Want an AK


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another person
October 6, 2006, 02:26 PM
I have an SKS and now I want a WASR-10.

If I ordered it from my dealer would it come packed in cosmoline? I hate the stuff, its so hard to get out of the wood. Whenever I handle my SKS my hands always smell like cosmo afterwards. I would rather have an SKS with cosmo on it than no have one at all, but back to the point.

1. Can I get a new one that doesnt have cosmo on it?
2. Should I buy an AK online or from my dealer?
3. For a price in the mid $300s whats the best country of origin?

Im not sure if i want to build one because I have skimmed an guide and I dont have most of the tools required.

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MTMilitiaman
October 6, 2006, 02:42 PM
A WASR-10 is, specifically, a Romanian stamped receiver semi-automatic Kalashnikov clone. An AK clone by any other name is not a WASR-10. The Romanian AKs, and more specifically, the WASR, is generally regarded to be at the bottom of the heap in terms of quality, fit, and finish among AK rifles, but it is nevertheless the best you're probably going to be able to find for $300, and thankfully, most of them are decent rifles, even if they are rough around the edges.

Yes, the rifle will more than likely be packed in cosmoline. Clean it out best you can, then replace the furniture. The furniture that comes with it won't do you any favors. Save up for a stock of your choice, be under-folding, side-folding, ACE varient, or fixed in wood or synthetic of any of two different lengths (standard or longer NATO) and several colors (OD, black, plum, ect.). Get the good matching handgaurd. If you buy synthetic, make sure the handguard has a heat shield. Check out places like KVAR to make sure you get a good set. TAPCO is hit or miss in quality. You won't find anything bad from Tantal or KVAR, and Doug in particular at Tantal is an outstanding guy to do business with. After furniture, you may end up wanting to replace the trigger and/or sights as well, but that is no big deal. With new trigger, sights, furniture, and a couple more mags, figure $200 to $250 to the original cost of the rifle, invested over time, and you have a really decent rifle that will do most of what anyone will ever ask of it.

Thin Black Line
October 6, 2006, 02:48 PM
Notice how the earlier (Clinton era) Romanian thumbhole hi-caps were a
whole helluva lot nicer than the rough boat oars that are coming in now?

MechAg94
October 6, 2006, 03:16 PM
I would recommend picking out a rifle in person if you can to minimize issues with mag wobble or canted front sight.

MAUSER88
October 6, 2006, 03:21 PM
Sorry but I wouldn't own a WASR. The inside of the mag well has plates welded in for mag. stability. Look for a SAR series, they are the only true military AK receiver on the market.

gcerbone
October 6, 2006, 03:23 PM
I'd steer clear of the WASRs. You can spend a little bit more for a much better quality rifle. And once you replace the stock, etc, you are better off buying quality up front.

Check out http://www.atlanticfirearms.com. They have some good items.

aka108
October 6, 2006, 03:32 PM
Guess if I was planning on spending no more than 300 bucks the Saiga would be where my money would go. (Semi sportorized AK made in Russia). Rather than upgrading one of the Romanians, save a few more dollars and get a AK from Vector Arms or save a few more bucks and buy an Arsenal, Inc. out of Las Vegas AK's. They are the best. A little over 600.

MTMilitiaman
October 6, 2006, 03:36 PM
Sorry but I wouldn't own a WASR. The inside of the mag well has plates welded in for mag. stability. Look for a SAR series, they are the only true military AK receiver on the market.

You mean besides the Saigas and Bulgarians?

Yes, you can steer clear of the WASR and spend more to buy your quality up front. That is true. And it might be the smart move for some. But if all you got is $300 or so and you want to get your rifle, the WASR is about the only game in town. And if what you really want is just a decent rifle on which to learn the platform, the WASR is an excellent way to get started on the Kalashnikov. It is rough around the edges, it won't win any awards, even by AK standards, for fit or finish, but most of them are still adequately accurate and absolutely reliable, and still offer a good deal of rifle for the money. I bought one in Aug of 2004 just so I had something "scary" in case the AWB didn't sunset. I have since replaced just about everything but the original receiver, barrel, and bolt carrier group. I've installed new front and rear sights, a new fire control group, a new pistol grip, a new buttstock, and new handguards. Along the way I've learned the set screw threading adaptors are pretty much worthless, as is the TAPCO Galil style folding stock. Sorry if it looks good to you. It is crap. Straight up. Crap. But I was pleasently surprised by the quality of the TAPCO G2 FCG. The Mojo is decent, but tends to lose its elevation settings if something is leaned against it, so I wouldn't recommend it as a battle sight. The TDI synthetic handguards are awesome. I really like the forward vertical foregrip as well. And the ACE folders are rock solid, high quality units, but should really, really come with installation instructions. Mine didn't. I've learned a lot messing around with my WASR. I know what works and doesn't work for me, what I like about the Kalashnikov, and what I don't like. I feel like the WASR has made me better understand how the rifle works on a nearly fundemental, or elemental, level, and feel like I could almost build one from scratch. My next AK will be a higher quality unit from Arsenal or Saiga, or even Krebs, because now I feel like I am better prepared to discern what I want and expect from the rifle, and better able to appreciate it for its quality.

