SHTF questions


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silent knight
October 6, 2006, 01:26 PM
If this subjects been done before i apologize.

In case SHTF and the local govt asked you to leave your homes and head to the nearest "safe haven" and leave your guns behind, would you stay and turn your home/apt in to a fortress or go with the others and rely on them for security?

What if the scenerio gets so bad the govt cant control the situation and it's chaos in the streets, homes are being broken in to and burned, people just killing people to survive, do you stay or leave your home? Do you go with the people getting away from it or do you go your own way, if you go your own way, where would you go?

For those with children, what is the best thing to do?

If you could only travel "light" because of the kids, name some things you would REALLY NEED in a bag in case you have to go on the run other than a handgun/rifle/shotgun and some ammo. Remember, this is light but has to last about 1 week. If it was my way, i'd have a few of my buddies with us going on foot, each with a good load of goods but what if it was just you, the kids and your wife?

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Lone_Gunman
October 6, 2006, 01:34 PM
Theres about 200 yards of open land in all directions around my house. If the SHTF, roving gangs may be able to break in on me, but having to stop every few yards and dig .308 bullets out of their heads will slow them down a bit.

Black Dragon
October 6, 2006, 01:48 PM
I would turn my house into a pill box. I have enough good neighbors to be
able to do this. If that failed. I would take my family and head north to meet
up with another section of the family. At that locations, we also have a good
view of the surround land. Digging bullets out of you is a hard way to cross
~125 yards.
I'm a new father with 4 month old. The important things for the baby are
food, diapers and warm cloths. I have a B.O.B for each memeber of the
family, including the dogs and cats. It would take me 20 minutes to load up
the truck with the wife, kid, dogs, cats, B.O.B and weapons and be out the
door. Each B.O.B has cloths and equipments for about a two weeks. The
Baby's has formula for two weeks, 80 diapers, warm cloths, medince for things
like hiccups and gas, bibs, towels and footie PJ's.
The wife never thought we would need something like B.O.B until the black
out of the Northeast three years ago.

carlrodd
October 6, 2006, 01:51 PM
depends on where you are. i think i would try to get out of a city. suburbs, i think if you banded together with a few like-minded people, you could do ok, and maybe create a reputation pretty quickly for your little area so that criminals might come to know it as a 'no-go' danger area. in the country, i'd think you have no reason to go anywhere...hunt for and grow food, and get water from a stream.

justatexasboy
October 6, 2006, 02:00 PM
Me and my family would be long gone before the Gov. stepped in. If you react quickly enough to a situation and have a plan in place you will beat the exodus out of town.

Everything I plan on taking is in a locked cabinet in the garage. All we have to do is back up our vehicle and throw the stuff in. I wont be going to any Gov. safe haven. I have my own (two actually) to go to if things look like they are gonna go really crazy.

People who were in Katrina will tell you. Being prepared to leave in a matter of minutes will put you way ahead of the masses. If you hunker down and then decide to leave you will be stuck in a tangle of humanity.


Not to hijack but I would love to hear more from the Katrina folks on this. I cant help thinking that the Gov. was more interested in containing possible rioting than helping people out initially.

Thefabulousfink
October 6, 2006, 02:19 PM
Right now (as a post-college student) I am very nomadic and my "home" and much of my property hold very little value to me. Couple that with the fact that my current "home" is not well suited for a hole-up, I would bug-out. Unless I had kids who were still in the infant stage, or some one who would need regular medical attention, I would NOT go to the Gov. shelter.

I would pack what I could carry along with 1 rifle and 1 pistol for myself and the same for anyone else in my party. I would then head in the direction of the nearest safe wilderness. I would avoid roads, towns, and people unless I needed supplies or news.

I have much more faith in my ability to provide for myself out in the woods than scavenging in a city, and tons more than I have faith in the Gov to provide for me.

silent knight
October 6, 2006, 03:14 PM
Here's the thing, what would you advise a family with a toddler that lives within the city limits but on the outskirts, stay in or bug out, travel light, travel heavy? Or will it all depend on the scenario? Let me give three examples,

1) Major Disaster (Earthquake or Tsunami) - Street is chaos, no LEO on sight, your home/apt still in tact.

