AOW question


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Prince Yamato
October 4, 2006, 02:17 AM
I was browsing AK pistols at a gun show recently and thought that it would be fun to own one. Owning an AK rifle, I know about the recoil of the AK design and figured that it would be a little difficult to manage in a pistol. I also assumed a vertical foregrip would aid weapon control. I'm looking for mainly a plinking device. I'm fully aware of NFA laws and most processes related to them and that pistol + vertical foregrip falls under NFA laws as an AOW. My questions are these:

If I have an NFA dealer install the grip is that a $5 tax or $200 tax?

What is the determining factor of the $5 vs. $200 tax?

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Geronimo45
October 4, 2006, 02:20 AM
Sure it would be AOW? I thought it had to be smoothbore to be AOW. Seemed like a rifled barrel meant it was a SBR. You sure a foregrip changes things at all?

qlajlu
October 4, 2006, 02:50 AM
Okay, color me uninformed, but just exactly what does AOW stand for?

I don't think the government has anything more on the alphabet soup market than some of these forums. [I swear]

Okay, never mind. I did a Google and came up with "Any Other Weapon."

harvester of sorrow
October 4, 2006, 03:09 AM
Prince Yamato is correct, if it has never been a rifle, it would be a AOW w/ the forward grip, just like an SP89 w/ a vertical foregrip. If a Class 2 manufacturer made it, he could transfer it to you for $5.00. If you filled out a Form 1 to make it yourself, you would have to pay a $200 making tax and then you could subsequently transfer it for a $5.00 tax.

If, on the other hand, you had a shoulder stocked AK, you could fill out a Form 1 to make it an SBR and pay a $200 making tax, then take off the stock and put on a vertical foregrip, and that gun would always transfer with a $200 tax because it is a short barreled rifle. Identical guns.

Edited to add:
A Class 2 manufacturer doesn't have to pay individual making taxes because he pays a yearly fee to the ATFE for his business.

A Class 3 dealer cannot "manufacture" weapons, but doesn't pay any taxes on guns transferring to him because he pays a yearly fee to the ATFE for his business.

An individual pays a $200 tax to the ATFE for each AOW, SBR, SBS, suppressor, or mg (back in the pre86 days) that he makes. He also pays (or, more likely, the buyer does) a $200 tax each time he transfers a SBR, SBS, suppressor, or mg. He pays (or, more likely, the buyer does) a $5 tax each time he transfers a AOW.

Prince Yamato
October 4, 2006, 10:24 AM
I was just thinking, a Class 2 manufacturer would probably charge money in addition to the $5 AOW transfer fee. But if I made it myself (going through the proper paper-work of course) and made it a $200 SBR, I could also use it an AOW configuration? (ie, I can add a vertical grip to an SBR, correct? Can I remove the stock?) An SBR is just like a normal rifle, just with a barrel shorter than 16 inches (and with all NFA laws applying)?

mp510
October 4, 2006, 01:18 PM
$200 is to make, $5 is to transfer.

Jim K
October 4, 2006, 01:57 PM
First, I think that "vertical foregrip" business was part of the expired AWB; if so, it is no longer in effect and can be disregarded.

You can, with BATFE approval, convert a rifle to a SBR, simply by cutting off the barrel. But if you have anyone else do it, he must be a licensed title II manufacturer; he takes the rifle, alters it to an SBR, and returns it to you on a Form 4. The $200 transfer tax has to be paid.

But if you then convert it to a pistol by removing the butt stock, you are altering the class of weapon and by making a pistol out of a rifle, you are violating the law, the same as if you made a pistol out of a rifle without bothering to make an SBR first. There is no system for legally doing so that I am aware of.

Those AK "pistols" were made as pistols by a licensed manufacturer. It would be simpler to just buy one and not spend a lot of money trying to make your own, not to mention the risk of jail time.

Jim

LAR-15
October 4, 2006, 02:10 PM
The BATFE has ruled that adding a fore grip to a pistol no longer makes it a pistol, therefor an AOW.

To make an AOW it is 200 dollar tax.

To transfer one it is 5 dollars.

That is because many AOWs are collectibles and rare and already owned by folks.

M2 Carbine
October 4, 2006, 03:06 PM
Handling the AK pistol is no problem.
IMO a forward pistol grip would serve no purpose and actually would get in the way most of the time.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/AKpistol2.jpg

If you just want a fun rifle caliber pistol, the Kel Tec PLR-16 can't be beat. It can be fired one handed but usually isn't. It's highly accurate, sub 2 inch groups at 100 yards. Inexpensive, in the sub $500 range.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/PLRCarbinesling.jpg

M2 Carbine
October 4, 2006, 03:21 PM
Adding a Vertical Fore Grip to a Handgun


“Handgun” is defined under Federal law to mean, in part, a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand…. Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(29).
Under an implementing regulation of the National Firearms Act (NFA), 27 C.F.R. § 479.11, “pistol” is defined as a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).
The NFA further defines the term “any other weapon” (AOW) as any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition. 26 U.S.C. § 5845(e).
ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s NFA Branch. Making an unregistered “AOW” is punishable by a fine and 10 years’ imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered “AOW” is also punishable by fine and 10 years’ imprisonment.
To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must make an appropriate application on ATF Form 1, “Application to Make and Register a Firearm.” The applicant must submit the completed form, along with a fingerprint card bearing the applicant’s fingerprints; a photograph; and $200.00. The application will be reviewed by the NFA Branch. If the applicant is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law, and possession of an “AOW” is not prohibited in the applicant’s State of residence, the form will be approved. Only then may the person add a vertical fore grip to the designated handgun.
A person may also send the handgun to a person licensed to manufacture NFA weapons. The manufacturer will install the fore grip on the firearm and register the firearm on an ATF Form 2. The manufacturer can then transfer the firearm back to the individual on an ATF Form 4, which results in a $5.00 transfer tax. If the manufacturer is out of State, the NFA Branch will need a clarification letter submitted with the ATF Form 4 so that the NFA Branch Examiner will know the circumstances of the transfer. Questions can be directed to the NFA Branch or the Firearms Technology Branch.

wdlsguy
October 4, 2006, 05:04 PM
But if I made it myself (going through the proper paper-work of course) and made it a $200 SBR, I could also use it an AOW configuration?
Yes.

I can add a vertical grip to an SBR, correct?
Correct.

Can I remove the stock?
Yes.

An SBR is just like a normal rifle, just with a barrel shorter than 16 inches (and with all NFA laws applying)?
You can also register a pistol as an SBR, which allows you to legally attach a shoulder stock.

Hkmp5sd
October 4, 2006, 07:56 PM
Pay the $200 and register it as a SBR. You can then have any combination of shoulder stock (or not) /overall length/barrel length/foregrip (or not) that you desire. If you register it as an AOW, I'd bet money that some day down the road, you will want to mount a shoulder stock to it. :)

First, I think that "vertical foregrip" business was part of the expired AWB; if so, it is no longer in effect and can be disregarded.


The AW ban prohibited a horizontal foregrip on a semi-automatic handgun, which is why you didn't see any AK pistols comming out during the ban (plus they exceeded the weight limit).

SigfanUSAF
October 4, 2006, 08:05 PM
“Handgun” is defined under Federal law to mean, in part, a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand…. Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(29).


Guess that means the .500 S&W is an AOW:neener:
I SURE ain't gonna try shootin' it single handedly:D

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