What would you arm your troops with?


October 2, 2006, 04:49 PM
Say you were a leader of a country during WW2, and you could arm your soldiers with whatever was available during that time up to 1945. Could be from any country. We can also include the FN-49 in this scenario since it would have been put in prodution if the Germans had not invaded Belgium in 1940. The catagories would be ---1. Infantry rifle--2.Pistol--The M1 carbine can be put in either category since it is in between. ---3.Submachinegun. ---4.Light machinegun--such as the BAR or BREN gun.---5.Medium machine gun or GPMG ---like the MG-34,42 or Browning machine guns. :D

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October 2, 2006, 04:58 PM
Infantry rifle- Sturmgewehr 44.
Pistol- Colt 1911
Submachinegun- Thompson submachine gun
Light machinegun- BAR
Machinegun- MG-42

AJ Dual
October 2, 2006, 05:01 PM
Actualy, the US was very well armed for WWII. There really wasn't much that needed "fixing" in that conflict, IMO.

I don't think I'd change much from the American loadout other than perhaps the crew-served GMPG. The BAR for LMG was great. But for GMPG I'd go with the 42, just because it's still one of the best designs out there. The 1919 and it's descendants are still great IMO, I'd only choose the 42 to have the absolute best in terms of ROF, ergonomics and barrel changes.

However, even then the Brownings were and still are awsome. I'd certainly not take the MG--42 if it meant that I had to give up the M2 .50.

IMO, when deployed in a ground role instead of as AA, the M2 was kind of like the "American 88", in the way.

October 2, 2006, 05:04 PM
Rifle: SAFN (since you allow it) :D in 8x57JS

Pistol: M1911A1 in .45 ACP

Sub: Suomi M-31 in 9x19

LMG: Degtyarev M-27 in 8x57JS

MMG: MG-42 in 8x57JS

HMG: M-2 in .50 BMG

October 2, 2006, 05:18 PM
I'll play:

Rifle: Garand
Pistol: 1911A1

October 2, 2006, 05:33 PM
You guys really like to mix and match, don't you?

I'm going to assume that were you to adopt the MG42 alongside the BAR and Garand, that you would build them chambered for 30.06.

As much as I love British stuff (the Bren is cool as hell), If I were able to choose arms for my side on a whim, I would equip my troops to be compatible with U.S forces, so that we could 'borrow' stuff from you guys. :neener:

That being said, I would equip most standard troops with something like the STG44, being the most efficient weapon for the type of engagements likely to occur. If more of the Germans had those early on in the war (as well as better cold weather gear and supplies) they might just have taken Russia.

Might being the key word, here.
Invading Russia =



October 2, 2006, 06:22 PM
Rifle:Lee-Enfields in .303
GPMG:Vickers in .303

October 2, 2006, 06:36 PM
Rifle:Lee-Enfields in .303
GPMG:Vickers in .303

I'll play:

Rifle: Garand
Pistol: 1911A1

Rifle: SAFN (since you allow it) in 8x57JS

Pistol: M1911A1 in .45 ACP

Sub: Suomi M-31 in 9x19

LMG: Degtyarev M-27 in 8x57JS

MMG: MG-42 in 8x57JS

HMG: M-2 in .50 BMG

I'm really surprised no one else chose the sturmgewehr as the infantry rifle. It was the first assault rifle, and quite effective, it just came too late in the war for the Germans though, and if it had come earlier, I have a feeling it would have made a much larger impact.

October 2, 2006, 06:36 PM
Rifle: StG-44

Pistol: HP-35

Sub-Gun: Unnecessary. Issue more StG-44s. Knock together a folding stock version if guys need it.

LMG: MG-42 with bipod

GPMG: MG-42 with tripod

October 2, 2006, 06:37 PM
Sub-Gun: Unnecessary. Issue more StG-44s. Knock together a folding stock version if guys need it.

That's what I'm talking about.

The Deer Hunter
October 2, 2006, 07:10 PM
BARS all around

October 2, 2006, 08:23 PM
Pistol: anything in 9mm, isn't importatnt
Rifle: STgw 44
MG: MG42

A MG42 weighs 25 lb, a BAR 19 LB, so why would you want a BAR as a "light" MG if you could have a MG42?

