New Springfield EMP!

Just in TODAY! I got my New Springfield 9mm EMP!

Taking a trip to the Range first thing TOMORROW!

MAN this thing feels SWEET!!!!

Range Report and PICs to follow!!!

ok, i'll bite. Electromagnetic Pulse 9mm? WTFO

Can't wait to see what an EMP is :scrutiny: :neener: Congrats on the new gun tho! :cool:

http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/pistols/emp/Large/EMPleft.gif

Enhanced Micro Pistol

It is a whole new class of pistol -- the short-action 1911. The new Springfield Armory 9mm Enhanced Micro Pistol (EMP) is the first production 1911 made from the ground up to shoot short cartridges like 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 GAP. The result? The smallest, most concealable 1911 you can buy.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/pistols/emp/Large/EMPright.gif

READ About it HERE (http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/pistols/emp/Large/EMPright.gif)

I think I just got schoolled :what: That's a purdy one! Congrats again :cool:

How much does it go for?

:eek: Damn, there goes another grand :D

$1,060

I will assume that Prices are prone to drop as time moves on...

I have been waiting for a while now and drooling at pics for too long...

This one NEEDED to come home! ;)

The First … The Smallest … Soon to be copied by everyone:

Get a good look at the new Springfield Armory EMP, because soon it will be copied by everyone. And when you see their pistols that look almost like ours, you will say to yourself, "You know ... that looks a lot like a Springfield Armory EMP."

Get a good look at a whole new class of pistol -- the short-action 1911. The new Springfield Armory 9mm Enhanced Micro Pistol (EMP) is the first production 1911 made from the ground up to shoot short cartridges like 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 GAP. The result? The smallest, most concealable 1911 you can buy.

Previously, when 1911s were chambered for short-action calibers like the 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 GAP, this was done on guns built around the longer 45 ACP cartridge (Essentially, long-action 1911s). Spacers were placed in the magazine to align the shorter cartridges. The EMP is the first production 1911 designed specifically for these shorter cartridges.

The world got its first glimpse of the short-action 1911 in 2005 with a prototype Springfield gun called the "Defender." Chambered in 45 GAP, this rare gun received rave reviews from numerous firearms publications. We decided to launch this new class of 1911 in the more popular 9mm caliber in the EMP.
In order to shrink down the frame and slide of the 9mm EMP Springfield engineers had to redesign a total of 15 different parts to accommodate the change and enhance the 1911's performance specifically for short-action pistol cartridges.

Here is a comparison between the micro compact and the EMP
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=45897&stc=1&d=1160022236

Prices ought to drop.... very nice buy. Let us know how it shoots!

I guess this explains why I am seeing such good deals on the .40 springer compacts locally.....

That thing looks sweet!

where can i get one of these??? they aren't even listed on the SA website yet! can't find any on GA.com either

Isn't Kimber coming out with 2 micro 1911s too?
One 9mm and the other .45
They both have bobbed hammers and the .45 doesn't have sights , but a sight grove. I don't see the point of the bobbed hammer though. If you are carrying it cocked and locked, you now have a smaller piece of metal to sick into your skin.

I guess this is the new market niche to tap into. Not that is necessarily bad. I always wondered way there wasn't many compact 1911 in 9mm.

9mm
http://www.kimberamerica.com/images/pistols/custom/aegis.jpg
http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/customshop/aegis.php

.45
http://www.kimberamerica.com/images/pistols/custom/ultrarcp.jpg
http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/customshop/ultrarcp.php

Why the beavertail on the Kimber 9mm with the bobbed hammer?

Tc-Tx,
congrats on the new pistol! beautiful!!!!!! i can't wait to hear how it does for you.

Damn those Kimbers are ugly!:D

where can i get one of these???

Cheaper Than Dirt in Ft. Worth

Isn't Kimber coming out with 2 micro 1911s too?
Kimber already has one out there - The Aegis II (http://www.kimberamerica.com/specialrun.php)

The DIFFERENCE - IMO - is the way each of them was approached from the start.

The Aegis II is a scaled down full size 1911, and a Very fine weapon.

The EMP is a From The Ground-Up Off Of the Drawing Board a new platform - designed for the 9mm, the .40S&W and the .45GAP. I believe they thought about everything when they designed this pistol. (the .45GAP was actually the first one to be released). Size, weight, CCW, N/S, trigger, beavertail, hammer - Everything was thought of Before Production, and it shows.

Top-Of-The-Line Quality, Thin, Lightweight, Accurate AND 10 rounds of Cor-Bon DPX - I am thinking this is the perfect CCW for (most of) the masses...

Of course, YMMV... :)

Now if Springfield would dump the extended beavertail and bob the hammer, it would be a really good carry gun.

Is the Springfield slide scaled down in height and width also, or is a 45 slide?

Now if Springfield would dump the extended beavertail and bob the hammer, it would be a really good carry gun.

Sorry Chuck - I disagree! If that is what you seek - go buy the Aegis II...

Who wants a bobbed hammer on a 1911? NOT ME!!! Without a decocker, that would be dangerous. 1911's do not have a decocker.

AND - I Want the Beavertail! IMO - a Skeletized Hammer with a Beavertail - that is PERFECT!!!

Of course, YMMV... :)

Is the Springfield slide scaled down in height and width also, or is a 45 slide?
I do not have a micrometer at hand, but it looks the same width as my Kimber and my SA Micro Compact .45

Who needs a decocker on a 1911? Cocked and locked at all times while loaded for me. The only time I lower a hammer on a loaded 1911 is when I'm firing it. Surely you're not lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber by thumb? THAT is unsafe no matter how the pistol is equipped.

Who needs a decocker on a 1911?
Agreed!!!

Surely you're not lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber by thumb? THAT is unsafe no matter how the pistol is equipped.
Your statement is simply Not true. Yes - carry C&L. But Sometimes you MUST decock a 1911. There is No Danger in lowering the hammer on a 1911 if it is performed properly. Lowering the hammer does not carry the same inertial force as a fired hammer.

NOW - Trying to lower the BOBBED hammer on a 1911 - now THAT is dangerous any way you look at it! :)

I manually deckock my SA auto's all the time, but I'm and an old revolver guy, it comes second nature. :)

" I manually deckock my SA auto's all the time, but I'm and an old revolver guy, it comes second nature. "

That will start a segue of about 20 posts...Ha ;) .

TC-TX,

Thanks for the info on the slide.

But Sometimes you MUST decock a 1911


I completely disagree....I can't think of ANY reason why I would want to decock a 1911. :confused:

Please enlighten me as well...I don't understand when you must decock a 1911?
Neat gun though! I look forward to handling one as a member of the smallish hands club. Don't think I need one though as I have a Glock 36 that fills that size niche and a p3at for smaller. I was looking hard at that Kimber RCPII though, LOVE the smooth lines on it.
On the Springer...is that a trigger adjustable for overtravel? I don't understand those on concealed carry pieces.
Nor do I understand ambi safeties on a gun designed to be even more compact. Nice as an option I suppose...

Yes...
Please enlighten me......Nor do I understand ambi safeties on a gun designed to be even more compact. Nice as an option I suppose...


Some of us are lefties. We lefties like our ambi-safeties. Nice to see companies cater to us. I don't notice the ambi safety on my Commander. Don't think it would be a problem on the EMP.

ZM

I completely disagree....I can't think of ANY reason why I would want to decock a 1911.

Please enlighten me as well...I don't understand when you must decock a 1911?


I am with these guys. When would you ever NEED to drop the hammer on a live chamber in a 1911 without firing the pistol? :confused:

I am with these guys. When would you ever NEED to drop the hammer on a live chamber in a 1911 without firing the pistol?

To put the gun in condition two.

To put the gun in condition two.

Yes yes yes. I know that the hammer down on an empty chamber is “condition 2”. I have been shooting 1911s for over 20 years. I have been packing them since Texas enacted concealed carry. I keep a loaded 1911 on my nightstand. I have never “needed” to put one into condition 2. Why would anyone want to this? Please explain.

Some prefer to carry that way instead of condition one. Not that I recommend it. Some might want to decock the pistol so it's not in a ready to fire position with the flick of a safety, just in case. (Yea, maybe it should be put in condition three but maybe someone doesn't want to have to drop the mag and eject a round, etc. for whatever reason at that time). With a thumb in between the hammer and slide it can be done very safely. You don't necessarily have to manually cock the hammer when ready to fire again, you can just rack the slide if you desire.

Hi Powers with mag disconnects, you can't drop the hammer until you insert the mag so carrying in condition three is out of the question unless you can drop the hammer after inserting the mag. It's not on a live round but still needed.

Personally, I am cocked and locked 95% of the time.

How does it compare in size to the other compact and micro compact 9s out there? Especially the Kahrs.

To put the gun in condition two.

I know this is just inviting an entire debate over the subject, which isn't at all the point of this thread (to give us more information on the EMP), but your post begs the question.

Why on earth do you need to be lowering the hammer manually? If it's onto a loaded chamber, then you're just itching to cause a negligent discharge, and absolutely positively shouldn't be doing it. If it's onto an empty chamber, then you should check the chamber as clear, and then dry fire the pistol. It's not going to hurt it.

I get home and want to clean my weapon...

Remove Pistol from holster.
Drop the Magazine.
Rack the slide to clear the chamber.
Release slide lock.

Decock.

I do not dry-fire weapons.

ALSO -

If i want to go from Condition 1 to Condition 2 - for WHATEVER REASON...

THERE IS NOTHING UNSAFE ABOUT DECOCKING A 1911 IF IT IS IN PROPER WORKING ORDER. :D

Enough Said.

NOW BACK TO THE ORIGINAL PROGRAMMING. :)

How does it compare in size to the other compact and micro compact 9s out there? Especially the Kahrs.
I am not sure yet - still feeling this question out...

It is (virtually) the same size as my Springer Micro Compact .45ACP - maybe an ounce or so lighter...

It is a wee bit shorter (sans the floorplate) than the P9 and about the same weight.

It is a 9 + 1 round count as well... an obvious advantage...

It uses the same IWB and Infinity Belt Slide holster as my P9, Micro Compact, and MY NEW Kel-Tec PF-9.

Grip is a wee bit smaller than the micro...

Hope this helps!!!

That's a nice-looking gun. I have always held the opinion that these mini-1911s are better off firing lighter cartridges like the 9mm. It's asking an awful lot of a tightly compressed magazine spring to push those big ol' bowling ball .45s up in time to be stripped off by that fast-moving slide. ;)

Awaiting a report on how it actually shoots. :cool:

Guys:

Well, I was fortunate enough to have personally added an initial-production EMP 9mm to my collection, and I can not say enough good things about it.... Let me take a quick shot at an initial report.

First, in terms of its size, the EMP slide appears to be of dimensions very similar to my Kimber Ultra CDP II and both guns fit the kydex holster I have for the Kimber. But the grip frame is smaller on the EMP, and it feels much smaller and more comfortable than the actual dimensions might suggest. Holding the Kimber and then holding the EMP...like night and day. I am a 1911 fanatic and have average-size to large hands, but I still like the smaller grip frame of the EMP the best.

The gun is beautifully made and came out of the box as tight as any new 1911 I have ever purchased (it was so tight, it worried me at first). I lubed it up good and hoped for the best.

