[Stinger]

For all of you who have a CCL in Texas:

How much did the course cost? Did you learn much, or was it basically a waste of time?

Please add anything else you would like to add.

Thanks,

Stinger

[Walther P99]

I believe my entire CHL experience cost a total of around $240 - $140 for the state fee and $100 for the class itself. The class fee may vary depending on whom you chose.

I found the class to be very informative. The instructor gave a run-down of where you can carry, where cannot, proper signage for prohibiting carry, and what the penalties are for breaking the law. Overall I thought is was very good, but it does take all day (literally - from ~ 8:00am to ~ 7:00pm) which is not really a big deal. others may have different opinions.

[9x19]

The course here costs $100 for the initial class including photos and fingerprints, and 100 rounds (50 to warm up, 50 for score) of ammo (pistols available for rent if needed).

There was some good information regarding the state laws, but not much else of real value.

[Gerald McDonald]

Dont remember exactly but it probably cost around what Walther P99's was. Also pretty informative as to what law applied where. Dispute resolution was a big deal in my class along with you are under and obligation to haul ??? first and show firearm 2nd. The company I used to work for had sent me to quite a few dispute resolution classes along with a few negotiation classes. If you have ever been involved with employee or contract negotiations you already have the basic for dispute resolutions.

[alamo]

My class was $150 but that was 3 years ago. Believe most are around $100 these days. I learned very little in the class, bad instructor. I only took that particular one because it was 3 weekday nights vs. an all day session on the weekend which didn't fit into my schedule.

The range session was terrible as well. The instructor had an older man run the session (outdoor range) who was hard of hearing. Several folks hadn't finished reloading when he started several of the timed firings from various ranges. "Everyone ready!" "NO!!" "Commence firing!"

[tiberius]

In 1998 I paid about $100 in the Metroplex at a place owned by one of the Senators that sponsered the CHL bill (Conflict of interests..anyone?).

I personally don't feel like I learned anything about gun handelling, but the discussion on the law in regards to CHL and use of deadly force was informative. It was taught by a Dallas constable that was hillarious. When I renewed last year, the same guy was teaching.

[Peter M. Eick]

My wife and I took the course from a former Judge out in Midland. It was excellent. He was very very knowledgable on the laws and how it would be perceived in court and was quite helpful. He even came out and helped my wife and I on our shooting style and skills. I am happy to say she shot 49/50 and I did 50/50 (but after you shoot your qualifier you will probably say that is not saying much).

[Smoke]

I took mine in Waco.

Very good instructer but found the course a little over simplified. I had already taken some defensive training that covered most of the topics discussed in the class in a lot more detail.

Over all I'd give the course a 6 out of 10.

WE spent a half day covering the class room portion of the materail then went to qualify. I shot one mag to get my zero, then he let whomever wanted to go ahead and qualify do so.

I was out of there by 3:00pm. He spent a lot of time with the people not familier with their guns before they shot the qualifier.

I also beleive that the "passing" score on the shooting apsect is way to low. Basically you can pass before ever leaving the 7 yard line. A pretty bad shot could easily pass the test.

[Johnny Guest]

- -Involved in the Texas Concealed Handgun License qualification.

As an instructor, I need to remind prospective students that it is NOT a basic firearms training course. I vastly prefer that they already know how to shoot. The classroom training is statutorily mandated so that it can be shown that licensees have been required to show that they can safely handle a firearm, and have been at least exposed to alternative methods of dispute resolution. Everyone in the class gets the same training: Lawyers, expert pistol shots, novices.

There are short blocks of instruction about safety, gun handling, handgun types, sight alignment, and so forth. The majority has to do with the law - - What constitutes legal use of deadly force and what does not, places where even licensees cannot take their sidearms, legal liability, etc.

Mental preparedness and conflict avoidance play a big part in the training-- The more alert you are, the sooner you can see a bad situation developing, and avoid it. Or, if caught up in a conflict, the best ways to defuse the situation without violence. The key is that, just because the licensee can legally possess "a hammer," every little dispute should not be considered "a nail."

Range work is called "Proficiency Demonstration," and there is little or no actual instruction in shooting. Most of the coaching has to do with safe handling. Students fire 20 rounds at three yards, 20 at seven yards, and 10 at fifteen yards. Possible score is 250 points, and 175 is passing. Even with several shooters on the line, it only takes some 20 minutes of actual range time, and that is taking it easy.

Costs vary widely by location. I charge $60 for the class ONLY. They pay the range operator a flat $10 fee. I tell the students places where they can get their required photographs (average cost $10) and finger prints (also $10) done - -
Some other instructors offer a package deal--Instruction, range, photos, prints - - for around $100 total.