October 2, 2006, 08:36 PM
I'm really surprised no one else chose the sturmgewehr as the infantry rifle. It was the first assault rifle, and quite effective, it just came too late in the war for the Germans though, and if it had come earlier, I have a feeling it would have made a much larger impact.

Yeah, but it had (and has) a reputation as problem-prone and even dangerous to fire. It's no AK-47.

October 2, 2006, 08:39 PM
Pistol: Of course the 1911A1
SMG: Thompsen M1 (Keep something in line with the pistol ammo
Carbine: M1 carbine chambered in .45acp (I can dream, can't I)
Rifle: #4 mk 1 Enfield in 30-06 (Hey, I love my Enfy, and the '06 cartridge)
GPMG: M2HB .50 cal.

And of course a few 03's to various marksman in the company.

Myself being the supreme commander would carry one of those Lugers in .45 auto we tested before adopting the 1911:cool:

Invading Russia =



That, and killing 6 million+ Jews. Imagine the tide of war with all that logistical power concentrated on the western front:what:

October 2, 2006, 08:44 PM
Rifle: MP-44
SMG: Thompson 9mm or STEN
Sidearm: Colt 1911
Sniper rifle: FG-42 or Springfiled 30-06
Carbine: M1A

October 2, 2006, 08:50 PM
Rifle - STG44
Carbine - Why if my troops are in an area they need a gun they get an STG44 and a sling.
HMG - MA Deuce
Pistol - 1911
Sniper Rifle - Enfield

Screw logistics :D

October 2, 2006, 08:55 PM
the Garand was the best battle rifle in WWII hands down.

for pistol the 1911 .45 without a doubt the best,though I really like shooting a P38 but would rather have a .45ACP.

aperature sights I feel are superior so for bolt action either the Enfield .303 or M1903a3.

My understanding is the Germans respected the M2 .50 ALOT.And the allies feared and respected the MG42.

of all the countries involved it seems the Japanese had the most inferior weapons.Mix matching cartridges was mentioned and the Japanese did that which was a problem for logistics.

Im just glad we won!hope carnage never happens again on that scale.

October 2, 2006, 09:03 PM
the Garand was the best battle rifle in WWII hands down.

Just to play devil's advocate the Garand was probably the best mass produced rifle of the war. The STG 44 on the other hand was the face of things to come and its basic premise is still in use today. The biggest problem the STG 44 had was getting enough of them built and into the troops hands, that went for the magazines as well. Would the German army have fielded the STG44 as its standard infantry arm, with adequate magazines etc. I suspect we would be looking at the arms of WWII differently. I am not saying it would have changed the outcome of the war but I think it would have changed a few battles.


October 2, 2006, 09:05 PM
pistol: glocks, 92fs, 1911
rifle: ar15, mp5, m1 garand

October 2, 2006, 09:13 PM
I agree cslinger,Im basing my response on pitting the Garand against bolt action rifles used.

Im glad the Germans were not able to field a few of their wonder weapons in mass,on the ground and in the air.

Im glad that for the most part the allies had better leadership.

Im glad we dropped the Abomb,Im not glad we had to but it ended the war,and The axis powers would have used one without a thought if they could have.

hope the shtf will never happen again.

October 2, 2006, 09:54 PM
hey,just a plug for a thread I made in case you did'nt see it.:D


October 2, 2006, 10:02 PM
the Garand was the best battle rifle in WWII hands down.

It was inferior to the Sturmgewehr, but the StG didn't see enough action to become that popular. The AK-47 design was derived from it, as were most military rifles built today.

Yeah, but it had (and has) a reputation as problem-prone and even dangerous to fire. It's no AK-47.

It wasn't an AK-47, but it had 3-4 times the capacity of a Garand, had detachable magazines, and could be fired easily on fully automatic. I have a feeling that if this rifle was deployed by the Germans from the start of the war and throughout, the Garand would have been thought of as inferior looking back.

As someone else said, it wouldn't have changed the outcome of the war, but it might have changed our outlook on the firearms.

October 2, 2006, 11:35 PM
Rifle: Armalite AR-10 Carbine

Sidearm: S&W 1006


SG: Remington 11-87 police


HMG: What else? Ma-Duece.


sorry, didn't catch the WWII bit.