I have taken the gun to the range (where it obviously drew a good bit of attention) on two separate occasions, firing 100 rounds of standard velocity hardball on each occasion. During the first range trip, reliability was sketchy at best. Virtually every type jam conceivable occurred, but the problems seemed to taper off toward the end of the first session. Accuracy was EXCEPTIONAL.

During the 100 rounds of my next trip to the range, there was not a single bobble or jam. Totally reliable. Accuracy was incredible. And it was easy to shoot.

I like the gun a good bit, and am now anxiously awaiting a 4" and 5" version from Springfield (I know that is coming, because I truly believe Springfield has hit on a gold mine. The combination of smaller grip frame and the 9mm is great.)

I hope this gives some insight into the gun. It is a keeper.

Boarhunter

Boarhunter, I would absolutely love it if they came out with a 4" or 5" version. I wouldn't consider buying the 3", but I'd buy a 4" as soon as it comes out. Hopefully if a 4" does come out, they will produce a version where the grip isn't any longer than Officer's model length. That would make an ideal 9mm 1911. 4" barrel to get decent muzzle velocity, and a short enough grip for concealability.

Bitstreamer,

As good as the gun feels, I can almost guarantee Springfield (and likely others) will come out with the longer barrelled versions. I shoot both Springfield (5") and Kimber (4") 1911 9mms already, and as much as I like them, I would replace them in a heartbeat with the smaller framed guns based on the EMP concept.

Boarhunter

Ps: This 3" gun shoots at least as well as my other, larger 9mm 1911s. In fact, I was shocked with the accuracy. They must be doing something right up at Springfield!

this gun in a "CCO" format (officers frame, ~4" barrel) would be on order with me.

Why on earth do you need to be lowering the hammer manually? If it's onto a loaded chamber, then you're just itching to cause a negligent discharge, and absolutely positively shouldn't be doing it. If it's onto an empty chamber, then you should check the chamber as clear, and then dry fire the pistol. It's not going to hurt it.

+1

I think it looks kinda sexy. I always liked 1911s, but they are a bother to CC for most people.

THERE IS NOTHING UNSAFE ABOUT DECOCKING A 1911 IF IT IS IN PROPER WORKING ORDER.

Good the Kimber isnt a 1911 then. I think the compact size and the fact that it comes in 9mm is probably a good clue.

I was under the impression this is an overall downsized 1911, not just another CCO or compact.

Also, does anyone know when the 45 GAP version will be available. My wife is very interested as she has small, slender hands.

Dave

Shot 250 rounds tonight... I did NOT clean the weapon from the factory...

100 WWB
100 Blazer
50 Ranger +p

The HP Rangers in one mag gave a couple of FTF - the HP's were perhaps an issue??? Or the Mag? I will do it again tomorrow after cleaning tonight...

3 yds. and 7 yds. - all in the X ring... chewed a nice hole!

ONLY ONE COMPLAINT!!!

I wish they had thought to put witness holes in the magazines!

It is light, great trigger, fits the hand REAL Well and dead-on accurate...

It is a Keeper!!!

what kind of holster are you using for it?

what kind of holster are you using for it?

Today I carried with an Infinity Belt Slide...

Tomorrow i will use the one that came with it...

I also have an Don Hume J.I.T. that fits it like a glove AND a Don Hume IWB that is SWEET for a little more concealment...

Now, how does this compare to the STI LS9??

Everyone has their own idea of what would be the perfect configuration for a small pistol of this type.

My idea would be a 4" barrel and chamber it in .40S&W.

Though the 3" 9mm has a lot going for it.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/solvability/PA090082.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/solvability/PA090081.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/solvability/PA090080.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/solvability/PA090078.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/solvability/PA090076.jpg

TC-TX,

I second your positive commentary on the new EMP; it is as nice a gun as I own (and I own a lot of them). I tried to convey some of the gun's qualities by the pictures, but they do not do it justice. Nor does giving detailed dimensions. The gun has to be literally handled and shot to fully appreciate its wonderful feel and handling qualities. It is a keeper for sure, and has moved to "carry gun" status.

I can not recommend it high enough. Springfield has hit a homer with this one (and I have already started saving my pennies for when they bring out a 4" and 5" version!)

Boarhunter

DITTO on the 4" and 5" Boarhunter!

I will be looking for them soon!

What do you make of the missing witness holes?

Does that drive you CRAZY or is it just me? I mean - to develop and produce a World Class KEEPER such as this only to forget the HOLES???

What could they have been thinking???

Get a Dremel? ;)

Oh, Yeah - THATS gonna happen!!! :what:

NOT!!! :D

TC-TX,

The lack of witness holes threw me as well. I can't figure an appropriate explanation for their absence.

In our local IDPA matches, the match director is habitually coming up with stages requiring less than max capacity of the mags, and without the holes to confirm the number of rounds in the mag, I am going to be seriously distracted...I am a bit obsessive/compulsive about things like that.

But, all things considered, if that is the most serious deficiency of the gun (and it appears that it is), I can live with it.

I do need some more mags. Have you tried to get some from Springfield or Mec-Gar's suppliers? I e-mailed Springfield yesterday morning about it, but have yet to hear back from them. I may call tomorrow if they do not reply.

Boarhunter

Boarhunter - I concur - if that is the most serious deficiency of the gun, I can live with it.

I am in the process of seeking additional mags as well (Springfield & MecGar).

I will let you know what I find out. I will look for the same from you... :)

TC-TX:

Ok, I got the scoop on mags (I went ahead and called Springfield).

Springfield is taking telephone orders now for replacement/extra mags at a retail price of approximately $23 per. Or, you can order by mail using the discount coupon that comes with the gun and your price will be $19.50.

If you use the discount coupon, you will have to add the part number for the mag, as it is not now listed on the form...Part Number is PI6070 and you should also note "EMP 9mm" on the form.

All current shipments of mags are going out with the new guns (not surprisingly), so Springfield quoted a delivery date of 120 days for replacement/extra mags (although delivery may be shorter than that, they are advising buyers of a conservative delivery date).

Springfield indicated there was no quicker source for mags at this time since the mag is proprietary to the gun.

I am putting my order in for several more mags today.

Boarhunter

Are the replacements WITH or WITHOUT witness holes?

I am assuming WITHOUT the witness holes, but I did not ask (because, with or without, they are the only mags that fit at this point).

Boarhunter

Well, People, I finally gave the gun its first semi-practical tryout...I ran it through a local IDPA match, and these are my thoughts.

I LIKE THIS GUN!!!! I LIKE THIS GUN!!!! I REALLY LIKE THIS GUN!!!!

By way of background, I got it from Larry's Pistol and Pawn in Huntsville, Alabama; he had two priced at $959...I got the first, someone else got the other, and more are on order. The gun was so tight at purchase that I almost questioned whether it was defective (It was not!). The gun has had 400 rounds of Independence brand 115 grain ammo through it, without a single misfeed, jam, or malfunction in the last 300 rounds (the first 100 were a mess as it settled in). Accuracy has been stellar, and point of impact equals point of aim for me and others who have shot the gun. I have cleaned the gun every 100 rounds, and it needs a good cleaning now following the match.

The IDPA match. I am currently classified as a "marksman" (and for those not familiar with that particular designation, it means I am not a spectacular shooter, but neither do I embarass myself at the matches). I am also a Safety Officer, which means I am not likely to shoot anyone else accidentally, and I am pretty good at keeping others from doing so as well.

As nifty as the EMP is as a carry gun, it (and others of its size) would not necessarily be the ideal competitive gun outside of BUG matches. So, as I stepped up to the line to load and make ready, the SO asked in a reasonably nice manner: "Surely, you are not going to shoot that little gun...." Well, I was and I did, and I think I may have impressed some of my fellow shooters (I know I impressed myself, something sometimes easily done!).

I performed with the little EMP as well as I have ever performed with any of my larger, heavier, longer 1911 firearms.

The gun was quick to handle; 100% on the money from an accuracy standpoint; totally reliable; and just felt "right" to shoot. Longer ranges; shorter ranges; tough shots; easy shots; none of this made any difference. Not only did I not feel disadvantaged by the EMP, but frankly had more confidence in it than with my others. And shot at least as well, if not better. All misses, and there were a few, were my own fault.

During the match, the little gun got a lot of attention. Not only its small size was noticed, but also the tremendous fireball that came out of the muzzle with every shot! And although I did not notice the increased muzzle blast of the short barrel, those watching apparently did.

And the most common question asked that night: Nice gun; what kind of Kimber is that??? To a person, they were pleasantly surprised to see that Springfield was the manufacturer.

Anyway, it was a well-received gun and Larry's next order is likely to sell out soon after arrival, I would guess.

In fact, I may need a matched pair.... I guess I need to talk to my bride about that, what with Christmas coming and all....

Boarhunter

Boarhunter, How is the felt recoil?

After a year of trying, my dad and I have finally convinced my mom to take a handgun safety class and get a handgun (possibly CCW as well). My mother is in her late 50's, of very slight build, and still a little nervous about guns (but we're working on that;) ).

She is a good shot with my .22, but to get her to carry the gun can't be too heavy or have too much kick. I had been thinking about that single stack Kel-tec, but the EMP sounds like it might be a better choice for her.

Thefabulousfink,

The recoil is not bad at all, at least for me and others accustomed to shooting centerfire handguns. And I would guess it to be substantially better than a Kel-Tek. And less than most J-frame and equivalent snubby revolvers. From my perspective, the recoil is equivalent to any other mid-size 9mm.

Although the frame of the gun is aluminum, and therefore the gun is a relative lightweight, the heavy bull barrel and the heavy recoil spring tend to take the sting out of recoil. Plus, the smaller frame of the gun allows for a better grip, which always equates to better gun control and less perceived recoil.

I can not answer whether this is the gun for her, but it is certainly a prospect.

My 9-year-old daughter, who has yet to shoot the gun, plans to make it her IDPA gun when she gets old enough to compete (but, then again, she ain't afraid of thunder or lightening...or anything else for that matter!).

Boarhunter

Thanks Boarhunter,

We are definitely going to have her "test drive" quite a few guns, but I think the EMP will be on the list. I think the 1911 style platform is a very stable and straight-forward to learn on. Also, most women shooters I know seem to prefer the 1911 in both fit and function.

But if my mom doesn't like it....I could allways use another carry gun:evil:

Thefabulousfink,

I like the way you think!

Boarhunter

And now for a few modifications (you knew it would only be a matter of time)....

I know that the ambi-safety can be replaced with a single-sided one. The MSH is the same as an Officers', so the ILS can go.
What can be done about fitting a short trigger for this gun? A standard 1911-sized trigger bow is too long so that's out. Can a short trigger body be somehow mated to the EMP's shortened trigger bow?

I've carried a STI LS-40 for years, 1911 style, thinner, and the best factory back-up in the World, bar-none, check it out.

Pleasant surprise today from Springfield.

Less than 3 weeks ago, I placed an order for 3 extra mags for the EMP, and I was candidly told by Springfield that these proprietary replacement mags were likely to take a long, long time to ship since current deliveries were being shipped with new guns. The estimated time for delivery on extra mags was 120 days, according to Springfield....

Ok, I figured, it is what it is. I wanted the extra mags, so I placed my order and then promptly forgot all about it.

