it fairly easy to mod .308 brass for .260?

Not as easy as it sounds. Ask the guys about the "donuts" they encounter.

Don

Stiletto Null
September 29, 2006, 04:07 PM
Donuts? :confused:

Former case necks separating from the rest of the case, leaving rings of brass?

esheato
September 29, 2006, 04:16 PM
See this (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=206418&highlight=260) thread to see the donut misery.

I've seen a few AR10s in 260 and their owners always give them high praises. I certainly wouldn't mind owning one except I'm in CA.

As far as battle rifle goes, I dunno. I do love it as my go-to hunting rifle (bolt-action).

Ed

ocabj
September 29, 2006, 04:29 PM
As much as I like 6.5mm bullets, I don't think .260 is a good battle rifle cartridge. If you're going to use a semiauto rifle that is capable to shoot .260 Remington, you're better off with .308.

Although, the increased accuracy of the 6.5mm bullets would make .260 Rem a good DMR cartridge...

I don't know. .260 is a very odd cartridge. I really admire the concept of a .308 necked down to 6.5mm. Short action cartridge with high BC bullets. But as great as it sounds, it seems like people are trying to force it into an application. Given the choice for a semiauto battle cartridge, I'd pick between 22 and 30 cal. For a bolt action, if I wasn't going for 30cal, I'd probably go 6mmBR or 6.5-284.

JesseL
September 29, 2006, 05:40 PM
ocabj, I'm curious what you think .308 can do on the battlefield that .260 can't? The .260 offers:

Better ballistic coefficients
Better sectional density
Less weight
Flatter trajectories
Only 27% less frontal area than 7.62mm vs. 47% less frontal area for 5.56mm
Reduced recoil


I don't necessarily advocate the military adopting the .260, but I don't see it giving up much to the .308.

ocabj
September 29, 2006, 07:03 PM
ocabj, I'm curious what you think .308 can do on the battlefield that .260 can't? The .260 offers:

* Better ballistic coefficients
* Better sectional density
* Less weight
* Flatter trajectories
* Only 27% less frontal area than 7.62mm vs. 47% less frontal area for 5.56mm
* Reduced recoil


I don't necessarily advocate the military adopting the .260, but I don't see it giving up much to the .308.

I agree that 6.5mm has better BC and SD with flatter trajectory. As far as less weight and reduced recoil, that's close to nil. .308 and .260 ammo is going to weigh almost the same. Granted, .260 cartridges will most likely be loaded with 140-142gr bullets as opposed to 168-175gr bullets in 30cal. You figure in a 20 round mag, you save 660gr which translates to about 1.5 ounces per magazine. Recoil between .260 and .308 is pretty much the same, and that's coming from someone that used .260 in a bolt gun.

I think my opinion is basically that while you could convert .308 battle rifles over to .260, but there isn't a need to when .308 is fitting the bill. For a DMR, .260 may give a significant advantage. But I honestly don't see any use in converting M14s from 7.62 NATO to .260 Rem.

That said, I like the .260 Rem. I love 6.5mm bullets. I love handloading for my 6.5x55 Swede.

michael_aos
September 29, 2006, 07:11 PM
I have 3. A rebarreled 700P, a rebarreled AR-10, and a Remington 700 Titanium.

http://homepage.mac.com/michael_aos/.Pictures/Guns/AR10/IMG_5512.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/michael_aos/.Pictures/Guns/700P/IMG_5468.jpg
http://www.remington.com/images/products/firearms/centerfire/lgsil_700titanium.jpg

Zak Smith
September 29, 2006, 11:35 PM
The major problem with 260 for a battle rifle is lack of appropriate ammunition, and by that I mean plentiful, decent-quality, and affordable surplus. We have been substituting the Australian and South African 308 in some of our bolt rifles, and it is easily good to 500-700 yards.

A practical problem with 260's in semi-autos is that to get the velocity desired, much slower powders are used than are used in 308, and the gas impulse curve is drastically different. When converting an already-finicky design like the AR-10, a lot of care must be taken to make each gun work right. I am not saying they "cannot" run, just that they are enough different that you have to know what you're doing.

In a short-action bolt rifle, 260 REM is about ideal. WAY higher BC's than 308 can provide, with less recoil (I have identical rifles in both calibers). Not so overbore that you'll toast the barrel in a couple thousand rounds either. 260 has a noticable advantage over 308 in bolt guns, and is a better choice if you can deal with the ammo-availability problem (many bolt guys reload anyway-- and here 260 is still more finicky than 308-- worth it, I think so).

-z

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