Is a 300 win mag too big for deer?


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tobe
October 6, 2006, 11:08 PM
I was wodering if a 300 is too big for deer,I'm thinking about using my 30.30 but where i'm going I may have a good chance at black bear also.I don't want overkill for deer but I don't want to undergunned for bear either.This is just my second year hunting and I don't want to start off by wounding an animal and not find it.I'm a fairly good shot with both but targets don't suffer.Thanks

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Art Eatman
October 6, 2006, 11:44 PM
I guess the way to put it is that the .30-30 will be plenty good so long as you're within your accuracy range.

To me, the main problem with a .30-30 isn't the cartridge itself. It's the typically low-quality iron sights that come with the rifle; they limit the usable range.

In the FWIW department, I've always figured that out at your limit for you to hit the end of a beer can from a field-situation hasty rest, is about the limit for shooting.

Art

carnaby
October 7, 2006, 12:26 AM
I asked this question last year and the response was pretty much go ahead with the .300 win mag, lots of people had good results, but be sure to use a premium bullet, or you might have problems.

I load my own, so I can load down to .30-06 type velocities/energy and it shoots really well. I decided this year to just go with 180 gn Speer Game Kings in full power loads, which I read good reviews of. Should be OK. :)

I'm a noob, so take that with a grain of salt. It's just the consensus from other's opinions I've gathered over the last year.

tobe
October 7, 2006, 12:39 AM
Thanks for the replies,part of me wants to use the 30.30 I just like it,and part wants to use the 300, I geuss i'll decide before next week .I'll definately
be using the 300 for elk.Next year I'm going to get a 30.06 or 7mm and I'll be ok with either .Now I just have to decide on which one I want.If I keep talking about it my wife will just tell me to shut up and get 1 a year,oh well just her way of saying I love you.Thanks

SRMohawk
October 7, 2006, 01:15 AM
Tobe,
With full-house, 180-gr and heavier loads, a .300 Win. Mag. is so much more powerful than most people -- even those who own and shoot them -- give credit. I've killed one game animal (a 160-lb Fallow deer) with one and seen another handful of deer and antelope killed with them, and in every case the these animals were knocked on their asses same as if they'd been hit with a P/U truck! In one instance, this friend of my father's hit a huge Axis buck with one on our lease in Southwest Texas that we lasered at 440 yards out. Nonetheless, that thing came off all four of it's hooves at once, spun completely around and just dropped like a wet bag of *****! We even saw the projectile hit the side of a hill some 200 yards beyond like it hadn't even passed through a 200+ pound animal's boilerworks!

'Card
October 7, 2006, 01:28 AM
I've got a .300WinMag BAR. It's not my preferred deer hunting rifle (I generally use my .30-06 or my .300 Savage) but if my 'plan for the day' involves sitting on one mountain and looking (with binos) across the holler at another mountain, then I'll pull out the cannon for that.

So I've shot... I don't know, I guess probably 5 or 6 deer with it. Not certain what your concerns might be. It hits hard (on both ends) but it's not like it's gonna blow the deer into bite-size chunks or anything. