What do you say to the stubborn people?


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another person
October 6, 2006, 02:10 PM
I was watching that video of Michael Moore a while ago that featured him harrassing the NRA president. He was asking him questions like why do you need guns, and stuff like that. Then after some school shooting he went to K-mart or whatever store it was and tried to get them to stop selling the caliber of ammo that was used in the crime. The sad part is they actually did it, although I think they did to stop him from annoying them.

My point isnt that Moore is a jackass, even though he is, but the point of this thread is to learn what you guys do when you meet someone who strongly believes that guns should be banned.

One of my friends thinks civilians should only be allowed to own handguns, because "they are effective enough to protect yourself." Another person I know but who I dont like is very "motivated." I was going to say smart but school grades dont mean youre smart, they only show how motivated you are to learn and do work. He was not smart common sense wise. We were talking about guns then he says "if guns were banend then there would be no crime." I really dont have patience for these people but we got in an arguement and I ended up saying some pretty mean stuff to him. (I get mad easily.) I have noting against jews at all but what I said is: "If your ancestors had guns they would not have died horrible deaths." Its the truth though. People are so uneducated that they fail to look at the past and see the bad stuff that could have been prevented and they fail to look at present day events such as England banning guns, and the increased crime rate there.

Even with all of these facts I tell people, they still think "assault rifles" like my SKS should be banned because "theres no need for a bayonet."

Just was wondering what you guys say to people who say these things to you.

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mindwip
October 6, 2006, 02:15 PM
Say nothing, there point is too extreme and i dout they would even hear the answers to the question they asked, let alone listen to them

Dmack_901
October 6, 2006, 02:17 PM
I don't argue with them about guns.

If their beliefs are held so deeply, it would take too much of my time and effort to demonstrate that they are wrong. Then if I was able to change them, the foundation of their beliefs would be shook heavily, and we'd never get along again.

If they know I own guns, great. If they ask a question, I'll answer it. Hopefully through simply knowing me, seeing that I'm a rational person, and possibly if they are interested going to the range they'll come to their own conclusion. All that most people need is a little exposure.

rbernie
October 6, 2006, 02:17 PM
what you guys do when you meet someone who strongly believes that guns should be banned. Ignore them, and spend my energies on those whose minds are a bit more, ah, mature.

another person
October 6, 2006, 02:18 PM
But it doesnt bother you that some of these people could get older and become legislatures?

Biker
October 6, 2006, 02:19 PM
To be honest, I say "To hell with ya." Some people's ideas are carved in stone and facts only make them mad.
Don't much matter to me.

Biker

tellner
October 6, 2006, 03:49 PM
"Say unto them 'You have your way, and we have ours.' "

Manedwolf
October 6, 2006, 03:58 PM
If someone is that stubborn, a good answer is always "If something bad happens and the police can't come, don't you dare call me."

mindwip
October 6, 2006, 04:06 PM
But it doesnt bother you that some of these people could get older and become legislatures

Bother? yes
Not much you can do about it.

I bet it bothers them that a NRA person could be a legislature too


So is life

mindwip
October 6, 2006, 04:09 PM
I have a friend where we have the same views on everything, except guns, so when we talk politicks (i know its spelled wrong) we dont talk about guns.

iiibdsiil
October 6, 2006, 04:20 PM
I usually go:

BOOM!

That was your front door being kicked in by some meth head. Dial 911, wait the 3-7 minutes for them to arrive, another 2 or 3 for them to figure out what is going on and start sweeping the house.

Who's going to explain to the kids that mommy and daddy are dead because they had no means of protecting themselves?

Then, when I get the "That won't ever happen... yada yada yada" I usually go "Well, you are free to live your life that way, and I'm free to live my life being prepared."

Kinda insulting them without it hitting them right away. :neener:

Declaration Day
October 6, 2006, 04:47 PM
I take one of the follwing courses of action, if I believe that the anti-gun person cannot be persuaded to see the light.

1) If the person's argument is emotional, such as "I feel guns should be banned because it makes me sad when children die and it's worth it if it saves just ONE life......." I simply say "Your argument is emotional, not rational, and since there's really no argument against your right to feel a certain way, I guess this conversation is over."