Until today, when the replacement mags were delivered to my office. Surprise!

I like the gun, and I like the way Springfield is handling its business.

FYI.

Boarhunter

ILS or no? I could live without the ambi safety also.

Thanks for the range report, boarhunter. Good writing.

I had a chance last Saturday to get my hands on one that belongs to a friend. She brought it up to FAS for the women's study group, and I have to say that I have rarely seen so many outright cases of firearms envy in my whole life. Several of the women present seriously lusted after that EMP and immediately began plotting to purchase one.

I predict they will have a long and successful sales run...

Incidentally, the one up at the range Saturday ran like a top. No burps or hiccups that I observed, and went through a little over 100 rounds.

pax

Pax,

Thank you, ma'am.

But you sure burst my bubble.

All along, I thought the ladies at the range were impressed by my 52-year-old physique and my stellar shooting talents, only to hear from you that it is my EMP they lust for.... Oh, well. My child bride will be relieved (but not surprised) to learn the truth.

Boarhunter

Ps: Your website is very helpful and informative. Keep up the good work.

I just bought an EMP and its a beauty. This is the tightest 1911 I have ever taken apart. Everthing from pins to the frame slide fit is very tight. My problem/question is about 10% of my reloads would not chamber. The biggest that would not chamber measured .3904 which is barely under (but under)sammi minimum of .3913 (as quoted by Hornady). The ones that would not chamber in the EMP chambered easily in my other 3 9MM firearms. I've ordered another sizing die and a gauge for checking ammo to see if it is in specs. Has anyone had this problem? Springfield would not talk to me when I said "RELOAD" like it was a dirty word, except to tell me I voided my warranty.

Walkalong,

How many rounds do you have through the gun?

I had a terrible time with reliability for the first 100 rounds; since that time I have put probably an additional 600 rounds through the gun...all factory loads...without any problems whatsoever, so long as I keep the gun clean. I have had "slow chambering" issues when the gun goes too much beyond 100 rounds between cleaning.

My guess is that the chambers are as tight as the rest of the gun, and it performs superbly so long as you keep it clean and run factory (or factory equivalent) rounds through it.

Keep working with it. The gun is a true keeper in my book.

Boarhunter

Hey Boarhunter
Its not a feeding issue as far as factory or near factory spec ammo goes. That (115FMJ) fed fine as it should. I have not shot any hollow points. It did feed Ranier 124 Gr. Flat points if loaded SHORT. The feed ramp angle is steep. Anything that dips down wants to stay down. My reloads were the problem feeding, they would not fit the chamber. As stated, the reloads were almost out of spec. and this chamber is TIGHT TIGHT TIGHT. Good for accuracy. I'm going to dump that batch of brass and start fresh. I was just curious if other EMP's had real tight chambers.

Hey Boarhunter
I'm from Montgomery, Al. How do I make it show up where it identifies who posted?

Walkalong,

That practically makes us neighbors! Welcome aboard and congratulations on adding a fine piece to your collection. The EMP is a daily carry for me; and I have used it with great satisfaction in two local IDPA matches and one classifier match. And I plan to use it in a match again tonight. The gun is a keeper.

As to your technical question, ??????????????. Heck if I know how all this works. I have an IT guy on my staff that keeps me falling in the right direction when it comes to computer/internet stuff.

Boarhunter

Ps: Perhaps others here can help.

Hey Boarhunter
It is definitlty a nice shooter. I mainly shoot .45 but this piece just intrigued me with the shorter frame in the grip area. I wanted another 9mm and being a 1911 nut I just could not pass this up. I really like the shorter grip (front to back) but not the narrow profile. I am modifying regular width Officers grips for it. This makes it meatier while still being able to wrap my hand around the grip more. I'm also changing the ambi safety to a single. This is definitly a keeper! I might even carry it occasionally instead of a .45. It is slightly smaller and lighter than my 3" Kimber CDP. It will have to prove itself first. I suspect I will shoot more 9mm than ever before as this gun is really nice. No one can go wrong getting one of these.

I still haven't ponied up the dough to buy a 1911 I think this might be the first one I order. I sure do love Springfield they just keep making guns that people want to buy.

JD_Lion, thanks for reposting Springfield's size comparison picture. It is worth something of a laugh. All that extra height cut off the Springfield at the base of the grip makes the gun appear smaller, no doubt about it, only there aren't any flush fitting mags as are shown in the picture. Instead, the amount cut off is simply replaced by a mag that hangs out of the bottom of the grip.

In short (no pun), Springfield has a shorter gun, but not if loaded with one of their factory mags.

As for being the first and such and people saying guns will look like it, my EMP looks almost just like my Kimber Ultra Elite in .45 acp, same color scheme and all and virtually the same size, when loaded.

Boarhunter ~

Problem with the EMP belonging to my friend. Apparently one of her magazines had a baseplate problem which she didn't spot. Doing a speed reload, she shoved the magazine in too far, which bent the (extractor? ejector? she was fuzzy in telling the tale) badly enough that it needed to go back to the factory for repairs. Oopsies.

(I still want one.)

pax

i still like the concept of the smaller (front to back) gripframe. i'm waiting for the 4" barrel.

maybe i'll buy a short one now and sell it when the 4" models arrive

What do ya'll think. The mag sticks out anyway, right.
I would like to see an 8 rd flush fitting mag for carry though.

i'm thinking the silver magwell migt look better...match the slide?

Pax,

Interesting problem....

I have more than 700 rounds through my EMP (using the two factory-furnished mags plus 5 purchased thereafter) and have yet to have any problems with either the gun or the mags. And that includes shooting 3 local IDPA matches and one IDPA classifier, so the mags have been "abused" a bit with speedy reloads and lots of drops to the concrete floor.

Hopefully, your problem is an anomoly, not to be seen again in the future.

Boarhunter

The EMP was briefly reviewed on this weeks Guns and Ammo TV, they loved it.

i'm thinking the silver magwell migt look better...match the slide?

Ditto. Wake me up when I can buy one that isn't two-tone.

I think this is my next purchase, just trying to find one that is not 1200.00, local price here.

GunBroker - less than $1000 all day long...

Any word on where you can get a good holster that fits the EMP? I assume, based on the different dimensions, it will not fit in a standard holster for a 3" 1911?

The EMP was briefly reviewed on this weeks Guns and Ammo TV, they loved it.

You mean the "Been sponsored by Springfield Armory since the first aired episode" G&A TV liked one of their products? Say it ain't so!?!?!? :rolleyes:

It might be a great gun, but SA could release a rubber band pistol and those G&A TV spots would rave it was the best new firearm since JMB designed the 1911.

I'm intrigued by the EMP and its class of pistols, but my Taurus PT-111PRO has been utterly flawless, is the same size, weighs less, and holds 3 more rounds......and cost a good $700 less. Hard to overcome all that.

SA could release a rubber band pistol and those G&A TV spots would rave it was the best new firearm since JMB designed the 1911.

SA has a new rubber-band pistol?!? What caliber rubber-bands does it take, the big fat ones (.45) or the little thin ones (9mm)? I must have one!:D

I checked one out yesterday, $999, sweet little machine... So many nice tools, so little... :evil:

Still wondering on the IWB and OWB holsters for the EMP?

Just put my EMP on layaway. It really does look and feel good. I like the grips too...not too abrasive in my hand (felt slightly worn) but still easy to grip. Also, everything about it is tight and feels/looks as though it was precisely made. $979.00 plus tax.

g_gunter

Any idea when they might come out with the .40sw or .45gap versions?

Also on the wish list: an EMP with a 4" barrel. :D

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the .45 GAP version. Word is they have had significant difficulties getting the GAP prototypes to feed reliably.

pax

357SIG.......please Springfield..........please.......

+1 for 40 S&W and 4" barrel.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the .45 GAP version. Word is they have had significant difficulties getting the GAP prototypes to feed reliably


They called it the Defender and it just seemed to fade away...................... I wondered what happened with it.

Regarding holsters for the EMP...

First, the gun comes with a plastic belt holster and a plastic dual mag carrier that will at least get you by until you find another to suit you.

Second, though I am not aware of any available holsters specifically dedicated to the EMP, you may very well find that your standard 1911 3" holsters work just fine (or, again, will at least get you by until you find another to suit you).

The SLIDE on the EMP has approximately the same dimensions as those found on any other 3" 1911 (e.g., the Kimber Ultra CDP II .45); it is only the frame that is a bit smaller. So, there is at least the possibility that the holster for one will fit the other.

I have tried several of my Ultra CDP holsters with my EMP, and they are all satisfactory for my purposes. Not perfect, necessarily, but satisfactory for my purposes. Those three holsters include a plastic Fobus paddle holster, a horsehide leather IWB Galco holster, and a custom-made (custom to the Ultra CDP) Kydex IDPA-type paddle holster from Chris Stewart (Ready Tactical products at http://www.pistolpacking.com). They all work just fine for me.

So, there are no guarantees that all standard 3" 1911 holsters will work for the EMP, but there are options for you to consider.

Boarhunter

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k40/tydephan/010607_gunpics2033.jpg
It even settles Poker disputes. :neener:

What's the possibility of removing the bumper pad on the bottom of the mag so it sits flush? Would that help with concealability?

That is not an option.

The magazine actually extends into the pad, allowing for 9 rounds in a single-stack arrangement.

But frankly, the gun is quite concealable "as is" without having to shorten anything.

Boarhunter

Still wondering on the IWB and OWB holsters for the EMP?
I use all of my 1911 Compact versions with ease...

My 2 favorites: my Don Hume IWB and Infinity Belt Slide...

357SIG.......please Springfield..........please.......
Mr. Springfield - I SECOND THIS MOTION! :)

IMO - this is the ONLY thing that could improve EMP Perfection!

.357 Sig would be nice. I believe I would prefer the .40 though. I would also like to see an 8 round flush mag for the EMP.

EMP .40s&w will come out for sure.....per SA catalog

here is the url to the catalog

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?mmodel=24

Fondled an EMP at the last local gun show ... can you say S-W-E-E-T?!! Now if I can just remember where I left that 1G I had laying around. ;)

Kimber cant get the Pro carry right, what makes y'all think they can get a micro 1911 right.


no thank you.

GLOCK 26, all the way.

Kimber? What's this got to do with Kimber? My Ultra Carry II was flawless btw.

Glock? Schlock. Maybe if you saw the grip off and put it back on at a more comfy angle, and do something about the ugly factor. :D

It even settles Poker disputes.

hey nice pic! that is my new wallpaper:)

hey nice pic! that is my new wallpaper

Thanks! Want a high-res version of it? PM me and I'll send it to you.

EMP .40s&w will come out for sure.....per SA catalog

Where does it say anything about the .40 coming out?

Thanks! Want a high-res version of it? PM me and I'll send it to you.

PM sent.

Where does it say anything about the .40 coming out?

Click on the link above and then download/open the Armory Catalog and look for the EMP page of the catalog (requires Adobe Acrobat Reader).

Actually has a picture of it too. Awesome looking. I'm going to start saving right now. :D :p

Let's hope.

One funny thing: the picture of the "black stainless" full size PX9154L, is not correct, apparently. I called asking about it as mine is somewhat different. Mine, and the only ones I've seen have raised stainless slide grooves and all black components. The one shown in the new catalog and on the website has stainless components and black slide grooves.