Regarding that, I don't think our boys could have been better armed (though the MG-42 was arguably superior to our M2 .30's/1919's).

October 2, 2006, 11:59 PM
The STG 44 was an IMPORTANT and INFLUENTIAL firearm, one of the most important of the 20th century. But it does not enjoy a good reputation as far as its actual service history. The receivers weren't strong enough, the design was far too heavy and breakdowns were common. Part of the reason so many here are listing it is because so few have actually shot one :D Innovation isn't everything. I chose my firearms because they have a proven track record in the field of extreme toughness and popularity with the troops. The SAFN obviously never served in WWII, but I've owned it and shot it and it has all of Saive's genius in it. It's as tough as the FN-FAL and twice as elegant.

October 3, 2006, 12:14 AM
Lets see:
Service rifle: FG-42
Pistol: M1 Carbine... That's what it was designed for.
HMG: Krupnokalibernyj Pulemet Vladimirova 14.5mm

October 3, 2006, 12:14 AM
57mm M18
Browning HP
Sniper '03
MG 42

October 3, 2006, 01:08 AM
woops misunderstood the question

I would arm everyone with full auto M1 carbines. And toss in a few garands per squad to provide long range ability. And at least 2 bazookas per squad.

October 3, 2006, 01:13 AM
What, nobody likes Japanese infantry weapons.:eek: They really do suck.:neener:

4v50 Gary
October 3, 2006, 01:14 AM
Sturmgewehr MP-44 is my first choice. FG-42 (later model) my second choice for rifle.
Russian PPsH submachinegun with its high capacity magazine. Cheap and easier to make than the venerable Thompson. Lighter too so your soljers can carry more ammo.
MG-42 for light machine gun. A real bullet hose.
M-2 for heavy machine gun. When you have to punch through concrete.
Pistol? I like the 1911 of course (so what if the pistol ammo and smg ammo aren't compatible. It's my army, my loyal troops will have to worry about that).
Sniper Rifle: No 4 MK 1(T). Rugged w/decent scope for its time. Highly accurate. Runner up would be the Moisin Nagant 91/30 with PEM scope. Forget the M1903A4. That sorry Weaver M73B scope SUCKED.

October 3, 2006, 03:41 PM
I can't lay aside my fave WW2 weapon, the BAR so I'd issue it like the Marines did at 2-3 per sqaud alongside the M-1 rifle. One Designated marksman per sqaud has an M1C sniper rifle. (Note just after the war there was an attempt to make the M1 use BAR magazines, that would have been a substantial advantage if it worked)

I'd drop the M-1 Carbine in favor of a cheap easy to produce smg on the lines of a STEN or PPSH or Grease Gun in .45 cal, to go alongside the issued .45 cal 1911a1 or 1917 series revolver. Bottom line is though, if the troops want a pistol they can have one, I'll be happy to look the other way if a soldier picks up a captured pistol, and even let him take it home hassle free. You could even bring your own but you better bring your own ammo if it's not 45 acp. The thompson was cool but it was pricy and heavy. The carbine was a stop gap to replace a $$ to produce pistol, not a mainline rifle. So a cheap as all heck burp gun should do the trick.

Medium MG = 30-06 cal MG42. (if it were possible, the quick change barrel is the key here)

Heavy MG = Ma Duece

that would allow me only 2 kinds of ammo to worry about, and only 1 kind of rifle mag and 1 kind of smg mag.

Truth is, had the technological advances of the STG 44 happned in the 30's MOST countries would have fielded a similar rifle, short action, select fire intermediate cartridge and done away with the SMG completely. The US rifle would look more like a Mini-30 than an M1 carbine, based on a cut-down 30-06 round. SMG's or SAWs would be heavier barrel versions of existing rifles ala AK/RPK. Handguns would be mostly an afterthought, though the BHP would have certainly caught on as THE pistol of european nations. US troops would still pack a .45.

October 3, 2006, 05:37 PM
1. M1A1 Carbine=pistol
2. K-31
3. PPSh
4. BAR
5. MG-42

Mix'N'Match calibres, of course.

October 3, 2006, 05:53 PM
really what this is doing is letting members list their favorite weapons and what they considered the best.

to answer the question a little more realistic,the question would be who do you consider had the superior smallarms of WWII?Which overall I'd say the Americans.

Tanks,well that would be another matter.

October 3, 2006, 06:47 PM
ok, for mine, I would try to simplify logistics for US forces:

Service Rifle: M1 Garand (rechambered in 8mm Mauser)
Sniper Rifle: Kar98k (8mm Mauser)
LMG: MG42 (8mm Mauser)
HMG: M2 (.50BMG)
SMG: PPSH-41 (rechambered in .45acp)
Pistol: 1911 (.45acp)

I would have included the stg44, but due to reliablity problems, and its appearance late in the war, I don't think it would have had the bugs worked out like the M1 Garand. I like the 8mm Mauser round due to its powerful ball loading (greater than .30-06 M2 ball) and slightly wider diameter bullet. Up to company-level, these weapons in these chamberings would simplify logististics greatly, meaning other than the crew-served M2 Browning heavy machinegun, only 2 calibers would be used by servicemen in all weapons, making ressupply easier.

October 4, 2006, 02:18 AM
Rifle: M1 Garand .30-06
LMG/GPMG: MG42 .30-06
SMG: M3 Greasegun .45ACP
Pistol: M1911A1 .45ACP

In my army there'd be no M1 carbine. It would just simplify logistics to issue M3s instead.

May 25, 2007, 04:24 AM
I am not so sure we had better leadership. I think the german generals were quite good. They just had Hitler and were outnumbered on a massive scale.

I am not sure I would want to change any or the weapons as that would be tempting fate.

We did have a huge amount of variety and that was both good and bad. Every squad had long range reach and at least the capability to fight close.

If we had less variety we could have cranked out more stuff but we ended up making too much stuff as it is. Logistics would have been eased with less variety but in some ways I think the variety made our forces more dangerous to the enemy.

May 25, 2007, 06:50 AM
I just know Im going to get some flack for this...

1. Infantry rifle- Probably the M1 - if the Surm 44 isn't available. :P Of course, that provides an entirely different ammunition logistics problem... and it depends on what kind of infantry I want to have, too (ones that can shoot, or ones that can not)? It all depends on my country's culture and military training. :P

2.Pistol- The 1911; I can't think of a better-suited weapon for the role. An M1 Carbine would just get in the way for officers who need their hands for other things.

3.Submachinegun - PPSh-41, working from the basis that a submachine gunner is going to be primarily tasked with providing moving cover fire, and an enemy soldier isn't going to care much if the bullet hitting him is a fast, .30 cal or a slow, .45 cal. :P But the soldier carrying the ammo, probably will prefer the smaller bullets. And the gun itself isn't as heavy or awkward as a Thompson.

Alternatively, an M3 in .45.

I've no thoughts on the machine guns, other than that I'm undecided and conflicted. On one hand, the Germans (supposedly) had the best machine guns during WWII, because they were a large part of their focus. For us, however, they were an after thought; HOWEVER, JMB designed our's, which is a point of conflict, because we all know that JMB didn't design junk. :P

May 25, 2007, 10:24 AM
Each man would have an MG-34 duct taped to each arm. To allow this they would have to train in the gym during boot camp to build up bicep and upper body strength.

A second man would follow him to help feed, reload, carry extra belts, etc... he would carry a Tokarev so he could shoot himself in case he were about to be taken prisoner. :)

May 25, 2007, 10:59 AM
Infantry rifle- Mosin Nagant
Pistol- Luger
Submachinegun- PPSH
Light machinegun- MP44
Machinegun- MG-42

May 25, 2007, 04:04 PM
Infantry Rifle-SKS Tough, and better suited to a light squad then even the Garand IMO. STG would be best, but it had its problems.
Subgun-PPSH For use with Sniper and MG crews
DMR-M1c w/ 4x scope, issued fairly heavily
Sniper Rifle-03 Springfield w/ Unertyl 8x
SAW-BAR Issued more like the Marines then the Army.
MG-MG-42 Centerpiece of unit
HMG-M2 Germans didnt have any real counterpart, the russian design is good but a little heavy for a mobile unit.
Tactics based around MG's, NOT rifle squads.

