C&R Question posed to the ATF


PDA






Technosavant
October 5, 2006, 04:46 PM
OK, a few weeks ago I sent this email to the ATF. Given some of our discussions, I thought I'd go straight to the source.

I am a holder of an 03 FFL for Curio & Relic collecting. A number of fellow C&R holders have engaged in a discussion regarding the bound book we are required to keep. My interpretation of the regulations is that a 03 licensee is required to log into the bound book ALL acquisitions and dispositions of curio & relic firearms during the time the license is in effect. This includes those curio & relic firearms that are not acquired in interstate commerce (those acquired not using the license). Others contend that logging of such firearms is not required. I would greatly appreciate a clarification. In short, is a 03 FFL required to log acquisitions of firearms that were not acquired using the license?

I had forgotten about this, but I said I'd post the reply. It's a 5 part reply.

Licensed Collectors MUST:
1. Prepare and Acquisition and Disposition (A/D) record as prescribed by 27 CFR 478.125(f).

This is the "bound book." We knew this one.

2. Enter into the A/D record all curios and relics acquired after receipt of the Collector’s license.

This is where we had the discussions. Note that there is nothing specifying whether the gun was acquired with or without the license. It is time period that concerns the ATF, not the method of acquisition. If the license is in effect, the acquisition needs to be logged.

3. Provide written notification as specified in ATF I 5300.2, Youth Handgun Safety Act Notice, when delivery of a handgun is made to a non-licensee.
4. Prepare ATF Form 3310.4, Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers, whenever the Collector sells or otherwise disposes of, at one time or during any five consecutive business days, two or more pistols or revolvers or any combination thereof, to an unlicensed person.

I hadn't noticed these before, but at the same time, unless you are in the habit of disposing C&R handguns to non-licensees, it isn't an issue. Just keep this in mind if you are selling one or more to a non-licensee.

5. Report the theft or loss of a firearm, within 48 hours of discovery, by telephoning ATF at 1-800-800-3855. Also ATF Form 3310.11, Federal Firearms Theft/Loss Report, must be prepared in accordance with the instructions on the form.

If somebody steals a C&R from you, let the ATF know. Simple enough- the form is provided in the big packet we licensees get.

So there it is.

If you enjoyed reading about "C&R Question posed to the ATF" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Bruce333
October 5, 2006, 04:52 PM
Thank you!

This is what I took it to mean, but good to have it spelled out.

Tagged for future referance.

SaxonPig
October 5, 2006, 11:17 PM
So far this is the only "down side" to having the C&R that I have heard. I think it's ridiculous to log guns not acquired by actually using the license. So, I find a nice 1954 Colt at a gun shop and I buy it as a retail customer and the dealer logs it out to me as the buyer and I pay sales tax on it then I have to enter it into my C&R log at home? Stupid.

Since I have never heard of anyone with a C&R even being inspected (one guy had his over 20 years with no inspections) it likely would never be an issue anyway. How hard are they going to investigate which guns you owned before obtaining the C&R and which ones need to be logged?

I know it's not really that big a deal but it irks me. It's government intrusion and it's just plain stupid. I guess I already said that.

Makes it even more appealling to let the C&R lapse every 3 years and reapply rather than renew. Once it lapses you throw away your log and start over. Typical bureaucratic thinking. Keep records on guns that don't need to be recorded,.. but by the way... every 3 years you can toss all those very, very important records away.

knuckles
October 5, 2006, 11:44 PM
However, the license only applies to C&R right? I mean, I buy a brand new firearm, I don't have to log it in my bound book right?

Car Knocker
October 6, 2006, 01:41 AM
Right.

Hkmp5sd
October 6, 2006, 03:22 AM
(one guy had his over 20 years with no inspections)

Me. :)

spin180
October 6, 2006, 05:14 AM
3. Provide written notification as specified in ATF I 5300.2, Youth Handgun Safety Act Notice, when delivery of a handgun is made to a non-licensee.

I know of the rule that you're supposed provide the little Youth Handgun Safety pamphlet to an individual when you transfer a handgun to them, but I don't recall being required to give notice to the BATFE.

Anyone know something further about this? I've looked over atf.gov, but I can't immediately find anything pertaining to this.