2) Terrorist Attack/War - Several major cities hit, do you stay or go thinking they're just warming up for the big one.

3) Biological Attack/Accident - Major plant explodes spreading hazardous chemicals in the air in the middle of the night while you're asleep, people are getting violent and turning crazy.

Example 3 is more some 28 Days later type so please have fun with that but at the same time serious, what would you do and what would you advise someone like me, would do, 3 kids, two tennagers and a toddler and my wife.

03Shadowbob
October 6, 2006, 03:37 PM
It's hard to say for me whether we'd bug out or just stay put and band together with like-minded friends. If I had 12 hours advanced warning then I'd get out of here but since I am in South Florida, even if I had 2 or 3 hours notice before everyone else, I'd still be on the road when everyone else started getting on the road up north so I'd still find myself in that predicament.
I have a 4 month old and 7 year old and the last thing I would want to do is get stuck on the highway. florida has a handful of ways north and everyone knows about them.
But if I stayed put then I figure we have plenty of water around here to drink. I have been putting my disaster kit together for a while so have plenty of food, diapers, medicine, etc..
Our little community banded together very well during the hell year of hurricanes down here. We all watched out for eachother, cooked for eachother, kids played together, etc. We were without power once for 8 days and we were fine. I think we could have gone another 3 weeks on our food/water supply.
As far as the gov't, you wouldn't catch me or my family dead in a shelter. I can guarantee that.

Thefabulousfink
October 6, 2006, 03:38 PM
Here is why I said unless the kids were infants:
Children ages 1-2 need a lot of care and are prone to disease and infection. Taking an infant on an extended trek away from civilizaiton will drasticly increase it's mortality rate. Children who are 4 years old or older require much less care, can walk on their own, can help with chores, can follow instructions, and have a much stronger immune systems. They have a much higher chance of surviving out in the wilderness. With a toddler, my advice would be to stay as close as you can to food, shelter, and medicine.

1. Major disaster: If your home is intact and not in danger (i.e. Katrina style flood or fire), I would stay there. Band with neighbors to stockpile supplies and keep a 24 hr watch for help and/or BGs. occasionally send out small parties to look for help and supplies.

2. Terrorist/War: Staying in the path of a war is not an option IMHO. Your best bet is to head out to the country and ask for shelter. Failling that, head to a refuge camp. Either option gives you better odds for survival than staying in the path of urban combat.

3. Biological/Zombie attack: GET THE HECK OUT OF DODGE! You want to be nowhere near a radiation/biohazard/gas leak, so leave as quick as you can (even with just the clothes on your back). You have a much better chance scavenging for food than you do fighting radiation poizoning. As for zombies... Movies and video games have taugh us that dense population centers become extremely hazardous durring zombie outbreaks, therefore I would get away as quickly as possible.

Manedwolf
October 6, 2006, 03:41 PM
If it's not too bad, I stay put.

If it's a fall-of-civilization all-order-gone panic evacuation, I'm about a mile from the airport that has many hangars of stored single-engine aircraft. I do know how to fly. Enough said. ;)

Geronimo45
October 6, 2006, 04:26 PM
I'd tell them to go jump in the lake. I'd find the biggest empty .gov building (preferably BATFE) and move in to the top floor.
As I've said before, I'd hire a few bodyguards and operate a brewery. When SHTF, people still need beer.
Why the BATFE office? Because the sign would say:
"Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives. 25% off sale this weekend!"
And when things calmed down, I'd take off the 25% and put "We deliver" there instead.
Would have to charge exorbitant rates for barter - and would thus be in possession of much stolen property (that's why I need a big government building - to store it all). When government returns, I turn things in, get a medal and a reward, and go back home, sell biography rights, sell film rights, and retire.
Anybody got a SHTF plan that beats that?

Edited for spelling.

mindwip
October 6, 2006, 04:31 PM
lol, solid plan there

Sry0fcr
October 6, 2006, 04:36 PM
I live in an apt so there's no attachment we leave, ASAP. If I owned my own home I might get the women and children to safety and go back to defend the fort.