May 25, 2007, 04:22 PM
All my troops would be armed with "a phased plasma pulse-laser in the forty watt range."

May 25, 2007, 04:54 PM
Infantry Rifle: M1 Garand in the original chambering of .276
Pistol: Radom in .45 ACP
SMG: PPsh41 in 7.62x25
LMG: Bren in .276
GPMG: MG-42 in .276

Never said the country I was leading was the United States, therefore I have no qualms about not using the nonexistent stockpile of .30-06 I don't already have during the Depression my country is not in. ;) :D

Radoms, because I think they're cool. :) Same with the PPsh41.

May 25, 2007, 06:20 PM
I am surprised at all the people who picked the BAR. You have an overly complex support weapon with a very limited magazine that you couldn't switch out the barrel when its heated up making the time it can fire fairly limited.

The BAR was good for WW1 but by the time WW2 came around its really outdated and used primarly because they didn't bother creating anything better.

Though for your game I would say the following.

The StG44 or even the SKS as the primarly infantry weapons (though maybe stick on better sights on the last).

Pistol: Probrobly the M1911a1.

LMG: Bren. Portability of the BAR with none of the problems associated and with a larger magazine, barrel changing ability and a design that would stay in use into the Gulf War.

HMG: The M2. Nothing quite compares to it.

SMG: Suomi KP/-31. Had all the firepower of the Thompson but far more reliable and tougher to break with a massive magazine and much lighter too. If they could have cleaned up the STEN's magazines that would have been higher up too.

May 25, 2007, 08:28 PM
A few Welrod pistols is all they would need. And I would send them after the parasitic classes, not to pointlessly kill millions of civilians and draftees.

Here's a review of Killing Hitler (http://www.lewrockwell.com/walker/walker21.html), for those who haven't read it.

Number 6
May 26, 2007, 12:16 AM
Rifle- SAFN
Pistol- Browning Hi-Power
SMG- PPSh-41
LMG- Fusil Automatique Modele 1930 (Modifed BAR by FN)

May 26, 2007, 12:24 AM
wow, an old one!

:P I'd figure out how to issue
I vote FG42
some sort of 12 rounded K31 esque monstrosity
something like a thompson, but in 7.62x25; and with more ergonomics in mind
totally reinvented nambu in like 7.62x25

Course, if it were really my own fantasy, my armies would use Blastec E-11s and ride bears that spit fire.

May 26, 2007, 02:42 PM
Say you were a leader of a country during WW2, and you could arm your soldiers with whatever was available during that time up to 1945. Could be from any country.

1. Infantry rifle -- M1 Garand. It was, hands down, the best battle rifle of it's time. Just to throw some gas on the fire, the StG 44 is not a battle rifle. Even its name declares it an assault rifle, so it's not even in competition with the M1 as a battle rifle. But I would stick to arming my troops with a battle rifle.

2.Pistol -- LOL 1911A1, as if you even have to ask. . .:neener:

3.Submachinegun. -- It's a little nebulous, but the M2 Carbine. Entered service a few months after the StG44. 30 round magazine, full auto capable, and the round runs a little less than 100 fps slower than the 8mm short. Could be called an SMG, or an assault rifle.

4.Light machinegun -- Mmm, have to go with the BREN here

5.Medium machine gun or GPMG -- MG-42, preferrably in .30'06. It's strong enough for the conversion seeing as how the 7.92 JS was more powerful than the '06.


6.Heavy Machinegun -- M2 OF COURSE!!

May 26, 2007, 05:53 PM
How about:

Pistol: P-35 Hi-Powers with the detachable buttstock...added effectiveness.

SMG: PPSH-41 -- Issued to 50% of the the troops.

Trench Shotgun: Winchester 1897 w/ Bayonet

Battle Rifle/Designated Marksman Rifle--- M1C Garand

Sniper Rifle --- Scoped K31's

Light Machine Gun- MG-42

Heavy Machine Gun- M2 Browning

May 26, 2007, 06:18 PM
Service rifle: FG-42
LMG: Bren in 8mm Mauser
SMG: ppsh-43
Side arm: ppsh-43

Actually I'd pick this mix for NOW as well.