Maybe my thinking is just akilter.

:confused:

HKUSP45C
October 6, 2006, 08:46 AM
I know of the rule that you're supposed provide the little Youth Handgun Safety pamphlet to an individual when you transfer a handgun to them, but I don't recall being required to give notice to the BATFE.

Anyone know something further about this? I've looked over atf.gov, but I can't immediately find anything pertaining to this.

Maybe my thinking is just akilter.

You'll notice it doesn't say provide notice "to the BATFE" .... I assume it means provide notice to the "non-licensee."

Licensed Collectors MUST:
3. Provide written notification as specified in ATF I 5300.2, Youth Handgun Safety Act Notice, when delivery of a handgun is made to a non-licensee.

My guess is the "written notification" is the pamphlet of which you speak.

spin180
October 6, 2006, 11:53 AM
Mmmkay.

But that sure is a weird way of saying, "give'em the pamphlet."

:rolleyes:

Technosavant
October 6, 2006, 05:28 PM
It just says "written notification." It doesn't say to whom it must be given. Since it has to do with safety, it must be the buyer.

As for the inspections, I wouldn't expect to get audited by them unless you reported a large number of dispositions on a renewal form. I don't really care if I have to log stuff even purchased locally; I'd rather log it in my own book than go through the 4473 and have that form kept on hand somewhere else. Either way, they can trace it to you. With it in my bound book, I have a good log of all C&R guns in my collection.

Zundfolge
October 6, 2006, 05:56 PM
So you get an answer and now I have more questions :p
5. Report the theft or loss of a firearm, within 48 hours of discovery, by telephoning ATF at 1-800-800-3855. Also ATF Form 3310.11, Federal Firearms Theft/Loss Report, must be prepared in accordance with the instructions on the form.

That says "...theft or loss of a firearm..." it doesn't seem to specify a Curio or Relic firearm.

So if you have a C&R FFL and one of your modern firearms comes up stolen do you have to report it to the ATF because you've got a C&R?

Car Knocker
October 6, 2006, 06:06 PM
Section 923 (g), Title 18 U.S.C. requires each Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) to report the theft/loss of a firearm from the licensee's inventory or from the collection of a licensed collector within 48 hours of discovery.....

Your C&R collection is composed of those arms listed in your bound book.

Red Tornado
October 6, 2006, 06:15 PM
Technosavant, what are you thinking...getting real information. How can that possibly help to escalate discussions and arguments? :evil:

Thanks for posting this, I'm going to print it off and put it in my bound book.
RT

Sam Adams
October 6, 2006, 07:13 PM
Makes it even more appealling to let the C&R lapse every 3 years and reapply rather than renew. Once it lapses you throw away your log and start over. Typical bureaucratic thinking. Keep records on guns that don't need to be recorded,.. but by the way... every 3 years you can toss all those very, very important records away.

There's an item for discussion...actually, it is a simple thing to find out from the ATF. If you're a C&R dealer, and the license lapses, what happens to the bound book? My understanding is that it is NOT turned in. Now, if you "re-up" is it as if you had never had the C&R before? Or, do they give you the same ID#, as if it had gone dormant, and then they expect the bound book to be "woken up" as well? I don't know the answer.

One PITA about doing things this way is that you'd likely have to send new license copies to every vendor with whom you deal. Of course, I've never renewed before - you might need to do this anyway. Maybe someone who's been through a renewal can tell us?

Zundfolge
October 6, 2006, 07:23 PM
There's an item for discussion...actually, it is a simple thing to find out from the ATF. If you're a C&R dealer, and the license lapses, what happens to the bound book? My understanding is that it is NOT turned in. Now, if you "re-up" is it as if you had never had the C&R before? Or, do they give you the same ID#, as if it had gone dormant, and then they expect the bound book to be "woken up" as well? I don't know the answer.
I'm thinking bad idea ... on the off chance you got audited (and letting your C&R lapse just to get a new one might flag you) I imagine they would give you a hard time for any C&R eligible firearms in your possession that are NOT in your bound book even if you had them decades before getting your C&R FFL (this is why many will tell you to put ALL your C&R eligible firearms in your bound book regardless of when you bought them).