State fee for the CHL is $140 for four years. A four year renewal is $70. Low income persons may qualify for lesser fees.

Best,
Johnny

[huaco]

The course I took costs $110. We started shooting and 8am and left the class at about 7pm with our fingerprint cards and our applications filled out and checked. Some of it was informative and some was just killing time. The informative part was about the law and the various ways to carry and conceal. The police sargent who did our prints spoke from firsthand experience about what it's like to be in a gunfight and the sights, sounds, smells, and feeling of watching someone die after shooting them. He strongly encouraged us to practice and train and even said that if we could not afford ammo to practice we could come by the station and he would give us some. The conflict resolution part made some sense but was largly based on acronyms to help remember steps to follow. The two hours of film of someone drawing and firing from concealment was a bit much. The visit to the gun store that put on the class was ok because we got to fondle lots of handguns and were offered a discount but I'm not sure it was part of the required course material.

The only part of the whole thing that really bothered me was seeing them pass two people who should have been sent away to learn something about shooting and guns. While my shooting partner was shooting I noticed a target down the line with no holes in it on the three yard part. One of the helpers was showing her how to hold the gun and use the sights. When he gave the gun back to her it was very obvious that she had never held a gun before. I told my partner what was happening and to be ready to drop to the ground if I yelled duck and for the rest of the shooting whichever of us was loading kept an eye on her and the other lady that came with her who had obviously never held a gun either. Neither of them could load a magazine so the helpers did that for them. As Johnny Guest said this was supposed to be a shooting proficiency demonstration, not a "pull this and the bullet comes out here" class. I sure hope those ladies got some training later.

[Nick96]

If you already have a handgun, you should plan on spending around $300 start to finish for state fees, cost for the course and ammo. If you don't have a gun the rental fee will increase the total cost.

The value of the instruction depends a lot on the instructor. I was fortunate to have had a very good one for the initial course. Well versed in the law, practical senerios, very strict and commanding on the fireing line and entertaining (a good thing considering you will be at it a good 10 to 12 hours).

The biggest down side of the whole process is the long time it takes for the state pre course and post course criminal checks and processing. Don't recall exactly - but seems like the whole thing took about 3 months from the time I sent in the application to the time the CHL actually arrived.

Check out the Texas DPS web site (txdps.state.tx.us). There is a lot of good information there about the process, CCW laws, CCW stats, reciprosity between states, etc. And, I believe there may also be an online application process.

[Freightman]

I paid $5 for the course, it is considered as continuing adult education at the community college took two evenings and Sat morning shooting, didn't shoot but 50 rds as didn't have to take practice if you didn't want to.
There was one older lady who didn't pass the shooting, but she was shooting a 686 S&W with 357 full house loads she was in the 75+ age class wish she could have used less of a gun but she insisted on it. The instructor tried to get her to use her pardners gun but to no avail.
Yes I thought that the course was informative and worth the time, did I learn antthing I didn't know? no I had read through the book before the class. Do I think everyone should take it? Yes
Some people haven't got a familiarity with firearms and the law, might keep someone from making a mistake and keep them out of jail.

[Dobe]

My wife will be driving through Texas next week. What are the laws considering transport, i.e. loaded handgun.

[tiberius]

Dobe,

You can carry while travelling. Below is the excerpt that I took from http://www.packing.org/, which is a great resource for this type of info.




There is a "traveling" exemption in the law for non-CHL holders -- it is no longer a "defense to prosecution", but instead renders the prohibition "not applicable" (see PC 46.15 of the Penal Code) However, "traveling" is still defined by case law, and varies between jurisdictions. The alleged rule about "crossing two county lines" is case law, and not binding. I wouldn't advise anyone to depend on it.

Summary:

Basically, you have to be directly in route between two distant points. It also must be a "non-routine" trip -- commuting to work doesn't count. Someone from out of state would almost certainly be traveling, but only while actually in transit. Once you get to your destination in Texas, you can't carry it around in your car and claim to be traveling -- at least not until you embark on your return trip home.

Also, this prohibition only applies to handguns. Long guns are not prohibited by this law, although there are some municipalities that have enacted local regulations (which are in violation of state law, but that's another matter).

[Dobe]

Thanks Tiberius,
I am assuming that she can carry loaded in the car, with handgun under the seat while driving in and out of state?

[tiberius]

Dobe,

It's inapropriate for me to be a legal advisor:) , but yes that is what is geneally accepted to be true.

http://www.packing.org/

and

http://www.nra.org/

Are teh best sources for more "official" information.

