[Zundfolge]

I was just in the "reading room" reading an article on cowboy shooting (which despite my lack of interest in cowboy guns, still looks like a hoot and a half!).

Anyway, I'm looking at the pictures of all these guys (and gals) all dressed up in their cowboy duds and all lined up at the firing line with s*** eating grins on their faces, blasting away in Isosceles and weaver stances.

I can understand that you're probably more accurate with a modern shooting stance, but isn't part of the point to "relive" the old west experience?

Are there some sort of rules against one handed shooting in cowboy shooting?

[Tamara]

Aren't there rules against two hand shooting in Duelist class? :confused:


(I still want to petition them to allow Broomhandle Mausers... :D )

[Jim March]

Ya, and if you look at some of the blue jeans, you'll see where the belt loops were cut off :). Or the wrist tan lines where the watch normally goes, or the contacts, or...:D

[iamkris]

One handed shooting is in the Duelist class. One handed with 2 pistols at a time is called Gunfighter.

While the man goal is to shoot, have fun and relive the old West, it is a timed event and competive. People will shott however will make them the fastest...as long as they don't get too uptight about it.

Try it. It's fun.

[Ian]

Tam - Many cowboy clubs have Wild Bunch matches from time to time - where any pre-1915 designed weapon is allowed.

Most shooters enter the Traditional or Modern classes, which are two-handed. Then there's Duelist, which is one-handed only, and Gunfighter, which requires using two pistols at the same time.

[Tamara]

Isn't the standard SASS thing for pre-1900 guns? I mean, if they let you use a Winchester M1897 shotgun, they should let you shoot a pistol design that's one year older. ;) :p

[Jim March]

Being serious a sec, it's not just about the guns, it's about rediscovering old skills, hammer slipping and such.

I've seen pictures dating to the 1920s that show a "Weaver" type of hold. I find it rather impossible that two-handed shooting wasn't used in the old west...for that matter, the off-hand thumbing of the hammer is just too obvious a gag not to have had somebody figure it out way back when.

So the "single action revolver only" rule makes perfect sense, even if it gets applied in funky ways :).

[Dr.Rob]

Yeah and why hasn't some intrepid italian remade an 1877/1878 double action revolver?? Hmmmmmmmm?

Lol and Tams, you must wear a full length car caot and driving goggles if you pack a Mauser.

[ACP230]

Wild Bill Hickock wore a brace of Colt Navy revolvers. In one of his gunfights he used a two handed hold to shoot an opponent at "long" range. (It might have been 35 yards or 50 I can't remember that detail at the moment.)

Two handed holds have been around for quite a while.

[griz]

The whole thing started with a bunch of guys who got together once in a while to shoot their old Colts and guns like them. It evolved into SASS, the Single Action Shooting Society. With a name like that, you can understand why double actions, even pre 1900 DAs, are not allowed.

And you are right, it is tons of fun. I shot in a match where you had to pick up a toy gun from a bucket and "shoot" it while running to the place you fired your first real gun. One guy was enjoying himself so much that he kept going Bang Bang for a few seconds with the toy gun even though he had arrived at the firing point. In a sport where your time is your score, having fun is the only reason to do that.

[George Hill]

I went to a SASS shoot once... I had a blast. It could have been very addictive to me if it wasn't for all the costumes. I don't feel the need to dress up like that.
I know you don't have to - but the rule that I had to take off my ball cap and put on a cowboy hat before I stepped up to the line was annoying.

[braindead0]

but the rule that I had to take off my ball cap and put on a cowboy hat before I stepped up to the line was annoying

Particularly considering that not everyone wore a 'cowboy hat', what about a sombrero, a Bowler (1850), a Fez (1826), Panama hats (somewhere around mid 1800's)..etc..etc..

Top hats, 'tam o' shanters'..there's gotta be tons of different hats that would have been appropriate....

[MrAcheson]

IIRC ball caps are specifically against the rules in CAS as are t-shirts. They're have been people that shot CAS in period bathing suit and cap, engineers caps, etc. though.

[Wil Terry]

Springfield, Missouri.
It was estimated to be about 75 yards.
The recipient of Mr Hickok's lesson in long range pistolcraft was one Dave Tutt, if memory serves.
Mr Tutt was an obnoxious big mouth who had won Mr Hickok's pocket watch in a poker game, as collateral against monies owed, and shot off his mouth about it.
There are rumors to the affect a woman was involved too...

[El Tejon]

Zun, depends on the category of the competition. We have "wounded vaquero" events where you have to use the non-dom hand only.

CAS is a lot of fun. Targets are big and the people are decent and very friendly.

One of my clubs has side matches for buffalo rifles, derringers and the like at their shoots. Good time, check it out.

[iamkris]

You most definitely don't "have" to wear a cowboy hat. Most people dress cowboy but many see how outrageous they can be. Feels strange but when everyone else is doing it, becomes easier. I'm a Span-Am War veteran myself. As long as you don't wear t-shirts and baseball caps.

At one of the big shoots last year, a bunch of guys dressed up like a late 1890's baseball team. A few whiners complained but most people thought it was fun.

Definitely would like to shoot a Wild Bunch match. Would love to dress like Pershing.

[George Hill]

To me, it's about the shooting.
The clothing rules official SASS or local is what ruined it for me.

To the SASS's credit, the guys there were very cool, and I had my pick of cowboy headgear to wear when stepping up to the range.

[Wil Terry]

What did make me walk away from the SASS type shooting was the absolutely wimpy loads [ and the whiners who use them ] they let into the matches. A 45COLT should be shootin' 250gr bullets at a minimum of 900FPS, not 185 or 200's at 650FPS, or 38SPL 125's at 650FPS which is too woosy to begger comment, and hearing complaints about RECOIL being so heavy it slowed 'em down...made me want to puke so I just packed my gear and headed on down the road...
Now me and the MRS head up into the Black Hills once a week or so and burn up 6-800 rounds or more having a wonderful time with no one around to tell me when to shoot, where to shoot, and at what...we IOIOF charter members prefer it that way anyhow.

[Andrew Wyatt]

why don't we start the IDpre1900PA?


weapons have to be pre 1900

ammunition has to be full power service ammo

single and double actions are allowed, broomhandle mausers, bergmann bayards, and whathave you, too.



i suppose we could scoot the date forward a tad, and make it the IDWBSA (international wild bunch shooting association), and have rifle stages at real rifle range, allow full power rifles, an kind of pre 1915 rifle, pistol and shotgun, and whathave you.

[ambidextrous1]

Make it pre-1915, Andy, and I'm in.

I have a 1911 or two (or five); have always wanted a Springfield '03.

Remember: No wimp loads! :D

[Andrew Wyatt]

we could make exceptions for number4 mk1's and then i'd have a pistol, rifle AND shotgun that would fit the bill.


i wonder if this'd take off.

[Jim March]

You know what I'd pay good money to see?

A SASS side match where there's only one rule: it has to be a single action revolver. Other than that...compressed air ejection system slung under a fluted titanium barrel, grips off of a Hammerli, glass holosights, basically SA parodies of IPSC raceguns :).

[ambidextrous1]

It's already started, Andy! I'm looking for cowboy boots now!:D

[Tom C.]

I have been doing it for the last 3 yrs. The shooting is the thing for me. The clothes are just something to wear to be legal. They look a little strange, but they are really pretty practical. Shooting handguns, rifle and shotgun on each stage is fun. Learning to make those guns sing is fun. Ladies actually have the advantage of better average manual dexterity than the men. I have dragged my wife to several different styles of shooting competition, and this is the first she actually likes.

[Andrew Wyatt]

the thing i don't like about SASS is it makes no attempt to replicate scenarios that someone in the time period they're trying to replicate would face.

they need some 150-200 yard rifle shots, and targets that aren't bottles or 4'X8' sheets of steel, and they need to place their targets a little farther out than belly gun range.