"The society which is the most free is the one which is most heavily armed -- mohandes gandhi"
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May 14, 2003, 08:18 AM
Dunno did he really say it, but it might well have been during (or soon after) his years in South Africa...
May 14, 2003, 08:27 AM
mohandes gandhi is not Mohatma Gandhi.... ;-)
May 14, 2003, 08:29 AM
May 14, 2003, 08:31 AM
It's the same guy. Mohandas is his name. Mahatma is an honorific title, like the Pope.
May 14, 2003, 08:42 AM
Doesn't sound like something Gandhi would say unless it was taken out of context.
May 14, 2003, 08:43 AM
Gandhi said many things that didn't sound like him, that's why I'm wondering.
May 14, 2003, 08:47 AM
From a TV show..
"you want to see my impression of Ghandi?"
*kicks the crap out of badguy*
"well, if he were REALLY pissed off...."
May 14, 2003, 09:01 AM
I believe it. You ever see the Celebrity Deathmatch time machine episode? Ghandi vs. Ghengis Khan? He had the Khan begging for mama.
May 14, 2003, 09:18 AM
Gandhi said "Damn I'm hungry enuff to eat English food!":evil:
May 14, 2003, 09:29 AM
There is a documented quote by Ghandi to the effect that one of the worst things the British did in India was "...to deprive a whole nation of arms."
I believe he also said that if the choice was between cowardice and violence he hoped one of his associates would choose violence.
May 14, 2003, 09:35 AM
Did he really say THAT?
If he did, he was quoting Machiavelli. (The line in my sig, armatissimi e liberissimi, is Machiavelli's description of the Swiss: "The most armed, and the most free".)
May 14, 2003, 09:43 AM
Anybody own a copy to verify the quote? JT
"Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the act which deprived a whole nation of arms as the blackest." -- Mahatma Gandhi, An Autobiography, p. 446.
May 14, 2003, 10:15 AM
I don't own a copy, but that's the quote that I've found numerous places on the Internet. I've also checked a couple of the sites that debunk bogus quotes and haven't seen that one mentioned.
May 14, 2003, 10:32 AM
I remember reading this the other day but for the life of me I can't remember where. With his history of cival non-violent disobedience, I find it hard to beleive he said that or perhaps it was taken out of context. Mahatma is an honorific term. It means "Great Soul". Before his career as a leader/Icon, he was an attorney.
May 14, 2003, 10:55 AM
Ghandi was indeed the greatest proponent of non-violent resistance, but what many don't realize is that his advocation of non-violence is highly contextual.
He advocated it as the best method in India's case because as an English educated attorney he was well aware of Britian's ideals of egalitarian common law and natural human rights. Since the "enemy" in this case was essentialy civilized and humane, he knew non-violence would eventually work.
I don't recall anyone asking him what he'd have proposed were they facing the Nazis or Imperial Japan.
I also think as an advocate of non-violence, Ghandi also inherently understood the "Armed society is a polite society" as coined by Heinlien. It seems logical to me he'd support whatever created an equal and peaceful society.
Much like the "wild west" as decried by anti-CCW forces was anything but "wild". Arms ownership was near universal, but most violence was actually quite rare, and usually conducted within a minority of troublemakers, corrupt law enforcment, and criminal gangs. The law abiding majority was largely unnafected and their arms served as a good deterent. The stories of wild west gunfights are with us to this day because the incedents were so surprising and so rare.
May 14, 2003, 11:54 AM
"Armed society is a polite society" as coined by Heinlien. Well, since we're on the subject...
This was not "coined by Heinlein", it was coined by John W. Campbell, who fed the line to Heinlein (as was his practice with "his" stable of writers) as the lead in to a story. "What if... a cuture was built on the premise that 'An armed society is a polite society'?"
May 14, 2003, 12:12 PM
MicroBalrog - Where did you see that quote referenced? If it wasn't from a reliable source, then why are we even researching this?
I found two instances on the net. One is on GeeksWithGuns and it is attributed to something akin to a troll. The other is on sodabob's web site (http://www.sodabob.com/Constitution/quotes.asp) (whoever he is), search for "Ghandi" on the page (he spelled it wrong). Note that the quote isn't actually quoted or given a source. It may be the author's interpretation of Gandhi's quote about England disarming India.
It is very difficult to prove someone didn't say something.
May 14, 2003, 12:25 PM
There's so many bogus quotes out there on the internet I wouldn't trust it. Go to the library and check out a book. Something in print.
Try The Essential Ghandi by L. Fischer for starters.
Robert J McElwain
May 14, 2003, 12:54 PM
Okay guys, let me give you a few genuine gun quotes that I like, with attribution.
A FEW QUOTATIONS ON GUN OWNERSHIP
"Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA. Ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State."
- Heinrich Himmler
"All military type firearms are to be handed in immediately. . . The SS, SA, and Stahlhelm give every respectable German man the opportunity of campaigning with them. Therefore anyone who does not belong to one of the above named organizations and who unjustifiably nevertheless keeps his weapon. . . must be regarded as an enemy of the national government."
- SA oberfuhrer of Bad Tolz, March, 1933
"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so." --- Adolf Hitler (1889-1945), April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitlers Tischegesprache Im Fuhrerhauptquartier 1941-1942. [Hitler's Table-Talk at the Fuhrer's Headquarters 1941-1942], Dr. Henry Picker, ed. (Athenaum-Verlag, Bonn, 1951)
"The House passage of our bill is a victory for this country! Common sense wins out. I'm just so thrilled and excited. The sale of guns must stop. Halfway measures are not enough."
- Sarah Brady
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is. . . to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
- Thomas Jefferson
"Americans (have) the right and advantage of being armed -- unlike citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust people with arms."
- James Madison
"Congress shall never disarm any citizen unless such as are or have been in actual rebellion."
- James Madison
Robert J McElwain
May 14, 2003, 12:55 PM
And a few more, since I ran out of space.
"Arms in the hands of citizens (may) be used at individual discretion. . . in private self-defense. . ."
- John Adams, 1788, A Defense of the Constitution of the Government in the USA, page 471
"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. . . From the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to ensure peace, sucurity, and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. . . The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference; they deserve a place of honor with all that's good. . . A free people ought to be armed."
- George Washington speech, Jan. 7, 1790, printed in the "Boston Independent Chronicle", Jan. 14, 1790.