We're not talking about a friendly agency here who wants to make your gun collecting easier ... we're talking about an agency with a history of making up test results for court, stomping kittens, setting up gun show purchasers (asking them if they want to sell the rifle they just bought for a profit and then arresting them for "dealing" without a license), burning down buildings with women and children inside and other assorted jack booted thuggery.

I recommend you not try to find the limits of the law with these people.

One PITA about doing things this way is that you'd likely have to send new license copies to every vendor with whom you deal. Of course, I've never renewed before - you might need to do this anyway. Maybe someone who's been through a renewal can tell us?
When you renew you'll have to send out new copies anyway ... the FFLs have expiration dates on them.

mrmeval
October 6, 2006, 07:40 PM
http://iweb.tntech.edu/cpardue/youthnotice.html

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU.OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS

YOUTH HANDGUN SAFETY ACT NOTICE

ATF 1 5300.2 (7-98)



(1) The misuse of handguns is a leading contributor to juvenileviolence and fatalities.

(2) Safely storing and securing firearms away from childrenwill help prevent the unlawful possession of handguns by juveniles,stop accidents, and save lives.

(3) Federal law prohibits, except in certain limited circumstances,anyone under 18 years of age from knowingly possessing a handgun,or any person from selling, delivering, or otherwise transferringa handgun to a person under 18.

(4) A knowing violation of the prohibition against selling,delivering, or otherwise transferring a handgun to a person underthe age of 18 is, under certain circumstances, punishable by upto 10 years in prison.

FEDERAL LAW

The Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44,provides in pertinent part as follows:

18 U.S.C. 922(x)

(x) (1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver,or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows orhas reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile-
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.

(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenileto knowingly possess-
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.

(3) This subsection does not apply to-
(A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenileor to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenileif the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the juvenile
(i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching orfarming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile(or on property used for ranching or farming at which the juvenile,with the permission of the property owner or lessee, is performingactivities related to the operation of the farm or ranch), targetpractice, hunting, or a course of instruction in the safe andlawful use of a handgun;
(ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile's parent orguardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local lawfrom possessing a firearm, except-
(I) during transportation by the juvenile of an unloaded handgunin a locked container directly from the place of transfer to aplace at which an activity described in clause (i) is to takeplace and transportation by the juvenile of that handgun, unloadedand in a locked container, directly from the place at which suchan activity took place to the transferor; or

(II) with respect to ranching or arming activities as describedin clause (i), a juvenile may possess and use a handgun or ammunitionwith the prior written approval of the juvenile's parent or legalguardian and at the direction of an adult who is not prohibitedby Federal, State or local law from posses-sing a firearm;
(iii) the juvenile has the prior written consent in the juvenile'spossession at all times when a handgun is in the possession ofthe juvenile; and
(iv) in accordance with State and local law;
(B) a juvenile who is a member of the Armed Forces of the UnitedStates or the National Guard who possesses or is armed with ahandgun in the line of duty;
(C) a transfer by inheritance of title (but not possession) ofa handgun or ammunition to a juvenile; or
(D) the possession of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile takenin defense of the juvenile or other persons against an intruderinto the residence of the juvenile or a residence in which hejuvenile is an invited guest.

(4) A handgun or ammunition, the possession of which is transferredto a juvenile in circumstances in which the transferor is notin violation of this subsection shall not be subject to permanentconfiscation by the Government if its possession by the juvenilesubsequently becomes unlawful because of the conduct of the juvenile,but shall be returned to the lawful owner when such handgun orammunition is no longer required by the Government for the purposesof investigation or prosecution.

(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term "juvenile"means a person who is less than 18 years of age.

(6)
(A) In a prosecution of a violation of this subsection, the courtshall require the presence of a juvenile defendant's parent orlegal guardian at all proceedings.
(B) The court may use the contempt power to enforce subparagraph(A).
(C) The court may excuse attendance of a parent or legal guardianof a juvenile defendant at a proceeding in a prosecution of aviolation of this subsection for good cause shown.

18 U.S.C. 924(a)(6)

(6)(A)
(i) A juvenile who violates section 922(x) shall be fined underthis title, imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both, except thata juvenile described in clause (ii) shall be sentenced to probationon appropriate conditions and shall not be incarcerated unlessthe juvenile fails to comply with a condition of probation.

