[vito]

My son is in a unique position. He is an investigator for a State government, and just recently had his position certified as a sworn LEO positon rather than just a civilian investigator. As a former LEO he qualified. His superiors have given him the option of selecting the handgun that they will buy for him to carry concealed while working for this government agency. He asked me for recommendations, and I suggested the Glock 36 or the Sig 229, or possibly the Colt Defender. But I don't claim to be an expert on picking the best all around gun, regardless of price (within reason) for use as a legally concealed handgun for an LEO. Any suggestions?

[RNB65]

He can't go wrong with a Sig 229. Preferably in 40S&W.

Might be better off with a Sig 239 if he's going to be carrying concealed as it's smaller and less bulky.

[Geronimo45]

There restrictions on caliber? Only 9mm, only .357 SIG? Sig, HK USP, Walther P99, Beretta of some kind.

If they pay for ammo, I'd personally go for a Five-Seven.

[vito]

A five-seven?

[10-Ring]

He should choose a platform that he can get a max number of rounds on target at max distance using a viable caliber. I'm sure the usual suspects will apply - HK, SIG, Glock, Beretta, S&W - which ever one works best in his hands is the one he should go with
If it were me, I'd go w/ a HK USP or USPc 45 ;)

[Geronimo45]

The FN Five-Seven. Holds 20 rounds, polymer framed, has a rail. The rounds are supposed to tumble on hitting flesh, and stop inside the perp, not over-penetatrating. High velocity, small-caliber bullets. If the government buys the ammo, he might get some AP stuff.
Supposed to have no more kick than a .22.

[ugaarguy]

Vito, best bet is for him to handle everyhting he can at a store and see what fits, better yet since they're buying the gun spend a few bucks and rent the top 3 to 5 from handling at a range and see what shoots best. Are there any restrictions on caliber, or action - i.e. no SA to carry cocked and locked like a 1911, etc. He needs to see what fits, plus look to how he's going to dress. I'm guessing that as an investigator he'll be in a business suit a big honkin duty gun won't be ideal. Fit the gun to his hand and his dress code.

[SigfanUSAF]

My $.02:
Sig P-229R DAK in .357 Sig.
I'm still working on getting one for "the wife"

[Harley Quinn]

Glock mdl 32 in 357sig would be my choice. Or a mdl 23 in 40 cal. Both are very good IMHO.

HQ:)

[Eightball]

From some of the gels i've seen, .357 SIG beats .40 so far as size of the cavity. I wouldn't take my word for it, though. If the gov't was footing my bill, a SIG in .357 SIG would probably do it for me.

Or a five-seven. Heard that the "right" bullets work wonders with those things.

[JMACDONALD]

"As a former LEO he qualified"....What did he carry before? Did he like it? Was he confident in its reliability and "power"? If he didn’t like it then what do the state police use for a side arm in the state he resides in? If he is working for the DA's office you could find out what the Sheriff’s carry in that county. God forbid he has to use the handgun in the line of duty (or off duty) its better to say you picked a Glock model 23 in .40 S&W because the state choose it for the troopers and you thought there must have been a good reason for it. Good luck in your search, now lets see how many people advocate a Desert Eagle .44 or X frame Smith & Wesson.

[Hanzo581]

My vote goes for the XD45, nice capacity 13+1

[BullfrogKen]

My vote is whatever works for him.

As JMACDONALD said earlier, what did he use before, and did he like it? Plainclothes, he's gonna have to wear nice stuff, on his budget I'm guessing, too - no uniform allowance?


Frankly, I'd try to find something slim, like a single sack auto, or a decent revolver. Those Colt Detective Specials really filled a great niche for this kind of role.

[DRMMR02]

If he can get the Feds to buy one for him, plus ammo, I would say the Five-SeveN as well.

[Skywarp]

Three Fifty Seven Sig in a Sig Sauer Platform.



226's and 229's can beeasily hidden under sport coats and 239s can be hidden under tee shirts.


I've been testing the To hell and back motto of SiG and so far my poor sigs are keeping up their end of the bargain.

