"Exotic" Shotgun ammunition


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Falcontech
October 6, 2006, 01:01 PM
Anybody have any experience with or opinions of (as if anyone here is opinionated :rolleyes: ) exotic ammunition? ie: dragons breath, armor piercing, flechette shells, etc.

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Dave McCracken
October 6, 2006, 01:20 PM
Waste of cash and time.....

Fred Fuller
October 6, 2006, 04:02 PM
If you have the money to blow on it just playing around, have fun. For any 'serious' application, fuhgedaboudit. Stick to serious ammo for serious purposes, conventional buckshot and slugs will do fine.

lpl/nc

sm
October 6, 2006, 04:20 PM
.

LAR-15
October 6, 2006, 06:41 PM
Buckshot!

And maybe some less lethal rounds like rubber buckshot or bean bag rounds for chasing off roaming dogs

tenbase
October 6, 2006, 07:19 PM
I just wanted to jump in and call the thread starter a "Pointyhead". That is all. :)

/weapons

ryan56507@msn.com
October 6, 2006, 08:41 PM
Fletchettes are illegal in every state i know of, and I dont know if it was NATO or Geneva, but i know Geneva banned them in combat. *** do you neede fletchettes for?

gezzer
October 6, 2006, 11:22 PM
Fletchettes are illegal in every state i know of

Oh ya legal in NH!!!!!!!

Ever hear of the cool factor or chicks dig them?

AnthonyRSS
October 7, 2006, 12:05 AM
I can't imagine that they would be useful, but I can imagine that they would be fun.

For fun, yeah. For serious, no.

Gordon
October 7, 2006, 12:26 AM
Well the Rio brand #12 dust shot is pretty 'exotic' for patio use .

Robob4
October 7, 2006, 12:45 AM
Flares are a great tactical choice. They can likely fry a thug if needed as well. Dragon's breath is tactically almost useless. Use it on New Year's day.

Tactically, a breaching round could help you if the thug locks you out of your own house somehow.

Anteater1717
October 7, 2006, 01:08 AM
what exactly are Fletchettes

V-fib
October 7, 2006, 01:08 AM
Of all of the following Dragons Breath would be the most fun but since itís so dangerous (can you say forest fire) it looks like Delta Force doesnít carry it anymore. Plus they average about $15 for only 3 shells.:what: Iíll pass.


12 GA. "Rhodesian Jungle"
The Rhodesian Jungle Rounds are great for in home defense! The combination of several large pellets surrounded by a mass of smaller pellets allows for double punching power to any intruder that is unlucky enough to cross its path. Make the intruder think twice with this double whammy of power. If the big pellets donít get you, the small ones will!

12 GA. "Triple Decker"
These 12 gauge shells are loaded with nine large lead balls stacked one set of three on top of another. They pack a punch EXTREMELY heavier than a standard .12 gauge and the results are both devastating and exciting to see, hear, & feel! If impact is what you want then the Triple-Decker is the .12 gauge shell youíre looking for.

12 GA. Armor Piercing
This awesome round houses enough power to penetrate the thickest car doors, commercial steel doors and most objects up to 1/4" steel plate. This slug has a steel penetrator button, boosted by a very hot charge, has an unbelievable velocity to slice through metal like a hot knife slices through butter. (Cannot be shipped to addresses from California, New York City, and surrounding boroughs.)

12 GA. Exploder
A stabilized, finned slug with a deep hollow core for loading combustible materials. The exploder round has curved finns in the rear of the slug for stability. Recent D.O.T. regulations require that the "Exploder" hollow cavity be shipped unloaded. This allows you to load the cavity yourself, safely with no tools required. Use our formula or yours. Complete instructions included. Canít be shipped to California, Florida addresses

12 GA. Flechette Shot Shells
A Flechette is a small dart shaped projectile, that is clustered in an explosive warhead, dropped in a missile from an airplane or fired from a hand held weapon. One unique application of this 1 1/2" Flechette was to load these in a 12 GA. shotgun for taking out snipers hiding in thick brush or trees. Due to the penetration of these projectiles, tree limbs and brush would not disperse the darts. Even if some were dispersed, this would still have an all-covering pattern within a tree or brush. Generally 20 darts in each. (Canít be shipped to Cal, Florida, Iowa, or NYC addresses.)

12 GA. Pepper Blast
A shot that will bring tears to your eyes. This 12 gauge shell will spread a blast of cayenne pepper directly from the barrel of your gun, disabling your target and allowing you to get away or take control of the situation. A blinding blast of Cayenne pepper can make that unwanted pest think twice.

12 GA. Terminator-X
Upon impact, this slug mushrooms and expands to nearly 2 inches, stopping the slug from totally penetrating your objective. This rapid expansion forces the dozen of tiny pellets to spread through your objective like a cancerous disease, opening an area at the impact point equal to a softball! The cavity created has the shock effect of 95%! That means only 5% of any living being could survive this kind of hit.