MachIVshooter
October 7, 2006, 12:39 AM
Definitely stay put. Out here, we keep to ourselves but we watch each other's backs. We know who lives where, what they drive and what schedules they keep. It is not hard to pick out a person or behavior that doesn't seem quite right, and we don't depend on the county sheriff for help. Counties like the one I live in are not where bad folks go looking for trouble, because they will find more than they bargained for.

In a SHTF situation, I would not want to be a stranger out here wandering about; Suspicious eyes will be watching from behind riflescopes.

dragongoddess
October 7, 2006, 12:59 AM
I have a question for you. What is the best vehicle for a SHTF event?

MachIVshooter
October 7, 2006, 01:15 AM
I have a question for you. What is the best vehicle for a SHTF event?

M1.

But for those of us who work for a living, a reliable 4WD will have to do.

The Jeep Cherokee (sadly discontiued) is one of the most solid, reliable and capable MPV's out there in stock configuration. Also gets ~20 MPG. I don't have one, but as an auto technician I can tell you that the problems these do have tend to be trivial (window regulators, blower motor resistors, etc.). Engine, drivetrain and suspension are rock-solid half-million mile plus components if maintained. It is not uncommon for us to see 300,000 or higher and still running like a top, albeit paint faded and needing new driver seats.

My SHTF vehicle (toy) is a 1980 Dodge Powerwagon on 4" lift with 35" MTR's, both axles spooled, Winch. PT is a 440/NP-435/NP208. With chains on all four and sand bags in back, I can keep drive until the snow is halfway up the windshield.

slicknickns
October 7, 2006, 01:56 AM
depending on where i lived, but mostly i'd opt to stay put and work to fortify my home.

Robob4
October 7, 2006, 02:07 AM
I think ammo becomes the new currency. Bring lots of NATO around.

preWWWIIbuff
October 7, 2006, 02:20 AM
dragongoddess


I have a question for you. What is the best vehicle for a SHTF event?







1994 PETERBILT 320 , L-10 Engine, 280hp, Automatic, 20,000 Front Capacity, 46,000 Rear Capacity, Leach, 30YD, FRONT LOADER, $29,900.00

Its a Garbage truck with front loader my brother-in law
and I bought and ummmm fixed up real nice...not this one but one a lot like it.
I found extra fuel tank. put in/on a ac/welder 110/220
and so we can weld also. Put in extra platting soooo
water tank for street washing sure thing..
BTW it is used for his business so no garbage in the truck. Does hall off work and tree trim removals
Holds one of those nifty dipsy dumpster things for well what have you.
added trailer hitch that pulls a real nice travel all

pete f
October 7, 2006, 03:26 AM
it all depends on what the issue is,

The latest example is the chemical fire just in the news last night, are you going to stay in and say no way I aint leavin? Stay there and die from chlorine gas. there you need to have enough to leave for 48-72 hours.

THe teowawki scenario, that may be different, you have to understand the context.

DFW1911
October 7, 2006, 03:39 AM
I guess we have a plan if the SHTF. The way our houses are arranged, not to mention surrounding land, puts us in a pretty good position. We've actually talked about this, so I think that gives us *something* of a like mindset, maybe even an advantage.

As a friend of mine told me recently..."if something does happen, we're heading to your house." He's pro, but needs a bit of training. I actually took this as a compliment.

Maybe I'm deranged...but I doubt it :D

Good question.

Take care,
DFW1911

Roadkill
October 7, 2006, 10:17 AM
Staying put. Might have to go to the creek to get water but otherwise I'd be fine.

rk

Ben Shepherd
October 7, 2006, 10:23 AM
Around here, earthquake would be the most likely incident.

IF my house is OK, I'll stay put. If not, it's in the 4X4 and head out of town with the BOB using roads if they are serviceable. If they aren't-that is why I have a 4X4.

x3m
October 7, 2006, 02:20 PM
i'm in south africa where the sh*t did hit the fan and believe me it doesn't happen the way you describe it , it happens slowly and usually it's the gov. that is the problem , so you wont be doing what they say and you WILL be breaking the laws they make. go to this website and you'll have a good idea what to start preparing for , however you have a good gov. so i doubt you have anything to worry about www.crimexposouthafrica.org

Saiga39
October 7, 2006, 02:40 PM
Don't forget that after Katrina the police were confiscating firearms from those who stayed behind. I don't know if they actually went into homes and took them or if they checked on someone and happened to see them.