(ii) A juvenile is described in this clause .if --

(I) the offense of which the juvenile is charged is possessionof a handgun or ammunition in violation of section 922(x)(2);and

(II) the juvenile has not been convicted in any court of anoffense (including an offense under section 922(x) or a similarState law, but not including any other offense consisting of conductthat if engaged in by an adult would not constitute an offense)or adjudicated as a juvenile delinquent for conduct that if engagedin by an adult would constitute an offense. (B) A person otherthan a juvenile who knowingly violates section 922(x)-(i) shallbe fined under this title, imprisoned not more than I year, orboth; and

(ii) if the person sold, delivered, or otherwise transferreda handgun or ammunition to a juvenile knowing or having reasonablecause to know that the juvenile intended to carry or otherwisepossess or discharge or otherwise use the handgun or ammunitionin the commission of a c~7ime of violence, shall be fined underthis title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.

If you have any questions, contact:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
650 Massachusetts Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20226

Phone: (202)927-7770 OR

Visit our web site at www.atf.treas.gov

Technosavant
October 6, 2006, 09:29 PM
Sorry Red Tornado; silly me in thinking real facts were useful in internet discussions; you are correct that wild guesses and uneducated opinions are more fun. :evil: :neener:

As far as stolen guns go, these regulations apply only to your C&R collection. Non-C&R guns aren't a concern with regards to your license.

SaxonPig
October 6, 2006, 11:36 PM
Sam Adams- I can't cite it but I read in some ATF material that a C&R holder who turns in or doesn't renew his license may simply destroy his log book. Not true, of course, for an FFL dealer who must send his log someplace for the feds to have.

I don't know if lapsing and renewing would raise any flags. I doubt it.

Since all they can do is inspect your log book there's not much chance of them noticing unlogged guns laying around since they woul;dn't see my guns without a warrant. And if they did see them, how would they know they were C&R at a glance in most cases? And how would they know you didn't own them before getting the C&R license? And would they really care about any of this since they seem very casual about C&R holders.

I still think that logging ALL C&R guns is the ATF misreading the regs. I don't think it was intended to read that way.

Hkmp5sd
October 7, 2006, 12:48 AM
Since all they can do is inspect your log book there's not much chance of them noticing unlogged guns laying around since they woul;dn't see my guns without a warrant.

The annual inspection includes both your bound book and your inventory.

923 (g)(1)(D) At the election of a licensed collector, the annual inspection of records and inventory permitted under this paragraph shall be performed at the office of the Attorney General designed for such inspections which is located in closest proximity to the premises where the inventory and records of such licensed collector are maintained.

You may be thinking of NFA items of which they may request to review the paperwork but not cannot demand to actually see the item without a warrant.

Technosavant
October 7, 2006, 11:28 AM
Note that the "annual inspection" is NOT an inspection carried out once a year. It in an inspection that, at the ATF's request can ONLY happen once a year. If they decide to give a look-see to your collection in November of this year, they have to wait until November of 2007 before doing it again. The ATF usually is busy enough with 01 FFLs, they don't waste much time on us 03 FFLs.

The one inspection I have read about consisted of "We see this listed in your bound book, may we see the firearm? OK, thanks. Have a nice day."

And when your license lapses, a C&R licensee does not turn in the book. You are allowed to torch it.

SaxonPig
October 7, 2006, 06:42 PM
I may be wrong but I am certain that I recall the C&R inspection is the book only unless they have some specific gun in mind, such as the case cited above. I suspect that they were following that particular gun for some reason and wanted to make sure it was properly logged. I had this happen years ago when I had a 001 FFL. Bought 3 guns at a police auction and 2 weeks later the ATF called and wanted to inspect me. When the agent arrived he checked my book and then asked to see those 3 specific guns. He said some dealers who bought at that auction didn't log the purchases and when checked they couldn't produce the guns, either, meaning they had sold them off the book. Stupid. So now they were checking up on all the guns sold from that sale. Mine were all logged and physically present.

DogBonz
October 31, 2006, 12:58 PM
I hadn't noticed these before, but at the same time, unless you are in the habit of disposing C&R handguns to non-licensees, it isn't an issue. Just keep this in mind if you are selling one or more to a non-licensee.