clange
October 6, 2006, 03:46 PM
besides the Saigas and Bulgarians?
They're very close, but the SAR-1 is stamped exactly like the romanian service rifles, including the Y stamp for the auto sear pin hole.

Saigas come with dimples now IIRC, so they'd be very close to russian AKs, and bulgarian stamped rifles are made damn near the same as their real counterparts.

But, the SAR-1 receiver is exactly the same as the military version so its the closest. Another exact one would by a Y stamped maadi (russian AKM tooling).

Jim Gross
October 6, 2006, 03:48 PM
MTMilitiaman Said it right. I got a wasr-10 a year ago and have been completly happy with it. I have learned a lot about the AK by messing with it but it is still utterly reliable and a great plinker. So if your budget will only cover $300 then the wasr is a good starting point. Keep an eye on the pawn shops too I got a norinco mak-90 for $200 so there are still bargins to be had.

Thin Black Line
October 6, 2006, 04:19 PM
There have been some Yugo underfolders for sale recently at $500 that
have the new (but not chrome-lined) barrels. These have been accurate
and have the RPK style receivers. The chrome is only an issue if you plan
on shooting left over chicom and east german ammo. No problem with
wolf.

Yes, Arsenal at $700+ is hefty for some, but with the milled receiver it is the
best of the AKs.

invisibleman_007
October 6, 2006, 04:21 PM
We purchased a couple single stack WASR-10s right around the end of the AWB for $180 otd. Now, after a little magwell expansion, they're just like the doubles. Aside from the known issues like the canted sights on some, they're actually a pretty good bargain. No, not as nice or accurate as some others, but they cost less than half as much as the nice ones, and for a savings of $100 over the double stacks, all it took was about 15 minutes of minor surgery with a dremel. Function has been perfect, no dreaded trigger slap, and the wood stocks are perfectly serviceable. I do recommend picking them out in person though, as it will allow you to choose the ones with straight sights, better fit/furniture, etc.

Don't Tread On Me
October 6, 2006, 05:52 PM
I don't know what the obsession with milled receivers is. They aren't better. If anything, they're just heavier.

another person
October 6, 2006, 06:10 PM
Today at the shop I saw a few SAR-1s and a Vector. The Vector looked to be much higher quality than the rest of the display modes. I forgot to check the price on that one.

Spencer
October 6, 2006, 06:17 PM
I don't know what the obsession with milled receivers is. They aren't better. If anything, they're just heavier.

IMO, they feel better and look better. And not that its that much of an issue, but they are more durable than stamped models. Another thing about the milled receivers is that they are generally higher quality made than the stamped AKs. Since, the Chinese clones are often stamped and the Bulgarian/Russian brands are more often milled.

MatthewVanitas
October 6, 2006, 06:53 PM
www.classicarms.us is out of the $279 Romanian AKs, but they have Saiga 7.62x39mm carbines on closeout for $229.

-MV

Prince Yamato
October 6, 2006, 07:04 PM
The main difference between AKs is Milled vs. Stamped receiver. You'll be getting stamped for what you want to pay. I've fired WASR-10s. They're fine. Check to make sure the front sight isn't canted. If you're willing to buy used, you could probably get a used post ban Maadi or Yugo for under $450. It doesn't have a threaded barrel or bayonet lug, but you can get a pin-on flash suppressor and as for the bayonet... who really cares. If you are willing to pay up to $600, you can get a Vepr, which is a damn fine rifle. Based on the RPK light machinegun. But for $300 a Romak is fine. I mean cripes, people build AKs in the 3rd World and they work fine.

salvador31c
October 6, 2006, 08:46 PM
AHH Yes This takes me to the time i went from a SKS to A WASR-10 I Gota Say the main thing i liked better about the AK-47 was its reputation kinda like the energizer bunny keeps going and going and its a bad Ass in DA Hood :neener: . The Hi Cap Mag was nice but i could get better shots with SKS I Bought mine new for about 350 in feburaury From J&G sales wasn't soked in cosmo, looked nice and the freinds loved it i put mabey 400rds through it and sold it last month because i really want a Bushmaster AR

PAC 762
October 7, 2006, 12:08 AM
...Romanian AKs, and more specifically, the WASR, is generally regarded to be at the bottom of the heap in terms of quality, fit, and finish among AK rifles,...

