Second rifle


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Tarendol
October 3, 2006, 06:29 PM
I was hoping to get a little advice on a good second rifle. Right now I have the CZ 452 Training, which is an excellent .22 bolt action with iron sights only (I have modified them though with a peep sight). I don't hunt, but I want a larger caliber rifle with a scope... honestly, mostly because I want something a little meatier than a .22 for recreational shooting, and I would like to learn to use a scope.

I have considered a .223 semi-auto but I'm not horribly concerned with multiple waves of attackers (though I may come to regret that when the zombies attack :) ) and I really enjoy the feel of the bolt action on my 452. I thought about a SKS also but I wasn't thrilled with it. I have started looking into the .30-06 because it is so readily available and also because it has always been associated in my mind with great Americans of the past (one of the reasons I got a .45 pistol). But I am certainly open to other calibers.

I know scopes are very expensive, but can I get by with a lower end one? I see that Savage makes some setups where you get the rifle and the scope but I have no idea what the quality is. I certainly can't spend more than $500 total for both the rifle and the scope, and below that is better. Really, I just want a higher caliber rifle that is fun to shoot.

Anyway, sorry for the rather rambling message, please let me know if you have any advice. Thank you!

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ocabj
October 3, 2006, 06:37 PM
If you want a short action, I recommend the following:

http://www.savagearms.com/12Varminter.htm

http://www.savagearms.com/12VarminterSS.htm

http://www.savagearms.com/12bvss.htm

http://www.savagearms.com/12PrecVarm.htm

If you want a long action, try to find a Savage 112BVSS. Same as the 12BVSS except in a long action cartridge. Not to mention support equipment like cleaning rod, a correct bore guide, etc.

As far as the $500 budget, you should save up before making a purchase of a rifle, scope, and scope mounting.

The above Savage models will be excellent shooters out of the box, with good stocks and not the generic plastic stock seen on the baseline models.

Loyalist Dave
October 3, 2006, 06:43 PM
Since you like the CZ why not look into their carbine? It's available in 7.62 Soviet or in .223, bolt action, and magazine fed. It also has a "set" trigger, good iron sights, and will accept a scope. I love mine in .223, and the twist rate in the barrel likes the cheaper ammo. If I was going to hunt deer with it, I'd a opted for one in 7.62 Soviet (7.62 x 39)

You said you don't want to hunt with it, so go with something that shoots cheap. .30-06 WAS the old military surplus round, but it's drying up these days. .308 is also getting harder to find. .223 and 7.62 Soviet are still big around the world.

You might as well get a good quality scope with a fixed power, if price is an issue. They tend to be cheaper than quality adjustable scopes. I got a used Leopold, and sent it back to them to have it checked and to have a German style reticle put in. Fixed 4X. Scary accurate! :D

LD

Squidward
October 3, 2006, 06:48 PM
It sounds like a bolt action suits you. The caliber depends on your sensitivity to recoil and the rifle's purpose. Don't overlook military surplus, which can save you $$$.

My recommendation; the Swiss K31.

tubeshooter
October 3, 2006, 06:49 PM
I am intrigued by the CZ in 7.62 x 39, if it doesn't have a problem with surplus ammo that might be a good call. Ammo prices are higher than years past, but it's still cheaper than a lot of other centerfire stuff.

[EDIT: That's with plinking in mind. Hunting might change the equation somewhat for you.]

Art Eatman
October 3, 2006, 06:52 PM
I've done a bunch of gun trading through the years, and have never had a problem with any bolt-action that I traded into. "Good used" can save you money.

Some models don't have as much of a "cool" factor. The Remington 721 is one of those. They're pretty plain-Jane, but they're good shooters. You can always trade it off later on when your billfold gets fatter.

The main points are the "leade", the first part of the rifling in front of the chamber. It should not show any pitting. Next is the barrel; the edges of the lands and grooves should be sharp. The bore should be shiny, not dull and gray-looking. Last, the crown should not have any dings that impinge upon the rifling.

Dings on the stock are merely bargaining points. Worn bluing is merely a bargaining point.

Pawn shops ask prices that are way too high, but you can offer what to you is a reasonable price. If they don't want to bargain, walk away. Same deal at a gun show. Always remember the Absolute Rule: "Cash talks, BS walks."

So, learn something about prices. Do some homework in that area.