2) If the person's argument is non-emotional, but based on false or biased information, I say "I'm sorry, but you're debating a topic with which you have no experience, using inaccurate information. Do your homework and get back to me."

For some reason, they never do.

RNB65
October 6, 2006, 04:54 PM
I don't argue with people about guns. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But I usually invite them to go shooting with me. If they go, it just might change their minds.

scottgun
October 6, 2006, 04:54 PM
I stick my nose up in the air, call the person a liberal using a haughty accent and then finish off with a dismissive giggle.

Huddog
October 6, 2006, 05:02 PM
With me it depends on the person. Most people who spout statistics just use the ones they want to validate their position. The best way to deal with them is to be knowledgable enough to counter with statistics and studies showing your side. I learned long ago in a poly sci class it is not acceptable to say "studies show" or the "recent survey says", so I usually start by questioning "what study?" or "which survey?" to which they normally cannot reply bc they are just parroting something they heard on tv or other media sources.

If a belief has no statistical or reasonable basis but exists on feelings it does no good to try to bring those people to the reasonableness or constitutionality of the issue as they are relying on their beliefs and won't change them until something dramatic occurs which causes a review of the belief.

Truthfully though in my circle, since I don't make a big deal about owning weapons, it is rarely discussed unless I see the opportunity to take someone to the range.

sfhogman
October 6, 2006, 05:29 PM
I don't argue, that's for sure. If it's a person that I know and respect, I offer to take them shooting. I always tell them I'll pick up the range fees and they're welcome to shoot "my .22 target pistol". I promise them a lot of fun.

Then I change the subject and let things percolate. This seems to work about 50% of the time. Even if they don't become gunnies, it moves them way off their original position, because they I make sure they genuinely do have fun.

Jeff

James T Thomas
October 6, 2006, 05:31 PM
I do not consider them as stubborn, but rather blinded by their own self pride.
They have great and swelled egos, which will not permit them to consider that others may be correct.

There will be no way that you will be able to bring them to the light of day either, since you will find that they cannot; for their own preservation, accept logic.

Now, many of them are young; idealistic, and with maturity they will come to the truth, however, the older ones may be compared to the people here in the colonies during the time of the American Revolution.

I'm referring to those who remained "loyal" to the Crown. Despite the oppression, injustice, and tyranny of the English crown and such.
A prime example would be the forced quartering of English soldiers in our homes, the selection of judges not from amoung our people, etc.

And despite that and worse offenses, over many years without remedy, or
even adressing of these crimes against our people, we had these "Torries" continue to support King George!

'So, we have those living amoung us who would disarm us, open our borders, accept staggering tax burdens, submit to absolutely corrupt government, and all the while, unfailingly vote time after time to keep such destructive and lying, treacherous leaders in office over us all.

They live amoung us, have always been here, and will continue to replenish themselves by the treachery and plots they know only so well.

Thank God (only for those who scientifically analyze that He exists) -there, I've said it. -For the U.S. Constitution and our Creator who has made all men equal and with inalienable rights.

Eternal vigilance!

grampster
October 6, 2006, 05:44 PM
Tell them that doctors and hospitals are responsible for more accidental deaths in a year than firearms cause accidentaly and on purpose. Do they want to ban doctors and hospitals?

If someone is breaking into their home in the middle of the night, do they think they'll be safe waiting 10 minutes or longer for the police to arrive. Have them sit in a chair quietly for 10 minutes to get a grasp of how long 10 minutes is.

Offer to take them shooting at a range if one is available.

Eleven Mike
October 6, 2006, 05:48 PM
But it doesnt bother you that some of these people could get older and become legislatures?It would indeed be very disturbing if one person were an entire legislature. I think you meant legislator.

MatthewVanitas
October 6, 2006, 07:23 PM
Here's my technique:

"You really need to step beyond your prejudices and expand your horizons. It's no good to go through life closed to new ideas and experiences. A mind is like a parachute: it only works when it's open."


You have to put things in the _other_ person's terms, not yours.

-MV

Standing Wolf
October 6, 2006, 11:08 PM
I don't try to teach my cat to whistle, either.

sm
October 6, 2006, 11:30 PM
I suggest you ladies flip a coin to see who gets raped first and while the other keeps attempting to get 911 on the line.