[Coronach]

What does he shoot best?

I'd carry that.

Mike

[Seven High]

Will your son have to qualify with the weapon several times a year, like most LEOs. Who will supply the ammunition. What caliber is the supplied ammunition? With that being said, I would recommedn the Sig P229 DAK in 40 S & W with a 357 Sig auxilary barrel.

[Inline_6]

He should carry whatever fits his hand and he shoots well. There are far too many choices to list here, but as long as he stays with one of the major manufacturers and calibers he should be fine. I would recommend he only consider .357 mag, .357 Sig, .40S&W, 10mm, 9mm, 45ACP. I'd avoid oddball calibers like the 5.7. No matter how people try to sell that round, it doesn't perform in real world shootings. It's about the same as shotting someone with a 22 mag. That cartridge was designed to do one thing - penetrate soft body armor. Even shootings with the P90s (i.e. longer barrel) have been dismal.

[usp9]

Were I in that position I would choose the HK P2000. Very reliable, very accurate, concealable, and a choice of caliber. Maybe even the SK because concealment is needed.

[rich52us]

He should consider what he used to carry, and if he was comfortable with that. If I was choosing for me today, I'd go with a Glock 30 (which I carry daily). It's a great compromise of size v. firepower. Easy to conceal, controlable recoil, accurate, consistant trigger, reliable and fires a proven round. I'd carry at least one spare mag. If I was active LE again, I'd also carry a BUG (probably my P3AT).

[DogBonz]

Definitely the 229. I own one and she runs great. It has only failed once, and that was due to a bad primer in some crappy ammo. The 229 is heavier that the Glock, but IMHO, would be much easier to conceal. Plus the added weight makes it a better shooter. Once again, that is my opinion (Glock fans don’t flame me). I respect the Glocks, they are great guns, but I think that there are guns that are just as good that I prefer and can shoot better.
Also, if you are SIG fan, I would never feel under-gunned with the 220. I also am a huge fan of H&K, although the USP’s are not as easy to hide on ones person.

[Wes Janson]

I dunno about the Five-SeveN. Shot one last week, and was not impressed. The trigger was disappointing, the grip felt very odd, and I didn't care for the sights. The cartridge might be great if you're shooting at people wearing body armor, but the odds of that happening are extremely slim, and what's the *real* value of the round against an unprotected target? I'd rather have a decent cartridge, .45 ACP or 10mm perhaps. But that's just me. And since everyone is different, the best choice is always going to be whatever he himself can shoot best.

[Geronimo45]

My liking of the 5.7 is the round used ('cause it's a variant on the old 7.63 Mauser broomhandle a hundred years ago) the low recoil and the very high capacity. It's no magic bullet - but it ought to give you pretty rapid follow-up shots.
Besides, it has to be good if the Brady's don't like it.

[Harley Quinn]

I think you have a fine point the last one that is.:)

Now my preference is this. 357 SIG if that is what you want, High Penetration and good power packaged in the the Model 32 Glock for civilian carry.
My other would be the 40 cal in a mdl 23 Glock, oops there is that word again. :uhoh:

More Law enforcement are carring that one at the moment, I believe in the Mdl 22 though.;)

HQ

[Zach S]

I'm not a fan of the .357 SIG. There was a LEO at the range firing a glock in 357 SIG that turned me off of them. It seemed a lot louder than other pistol calibers.

Anyway, he should carry whatever he's most comfortable with.

[TexasRifleman]

I shoot .40 and .357 Sig in my P239 a lot, but I end up carrying the thing with .357 Sig installed. It doesn't seem any louder to me on the firing range, but it does have a tiny bit "snappier" recoil.

For concealed use I'd recommend the P239 also, as several have mentioned.

[Cueball]

When I made my decision on concealed carry, I handled a lot of guns and narrowed it down to the SIG 239 or the H&K USP Compact 40. They are both top notch weapons, but the H&K controls worked best for me since I'm a left hander. I would suggest looking at both of those and choose the one that fits his hand the best. He won't go wrong with either one.