[tiberius]

Dobe,

I forgot another important issue. The carrying of long guns is unregulated in Texas (provided you don't brandish them in such a way as to cause a disturbance :)) so it is also pratical to carry a short shotgun or carbine in your vehicle for protection without any sort of licensing issues.

Something like a coach gun would be ideal for your vehicle in Texas if you do not have a CHL for TX or a cooperative state.

[voilsb]

holy crap, ccw in texas is expensive. in OR the fee is $65 for first-timers (4-yr "permit"). this fee includes photos and prints.

the course? well, I have this piece of paper saying I qualified "Expert" on the M9, so the course requirement was waived.

and you know what? I thought it was overpriced here, too. vermont gets it right, though ...

[Dobe]

Thanks Tiberius. I was only looking for guidelines. If I get busted and taken to jail, I promise not to mention your name...unless you think it would help ;)

[tiberius]

Thanks Tiberius. I was only looking for guidelines. If I get busted and taken to jail, I promise not to mention your name...unless you think it would help LOL :D


Seriously, I'm not worried about me, I just don't want anyone taking a risk based on what could be my misinterpretation of the law. So many laws are written intentionally vague so that the prosecutors can be selective in who they prosecute. I'm sure you won't have any problems, most Texas LEOs seem to be alright.

[JohnKSa]

As with any state, some locales are more strict than others.

Don't get caught with a pistol by the Dallas Police unless you have a CHL. They'll make your life as miserable as they possibly can.

Either a compact carbine (the folding Kel-Tec) comes to mind, or a pistol grip shotgun is a good choice. You'll be pretty much untouchable.

BTW, if you're going to carry a pistol without a CHL, carry loaded. Texas law makes no distinction between loaded vs unloaded.

Also, the travelling provision does NOT apply strictly except travelling directly between overnite stays. In other words, you can't put one under your seat and drive to San Antonio, then leave it there while you conduct business & drive around for a week.

The two county line thing is often quoted, but not something I would bet on.

Upon arrival, you must remove the gun to your new "residence" (which may be a friend's house or a hotel room) and may not remove it until you are once again about to travel.

Also, if your wife makes the trip daily (lets say y'all live in OK near the border, and work in TX) then the travelling provision does not apply. You may not regularly carry a handgun while driving to/from work, regardless of the distance covered. You MAY transport a firearm from your home to your workplace on occasion. I suppose if you get caught you could always say that you don't do this as a matter of course, but were transporting the pistol to work to be left at your workplace so you would have protection there. You can legally carry in your workplace if you have permission from the property owner since you are on private property.

BTW, TX does accept permits issued in OK and maybe LA & AR. Check the DPS website.

[Greybeard]

Another insructor here. As noted, timing, pricing and content can vary greatly. Unlike some, I decline to attempt to train and certify novices in just the minimum 10-hour course. Several options, many details and links are available at www.dentoncountysports.com.

FWIW, DPS (new) instructor skul is now just once a year - the first week in August and costs just $100. It "qualifies" instructors to pay the same fees as everyone else for the 4-year license. ;) One-day renewal skuls required every two years - for another $100. ' Got that recertification to get done again for the 4'th time this summer. (Depending upon what the Legislature does in the next week or so, I hope DPS has to redo THEIR posture regarding reciprocity and 30.06 signage in public buildings!)

[mec]

The fluidity of the licenseing/renewal process varies depending on how busy the DPs staff might be at a given time. They are allow 60 days to process the license but can by another 60 days or more by rejecting fingerprint cards. At one point, the license would be ready to issue upon receipt of the second set of prints but a recent student was delayed a full 120 days after a print rejection.

The process may be come more tedious and prone to delays if the legislature partially defunds the chl program. It is supposed to be self supporting but there has been talk of taking away some funding.

Reciprocity now covers about 7 states and a number other states recognize the Texas license without reciprocity.

The number of active licenses climbed steadily until the last several months when license declined a bit. As of May 1 2003, the number has reached an all-time high of 226,100+ and there are currently about 1500 licensed instructors.
One piece of pending legislation would reduce initial fees to $110 and possibly have some effect on renewal fees for seniors and others. The pet legislation this year would prohibit government entities from posting government buildings (city and state) against chl holders. We may not know how this turns out for a few weeks as the Legislature has been been acting in a partiicularly insane manner this year.

[tiberius]

We may not know how this turns out for a few weeks as the Legislature has been been acting in a partiicularly insane manner this year.

This is definitely the UNDERSTATEMENT of the year:D

[Freightman]

Yes! The Democrats ran off to Oklahoma!

[El Tejon]

From Greybeard's keyboard to Austin's ears!:)