Scopes: I've had good service from my Simmons 44Mag 3x10x44. It has done just fine with some 300 rounds of '06 past it.

The deal with used scopes is to look through them the wrong way. If there are no little "half-moons" of chipped lenses that are visible, the lenses are intact. But stick with "good" brands; Leupold, Weaver, Redfield, etc. Burris; lots more. Again, they're commonly over-priced on a gunshow table, but remember the Absolute Rule.

FWIW, Art

redranger1
October 3, 2006, 07:09 PM
I would recommend a nice sporterized 03' springfield if you decide to get a 30-06. They are pretty common between $250-$400 and if it has been sporterized it will almost certainly already be drilled and tapped. Just make sure that you buy it from someone that has already checked the gun over and will guaratee the headspacing and barrel for accuracy so that you dont end up with one thats been bubba'd to the point of ruin. If you go this route you get great american heritage in caliber and rifle. :D

Tarendol
October 4, 2006, 11:09 AM
Thank you very much for the replies! I am going to consider all of your suggestions carefully. I certainly will do more research before deciding; I just wanted to have somewhere to start.

I did want to touch on one thing, the Swiss K31. I have thought about buying one before as they have a reputation for accuracy and they are inexpensive enough that I could buy one and still be able to buy another rifle later. But I've never seen one locally, and I don't know how much of a hassle it will be to order one and get one shipped here (I know I have to get a FFL to receive it) plus I don't know anything about the ammunition. Can anyone comment on this?

kir_kenix
October 4, 2006, 01:24 PM
look at the stevens line. really inexpensive and they are built on the same platform as savage (with the old savage equipment as well). there are a few different calibers thru (in short and long actions). comes pretty much the way it is...no bells and whistles. i bout a .308 from walmart off special order for $228. its a nice rifle, i put a relativley inexpensive 3x9 on it and i have a great rifle to keep in my jeep. its pretty damn accurate, and i never have to worry about scratching it up (synthetic) and because its pretty inexpensive i dont feel bad about shooting it in the rain, snow w/e.

MatthewVanitas
October 4, 2006, 01:52 PM
To comparison-shop for FFL dealers in your area, check out: http://www.gunsamerica.com/transfer.cgi

Or: http://www.gunbroker.com/User/DealerNetwork.asp

The big gun auction/classified websites all have directories (since they want to make it easy for you to shop there). Check a couple different directories, and pick whoever has low FFL fees. In CA you're luck to get $30. In Texas you can get $10-$15 if you shop around.


Recommend running a search on THR about the K31, that should cover most of your questions. Not sure how easy they are to scope, though some folks use a non-invasive scope mount which swaps out for the rear sight, and allows them to install a "Scout" type LER scope. This allows you to scope without making permanent mods to a piece of history. You can also add a non-permanent aperture sight with Mojo Sights.

That would be affordable and cool, the K31. If you want something easy and practical, Savage seems the hands-down bet. I'd go w/ .223 to save on ammo, but that's just me.

-MV

Stiletto Null
October 4, 2006, 03:19 PM
You could always start buying milsurps... :evil:

Run&Shoot
October 4, 2006, 10:28 PM
You should get something you enjoy, which sounds like a traditional bolt. The Savage is a great idea as they are very accurate. I have my Dad's from the 1930s and although it pre-dates the current model 110, it is also very accurate for a (then) $35 rifle. The Remington 700 in ADL (they just renamed it to something else) and BDL is pretty standard too. If you can find a Winchester Model 70 Classic, especially Feathrweight, in .30-06, .270 or .308 that would be really nice.

When I bought a scope a while back I got a Nikon Monarch. Pretty good optics for not too much ($250?). But, I have to admit my Dad's rilfes in .308 and .30-06 have worn Bushnell Banner (their cheapest grade I think) 3x-9x for decades and been hauled through wet Northwest woods and trucks and they are still spot on year to year and work just fine.

Another thing to keep an eye for on the used market is a good sporterized Mauser action. I have a nephew that has I think a Sears or Montgomery Wards sporterized Mauser in .308 that is really a good hunting rifle. A Mauser is still a Mauser. I once saw a Kimber sporterized Mauser for $300 that to this day I kick myself for not picking up.

Another caliber to consider is the .243. It is much easier on the shoulder to shoot from the bench for targets but is still a reasonable cartridge for anything up to deer. Or the .257, .25-06, .260, .280 ...;)

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