[Biker]

It depends upon what he shoots best. My vote would be a Glock 23 with a G27 for a BUG. The Glock 23's 13 round mag would also serve as an extra for the G23.

Biker

[Soybomb]

Go to the range and rent several gun in 9mm, .40, and .45 Buy the one he shoots the best and likes the best. Some people love sigs, I can't especially warm up to the trigger. I love my walther P99 but some people don't like it too. Its like asking us to pick out his underpants.

[S&W620]

I couldn't agree more with Soybomb. He has to try out many guns and see which one he likes.

Glock, Sig, and HK all have a large following with law enforcement and all make fine firearms.

[CornCod]

If I were a copper and could pick my handgun, I would seriously consider a Glock if its ergonomics suited me. If you are going to be lugging a firearm all day, you are spastic if you don't consider plastic . I don't own a Glock but I have shot them many times and they are good handguns.

[roo_ster]

1. Find out what his constraints are (caliber, make, models, mode of operation, etc.)
2. Gawk at & handle weapons that comply with the constraints.
3. Rent & fire the top 3 best-feeling candidates & see how he does.
4. Pick the one he likes best.

[crunker]

Springfield XD 45. High cap high accuracy high reliability.

For backup go for a .357SIG GLOCK.

[shield20]

1)Sig 229 DAK .40
1.1) HK P2000 LEM .40
2)Walther P99QA 9mm

1st 2 cost $$$, next is great price, all are awesome pistols.

[VHinch]

My dad, who has been a law enforcement officer and instructor for well over 20 years now, still says his ideal duty gun is a 4" S&W 686 in .357 magnum. When asked why, he usually replies (tongue in cheek of course, but still a good point) "I don't plan on killing more than 6 people today"

V

[Phenom]

If I were him I would choose the Springfield Mil-Spec, but that's me;) The Springfield XD series comes nicely equipped and at a very reasonable price too. Sigarms P220 in 45acp or P226 in 40s&w are excellent choices. All of the models I mentioned are solid performers and fit almost everyone's hands.

[Harley Quinn]

Vito is gone to much information.:what:

HQ:rolleyes:

[cookekdjr]

It depends upon what he shoots best. My vote would be a Glock 23 with a G27 for a BUG. The Glock 23's 13 round mag would also serve as an extra for the G23.

Biker

Great suggestion. A good alternate is the G19/G26.
I also love SIG's but they don't have as good of a "pairing", that is, there's no subcompact version of the p229 or p228.

[Leonardo]

Something expensive! How about a Sig 226 X-Five? :neener:

[Powderman]

1. Go to pistol range. With lots of cash.
2. Rent EVERY handgun he can get his hands on. This includes 9mm, .40, .45, .357 SiG, etc. (Something that might influence his decision: Tell him to ask his boss what ammunition they will provide for him.)

3. Put at least 10 rounds through each handgun.
4. Pick the four that he likes best; buy one box of ammunition for each.
5. Tell him to put the pistols through the workout again.
6. Pick the one he likes best.

Part II.

Tell him to pick out the BEST holster for his intended mode of carry. Do NOT skimp on price; insist on quality and reputation. If he picked a single stack pistol, get at least 4 mag carriers. If a double stack, a double mag pouch will do.

Now, the most important part: With an UNLOADED handgun, tell him to practice his draw stroke at least 3000 times. Don't go for blazing speed; smooth will lead to fast. If he's going to draw from concealment, make the majority of those draws from concealment.

After that, head to the range, and start some shooting drills.

Finally, tell him congratulations, good luck, and stay safe!

[Harley Quinn]

Very good I agree with you on most if not all. :what:
Informative and very useful information for all, just not this person, who are looking for the similar thing.:uhoh:

HQ:D

[stephen m]

Hey, if the're paying the bill how about a SIG 210 or H&K P7. If I didn't have

to pay for it you bet I'd go for top shelf! :D

[9mmepiphany]

the HK P7 is a great duty gun, is small enough to comfortably carry concealed and has a full lenght 4" barrel to get the most out of the 9mm round.

failing that, i'd look seriously at the springfield XD line

[Geronimo45]

You could get the USP Compact Tactical, and get a silencer afterwards.