12 Gauge "Double Slug"
One shot, Two hits! You will double the punch, the impact and the chance of hitting your target all in one shot! The 12 Gauge round is loaded with two slugs that weigh 3/4 of an ounce each. The recoil is a little heavier than a standard 12 Gauge load and so are the resutlts! At 25 yards the two slugs will strike your target about two inches apart. At 50 yards, the strike spreads to nearly a foot apart! Unbelievable twin knock-down power!

12 Gauge "Pit Bull"
Pure Power! The Pit Bull is a powerful 12 gauge round packed with six 00-Buck pellets topped with a heavy-duty 1.3 oz. slug! Loaded extra hot for MAXIMUM stopping power! Once it bites, it wonít let go. This is the number one rated ammo for home and self defense.

Rupestris
October 7, 2006, 01:18 AM
And to think, the most exotic round I've ever sent down range was a 3" Winchester #5 tukley load... :scrutiny:

AJAX22
October 7, 2006, 02:05 AM
nastyest stuff I've seen were a few homeade loads that were filled with carpet (little U shaped ones)

another one was a guitar string coiled up inside a shotcup with little fishing weights crimped along it, I never got to see that one get fired, but I think it would have been unpleasent at about thirty feet.

sm
October 7, 2006, 02:22 AM
.

Crosshair
October 7, 2006, 04:14 AM
I have to ask. What about Bolo shells? How effective are those? Just reading the description of them makes me think that they would be an effective round. Or am I just wrong?

Kingcreek
October 7, 2006, 08:48 AM
Non-lethal Bird Bombs are the only "exotics" I have found useful.
Consider that among the choices of slugs (incl sabots), and shot of all various sizes have been proven adequate for anything that walks, runs, or flies within reasonable range.
Anything else is an expensive step in the wrong direction.

elcaminos
October 7, 2006, 02:00 PM
Ok, I have to ask about the dragon's breath, does it actually work like they claim? How loud it is?

LAR-15
October 7, 2006, 02:08 PM
Has the BATFE ever declared a shotgun round 'non sporting' in the US per the NFA?

dfariswheel
October 7, 2006, 02:38 PM
The truth about "exotic" shotgun ammo:

Flechett shotgun shells were tried in Vietnam in an attempt to increase the range of shotguns.

Short story is, they were a terrible failure.

The nail-like darts don't have enough mass to reliably penetrate, and often fail to stabilize.

The Flechetts are packed into the shell with half of them facing BACKWARD, so more can fit into the shell. Since there are small "fins" on the back, this is necessary in order to completely fill the shell.
Many of those darts fail to stabilize or to turn point forward and it's common to see darts hitting the target sideways.

Since the darts are very light, they lack mass, and many darts fail to penetrate even at when they hit point first and at close range.
Those darts that do penetrate are so needle-like that there were reports from Vietnam that enemy troops had fatal penetrations of virtually ever organ in the body but still continued to run and attack even though they were literally dead on their feet.

Due to the lack of stopping power, the failure of too many darts to hit and penetrate, or stabilize, the shotgun Flechetts were withdrawn from use.

Due to the IDEA of a load of darts hitting and killing instantly the Flechett shell has hung on as a "Hey COOL" load sold by one or two novelty ammunition companies.
These companies typically sell various deeply ridiculous loads like large lead balls joined by cord, "Dragon's Breath loads that shoot out a tongue of flame, and loads filled with various "tear gasses".
In other words nothing any serious shooter would touch.

Bottom line: The Flechett shotgun shell was a failure in actual "real world" combat and was abandoned by any serious users.
Since they lack any stopping power, and even fatally wounded opponents may stay on their feet and attacking for some time, they aren't the best idea for a self-defense shotgun.

In other words, the Flechetts MAY kill.......eventually.
"Eventually" is not something you want in your face in your living room at 3:00am.

The "Bolo" loads of large shot joined by cord almost always fail due to the cord preventing the shot from penetrating. These bolo loads are wildly inaccurate.

The "tear gas" loads do not contain enough gas to do any real good, and as far as the law is concerned, you've fired a lethal weapon at someone.
The fact that the shell contained gas makes no difference, it's still considered to be shooting someone.

All of these specialty, exotic shotgun shell loads have a number of things in common.
1. No one in their right mind would use them for any serious purpose.
2. NONE of them are as effective as standard buckshot or slugs.
3. The law considers firing a gun at someone to be lethal force.
It doesn't matter if it's a load of 00 buckshot or a load of feathers, you've SHOT at someone.
4. These specialty loads often fail. No one in their right mind bases a defense on getting MORE than ONE shot off.
Bad things happen: The gun jams, the next shell fails to fire, the attacker gets off a lucky shot, etc.
You very probably won't get more than one shot.
You better make that one shot a good one.
The idea that "I'll shot him with this less lethal or specialty load, and if that doesn't work the next one is buckshot" doesn't work in the real world.
Fire an ineffective exotic load, and you very probably won't get the second shot.

