[Peter M. Eick]

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/brass_split.jpg

I tried out my new 357 Maximum today and I suffered about a 20% failure rate of new Remington Brass from Midway. As you can see in the picture most are body splits. The load was the starting 357 Maximum load for h4227 in the Seirra manual. Unfortunately I have the other 300 rnds of the brass loaded with more H4227 and IMR 4227 along with some 2400 so I am sort of stuck. I am going to have to shoot them to get the brass free.

So what happened here?

I assume (guess) that the brass was poorly made and was not annealed enough. I am assuming that my fix will be to shoot out the rest of the reloads and then anneal out all the surviving cases or just buy more new and anneal them prior to loading them.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/flame_cut1.jpg
As an aside, here is what 200 rnds of 4227 with a 158 can do to a Super Ruger Maximum. This is with a coating of pencil lead prior to shooting. 200 grn lead here I come!

[Jim Watson]

Worth a try, I guess, but brass that splits halfway back on the first firing probably needs more than annealing. Like "Dear Mr Remington, and you, too, Mr Peters, please take this junk back and send me some that works."

[LeonCarr]

+1 on sending them back to the factory.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[Peter M. Eick]

Well I hit Remington's web site and I did not see an obvious spot to email them. I then emailed Midway customer service (since I bought it there) and politely asked for their help in approaching Remington. I figured they might help out since they were the reseller, but I realize it is not their fault.

I agree that something more is probably wrong then just annealing. I have been racking my brain about what body splits mean, but I cannot remember what is the source.

[Ben Shepherd]

Remember my posts/threads on my 357 Max? That I was suspecting the #@% %$&* remington brass? Now you know why.

Years ago, after MANY case failures in straightwall pistol calibers, and accuracy problems I threw ALL my remington pistol brass(NOT a small amount:cuss: ) out.

Now it seems you and I are stuck again. You have splitting brass, and I can't get a load to shoot accurately to save myself.


How was your accuracy?

ATTENTION ALL 357 MAX OWNERS ON THR:

ANYONE INTERESTED IN A GROUP BUY OF BRASS IF I CAN TALK STARLINE INTO MAKING IT FOR US?

Serious, I've friggin' had it with remington brass and I want to shoot my 357 max blackhawk. However, as posted above, good brass is, at present, impossible to buy. At this point I don't know what else to do.

[raz-0]

http://www.remington.com/about/company_information.asp

start calling as seems appropriate. I wouldn't bother with email.

something is very wrong with that brass.

[Peter M. Eick]

Well Midway came right back and offered to trade or credit. They also gave me the 800 number to Remington which I will call tomorrow. and talk to them about it.

Accuracy was terrible as a matter of fact. I was not going to mention it because I did so poorly and I assumed it was just new gun issues. I did find that with 357 Mag brass I was much more accurate. It is a very fun gun to shoot don't you agree? I had a "blast" with it but I will say it gets quite hot!

I would be interested in a starline brass order if you want to try and talk them into it. They used to make Max brass and maybe they will make another run of it.


Right now you are sort of stuck. Remington makes the only Max brass so you have to live with the results.

[Ben Shepherd]

Peter M. Eick: A favor please?

Tell them you ARE NOT the only one with these issues. I am VERY interested in what they have to say!!

As for the possible starline order? How much brass are you thinking of? I'm seriuosly thinking about 5,000 or more for myself. Better chances they'll do it. And that way all my brass should be consistent.

[gandog56]

ANYONE INTERESTED IN A GROUP BUY OF BRASS IF I CAN TALK STARLINE INTO MAKING IT FOR US?

I would be.

[flutedchamber]

This may be a dumb question, but have you checked the sizes of your chambers to see if they are oversize? The reason I ask is I have used Remington 357 max in a Contender with no problems at all. However, the brass was bought almost 17 years ago, also from Midway. Perhaps you could try a regular 357 mag load in your gun to see if it also splits. This would at least point you in the correct direction as far as the cause of the problem.

Such a horrendous split on new cases could be due, as previously mentioned, to probably no annealing on the case. However, I would think you would have experienced neck splits or bullet rips when seating the bullet. From the primers that are visible, there seems to be no sign of excessive pressure. It is odd how the cases did not split to the mouth of the case. It will be interesting to hear what Remington has to say.

Did you happen to notice which chambers the cases in the 20% failure group came from?

[eastwood44mag]

Maybe. Depends on pricing and availability/quantity. Keep me posted. Thanks.

[Sunray]

Please reduce the size of your pictures. A dial up user will still be loading this page next week.
Then go here to contact Remington. http://remington.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/remington.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php?p_sid=S8OW_dji&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD0zMTQmcF9wcm9kcz0mcF9jYXRzPSZwX3B2PSZwX2N2PSZwX3BhZ2U9MQ**

[Ben Shepherd]

Not trying to hijack your thread here.

But, if I can get enough people to be able to tell starline we want a 10,000 round batch I think they'll do it.

Assuming average pricing around 12 bucks per hundred how much brass do you guys want?

[Ben Shepherd]

As for the splits-

Can't remember the exact chemistry involed here, but I had a whole bunch of midway 41 mag brass do exactly the same thing.

Had a whole bunch of ammo that came with one of my 41 redhawks. The guy says they were loaded all at the same time. This is a guy I trust mind you.

Without fail, the ones that had been stored in a loop(for several years the belt had been hanging in a closet) on the leather belt split, the ones in boxes did not.

IIRC it has something to do with ammonia used in the tanning process leaching a certain element out of the brass when stored that way long term.

[Peter M. Eick]

I called Remington today and they asked me to send back a sample of the brass. They stated that it should not do this and they would look into it. The implication is they would replace the brass but they wanted to see it for themselves.

I would be interested in a Starline order. I would go for between 1000 and 2000 pieces depending on the price.

Someone asked if the cylinders are bored to big? I shot hot 357's in starline and remington brass out of it with no problems. I infer from this that it is only the 357 Max brass problem.

There was also the question was it chamber dependent? No, I thought of that and kept track of which chamber it happened in. All of them had it occur. You can index off the "S" mark on the back of the cylinder to keep track.

Finally I should note that Midway has offered to replace, or refund. My choice. I will email them tomorrow and let them know I am trying to work it out with Remington but I may take them up on the matter.

I will keep you informed.

[Ben Shepherd]

Thanks for the update!

[Dr. Dickie]

Quote:
"Without fail, the ones that had been stored in a loop(for several years the belt had been hanging in a closet) on the leather belt split, the ones in boxes did not.

IIRC it has something to do with ammonia used in the tanning process leaching a certain element out of the brass when stored that way long term."

That would be the copper (the major metal in brass), as ammonia forms the tetraamine (beautiful dark blue) complex.
Ammonia + brass = bad news

[Peter M. Eick]

Update.....

I just got 500 pieces of replacement brass from Remington. They stated from the letter enclosed:

"These shells had less annealing then normal and this led to the splits. Our annealing process is a balancing step. The case brass needs to be hard enough to hold the bullets firmly, but not so hard as to become brittle.

We do work hard at trying to provide quality products to all our customers. The annealing processes here are checked around the clock by a special support group working out of our chemical laboratory. We apologize for the inconvenience this product caused you.

I have enclosed 500 rounds of fresh U357XC unprimed cases to replace the defective product. We appreciate you choosing Remington products and hope you will in the future".


Very nice and yes I will continue to buy Remington in the future.

[LeonCarr]

Cool...glad it worked out.