I called and asked about this, and the woman I talked to was pretty sure they don't make anything that looks like the black stainless one they show in the catalog. Bummer.

Actually, I just looked at the newest catalog and it's back to normal. Dang, I liked the other look.

Quote:
Where does it say anything about the .40 coming out?

Click on the link above and then download/open the Armory Catalog and look for the EMP page of the catalog (requires Adobe Acrobat Reader).

Actually has a picture of it too. Awesome looking. I'm going to start saving right now.

Gotcha, Thanks.

Boarhunter,
Great stuff! I got my new EMP this weekend and have put 400 Win 115gr through it so far. Am having trouble with failure to go into battery, but it seems to be getting better. I find it very accurate as you have described. I am using a Kahr P40 Alessi holster for mine. An Alessi IWB I have for the P40 also works ok. Not a big fan of the kydex.

Again, I appreciate your input on the EMP. I had a hard time deciding between it and the Aegis, but first time I picked up the EMP, that did it.

Later dudes and good shooting! ;)

Rangemeister,

I am pleased to hear you are as satisfied with yours as I am with mine.

The only change I plan to make to mine, after about 1200 rounds in target practice and local IDPA matches, is to upgrade the front sight to a fiber optic of some sort. My ol' eyes simply do not pick up the front sight quick enough (even with the nuclear insert that comes standard with the gun), so I am contemplating something in blaze orange or fluorescent green...something that glows.

But that falls into the category of "refinement." The gun is great "as is," but there is always room for refinement.

Good shooting.

Boarhunter

Well, I found a LNIB EMP today and brought her home to clean her up. Disassembly was not as difficult as I imagined, not bad at all. Very tight, no slide play at all. Trigger seems a little heavy, I don't have a gauge, but I'm guessing 5-5.5 lbs.

Only thing I noticed when I bought it and when I stripped, cleaned and reassembled: the extractor head sticks out and is not flush with the slide. :confused:

Now, the only 1911s I have to compare it to are Les Baer and a Colt Gold Cup, all of which have perfectly flush extractors. However, even when I look at some of the Springfield original photos of S/N EMP193 they had on their website at the EMP's launch, the right side view of the pistol shows that the extractor is not flush :(

Worries? No worries?

Anyone else's like this too?

Can't wait to shoot it.

Oh, the other thing is the seller didn't have the manual or the "loaded" coupon. Hopefully SA will provide those for me when I call them tomorrow :rolleyes:

Regards,
James

Enjoy that Beauty Extremist!

Just checked mine. The extractor is not flush. Sticks out about .020. The pistol has been flawless since returning from Springfield. It always fed everything, and I mean everything. It had other issues which SA fixed at no charge and they reimbursed shipping as well.:)

I'm very interested in this piece... I have carried 3" 1911's for a few years, and love the size. I do have some trouble keeping the muzzle down for followup shots, though, and in smaller pistols I am starting to prefer 9mm for that reason. Additionally I have had problems the 3" 1911's in .45 that I've shot, and for a carry piece I want zero problems, and the newer platforms (or a wheelgun!) have proven better in that regard.

It is reported that Springfield designed this piece around the 9mm, and didn't just adapt a 1911 per se. This made me surmise it would be more reliable... However it seems some folks have had some issues. Hopefully Springfield will work them out, and the 3" 9mm 1911 platform will turn out to be a winner... I think it could be a great carry piece.

I'll keep my eyes on it. Always teething problems when a product is new.

I do have some trouble keeping the muzzle down for followup shots, though, and in smaller pistols I am starting to prefer 9mm for that reason.

I can machine gun 9 rounds from my EMP with virtually no muzzle rise and keep it on target as well with standard 115 FMJ. The +P 124/5/7 Gr loads are almost as controlable. It is a fine pistol.

I like my CDP II in .45 better though. I can fire it very quickly and stay on target. As quickly as realistically necessary in a defense situation. Th 3" guns don't recoil as badly as some make out. The slide mass is minimal and helps in controlling muzzle rise, at least for me. It is more of a push backwards than recoiling up. The worst is a 5" gun and a lightwieght frame. The heavy slide really torques up and over. :)

It is reported that Springfield designed this piece around the 9mm, and didn't just adapt a 1911 per se. This made me surmise it would be more reliable...

Mine is 100% reliable since returning from Springfield as stated in a post above.

Walkalong: although you may find the 3" 1911's in 45ACP to allow for quick followups, in my hand they are slower than a 9mm or Gov't model 1911. My Colt Defender was accurate as heck, and super fun to shoot... but I'm just not as quick with it. Same for the Kimber I tried.

By no means did I find the recoil objectionable, but I'm just not personally fond of the 3" 1911 in 45 due to the above issue for me, and the takedown (or should I say reassembly) of the bushingless pistols, which leaves something to be desired IMO in light of newer/easier designs.

This is only a statement on MY abilities, and in my hands, I have decided a 3" 1911 in 45 isn't the thing to have.

I'm interested in this little 9, tho. It looks like a nice design.

There is like 12 or 14 new parts specifically made for the EMP. Wait one year. Held one at LGD and it does indeed feel great but a 1k for a 9mm. NO way. Plus very few if any parts interchangeable with any other.

---------------------------------------------------
They counted on America to be passive. They counted wrong. RR

After reading all of the positive comments regarding the EMP I had to have it.
Purchased one today and fired 150 rounds. A little dissappointed with the performance, had several miss feeds and 4 or 5 times the slide did not lock back when the mag was empty. On two occassions the empty shell casing did not eject. I am hoping this is just a case of the ammo I was shooting and not a true indication of the performqnce of this gun.

what ammo were you shooting?

HBF11,

Do not get too disappointed yet in the feeding performance of the EMP. I too had similar problems the first few boxes of ammo, but they cleared up thereafter as the gun broke in and the parts all seated together. The gun (at least my gun) was as tight as a custom gun when I got it, and it just took a little while for it all to settle out. My patience has been amply rewarded!

Put more ammo down range and see if the problems clear up on their own. And start with hardball so that you can separate gun issues from ammo issues.

Boarhunter

Boarhunter is correct. I finally got 600 rds through mine and the mags that cleared successfully were very nice indeed. Alas, I am sending mine back to SA. Too many rounds simply will not fully seat into battery. About 1.5 per mag is too much.

I have been carrying a Colt Defender for a couple of years and really liked it. This gun is much more comfortable to shoot and I can string em really tight at personal defense range. Have not tried 15 to 25 yards yet. :D

Alas, I am sending mine back to SA. Too many rounds simply will not fully seat into battery. About 1.5 per mag is too much.

Mine went back with an under SAMMI min spec chamber which some rounds would not chamber in. ( .389 or .390 measured at the base rounds would lock up the gun and .390 is under sammi minimum, anything less never failed to chamber.) They opened up the chamber a tad with a reamer and alls well in EMP land. Flawless since returning.:) :D

Got my SMA number from SA last Friday. Went to range Saturday and began a string of rds that included +P+. They choked my firing pin channel. Cleaned, then commenced to shoot an assortment of 147, 124, 115, HP's and FMJ's. NO MALFUNCTONS after 75rds. Again on Sunday AM, 100rds of 124 and 115, one failure to go to battery. All Golden Sabre, fired excellent. Have polished front of chamber and ramp to a high gloss. Used Wilson grease on rails. Oiled everywhere else. May try another 200 or so. Gee, puts me up to about 1,000rds in less than a week?????? :banghead:

Send it in. They will fix it.:)

Fired another 150 rounds of American Eagle 115 Grain ammo,same problems.The gun smith at the range cleaned and did a light polish on the ramp and what a difference. 100 rounds with no problem. Shooting again tomorrow I will keep you posted.

Sounds like lots of folks are having fun with this new EMP!

Boarhunter

These new EMP's are very tight and cleanliness is important here. Mine had issues but feeding was never one of them. I cleaned and lubed it before I ever shot it and every time I brought it home from shooting even if it was only 30 or 40 rounds. Real tight guns actually do need a bit of break in, but having said that, "breaking them in" won't fix real problems. :)

Mine is awesome, I just am not going to tote it when my .45 CDP II is around and it is small for a range gun. A 5" version would be a great range shooter. The EMP in .40 or .357 Sig would be a real viable carry gun. 9MM lovers don't bash me. I won't tell anyone they should not carry a nine. I just don't feel all warm and fuzzy with one.:)

Just picked up an EMP based on the feedback here! Can't wait to get out and do some shooting, this thing feels and looks great. Just hope I don't have the tight chamber or jamming trouble some others mentioned here.

Thanks for all the reviews, very helpful in deciding on this gun… and I feel I got a great deal on it too @ $899.00 new! :D

Nice work! I got mine for $895+$20 shipping. Pretty good deal. I've yet to shoot it, but it cycles rounds very well, is super tight, and has a great trigger.

Don't get me wrong, I like an accurate gun. But having a gun so tight that you must keep it sparkling clean? I love the fact that I don't really have to clean my Glock 19 after every range session (my carry gun, I usually do a quick barrel swab and then wipe down). I'd been looking for a 1911, and specifically looking at the EMP, but after hearing this I think I'll get something a bit more dirt tolerant.

the naked prophet,

I understand your position, but suggest that you do not walk away from the EMP too quickly.

I too am a Glock man... or perhaps a former Glock man... with a history of neglecting my firearms, including my carry Glock 19. Like yourself, I went long periods and many rounds through my Glock without much more than an occasional quick lubrication. And I could do that with confidence that the Glock's reliability would remain 100%. I still have that Glock 19 and two other Glocks as well, but they have not been out of my safe in quite some time.

I now carry and shoot 1911 firearms almost exclusively, and my go-to carry gun (and frequent IDPA gun as well) is the EMP.

True, I have to keep the EMP cleaner and lube it a bit more often, but that extra effort is paid back by the superior feel and performance of the EMP. It is well worth it, at least to me.

Before dismissing the EMP outright, put a few rounds through it and see how it feels on your hip. You might find it worth keeping clean.

Boarhunter

do not walk away from the EMP too quickly.

Big Ditto.

Les Baers have a rep for being so tight people have to break them in a bit, but they also have a rep for being some of the most dependable 1911's around. The EMP is a great little gun. No I would not throw it in the mud and then try to use it, but I would not do that even to a Glock.:eek:

Okay, shot my first 100 rounds through the EMP. Ammo was Winchester 115gr FMJ. Had some of the same troubles other had;

1. Slide doesn't lock open when empty, out of 13 clips only locked open on empty 3 times.
2. Catches empty cases occasionally, after first 50 rounds (4 times).
3. Accuracy was very poor after the first 50 rounds (dirty, I suppose)
4. Cases started to get stuck in the chamber (3 times), not ejecting at all.

Cleaned it all up tonight... we will see how the next 100 goes....:confused:

Well, either these things are like the Kahr PM9's (tight as heck and need a serious break in, then if you get a good one function flawlessly)... Or there are some bad ones in the bunch.

Personally, I'm checking out. I made a promise to myself never to trust another 3" 1911 again after I had failures with 2 of them... But this one is so alluring to me because of the 9mm cartridge, which I feel is a better choice in a short barrel. But even though I want one when I see/hold it, I'm going to pass. I have no time for unreliable guns.