I'd still go for a Five-Seven, personally. Twenty rounds really boils down to ten double taps... which ought to stop anything on two legs. The price of the gun and the ammo is what keeps me away from it... and the fact that the gun is polymer.

[WickedXD]

XD45 show up rest of those Glock weilding LEOs:neener:

[John C]

Hmmm....I'm guessing your son isn't a "gun guy" since you're the one posting the question here and not him....

In light of that, I'd definitely go with a low maintenance finish, either stainless steel or tennifer. I love Sig pistols, but they just rust too darn easily. The last thing he probably want's to do every day is scrape rust off his pistol. Sig now has a large lineup of stainless pistols, though.

I'd also get a 9mm, or maybe a .45. Both of these, I find, are much easier to shoot than higher energy rounds like .40 or .357 sig. In fact, I find the .40 very difficult to shoot in small platforms.

I'd go with something compact, since he's plainclothes. His role doesn't sound very active, since he didn't previously carry a gun, so I wouldn't worry about a bunch of backup mags. In fact, I probably wouldn't carry any. He'll have a SWAT team do any entries that he might need for search warrants, etc. and if he gets into a shooting, his best bet is to break contact. No vest, no radio.....the last thing he wants to do is shoot.

So basically, unless his employers are dramatically changing his role, he is basically carrying a gun to be an on duty CCW, for defense only.

I recommend a Glock 19 or maybe 26, and a SIG 239. Smith 3913s are awesome. I think the HKs are too bulky, but I don't have much experience with their smaller offerings.

Good luck.

-John


So rec

[IV Troop]

With the risk of offending some folks, I think I would ask for opinions from guys who are LEOs and who work plain clothes operations. I often find a pretty big difference between what people think leos carry and what is actually carried. Though usually the theorists are well intentioned and good spirited. Usually.

Theory and reality.

[Spencer]

I would carry a SIG P228.

[Pilot]

CZ-75D PCR or HK P2000.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi I am a retired LEO. My opinions are already mentioned.

HQ:)

[Checkman]

Vito

Lots of responses, but nothing else from you. Where are you?

[vito]

Reading all of the responses, which I appreciate. I have printed these out and passed them on to my son hoping it helps in his decision. I know that comments on an open forum can't be accepted as gospel truth but a lot of this has really been helpful.

[Ala Dan]

"Whatever Fits"~!;)

For me it would be a quality 1911 in .45 ACP.

[Autolycus]

The Glock 23 and Glock 27 combo is a good idea.

An HK P2000 and P2000sk is a better one.:)

[geekWithA.45]

He's gonna have to do what everybody else does:

Read & research, then get to a range that rents and try a few out, till he knows his own mind on the matter, then buy and train and practice.

Guys who cut corners on this make me skeptical, and cause me to wonder where they belong on the spectrum that runs from "guys lugging magic talismans around" to "competent gunmen".

[jjohnson]

What does he shoot best?

I'd carry that.
(Quote from Mike)

Yep. If he's asking for advice, my guess is that he's not as hard core a shooter as some of us. That being said, there's a line of logic that says that if you can't hit something, you shouldn't be carrying, so it's not a bad idea to go with what he can comfortably hit with. Glocks and their like are fairly lightweight compared to say, my favorite M1911 .45 types... which goes a long way if you're carrying concealed all day every day. There's an argument against carrying something that's strange to you - so I'd ask the young man what he qualified with and whether he liked it. With something like a Glock, controls are much alike, so changing from the 9mm (many used in training) to something like a .40 or whatever isn't as big a deal as going from, say, a Glock to a SIG. Chances are he was trained with a Glock M17... I'd chance on a .40 (or larger) with maybe a slightly shorter barrel and night sights.

Me... I like my Glock 35 (.40 cal, adjustable sights, full size) but that's me.