Romanians are not bad. WASR's are bad... SAR's are much better .... actual Romanian military rifles are actually pretty decent.

As for the original question, I would suggest posting on gunco.net, akfiles, and ar15.com to find a builder in your area willing to help. Then buy the parts kit or your choice, a receiver, and the necessary US compliance parts and build it yourself. You will end up with a high-quality rifle of exactly the configuration you want, and have intimate knowledge of how it is built and how it works.

Otherwise, but a Saiga and convert it to standard AK configuration.

CornCod
October 7, 2006, 12:03 PM
Must disagree most respectfully with his Highness Prince Yamato, Honorable Highness must have been informed by enemies of the emperor that used post-ban Maadi can be had for $450. Much higher sire!

Respectfully,


Charlie Chan
Inspector
Honolulu Police Department

Saiga39
October 7, 2006, 12:47 PM
I have a Saiga that I had converted. Atllantic Firearms looks like they are converting Saiga's and selling them for $ 589 with a 5 year warranty, which I think is a pretty good deal.

Here's the link:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=270

>SHOCK<^>WAVE<
October 7, 2006, 12:49 PM
I remember reading and article where Mikhail Kalashnikov said
he prefers stamped over the old time milled design.

AK103K
October 7, 2006, 07:30 PM
I would recommend picking out a rifle in person if you can to minimize issues with mag wobble or canted front sight.
I agree, its best to check any of them out before you buy.

If the mags fit OK, the WASR is a decent AK. Just because your spending more money doesnt mean you going to get a better gun. It might be prettier, but not necessary better.

If you feel the need to put a folder on it, go with the Romanian side folder. If you really like the looks of the under folders, I really suggest you try one first before you buy. Underfolders require a different receiver and can not be easily changed, or changed back. The Romanian folders are the correct length, are rock solid, open or closed, and allow access to all the controls when folded. Its not an aftermarket stock either, its issue. It will work with the stamped receiver guns by just removing the standard stock and replacing it with the wire stock. The rifle will shoulder and shoot just like a standard stocked gun.

Unless you really feel like tinkering, I wouldnt start swapping everything out right off. You will probably find its fine as it comes. Mine did not come covered in cosmoline, but it was oily. A little time with some Gun Scrubber and it cleaned right up.

The milled are no better or worse than the stamped. The Russians only tried the milled for a short while and never went back. They are heavier and have a different stock angle and require a stock made for them specifically.

Prince Yamato
October 7, 2006, 09:24 PM
Must disagree most respectfully with his Highness Prince Yamato, Honorable Highness must have been informed by enemies of the emperor that used post-ban Maadi can be had for $450. Much higher sire!

Alla totura! Si voglio la testa del ambasciatrico! I guess the prices on Maadis have climbed. I got mine for $400 a year ago... Hien Wang is most displeased with this increase in prices...

RecoilRob
October 7, 2006, 09:55 PM
I have a pristine milled Legend Polytech and wanted something non-valuable that I could blast with and have fun. Enter the WASR-10.

Yes, it DOES have a finish on it that a horse-shoe would laugh at. No bother, it shoots...and shoots well. Totally reliable and, actually, pretty accurate with the POSP scope hanging off the side rail.

Also must comment on the TAPCO parts it had installed when purchased.
G2 trigger group: Keeper! Light, crisp, no slap.

Galil forend: Not bad but loose fore and aft...needed some epoxy filler to tighten it up. Great when the barrel is hot enough to smoke the stock wood parts.

SAW grip: Keeper! Nice, hand filling design with storage compartment. Increases reach to trigger which, on the AK, is good.

Galil folder: Not exactly "crap" as stated by MTM but I CAN see why he feels that way. Flexible and unstable when firing for sure. Most of the problem is in the hinge pin...which is plastic and seems to be very flexible. Am in the process of swapping it out for a steel pin which will tighten up the stock a bunch. Maybe not enough to make it perfect, but certainly better than it is.

Anyhow, don't discount the WASR-10 as a viable (if ugly) AK variant. Good ones are reliable, beatable and rapid-fire heatable. Smoke-em up!