These exotic shell loads for for playing around with and impressing your friends.
Also be aware, that some very possibly may score or otherwise damage your shotgun's barrel.

To date NOTHING yet developed is as effective as standard buckshot and slug loads.

JShirley
October 7, 2006, 02:53 PM
"Just say no" to exotic shotgun ammo.

I saw a demonstration video at a gunshow of a 12 gauge firing flechettes at plywood at almost point blank range. Most of the flechettes didn't penetrate the plywood- in fact, quite a few barely penetrated into the plywood at all.

If you "had" to have a duplex load, there are turkey loads with two different shot sizes. These would be less expensive and easier to explain in court than "Rhodesian Jungle Death Fever Shotgun Rounds". ;)

John

Anteater1717
October 7, 2006, 03:24 PM
how would 6 00 buchshot surounded by 4 load not kill some effectivly though the name is pretty rediculose

sm
October 7, 2006, 04:05 PM
.

Zero_DgZ
October 7, 2006, 04:09 PM
There's a reason the only place you can buy that nonsense is at gun shows or online. There's also a reason that shot, buckshot, and slugs have been the mainstays of shotgunning for a couple of hundred years. It ain't broke, and it don't need fixing.

Waste of money, and in some cases potentially not good for your gun.

Jack2427
October 7, 2006, 10:18 PM
+++What Dfaris said about flechette rounds-and most other exoctic rounds also. There is a reason that the pros do not use any of them(with the exception of the door breaching round).
That reason is NOT the Geneva Convention, which does not address weapons at all. Nor does NATO. Many people do not realize that the prohibition of certain ammunition is not specified as ammunition of a specific type, but in the Hague Accords(early 20th century), ammunition that creates or is designed to produce unduly grevious wounds was prohibited. The ammo was not specified, but in WWI the Germans(the same guys who used mustard gas) were upset that the shotguns used by our guys in the trenches were so effective, they called them a violation of the Hague Accords, and they threatened to execute any Doughboy captured with a shotgun or shotgun ammo. The threat went away after we stated we would respond by executing a similiar number of German POWs selected at random.
This is all rather silly in this day and age when we use naplam, and other really unpleasant stuff. I would rather take a HP round any day them get doused with naplam, trust me, I have seen it. During WWII ther Russians used HP or expanding rounds for snipers, and some other uses. In fact the Germans would use captured Russian sniper weapons so they could use the ammo in return.
Today, many of our special operations units use HP or expanding ammo, and I know for a fact that many of our snipers will use it when they can get enough to sight in with.
In a number of overseas LE/security contarcts we used premium expanding ammo whenever we could get it. Of course if it was a US Government contract they told us we had to use military issue, a policy that was honored more in the breach than the observance, particularly in Bosnia and Kosovo where the opposition snipers really knew how to shoot.
In any case, stick with what has been proven to work, buck and slugs.

geim druth
October 8, 2006, 09:18 AM
How do you clean cayenne pepper out of your barrel?

dfariswheel
October 8, 2006, 02:19 PM
"How do you clean cayenne pepper out of your barrel?"

The best technique is to run a patch with a light Italian dressing with a touch of Parmesan cheese down the bore, then fire the gun into a head of iceberg lettuce.

sm
October 8, 2006, 03:01 PM
The best technique is to run a patch with a light Italian dressing with a touch of Parmesan cheese down the bore, then fire the gun into a head of iceberg lettuce.

Try the veal, dfarriswheel will be here all week...

:D

Steve

JShirley
October 8, 2006, 03:30 PM
Steve,

Around here, it's 00 buck. Usually one man per patrol carries one...but I understand it's just to use on dogs, if they charge. (Though some genius layed down two bursts from a SAW two weeks ago. Deadly dogs, the locals are. :rolleyes: )

John

ambergerftriley
February 23, 2009, 10:12 AM
please feel free to check out this video on exotic and specialty ammo.
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ambergerftriley
February 23, 2009, 10:13 AM
sorry, messed the last one up. heres the link instead. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ievbU3xIYGQ

Hungry Seagull
February 23, 2009, 10:19 AM
Dont need exotic ammo.

Buck and Ball is about as good as it gets.

The key is application of energy to the target or many small holes into a target so that target is kaput yes?

Nothing is worse than to fire a ineffective round, have BG laugh at you and take you out.

ambergerftriley
February 23, 2009, 01:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM-WD5jZN44&layer_token=d64ad5b2dc683a5d check it out. got some other vids too

50 Shooter
February 23, 2009, 02:16 PM
Dragons Breath is a joke and a camera trick, you can make it look just like the picture. Just adjust your camera so that the shutter stays open long enough to catch the whole shot.;)

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