Who is a "non-licensee". Is this a person who does not have a C&R, or some one who does not have a gun license?

thanks

Car Knocker
October 31, 2006, 01:46 PM
A non-licensee is a person who does not have an FFL. Most states do not require a license or permit to purchase or possess firearms.

elric
October 31, 2006, 04:28 PM
Hmmm, what about things that become a C&R after you get your license? I have my grandmother's Winchester 94 that was made in 1958. Its not a C&R yet, but will be in 2 years. If I sell it after 2008 (no plans to do so, but "what if"), do I need to fill out a disposition record, since it was a C&R when I disposed of it? Am I worrying to much about little details? :)

Car Knocker
October 31, 2006, 06:29 PM
You are only required to enter a C&R in your bound book if you acquire it AFTER you get your C&R FFL. If you haven't acquired it as a C&R, then you can't dispose of it as a C&R.

elric
October 31, 2006, 06:38 PM
You are only required to enter a C&R in your bound book if you acquire it AFTER you get your C&R FFL. If you haven't acquired it as a C&R, then you can't dispose of it as a C&R.


Hmmm, but how does ATF know when I acquired it? Did I acquire it in 1993 before it was a C&R, or 2008 after it became one?

If they audit me in 2009 and notice I have a C&R eligible firearm that's not in the book, is the burden of proof on me or on them to prove when I got it?

knuckles
October 31, 2006, 09:04 PM
Hmmm, but how does ATF know when I acquired it? Did I acquire it in 1993 before it was a C&R, or 2008 after it became one?

If they audit me in 2009 and notice I have a C&R eligible firearm that's not in the book, is the burden of proof on me or on them to prove when I got it?

Well, I guess the general idea is that there should be a reciprocating record with the dealer you purchased the C&R from (or weapon that wasn't previously C&R but which is now with the passing of time). If you claimed that you had the C&R eligible firearm before you had your license, and they found an entry in a dealers book that said otherwise, you'd be in trouble. However, the chances of them being able to find something like that would be minimal. They would most likely have to be looking for a particular firearm to uncover such an inconsistancy in record keeping across current and previous owners. Of course this doesn't cover private party deals, but I digress...

All in all I think it comes down to what a few have said here before: you aren't going to be audited. It's my belief that even if you are and you have made an honest best effort to keep your book up to date, you'll probably be fine.

Lone_Gunman
October 31, 2006, 09:06 PM
Hmmm, but how does ATF know when I acquired it? Did I acquire it in 1993 before it was a C&R, or 2008 after it became one?


All they have to do is ask you. Lying to a federal agent is probably not a good idea.

It is not a big deal to log your guns. Just log them and forget about it. No one has ever heard of a C&R holder get audited. Its possible, but it appears the ATF is busy doing other things.

If you ever fail to renew your C&R, this all becomes moot, because you don't have to keep your book or turn it in.

Dr. Dickie
November 2, 2006, 09:23 AM
I have a follow up question.
I have about 7 or 8 rifles that qualify as C&R (all purchased well before I got my C&R). If I sell one, do I log the sale in the book (since the purchase was not logged in there). I don't plan on selling any, but just curious.

Car Knocker
November 2, 2006, 01:45 PM
No, because it wasn't acquired while you had your C&R.

gezzer
November 2, 2006, 09:50 PM
You are only required to enter a C&R in your bound book if you acquire it AFTER you get your C&R FFL. If you haven't acquired it as a C&R, then you can't dispose of it as a C&R.

Wrong, if it is a C&R when you got it has nothing to do with how you dispose it. It goes in your log book if you aquired it with the license. You may dispose of any C&R you own. If you are more comfortable shipping it book it into your log as aquiring it from yourself.

Hkmp5sd
November 3, 2006, 03:38 AM
It goes in your log book if you aquired it with the license.


It goes it your bound book no matter HOW your acquired it, as long as you acquired it after you obtained your 03-FFL.



Department of the Treasury
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
F: PD: FB: FT: nvc
AUG 10 1998

(inside address redacted)

Dear Mr. (redacted):

This is in response to your letter dated July 20, 1998, to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. In your letter, you have inquired whether it is necessary to record the transfer of a curio or relic firearm in your acquisition and disposition records.