Don't Tread On Me
October 7, 2006, 09:58 PM
And not that its that much of an issue, but they are more durable than stamped models.

I thought the exact opposite was true. I thought that Kalashnikov himself said that the milled can develop cracks after tens of thousands of rounds, where the stamped does not.

Not that it's a practical difference, I believe this was in reference to torture testing of rifles literally over 50,000rds.

Raph84
October 8, 2006, 04:01 AM
Not to hijack this thread, but I noticed at the atlantic firearms site they are selling the armory usa/global trades 1.6mm recievers rifles for $569 are these really better than the standard 1mm?

I really want an AK with an old school look and this (http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=188) looks like a good option. Then again the milled arsenal sam7 is only $180 more for a milled reciever. Any thoughts?

possum
October 8, 2006, 04:12 AM
1. Can I get a new one that doesnt have cosmo on it?
2. Should I buy an AK online or from my dealer?
3. For a price in the mid $300s whats the best country of origin?


1) yes, bought my mak and didn't have a lick of cosmo on it, all the wasr's and other ak's that I have handled didn't seem to have any on them.
2) i personally like to inspect things myself before i buy them, so i always buy at a gun show, or at a dealer so that way i can see exactly what i am getting, that way it is no ones fault but mine if something ain't right. that's just personal preference.
3)i have a mak 90 and my wife bought it for me for x-mas two years ago, and she paid $300 plus tax. it was not brand new by no means but it was in good condition and to this day shoots great. i would also suggest against the wasr's, if you want to stay on the low end than get a romanian sar, i think these are fine examples of ak's for the money that is, pay a little more but i think you will alot more happy. my dealer back in n.c. sels them all the time, in great shape for $300 plus tax and a little less to me.(good friend). good luck and let us know what you get.

AK103K
October 8, 2006, 10:07 AM
Not to hijack this thread, but I noticed at the atlantic firearms site they are selling the armory usa/global trades 1.6mm recievers rifles for $569 are these really better than the standard 1mm?
I have a Global Trades SSR-85C built on a Polish AK kit. I paid $550 for it about 6 or 7 years ago. While it is my prettiest AK, with a beautiful parkerized finish and nice blonde wood, its accuracy is only so so and it had some reliability issues with the factory installed buffer and a broken disconnector. (dont bother with the buffers, they are a waste, unnecessary, and tend to cause problems)

I had to put a windage adjustable RPK rear sight on it due to the front sight being maxed out to the left when close to zero. Its a personal thing with me, but I like the front post in the center, or at least pretty close to center.

While the furniture is pretty, the stock isnt the correct length, its just a tad long, and it doesnt have a trap door in it for the cleaning kit.

For the extra money, it would be nice if they used better trigger group parts. Hopefully, they have also figured out the barrel timing thing. I'm suspecting its also the reason for it not being as accurate as some of my other AK's. I dont know how many are out there, I really havent seen to many people post about them, so I dont know if I just got one thats a little off or if this is what to expect from them.

another person
October 9, 2006, 12:57 AM
My dealer said that they are Romanian AKs which are going for $400. Im guessing that it can be a Romanian without being a WASR? He did say that they had cosmo on them though.

Finch
October 9, 2006, 04:33 AM
Maybe I am just lucky, but my WASR is great. I have yet to have a problem with it. Didn't come covered in gun goo, no magazine shakes, and fairly accurate. Maybe it is just luck of the draw, but don't discount the WASR. It's a cheap alternative that may be what you are looking for.

Rezin
October 9, 2006, 12:46 PM
I took my new WASR10 out this weekend to a private range. I put 750+ rounds trhu it, not a single misfire. I dunno about long distnces, as it is only a 50-60 yard range, but I was picking off bowling pins with ease at 50 yards from a standing position. (I do think I need a longer stock now tho...)

The rifle was flawless, weather squeezing as fast as you can, or taking your time. I just FIRED. The AR's there both had a couople jams, and they fired far fewer rounds.

I got the WASR for reliability, and it looks like I got my moneys worth.... :D

amprecon
October 9, 2006, 12:55 PM
As well you should :)

AK103K
October 9, 2006, 12:57 PM
I do think I need a longer stock now tho...)
Resist this with all your might! Once you get used to the proper length stock, you will be cutting the difference off all your longer ones, trust me. :)

The issue AK's stock has the exact LOP as most combat rifles, including the M16/M16A1.(the A2's are 5/8" longer) They are not "short" as you constantly hear. If you want a rifle that will shoulder quickly and naturally, leave it alone.

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