I dunno, my Kimber Ultra Carry II with a 3" barrel was flawless from round 1. And hyper accurate too.

My Kimber 3" CDP II has also been flawless fround round one.:)

I am suprised at the failure to feed storys with the EMP. Mine had issues that SA fixed, but feeding has never been a problem. It has always fed everything and the slide has never failed to lock back.:)

The EMP is a great little gun. No I would not throw it in the mud and then try to use it, but I would not do that even to a Glock.

Neither would I, but it's possible that you and the gun might not have a choice of whether to get thrown in the mud (or some other source of dirt/crud) and then need to use the gun. I know that my Glock will work if that happens. I'm not starting a Glock vs. 1911 thing here, I'm just saying that when I get a 1911 (still looking) it will probably be a bit looser, or at least more tolerant of dirt. Perhaps a Mil-Spec.

Neither would I, but it's possible that you and the gun might not have a choice of whether to get thrown in the mud

True. I just don't worry about it. The odds are so slim I choose not to.

Now, if I was going into battle where I would be subject to rain, mud, etc. etc. I would take an all steel 1911 rattletrap in .45 and never look back.:)

But, most of us are in clean conditions 99.9% of the time. I would not let the tightness of the EMP bother me.

Nice! EMP = Extra Money Project . . . and away I go to the local gun shop/investment firm . . .

Well, put three hundred 115/124. Absolutely no malfunctions of any type. My gun shoots a little high though. Great groups, just not shooting on target at the 6 oclock position. Got my new mags also. This made it easier to shoot the extra rounds. Keep cleaning the gun and it will stroke for you!

Happy shooting....;)

After reading all the online and print reviews, my wife and I decided to purchase an EMP (for her). We decided to skip the aggravation (hopefully) that seems to have afflicted a few of the posters to this thread. We ordered direct from the SA Custom Shop. Requested checkering of the frontstrap / under trigger guard as well as a complete reliability package and removal of the ILS. Also requested installation of a short trigger. Now we wait ....

Wild Duece. That should be awesome. Let us know how it goes.:)

Wild D. lets see some pics when you get it and let us know how it shoots.

Wild Deuce,

If you think she intends to share with you, you are most likely sadly mistaken.... My suggestion is that you go ahead now and order one for yourself.

Boarhunter

Rounds 101 - 200 through the my EMP today. Although the first 100 were flawless, I was much more accurate with the gun today.

I've yet to have the first failure.

Seriously guys, this gun is an absolute delight to shoot. Highly recommended!

Guys,

Let me give you an update on the status of my EMP front-sight improvement project.

I turned the gun over to my gunsmith and explained that the nuclear front sight was not readily visible and that I wanted to switch to a fiber optic sight. As it turns out, there are apparently no readily-available aftermarket sights as yet. And given that the factory sights ride very low on the slide and are contoured with the slide, modification of aftermarket sights would be difficult.

So my gunsmith modified the existing front sight by drilling out the hole previously used for the nuclear to accept a fiber optic pipe and then milled away a portion of the sight top to allow light to access the fiber optic pipe. Obviously, there are no "elevation" issues since the original sight remains in place.

The end result is a custom fiber optic sight that works very, very well. Right now, I have a lime green insert, but other colors are easily adaptable (I may ultimately insert a blaze orange before all is said and done).

I like the job and I like the results.

Boarhunter

Can you post some pics?

Sure. I will get some posted today.

Boarhunter

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/solvability/P3220108.jpg


http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/solvability/P3220105.jpg

Well, what do you think about this modification to the EMP? I like it.

Boarhunter

Very nice!

I think it was a creative solution to the problem, and it looks great. I may do the same thing to mine when I get it here in a few days.

Hmmm ... guess which pistol is gracing the cover of the latest issue of American Rifleman? ;)

I want one ... right after the new Wilson CQB Compact :rolleyes: ...

This was taken from an open letter from Springfield regarding its EMP:


Springfield Wins Gun of the Year ... Again
EMP Named Handgun of the Year by American Rifleman Magazine

March 2007

We are very pleased to announce the Springfield Armory EMP has been awarded the prestigious Golden Bullseye 2007 Hangun of the Year Award by the National Rifle Association's American Rifleman Magazine. This is the fourth such award for Springfield Armory the five years the Golden Bullseye Awards have existed.

"The Golden Bullseye Award, now in its fifth year, as come to symbolize the best efforts made during the past year by companies and individuals pursuing excellence and innovation in the manufacture of firearms, accessories and related equipment. We honor this year's winners for bringing to market products that are remarkable in their utility to the firearm enthusiast and for standing as exemplary representatives of an industry that traces its roots to the very founding of our republic. We are confident that shooters and hunters everywhere will receive this year's winners with great interest and appreciation for a job well done," said Joe H. Graham, Executive Director of NRA Publicatons.

The award will be presented to Springfield Armory during the NRA Annual Meetings & Exhibits, April 12-17, in St. Louis, Missouri.


The birth of a new class of 1911


Previously, when 1911s were chambered for short- action calibers like the 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 GAP, this was done on guns built around the longer 45 ACP cartridge. Spacers were placed in the magazine to align the shorter cartridges. The EMP is the first production 1911 designed specifically for these shorter cartridges.

The world got its first glimpse of the short-action 1911 in 2005 with a prototype Springfield gun called the "Defender." Chambered in 45 GAP, this rare gun received rave reviews from numerous firearms publications. We decided to launch this new class of 1911 in the more popular 9mm caliber in the EMP.


springfield-armory.com

The Springfield Armory Enhanced Micro Pistol (EMP) is the American Rifleman Handgun of the Year.

The EMP is featured in the current issue of American Rifleman Magazine.

Springfield XD 45 ACP, 2006 Handgun of the Year

Springfield SOCOM 16, 2005 Rifle of the Year

Springfield XD, 2003 Handgun of the year


Thank you all again for your support of Springfield Armory.

END

Boarhunter

New to the forum, so hi. Picked up an EMP on Thursday and broke it in today. Worked great with factory ammo but at first it didn't want to chamber Hornady 124g TAPs. With the flat nose of the HP, it's like trying to fit a square in a circle. After 100+ rounds, I ran a clip thru fine. I shot up some old reloads---115g FMJ with 5g of Bullseye. I knew some of them weren't properly sized and I did have quite a few jams (slide wouldn't close). I took a case gauge with me and checked the ones that jammed and they wouldn't go all the way in the case gauge either. Fuctioned flawlessly with el cheapo Russian throwaways (Timber Wolf?) in 115FMJ and Winchester Silvertips. Kickass pistol all the way around. I think I'll look into an IWB holster for warm weather/light clothing (recommendations are welcome---I tend to be a minimalist when I can). Wife will be popping primers with it tomorrow. I'll go with all factory stuff---I don't want to ruin her confidence. Also as a precaution, I gave it a good cleaning when I got home. Only improvement I can see would be some checkering on the front strap. It shoots better than I can shoot but I still beat the crap out of my gong and I haven't had a pistol in my hand in 8 years!;)

Tydephan, could you email that poker pic in hi-res? I'm not signed up for IM. Thanks.:)

Tydephan, could you email that poker pic in hi-res? I'm not signed up for IM. Thanks.

Email with attachments en route!

Welcome to THR.

I shot up some old reloads---115g FMJ with 5g of Bullseye. I knew some of them weren't properly sized and I did have quite a few jams (slide wouldn't close). I took a case gauge with me and checked the ones that jammed and they wouldn't go all the way in the case gauge either.

Springfield cuts the EMP chambers to minimum SAMMI spec. (Tight chambers) Reloaders may need an undersize reloading die (http://egw-guns.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=40)made by Lee and sold by EGW as well as others.

SA reamed my slightly undersized (below minimum SAMMI specs) chamber and I don't need an undersized die, but I also get rid of any overly bulged looking cases, even though my other 9MM guns have bigger chambers.

My EMP always fed everything (before some would stick in the chamber locking it up) and since coming back from SA it has been absolutely flawless.

After reading all the online and print reviews, my wife and I decided to purchase an EMP (for her). We decided to skip the aggravation (hopefully) that seems to have afflicted a few of the posters to this thread. We ordered direct from the SA Custom Shop. Requested checkering of the frontstrap / under trigger guard as well as a complete reliability package and removal of the ILS. Also requested installation of a short trigger. Now we wait ....

Grrrrrr ... just got word today that my EMP will be four months minimum from their Custom Shop and they will be unable to do the short trigger. Oh well, gotta wait in line. It should get here about the same time as the Milt Sparks holster.

I have to say the EMP is the first non-Baer 1911 I have taken an interest in buying in a long time. I love my little colt 380 gov, but it is beating itself apart and the EMP makes tons of sense to me. I only need a 9mm for what I am doing and am specifically buying it for carry and camping.

Too bad Springfields web site makes it very hard to get detailed high resolution pictures and detailed information.

I am looking forward to hearing about your guys successes with the EMP before I find one.

That is a very nice fiber optic job.

I am not a fan of the Novak night sights that SPringfield uses. Instead of using the ones with the white circle around the tritium, they use the ones with the silver rings around the tritium.

It is very hard to see.

I got to shoot am EMP this weekend. I was surprised at the lack of muzzle rise for that size gun. But, I hate the front sight when trying to use it in a dimly lit indoor range (not quite dark enough to make use of the tritium).

Since they are official Novaks, I thought that it might be possible to send the slide to Novak - and they can match the height with one of thier fiber optic sights. They might be able to modify one that would fit on other Springfield 1911s.

I had a TRP in the past, and I hated these sights. U may have to do what I did - I eventually put white paint over then because I just couldn't take using them at the range anymore, and I didn't wanna pay over $100 more for the trijicon Novaks that should have come on the gun to begin with. Sounds kinda strange - painting over night sights. But I had too. Too several attempts to finally get the paint to look good. But, I eventually got it.

Hi
Great thread. Has anyone done any sort of comparison between the EMP and Para's Carry 9? Im sorta curious about how these two pistols stack up against eachother? Anyone shot or own both?

Got an EMP for the wife last Wed. Tax out the door at $1000 :what:

Took it to the range this Saturday and it was very nice. After hearing about the "tightness" which may require some working out, I only purchased FMJ-RN ammo. Put 200 rounds through without 1 failure. Shot very nice and accurate. We'll put another 1-200 through before trying different ammo; possibly some reloads and factory self-defense rounds.

So far, it has been wonderful :D

I now have about 1,000 rds in my EMP and it is functioning fine. The problem, it is shooting high. Not only for me, but for several pretty good shooters where I work. Contacted SA and they are sending a set of sights, hopefully that is all it is. :D

Grrrrrr ... just got word today that my EMP will be four months minimum from their Custom Shop and they will be unable to do the short trigger. Oh well, gotta wait in line. It should get here about the same time as the Milt Sparks holster.

It seems that the "four to six month" estimate is a standard response. I walked in to my shop today to pick up some miscellaneous items and the guy behind the counter said, "Hold on, I have something for you." He came out with the EMP I ordered for my wife. I never saw a bigger smile on my wife's face outside the bedroom, that is, until she picked it up. Pictures (of the gun) and range report to follow.

The problem, it is shooting high.

Same problem with mine. S.A. installed a .020 higher front sight and all is peachy.