Please be advised that, in accordance with 27 CFR [S] 178.125 (g), a licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics. Therefore, regardless of whether the curio or relic firearm was obtained using your collector's license, the acquisition must be entered into your records upon receipt. Accordingly, if you, as a licensed collector, dispose of a curio or relic firearm, the disposition also must be entered into your record book regardless of when it was obtained.

We trust the foregoing has been responsive to your request. Should you require additional information or have any questions, please contact us.

Sincerely yours,
(initialed) KRD
for Christopher M. Cuyler
Chief, Firearms Programs Division


http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/gorge/4653/preowned.htm

Department of the Treasury
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Washington, DC 20226
Dear Mr. Rxxx,
This is in response to your letter dated October 18, 1996, requesting information concerning the acquisition and disposition of curio and relic firearms.
In response to your questions, we feel the following information will resolve your areas of concern and confusion:
(A) Current regulations do not require licensed collectors to record in their bound book firearms acquired prior to obtaining their license. Therefore, subsequent sales of the previously acquired firearms would require no entry in your bound book records.
(B) If, after obtaining a license, a firearm is acquired for your personal collection, it must be entered into your bound book whether or not you use your collectors' license to purchase the weapon. See 27CFR 178.125(f). Any subsequent sale would have to be entered in your bound book records.
(C) You may immediately dispose of a firearm to a lawful buyer. The length of time you retain it is immaterial. The determining factor is under what circumstances it was acquired. If the firearm was acquired to enhance your personal collection, and you decide you do not like or want it, the length of time and amount it is sold for do not matter. However, if you acquire guns for the purpose of resale, for profit, you would be engaged in a firearms dealing business and would need a dealers' license. As you are aware, the definition of a dealer is ''A person who devotes time, attention and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principle objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such a term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.'' Therefore, the purpose of the transactions would be the determining factor in whether you were dealing in firearms or merely enhancing your personal collection. The mere fact that you make a profit on the sale of a firearm from your collection would not mean you were dealing in firearms. Repeated transactions which are motivated by the desire to generate profit or income rather than enhancing your collection would indicate you were dealing in furearms, not collecting. If a collector acquires curios or relics for the purpose of sale rather than to enhance a collection, the collector should be a licensed dealer in firearms.The sole intent and purpose f the collectors' license is to enable a firearms collector to obtain a curio or relic from outside his State of residence.
(D) Disposing of personal firearms for the purpose of upgrading a collection is not engaging in a firearms business.

We trust this has been responsive to your request. If we can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Sincerely yours,
Charles Bartlett
Acting Chief
Firearms and Explosives Operations Branch



http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/4653/cnrbiz02.htm

Dr. Dickie
November 3, 2006, 07:11 AM
They contradict themselves, who would have thought!

Letter #1 Quote:"Accordingly, if you, as a licensed collector, dispose of a curio or relic firearm, the disposition also must be entered into your record book regardless of when it was obtained."

Letter #2 Quote:"(A) Current regulations do not require licensed collectors to record in their bound book firearms acquired prior to obtaining their license. Therefore, subsequent sales of the previously acquired firearms would require no entry in your bound book records. "

Great, my original question stands! Do you, or do you not need to record the sale of a C&R obtained prior to getting your license?
Guess, I will have to write the BATFE myself to get something in writing that I can have to use if I ever decide to sell something.
Or better yet, log it in regardless of what you are told (with an explination). Better to have the evidence there and say you tried, than to just blow it off and try to justify it later.

Trebor
November 3, 2006, 02:20 PM
I was told to log-out any C&R that I sold even if I acquired it before I had the licenese. In that case you'd also "log it in" at the same time. The entry could simply state "Firearm acquired before date of C&R licensensure."

Hkmp5sd
November 3, 2006, 07:18 PM
As the records are never sent to ATF, it hurts nothing to just log everything that occurs in the C&R.

I was told the same as Trebor. You do not have to log anything you owned prior to getting the C&R. After obtaining the C&R, if you sell one of your previously owned C&R firearms, you enter it in the log book and then sign it out to the new owner.

If you enjoyed reading about "C&R Question posed to the ATF" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!