I actually said this to known anti-gunners and walked off refusing to walk them to their vehicle after a play.

Sorry dude, sounds like personal problem to me.

I actually said to another much younger anti-gunner, that was robbed and hit numerous times with a broom-stick handle.

Here is a box of tissues and you can toss your cookies in this waste can.

I was being professional and showing compassion when I let a sister see the wounds of the other sister, a victim of being raped, and knifed. Neither of the ladies really cared about guns, carried cell phones and thought "it will never happen to us" .

I got you

I caught someone fainting...

Again being professional, I had taken a family member into a OR suite to see the deceased family member. We would be doing an organ harvest in the wee hours later on.

Family was sitting on the fence in regard to CCW and all. Victim worked in a NO CCW bldg as Regulated. So even if they had CCW they could not in the bldg. Victim , became a victim, running errands after work.

One has to get to and from No CCW zones. Criminals know this, many CCW understand this, Fence sitters and antis do not always think about this.

moewadle
October 7, 2006, 03:19 AM
and some of the others said it best.....In so many words their opinion is....don't even argue, don't try to persuade, just let it go. There is not any point in trying to change a person's mind. As an example...You know, my wife's and my political beliefs are very distant from that of her sister and brother-in-law. So, my wife and I have a policy of not talking politics or religion with them. I have even told my sister-in-law and her husband that once when they wanted to talk politics. I just refused to discuss that subject with them. This is the same way the subject of guns and gun ownership should be approached. Just don't discuss it. Walk through life with peace and serenity in your heart. Do not get angry about it. Do not engage in controversy to such an extent that it upsets your inner peace and balance. As Standing Wolf said...he does not try to teach his cat to whistle. So much wisdom in so few words. LISTEN TO HIM

carpettbaggerr
October 7, 2006, 03:39 AM
We were talking about guns then he says "if guns were banend then there would be no crime." Punch him in the mouth. See if his opinion changes. :)

Baba Louie
October 7, 2006, 05:49 AM
"...if guns were banned, there would be no crime." Like Washington DC, right? Guns are banned. Crime is banned. Criminals are defined as those who... disobey the law, and Criminals will obey which of those two laws?

No need to allow their attitude and ignorance get you mad. Calmly Smile at them, instead. You know that life can be a dangerous place to live and that you are better prepared for some happenings than they. If they choose to ignore that fact, so be it.

Always remember this little latin quote... "Si vis pacem para bellum." ("If you seek peace, prepare for war.")

Dr. Dickie
October 7, 2006, 06:01 AM
Try this if you like, I use it. When they say something like getting rid of guns will get rid of crime:

"I understand your ignorance given the misinformation that you get from the media and the anti-gun people. The simplistic answer would seem to be that banning weapons would reduce crime; however, the evidence suggests otherwise, and history screams that the opposite is true. Reality is not presuaded by belief. If you wish to have a meaningful opinion on the subject, then I suggest that you do some homework."

I rarely get a response back, and maybe, just maybe someones belief system is nudged onto a new track. If you would like to give them some suggestions of reading material or web sites to visit, fine. I do not feel that is necessary as, if they are serious and not simply looking to support an already held belief, they will find the information; if they are not, sticking their noses in it will likey not change their minds.

If they are about ownership of weapons, then state how sad it makes you that people could be rasied in the United States of America, and have no idea about how, why, and who formed this country.

mindwip
October 7, 2006, 06:28 PM
f they are about ownership of weapons, then state how sad it makes you that people could be rasied in the United States of America, and have no idea about how, why, and who formed this country.



Yeah but antis will just say those where different times different poeple, where not the same anymore. And a history book is all you need:barf: . that was someone comment to me after i said something to that effect. You cant win:(

moewadle
October 7, 2006, 09:01 PM
right about what the reply will be. I ask you to think about what I wrote previously in this thread and I will add this thought, THE ONLY PERSON YOU CAN CHANGE IS YOURSELF. Beating your head against the proverbial brick wall trying to change someone else will only rob you of inner peace. There are 6 billion people or more on this planet. Not all of them will think as you do. Learn to live with that reality in peace and serenity. Go to the range and punch targets or make tin cans bounce with your auto loader or whatever. That might help some.:banghead:

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