Y'all's shoot high, mine shoots low. The shots impact about level with the front dot, or about 2" low at 10 yards. Like y'all, I have had others shoot it and get the same result.

Given that the mags are rather unique, use the coupon and buy plenty of extra mags. The discount is fairly significant, but a one time shot.

OK, so it happened to me :fire:

After feeding a couple of hundred rounds of FMJ-RN though my EMP with no problems, I tried to load some 124 gr JHP into my gun and ... JAM

I can't open my slide. The cartridge is jammed firmly inside.

I own a Springfield Ultra Carry, which is identical in design as the EMP, so as I am am familiar with detail stripping my gun I removed the hammer and trigger so it couldn't go bang :what:

After stripping the frame, I can see the cartridge up in the slide, but alas, I can't get it to budge.

I just sent an email out to Springfield, hopping that they will cover this repair, since the loads were standard JHP and the gun shouldn't jam on standard issue!

Any ideas?

Well, if you can't fix it, get a bigger hammer!

I pounded it into submission.

The offending round is .389" at the case mouth, within the factory spec of .391 at the case mouth, according to the Lyman Reloading Handbook. My rounds that were firing without jamming were .385!

This barrel is definitely too small as the round that jammed was within spec. I'll be sending this back to Springfield to adjust or replace as necessary, especially since I scratched my brand new gun during this process :cuss:

Well, it's a relief that I got the round out of my chamber :cool:

Read back on my EMP. I had the same problem. It is flawless since coming back from Springfield. They are cutting the EMP chambers to minimum SAMMI spec so if the reamer gets dull..........under SAMMI spec we go.:banghead:

But they will fix it, and like I said, mine has been flawless since then.:)

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7930506



You know I failed to realize that springfield had invented a new gun.

My mistake

Her I was thinking that colt had invented this pocket sized 1911 in 9mm quite some time ago. here is a real one you can buy for half the price of the springfield.;)

Wife and I went out to shoot one night last week. It just doesn't like HP's. It has jammed with Hornady TAP's and Winchester Silvertips. I'd really like to carry JHP's for self-defense. At least the first shot will be HP and 9 hardballs after that. Fuctions flawlessly on hardball and accuracy is awesome.

Her I was thinking that colt had invented this pocket sized 1911 in 9mm quite some time ago. here is a real one you can buy for half the price of the springfield

i guess you could call it the original small 1911 if you don't mind the missing grip or thumb safety and the DOA trigger...but then you'd be disreguarding the Star BKM

From the SA Custom Shop .... checkered under the trigger guard and frontstrap, removed ILS, reliability package, trigger/action job, here it is ....

I wonder what a fair price would be for that checkering job at a local pistolsmith. I like it!

I did get to inspect a SA EMP at a gun shop. I held it, and it felt great in the hand. Nice and slim, smaller and more concealable than my Glock 26. I was planning on buying one, started shopping for the best price was until I started reading these and others:

It just doesn't like HP's. It has jammed with Hornady TAP's and Winchester Silvertips. I'd really like to carry JHP's for self-defense.

AND

OK, so it happened to me

After feeding a couple of hundred rounds of FMJ-RN though my EMP with no problems, I tried to load some 124 gr JHP into my gun and ... JAM

I can't open my slide. The cartridge is jammed firmly inside.


I guess I will stick with my flawlessly operating twin H&K USP Compacts in .45 Caliber for daily carry, or the Glock 26 (again, flawlessly operating) for a small 9mm, when the mood strikes me. (I know it is only a matter of time until I get a hiccup with one of these, but smooth sailing so far...)

Seems like I always hear about most semi auto problems being with 1911's.
My only 1911 experience, Para Ordnance 1911 has never had a jam, failure to feed, etc. either. Just a tad large for everyday carry.
If they ever work out the bugs, then maybe an SA EMP will be in my future.

Baldy

I'd like to see one made with a regular non-ambi safety, a trigger not adjustable for overtravel and maybe the whole thing parkerized or melonite coated...and for about $100-$200 less. Shoot, even put lil GI sights on it. Oh and maybe have the mainspring housing bobbed or at least a little rounded like Kimber's RCP .45.

A well-known instructor just posted some comments on the EMP on his website. Anyone else see these comments? Seems like a bit-o-work was needed on the tiny gun.

A well-known instructor just posted some comments on the EMP on his website. Anyone else see these comments? Seems like a bit-o-work was needed on the tiny gun.

name? link? Would be interested in reading them.

Where the heck is the EMP site?

http://www.defense-training.com/quips/05Apr07.html

I dunno, my Kimber Ultra Carry II with a 3" barrel was flawless from round 1. And hyper accurate too.

+1 (or is it +2 or +3) on that!;)

I typed an entire response and apparently I took too long to post it. I had to log back in and lost my entire post. I will not retype the entire thing except to say that I paid through the nose and got what I paid for .....

250 rounds of FMJ and JHP so far with not a single failure of any kind (yet)
hits to point of aim
trigger breaks like glass
puts 5 rounds inside of 1.25" at 30 feet from a sandbag rest


Also:

Contacted Springfield Armory directly (literature was unclear) and was told that +P ammunition is NOT recommended for the EMP.

TA4, thanks. The article says:

I test-fired the gun in the condition it arrived, and experienced several failures to feed. Rounds were stopping on the feed ramp. After cleaning out grit and metal shavings and generally slicking it up, reliability problems disappeared.

That is exactly where mine is hanging up. I hate to take a Dremel to this thing (to polish the ramp). I am content to shoot hardball for now but may have it done by a pistolsmith or Springfield.

sorry but the EMP is just plain ugly

V1.0 of anything is problematic. This thread isn't necessarily a great advertisement for the EMP. When enough people have put at least a thousand rounds through an EMP, when it's thoroughly broken in, we will have a clearer idea of whether this design is a success or not or just another sexy curiosity lacking "street cred" in the reliability department.

In the meantime there's the "ugly" but dependable G26 for half the money.

When enough people have put at least a thousand rounds through an EMP, when it's thoroughly broken in,

Should not have to be "broken in"

That said. Mine has been flawless since returning from Springfield.

The key words here are "since returning" :)

I picked one up two weeks ago. I put 200 rnds of FMJ (115 gr WWB, S&B, Am Eagle) and a bout 50 rnds of assorted JHP (including Rem 124 gr +P and Fed 147 gr PD), all without a single FTF/FTE, it just ran. The short sight radius takes a bit of getting used to, but my groups tightened up as the session went on. It's a very controlable little gun, sweet trigger, and I like being able to get all my fingers on the grip (I have big hands). So far, so good, looks like a real keeper.

I just put the first 100 rounds through my EMP without a hiccup. Excellent accuracy, great feel, and super easy to conceal. Label me happy. :D

Don't have all my totals in yet but we're approaching the 500 round count without failures of any kind. Last 100 or so rounds have all been HP defensive ammo ... Black Hills, Hornady TAP, Speer GDHP and Remington Golden Sabre .... all 124 grain except for the Golden Sabres (147 gr). No +P ammo per SA recommendations. The pistol is now tightened up and shooting consistent groupings. Will post pics over the weekend.

Wild Deuce
Sounds like you have a winner, I have been holding off buying one because of the problems from friends with there EMPs.

Bought an EMP yesterday.

Went to the range today, 300 rds later here's the report on mine.

Rd 32 failed to feed fully, a tap on the slide sent it into battery.

The rest before and after of the 300 rds of ball ammo worked flawlessly.

The mags did not lock the slide back on the last rd until 3 loading of each, then they worked as designed locking the slide on the last round.

I shot at 10 yrds for group on the first 50 rds. Two mags inside 2" at 30 feet, most of them inside 1.4 inches. They shot to POA, not high, low or left and right.

Fired the last 100 rapid fire, the gun worked flawlessly as well.

Threw some Win Ranger 147 loads into two mags, they feed, extract and lock the slide back with no problems.

I tore it down before firing the gun, dremel polished the feed ramp to mirror smooth, lubed the hell out of it with gun slick on the rails, end of barrel, locking lugs, etc. Got home and cleaned and relubed it.

It's good to go, and I have no quams about carrying it.

It's a keeper, runs fine and puts em where I want em.

Brownie

Good report!
Anyone try any 105gr Federal Premium Personal Defense Low Recoil Expanding FMJ in the EMP? I'm thinking about trying it and assuming it feeds, carrying it concealed.

I have an IWB for a 4 inch 1911 that it slips into just fine, but the leather being a little longer at the muzzle.

I tried the OWB holster I had made for my g26 and it fits perfectly, though a little loose [ which is fine with me as it comes up and out with speed ]. This is the holster I'll carry it in for now.

Leaving for the Knoxville area on the bike [ 1820 miles ] this Monday for a 9 day IFTS class I'm putting on and the EMP is going along for the ride with an extra mag or two.;)

Brownie

I ordered this holster last month for mine http://www.bulmangunleather.com/pdl.html

Don't have all my totals in yet but we're approaching the 500 round count without failures of any kind. Last 100 or so rounds have all been HP defensive ammo ... Black Hills, Hornady TAP, Speer GDHP and Remington Golden Sabre .... all 124 grain except for the Golden Sabres (147 gr). No +P ammo per SA recommendations. The pistol is now tightened up and shooting consistent groupings. Will post pics over the weekend.

Is it safe to say that one needs to order this pistol from SA direct, with the full reliability package? How much did that reliability package cost you Wild Deuce? For a pistol costing a grand, SA really ought to consider just throwing that 'lil old reliability package in with the stock gun :uhoh:

Looks like a sweet gun though, but based on the reports I don't know if I'd buy it without the total reliability package at this point.

Don't have all my totals in yet but we're approaching the 500 round count without failures of any kind. Last 100 or so rounds have all been HP defensive ammo ... Black Hills, Hornady TAP, Speer GDHP and Remington Golden Sabre .... all 124 grain except for the Golden Sabres (147 gr). No +P ammo per SA recommendations. The pistol is now tightened up and shooting consistent groupings. Will post pics over the weekend.

Is it safe to say that one needs to order this pistol from SA direct, with the full reliability package? How much did that reliability package cost you Wild Deuce? For a pistol costing a grand, SA really ought to consider just throwing that 'lil old reliability package in with the stock gun

Looks like a sweet gun though, but based on the reports I don't know if I'd buy it without the total reliability package at this point.

Hmmm .... embarassed to say how much it ended up costing me. I'll cut and paste my reply to a similar inquiry earlier (via PM) .....

How much do they get for ILS removal?
How about "reliability package"?
Thanks

I felt that what I paid was excessive but my wife absolutely demanded this pistol. It was a few bucks short of $1600. Here's what I got:

Checkering of the front strap
Checkering under the trigger guard
Removal of the ILS
SA's complete reliability package (includes throat and polish feed ramp, ejector fitted, tuned extractor, polished breech face ... don't know if this is also included in the package but I also noticed that the barrel was fitted to the frame because there seems to be specific highly polished areas in the frame/barrel contact areas.)
Trigger job (4.5 lb)
6 extra magazines
Kydex (plastic) gun holster and magazine holster
If you go to their website, you can click on the button that says 1911-A1 Custom Worksheet, they list specific prices for what I had done. Hope this helps.