[Coronach]

Ah, I had assumed that he was an experience shooter.

Vito, if he has not already made a decision, do this:

1. Find out if there are any restrictions (make, model, caliber, action type, etc). I find it hard to believe that a modern LE agency does not have SOME restrictions. That will narrow the field considerably.

2. Ask what calibers, if any, the LE agency will provide. That might not be a limiting factor (it's up to him and his wallet), but it's nice to know.

3. If it is still up for grabs, limit yourself to major calibers. 9mm, .45 ACP, .40 S&W, .357 Sig and maybe 10mm for autoloaders. If he is a revolver guy, consider .38 Spl, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum. As nice as .38 Super and .41 Magnum are, he'll go broke feeding that gun, and he wants to be able to practice. So, stick with common calibers.

4. After that, he needs to go shoot a lot of guns. In pretty short order he can figure out what works and what does not work for him. While extensive training would be nice before this point, it's not really required. If it feels bad in the hand, it is bad. If he cannot reach the controls, it is bad. If the procedures to load and fire seem too complex (some people hate manual safeties), it is bad. If recoil seems bad, it is bad. After fingering, dryfiring and live firing a bunch of guns, he will be able to see what he likes and does not like. He can trust his gut on this one. A gun that feels poor in the hand can be made, with practice, to feel more natural, but the opposite is not true; a gun that starts out feeling right will probably not get worse with practice.

5. Stick with major makers. Glock, Springfield, S&W, Sig, Ruger, Colt, Kimber, H&K, Beretta, FN/Browning, etc. If you've never heard of the maker, that might be a sign.

Of course, you're looking for suggestions. Consider these, but if they don't fit, don't sweat it.

Glock. They're all the same, except for details like caliber, barrel length and grip size. ;) See which one he likes.

Springfield XD. Great gun, may or may not fit his hand.

1911. There is a reason why this gun is alive and kicking, coming up on its 100th birthday.

Browning Hi-Power. My first gun. It just feels right. Available in 9mm and .40S&W.

S&W M&P. New, so it does not yet have a track record, but early reports are pretty good. Nice trigger, feels good in the hand.

Mike

[Mr Kablammo]

Smith & Wesson Third-Gen Semi-Auto. High cap, combo saftey-decock, mag safety, affordable, proven, lots of support. Maybe a 4006 or 4046. Or maybe the new M&P.

[Majic]

He's a qualified handgun shot and don't know what handgun to pick? Since he's an investigator maybe he should put his skills to use. Only he will know what handgun is best for him no matter what everyone here recommends. Tell him to get out and try all the models he can. Go to the range and see what other officers use and ask to try their models. As they say get from behind the desk and do some field work.

[springmom]

They'll allow any type?

Full-size 1911, pick your brand Springfield or Kimber :neener: Not many LEO's are lucky enough to be able to carry 1911's apparently, and it's a great choice.

Sspringmom

[Harley Quinn]

How many times do we need to hear about the very heavy and cumbersome guns on your hip for days at a time???:confused:

This person is plainclothes.

HQ:)

[SAG0282]

SIG Pro, 229, or GLOCK compact series (19/23/32).

[OldBillThundercheif]

Semi-auto is for wussies. Glock 18
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k223/zarganuts/glock18.jpg

[Harley Quinn]

Model 18 :eek: He has a model 18:what: Not many of them around.:uhoh:
Good thing, can we say lots of ammo;) but you need a 30 round Mag to really look cool.:cool:

HQ:D

[IV Troop]

So you like the G18 huh?

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/modifiedG18.jpg

[Harley Quinn]

Hi, that is cool:cool:
So does that mean I can just buy the slide and not worry about the rules??? I am asking about the G18, and the 30 rounder.:uhoh:

So how about a good look at a target that is 10yds out? Can it be kept on a man size target? What kind of burst's are we doing?:what:

HQ:D

[pendentive]

vito - does he have any answers to the questions posed here? (regarding regulations, who buys ammo, etc.)