For me and my family it'll depend on the situation. We have some stuff stored to get us by for awhile. I'd probably keep my AK locked away unitl I knew things were really out of control and even then I don't know if I'd be visible with it outside. I'd have my CZ PCR on me concealed.

The Deer Hunter
October 7, 2006, 02:53 PM
If we were evacuated and couldnt bring firearms like during the katrina shpeel i would stay at home.

lwrnc1963
October 7, 2006, 07:22 PM
I would stay home and fort up. I live in the country in a old log house (circa 1900). When fixing it up to move in I delibertly left it able to convert back to 1800's style living in case we were snowed in without power for extended periods of time. We still have a wood stove for back-up heat to the propane heater. I also have multiple kerosene lamps in the house, some of which are hard mounted on the walls with reflectors behind them. 200 yards away on the hill behind the house on my neighber's property are 2 springs that flow year round even during drought. My neighbor allows me to ride my 2 horses on his place anytime I want since he doesn't live on his place in return for me watching over it and his cattle he sometimes run on it.
As I said I have 2 horses for if gas supllies are disrupted for extended periods. They can help me haul game which is plentiful around here or help haul firewood from the forest just 2 miles up the road. Until the gas runs out I have a mid 80's F-250 4x4 and a 92 Jeep wrangler with a lift and off road tires.
I have firearms enough to arm my family and a few others if need be and plenty of ammo for them. My best friend who lives in town would bring his family and supplies and weapons here for thier safety and to help out. With his and my experiance ( he's ex-marine, I'm ex-airforce and army and an OIF 1 vet) I think we'd make out through most SHTF scenarios.

dasmi
October 18, 2006, 05:07 PM
I'm a single guy living in a small town in southern california. Fire is the most likely scenario. A few months ago we had two fires in two weeks that threatened the town. I packed up my valuables, and took them 30 miles west to my parents' place.

Assuming some sort of civil unrest, I would probably want to leave, as my town is right off the major freeway in the area. We're pretty far out in the middle of nowhere, but people fleeing San Diego would have to drive right past, and would likely be stopping for gas or food.

If I had advanced notice, I would join up with my family, and take it from there. Probably we would secure their house. If that wasn't possible, there are a few other family members' homes we could head to.

ZeSpectre
October 18, 2006, 05:35 PM
I have a question for you. What is the best vehicle for a SHTF event?
------------

The Jeep Cherokee (sadly discontiued) is one of the most solid, reliable and capable MPV's out there in stock configuration.

AMEN to that!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/zespectre/Jeep.jpg

As for the rest, my wife and I are avid backpackers and tend to leave the packs full and ready to go. Toss in some food and the arms and we're pretty much good to go.

Add to that we both have a list of addresses to meet at should SHTF. One is north, one south, one west. That way if we're at work we don't have to worry about coming back into a trouble spot to find each other, we each head to the nearest (hopefully) safe spot and then try to contact each other. Worked VERY well on 9/11 I'll tell you that 'cause heading back into DC would have been REALLY STUPID!

Glockamolie
October 18, 2006, 06:04 PM
I'll add this in for a SHTF vehicle, as I saw it a LOT when Hurricane Rita was coming: It should be diesel powered. When the stations were bone dry with no gasoline, many still had a supply of diesel. Ideally you'd have a diesel 4X4 from the Big 3, but I bet people would have traded any gas vehicle for even a lowly VW diesel, just to have the fuel to get the hell out. That said, I think the ultimate vehicle would be a decommissioned ambulance (painted either Evil Black, or a spray-can camo). I like all things .gov surplus, from rifles to vehicles. I see the Powerstroke Ford ambulances go for super cheap when compared to a like model-year truck. It would carry a lot of stuff, get excellent mileage, have fuel availabilty, and people will generally get out of your way, unless it has turned to absolute cannibalism in the streets.

Unfortunately, it's hard to convince the wife that I need one, as it doesn't have many other uses.

Justin
October 18, 2006, 06:11 PM
This has drifted off-topic.

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