One more thing, even though I felt like I paid a ton of cash, my wife absolutely loves the fit and feel of this pistol and more importantly, it has not failed once with ANY ammunition we've fed it so far. The accuracy is phenomenal as well. If I had known beforehand how much it was going to cost, there's no way I would have purchased it (yes, I did walk in and agree to purchase with only a ballpark figure >> $1200 for everything??? My mistake.) Looking back though, I am feeling better about it because of the level of performance we have gotten out of the little gun. Hopefully future incarnations of this pistol will have the kinks worked out and will not require a detour through the Custom Shop. We just had to have it NOW.

Final addendum: Took the pistol to a night shoot class two weekends ago. Put over four hundred rounds through the pistol. It was a fair mix of Winchester WB ammo (124 grain) and Remington UMC (147 grain). Also put 50 rounds of Remington Golden Saber (147 grain) and 50 rounds of Speer Gold Dot HP (124 grain). Not one malfunction. The accuracy is phenomenal at 50 feet. From a sandbag rest with 15 rounds, punched out an oval ragged hole about 2.5-3 inches wide and 1.5 inches high with 3 flyers (one from each magazine) crowning the whole thing. I think this pistol is more accurate than I can shoot. It's my wife's favorite ... now she's leaving my Kimber alone. The only remaining issue is that SA doesn't recommend +P ammo. I had an instructor that was intimately involved with testing this pistol for SA, tell me that they only say that for liability reasons. He said the pistol CAN handle the +P loadings and HIGHLY recommends any 124gr or 115gr +p HP ... particularly the Speer GDHP 124gr Short Barrel ammo. He says any +P+ (or higher) loadings will lock up the pistol (whatever that means). I would like to hear from others that ARE putting +P ammo through their EMP's ... how's it holding up? how's it functioning? chronograph comparisons for 124gr regular pressure vs. 124gr +P.

I'll shut up now.

Wild Deuce, thanks very much for the very detailed response and report..darn, if it wasn't so expensive I'd probably go for it with the reliability package! But shame on SA for not providing what I would think should be a basic and standard level of workmanship so that the gun wouldn't require hundreds of dollars more to work the way it should to begin with!

A "reliability package" that costs as much as a new Glock 19???

Cripes.

My mother's EMP has (supposedly) begun running with some regularity in FMJ now. I need to get her to purchase some defensive ammo to test those rounds, it was an early model and I suspect it may suffers from the barrel issues.

A "reliability package" that costs as much as a new Glock 19???

Cripes.

To be fair, please note that I had the front strap and underside of trigger checkered. This also required that the frame be refinished in their "Armory Kote" finish. I also had the ILS removed, a trigger job performed and I ordered six extra magazines. All these items together probably accounted for more than half of the added cost. None of them had anything to do with the reliability. Still, it did hurt the pocket book ..... "cripes" is right.

Just took my new EMP to the range. The magazine is extremely hard to get in. You either have to depress the release or hammer it with a sharp hard blow. My Kimbers just slide right in. Secondly, I had numerous jams where the slide would not close completely. It improved some after 500 rounds but still happens. I will be trying different rounds to see if that improves. Right now I have no faith in the EMP as a carry piece. I'll post results of different rounds and check to see if any one particular magazine has more jams.

Milfslapper,

Your chamber is likely one that was made too tight, it's been an issue with some of the EMP's to date. It goes back to SA and they ream the chamber to specs. It's a PITA to have to send it back, but thats the solution nonetheless.

Have them also check the weapon over completely to include the trigger bow, you'll find that the bow is causing the mags to have difficulty being inserted.

You'll get it back and it will run just fine. Reports such as yours have been mentioned everywhere and the above solutions by SA have been noted. The sooner you send it back the sooner you'll have yourself a reliable compact 9mm.

Mine is in the mid 2400 serial range and has been flawless from day one with the only issue of rd 32 not allowing the slide to go fully into battery. When I bought it, I understood the issues I might have such as yourself and bought one anyway knowing it would be made right if I got one that needed some work, but I lucked out.

Brownie

Thanks for the insights Brownie. When I called SA the gal in Customer service suggested I try different ammo and that the magazines were supposed to be that hard to insert. I'll call back tomorrow and get it sent in. Thanks again.

Milfslapper,

My mags meet some resistance ocassionally as well, but not enough to worry about them. From owning 1911's and having them worked on with a problem here or there, the trigger bow is the culprit to the resistance you are experiencing and need to "fitted" properly to avoid that problem on those types of platforms. If you hit the mag release button while inserting the mag, it will fall in with ease.

I don't believe the mags should be hard to insert, nor do I think the problem of FT feeds repeatedly is ammo related. Both are issues that can be corrected and the tight chamber problems with feeding is a known issue as I mentioned above.

You are welcome sir. Let us know when you get it back, it shoudl run like a top.

Brownie

Not to start a war or anything, but as much as I like the look and feel of the EMP, I would find it unacceptable to have to go through so much breaking in, and service work on a gun that has over a $1,000 price tag.

To me (a total novice) this is just unacceptable, when I consider that my G26 which isn't much bigger worked flawlessly from day one with any ammo I fed it for less than half the cost.

Why should a gun need a break in period? I love the look of the EMP, but I won't part with my hard earned money until they start making them correctly without having to send them back. I would have thought that guns in this price range would have a higher level of quality control and that the gun would be delivered to the store in perfect working condition. What do you get for the extra cost?

stogiegila,

Though not necessarily disagreeing with the positions you take regarding the EMP, I would offer a couple of comments.

First, the necessity for a break-in period is not limited to the EMP; in fact, many semi-automatic firearms (particularly those tightly fitted) require a break-in period of some duration. Most "experts" recommend that no gun be carried for self-defense without first running a few hundred rounds through it to seat the parts and ensure reliability. And I agree.

Second, my EMP was one of the earliest manufactured (serial number in the early 4XX range), and I had no problems with it following a brief "break-in" period. But since so many of the early guns did have reliability issues, my guess is that Springfield has "tweaked" the process to eliminate those problems. There does not seem to be as many complaints on more recent guns than there were with the earliest guns.

Finally, there is no reason you should give up a Glock for an EMP, if that is your preference. And whether the gun is worth the money is a decision each person makes for himself. As for me, I like and own Glocks, but I am also a great fan of the 1911 and own many of them, including the EMP. And it is worth every penny. To me. It is one of my favorites. Whether it is worth it to you is a decision you would need to make. But there is no right or wrong answer to that question.

Boarhunter

Most "experts" recommend that no gun be carried for self-defense without first running a few hundred rounds through it to seat the parts and ensure reliability

I could see breaking it in to confirm that a gun is reliable, but I wouldn't think it would make it reliable. Is there any evidence to support that a break-in increases reliability?

fletcher wrote:
could see breaking it in to confirm that a gun is reliable, but I wouldn't think it would make it reliable. Is there any evidence to support that a break-in increases reliability?

i don't think there was any inference that breaking in a gun would increase reliability. the break-in is just to seat parts and detect any flaws

stogiegila wrote:
What do you get for the extra cost?

i could see your concern if you were asked to pay $1k for a glock, but the 1911 platform is a completely different animal. when you consider all the design work that went into the EMP, i'm was surprised they were able to hold the price where they did...it must be modern manufacturing.

i was trying to explain, on another forum, the culture of the the 1911...why folks add so much stuff to them after the purchase...and likened it to a small block chevy (old school) or honda civic (new school), where you buy the basic platform and then personalize it. $1k is pretty basic for a working 1911...i just found my ultimate production 1911 for $2600

Surely you're not lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber by thumb? THAT is unsafe no matter how the pistol is equipped.

Are you referring to 1911s in particular or weapons in general? While I don't care for Condition 2 in 1911s personally, other weapons (the original Beretta 92 and the CZ-75 are prime examples) are intended for use with that method and dont' have decockers. Lowering a hammer is relatively simple and safe if done properly.

Boarhunter,

I understand your point. I have always loved the look of the 1911 platform, and actually owned two of them (a SA GI, and S&W Commander). However, I sold both just because I felt the gun was too big for me, especially for carrying purposes. However, both of these guns ran flawlessly from day one and were much less expensive than the EMP. The S&W, cost me $800, so it was close.

I guess, my big question is understanding the high cost of this platform in general and why it wouldn't come ready to perform right out of the box. To send the gun back to SA for their reliability package at an extra cost, IMHO means that they are charging you more for them to correct what should have been done in the first place.

No disrepect to 1911 lovers, but of all the threads I have read regarding reliability and finicky ammo choices, they predominently seem to be around the 1911 platform (or a variation of one). For a gun that has been around for so long, it seems odd that they can't be mass produced reliably in this day and age, especially when the cost of them is factored in.

Now having said that, remember I've owned two 1911s so far. I love the feel of the gun, the trigger and the look and will definitely get one that's smaller in size down the road. It just frightens me to pay that price and then have to go through hoops before it functions as designed.

Oh,

While I'm at it. Are there any other 1911 platforms that were designed from scratch to be for a 9mm besides the EMP?

Thanks

i don't think there was any inference that breaking in a gun would increase reliability. the break-in is just to seat parts and detect any flaws

OK, it seems to be a misnomer, at least to me. "Break-in" suggests to me that it's a time required to make it work properly. It just seems to be more of a test period.

No disrepect to 1911 lovers, but of all the threads I have read regarding reliability and finicky ammo choices, they predominently seem to be around the 1911 platform (or a variation of one). For a gun that has been around for so long, it seems odd that they can't be mass produced reliably in this day and age, especially when the cost of them is factored in.


There are several reasons for this.

1. The 1911 most are familiar is often not being made to or kept in original specificiations. It has been modified by various companies, individuals, etc. Some of these modifications are improvements (sights, safeties). Some are not (overly extended controls, parts fitted too tightly) and result malfunctions become more likely.

2. The 1911 is being made in calibers not originally anticipated and not all the conversions are well thought out. Similarly, the ammunition used is often not that the 1911 was originally designed to handle and not all the modifications needed to accomodate this change are done well.

3. The 1911 was designed in an era when machining was expensive, labor was cheap, and quality was king. Individuals would hand fits parts and 1) wanted to get it right and 2) could be fired (no pun intended) on the spot if things weren't right. These days, labor is expensive (and difficult to terminate or replace), machining is cheap, and quality is somewhat less important. So, you machine things as tightly as you can, laborers simply put them together, and promise to fix whatever doesn't work.

fletcher,

During the first 200 rounds through my EMP, I experienced every conceivable failure possible, but from round-count 201 through the present (guessing somewhere close to 2000 rounds) the gun has functioned flawlessly. I am not an engineer, and I do not know what happened between round-count 200 and 201, but the first experience I call "break-in" and the period thereafter I call "perfection."

stogiegila,

To my knowledge, no other 1911 platform has been designed and manufactured around the 9mm-40 cal length of cartridge. The Aegis is Kimber's shot at making a smaller feeling 1911, but to my knowledge all that distinguishes it from other alloy-framed 1911 9mms are the thinner grips.

Boarhunter

To my knowledge, no other 1911 platform has been designed and manufactured around the 9mm-40 cal length of cartridge. The Aegis is Kimber's shot at making a smaller feeling 1911, but to my knowledge all that distinguishes it from other alloy-framed 1911 9mms are the thinner grips.


It depends on how broadly you define "1911." Star and (I believe) Llama had Browning-derived 9mms that were sized to that caliber, and STI has one in production currently.