May 26, 2007, 06:23 PM
Might being the key word, here.
Invading Russia =



I agree and when I spent 8 years in Germany, I had lots of discussions with German veterans. They also stated that if Germany would have kept their pact with Russia and not attacked that the outcome would/could have been a lot different. I mean I am glad that this never happened but it would be a different world today if they would not have invaded Russia

May 26, 2007, 06:24 PM
I thing we are armed well enough. I would allow out troops to shoot first and ask questions later.

Janos Dracwlya
May 26, 2007, 06:44 PM
I'll play.

Battle rifle: FG-42 or FN-49 with removable magazine, either in 8x57 mm

Sniper/Designated Marksman rifle: Too many good choices in either semi-automatic or bolt action. Perhaps I'd just issue tuned-up versions of the battle rifle with scopes.

SMG: PPsH-41 in 9 mm or Lanchester (always been a big fan of the Bergman MP-18 and its descendants)

Sidearm: Browning Hi Power in 9 mm. The should stock/holster would be an option for non-combat personnel

I might consider 7.62x25 mm for pistol/SMG caliber, if I could get the BHPs in that caliber...

MG: MG-42

HMG: Browning M2

Now, if I could get StG-44's that would work right, I might issue those in place of SMG's and a large portion of the battle rifles.

What if... is almost always lots of fun.

May 26, 2007, 06:54 PM
As for America I would say we were very well armed. We have better small arms than the Germans did especially later in the war. However TANK wise I think we could have used a couple of Tigers and Panthers on our side.

May 26, 2007, 06:56 PM
Seems like French and Japanese weapons just ain't up to par ;)

May 26, 2007, 07:30 PM
Rifle: SAFN in .30.06 (I'm dubious about the reliability and accuracy of the Stgw. 44 - also about ammo consumption of relatively poorly trained troops, ammo incompatability, especially in a war with poor supply lines by today's standards, poor sights and a long magazine making it difficult to use when prone)

Pistol: Colt 1911A1 in .45 ACP (no rivals)

Sniper rifle: Springfield M1903A4 in .30-06 (but try and get some better optics for it)

LMG: BAR M1918A2 in .30-06 (I would prefer the Bren gun, but ammo would be incompatible with the rifles)

GPMG: Browning M1919A6 (I would prefer the MG42, but again, ammo would be incompativle)

HMG: Browming M2 in .50 BMG (who would argue otherwise?)

SMG: PPsH 41 in .30 Mauser (incompatible with pistol ammo, but pistols will be rarely used and don't need much ammo)

In fantasy land:

SAFN in .30-06
Colt .45
Swiss K31-55 in .30-06
Bren gun in .30-06
MG42 in .30-06
Browning M2 in .50 BMG
PPsH 41 in .45 ACP

May 26, 2007, 09:11 PM
I'll play as the Kuomintang

Rifle: M-14 shortened for smaller statures and chambered in 6.5x50mm KMT (basically a 6.5mm Arisaka with 6.5mm Grendel ballistics and without the semi-rim while still being compatible for battlefield pickups. If SAFN-49 and StG44 are allowed I see no reason an upgraded Garand like the M-14 or BM59 can't be in)
LMG: same as rifle

Sniper Rifle: Mauser 98, I'd have tons lying around from our old alliance with the germans and they are the most accurate rifle of the period I believe.
GPMG: MG42, austria still uses them.
Handgun: Shansei 18 (a select fire C96 Mauser copy in .45acp)
Carbine: Shansei 18 with shoulder stock and long barrel
SMG: Shansei 18 with shoulder stock and extended mags

May 26, 2007, 10:43 PM
Handgun USA 1911 Colt .45ACP
Handgun non USA P-35 Browning 9mm with stock and holster
Rifle USA M-1 Garand .30-06
Rifle non USA German FG-42 with scope
SMG USA 1928 or M1 Thompson
SMG non USA either a Suomi or MP 38 / MP40
LMG BREN MK in .30-06 or 8mm and not in .303 British caliber
MMG MG-34 in .30-06 or 8mm issued with both bipod and the tripod and optics.
HMG M-2 Browning .50 BMG

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