Buzz,

I stand corrected. Thanks.

Boarhunter

stogiegila

It just frightens me to pay that price and then have to go through hoops before it functions as designed.

Then I suggest you stay away from the 1911 platform entirely and stick with glocks, CZ's or a few others that have proven reliable out of the box the majority of time.

Just to add to this thread, I have an EMP and it's been flawless from day one with the exception of rd 32 which failed to go into battery. Gun has over 2K through it presently. I've not jumped through hoops before it functions as designed with mine.

You take your chances when you buy ANY gun, that there will something not quite right and needs to be tweeked. Some guns have less chance of having issues, some have more.

The 1911 design has always been one that reuiqred more not less user/maker intervention to make them 100% reliable for SD. Hell, even some of the high dollar 1911's from custom makers have issues more than a glock or CZ at times.

Guns get fixed, they run. The design is valid or it is not. It can be made to run or it can't. My EMP is superb in reliability to date, it won't run with the glocks or CZ's but it runs just fine. It needs to be cleaned more often than the other two mentioned as well.

If it frightens you to take a chance on a new gun, don't buy it, buy a glock and/or a CZ and your worries are over for the most part [ unless you get one that needs to be tweeked to be 100% reliable which also happens with those guns ocassionally.

Nothing in life is free, you want an EMP small 1911 platform in 9mm, you take your chances lilke everyone else does. In the end, you don't need a reliability package to have it be dependable as you suggested earlier. Mine doesn't have it, not will it ever need it to run well.

The price of the EMP, like every other gun is irrelevant if you shoot any real amount of ammo through your guns. The gun is 1K. 5000 rds of 9mm and you've just spent the same amount on ammo as you did on the gun.

One of my glocks has 78K+ through it with three failures of one kind or another since 1988. Thats about $14,000.00 in ammo alone for that one gun. Broken trigger return spring at 73,200 rds, cost 2 dollars to replace it. The initial cost of the gun is irrelevant at that point wouldn't you think?

edited to add: If you want a gun thats as reliable as a glock or CZ, buy the glock or CZ [ maybe throw in a Sig there as well :D] No 1911 will run that many rounds without breaking/replacing parts long before that round count, nor many other handguns for that matter will run over 50K before they are found to be out of spec and junked, if you can get them to run that long to begin with.

Brownie

I got my EMP for free by trading in two Glocks and I feel bad that I got the better end of the deal.

Buy Colt's. They build them on the loose side to help with reliability(like they were designed) and they are still accurate thanks to good bushing/barrel fit.

...

This has been a great thread, and read, the mostly good, along with some of the bad, but I just went down to my gun dealers, took a long hard look at this Springfield EMP 9mm, and put down the deposit on this gun for my wife.

If it's half the gun as my Colt Defender (I love it) I feel confident, after I break it in for her..lol, that she will finally have the gun she can have a natural feel for, unlike the Sig P232 SL, which she couldn't warm up to.

So, this great feeling gun, trigger, 9 +1 9mm, sweet drop-magazine, Novak night sights, 3 magazines, should win her heart.. It won mine, for a lock and cock 9mm.

Well, the Sig P232 SL has made, and does make, a great, around the yard, gardening carry piece for me.. lol


LS

Funny thing about all this fuss and hype...I think this has been done several times by several manufacturers over the years and they get no praise or their asses kissed. Now I pick up a gun rag or read on a message board about the hot new Springfield.

I have a single action Astra A-70 that does everything this gun is supposed to do and it has never malfunctioned after several hundred rounds, too bad the Astra didn't catch on...it had a lot going for it. Controls were like a 1911 and the locking system and other internals were basically Sig designs.

The Springfield does the same thing as my Astra at over twice the price, but I bet since its a 1911 it will outsell hotcakes and them some...it makes me sad in a way

I've had my EMP for about a month now, and before purchasing I read this and many other forums and even made a few posts myself regarding the problems people have had.

My EMP is a serial number 13XX. I have had absolutely NO Problems out of the box, regardless of ammo ! Prior to getting my EMP, I was using my SIG P229R as my carry gun; now I only use the EMP.

First: My EMP is the most accurate gun I've ever shot.... for me, it's probably more accurate than I can actually shoot ! I can do much better (tighter groupings AND placement) with my EMP than with my SIG, and that's the way it's been since my first EMP round; even though I've had my SIG for about 10 months, and shoot it at least once per week.

Second: The EMP is a really fine piece of work. As an engineer, I love the quality and the fit; of course the same goes for my SIG. I got my SIG with Crimson Trace, so I actually paid about the same for my SIG as for my EMP. Is it worth the price ? I certainly think so. IMHO both guns are excellent and of superior quality and I wouldn't think of getting rid of either. Also, with the EMP the included holster and mag carrier are excellent, and add to the value of the package.

Third: For carry purposes, the EMP is a trade-off. I have 17 rnd mags for my SIG, so I can carry it without carrying extra mags and still feel comfortable. With my EMP, I usually carry 2 extra mags in the holster which came with the gun, so that's not quite as convenient for me. However, the smaller size and lower weight of the EMP vs my SIG is well worth it. I very quickly got used to hitting the thumb safety when drawing, and I can actually draw and present my EMP slightly faster than my SIG; my thought is that's due to the length of the SIG.

My SIG and EMP are two completely different tools, and they both serve their purpose very well. You'll have to decide if you think it's worth the price for an EMP, but I certainly think it is. I agree with the idea that you shouldn't have any hassels out of the box when you pay $1,000 for gun; and for me I haven't had any with either my SIG or my EMP.

Finally, the EMP is just a pleasure to shoot. My SIG is also, but for some reason (maybe the feel and size), I like to shoot the EMP more.

Best of luck in your decision; but I think you won't be disappointed with an EMP ! :D

Quote: Also, with the EMP the included holster and mag carrier are excellent, and add to the value of the package.
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Was this just a bonus your gun dealer threw in, or is this some kind of *EMP promotion that is going on, or was going on?

*If a promotion from Springfield, could you advise me, give me a link, and when (Date/month) you bought yours.

Thanks, and I know what you mean, as the smaller 1911's, like my Colt, shoot accurate, tightest groups, every time, every range visit over my Sigs.

I think some of the accuracy equation must be the Novak sights.


LS

I couldn't find it on their web site, but to my knowledge ALL EMPs come complete with: case, lock, cleaning brush, holster + mag holster, tool bag (several items), and 3 magazines (9 rnd; 1 in the gun + 2 extra). At least that is how mine came, and I didn't negotiate any "extras" with the dealer.

Also, I got a Springfield "fully loaded" coupon, which according to their web site, they're still offering (look under "1911 loaded coupon"):

http://www.springfield-armory.com/specialoffers.php

With this coupon, I was able to get as many more magazines as I wanted (I ordered 6) at a price of $19 ea versus the regular price of $32. Quite a nice savings ! :)

Most of Springfield's products now come with a kydex belt holster and mag holster as a bonus. It is part of the case, as seen in the attachment (note it only comes with 2 mags).

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Looks good, as I will go down to my gun dealer today and "seal the deal" and if they show good faith, I will submit my DOJ on the new gun today as well.

Just another quick question: As far as you know, do any of these EMP's come with polished shiny stainless steel on the slides sides, or are they, yours, just the, hmmm, for lack of right term/color, are they a stainless steel slide that is kinda all grayish in color?

Again, my thanks


LS

To my knowledge, all of the EMPs have a matte finish. I have never seen a shiny stainless EMP.

But I'm not all that worldly. :p

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Thanks..

For a person that is "not all that worldly", lol, you're one of "the many" that make this forum such a pleasure to have joined, some time back.


LS :)

Thanks bud!

Now go get your EMP and shoot the mess out of it.

We expect a full report!

Quote: Thanks bud!

Now go get your EMP and shoot the mess out of it.

We expect a full report!
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Will do, but don't hold your breath, lol, but here in Calif, that will be 30 days from today, along with, after I break it in (just certify to myself) that it is 100% thru any 200 round session. As I'm buying it for my wife, as the Sig P232 SL 380 I bought her some 4 months ago has not won her heart, in terms of "wanting to go shooting more".. and I know what the problem is. Too much recoil with the blow-back action, which involves a much stronger spring, making for manual cycling of the slide for her, no-joy.

Add to that, the "thumb-release" of the magazine, and a tricky, slightly off center insertion of the magazine, then it goes up and in straight, makes for too many "issues" that she has with that gun, rightfully so.

That is why I'm so excited about this small 1911 9mm.. All the above problems mentioned, do not exist in the EMP.. along with less recoil, better bullet (more bullets), lighter SAO trigger-only over the 232's hard DA/SA-slam, and mags that pop out, and pop in, just that fast.

Plus, it looks so GOOD :) and is very, very CCW, size wise.

I hope my report, when it finally comes in, not only helps the male gun buyer, but hopefully some of the woman users, and their husbands/boyfriends, whatever, lol, decision-making, in trying to get their loved one's involved in shooting, with JOY, EASE, comfort and reliability.

Maybe, someone that qualifies (that owns one) should start a New thread, kinda like the Sig theads, CZ threads, etc., about this little jewel of a 9mm 1911..?

This thread, is some 10 pages, and worth every page, but may be too deep for a reader, on the edge, so to speak, about the good, or bad, of this "particular guns" unque features and advantages..

As I stand on, and believe, ~ Variety IS the spice of LIFE ~ and every gun maker has something good to offer, not just one make only, all others suck, which I can understand those loyal to one gun maker, but I know what I know, with Beretta, Sigs, Colt, and now coming soon, Springfield.


Will keep ya posted, just gonna be a bit.. lol



LS ;)

Man. 30 days.

Phew.

They'd have to put me in a mental institution.

I put a Glock 26 on layaway one day.

Went the next day and paid if off. LOL.

Your wife will dig the EMP much more than the 232.

Do this:

When she forsakes the 232, buy you a pair of Nill Grips and turn it into a sexy beast (http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k40/tydephan/Sig_232_on_vest_1_640.jpg)!

30 days?

California really ain't like America.

Boarhunter

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Yep, 30 days wait, and not a day sooner, or you have to wait another 10 days. This for our health, so we can change our mind if we want to shoot ourselves, or someone that needs Texas Justice.. lol j/k

Yep, that and to make sure we cannot, and do not, ARM-UP in haste, and start our own one-man Army and WAR here in the concrete jungles, thruout southern and northern Calif.

Yep, our tax dollars at work (not) thru great representation (not) more taxes, free giveaways to non-residents, to be politically correct, and everything is going to hell in a hand basket.. cept for our health, and buying gun powers, in check, along with 10 round magazines max loads..

Just a joy living here.. Soon to move, trust me, just got to milk our business a little longer, here where the money is at, then OUT OF HERE.. pronto.


Thanks guys for the support and input.. very much appreciated.. :)


LS


PS.. yes, they haven't covered the 30 day mental breakdown, waiting period, for many, but patience is one thing I own.. No problem, as I planned, and still am planning, far in advance, for the Storm that could, may, will, hit Calif one BIG DAY.

i assume you're talking about the 30 days between gun purchases

Quote: i assume you're talking about the 30 days between gun purchases
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Yes, a benefit of my/our tax dollars at work, I guess..


LS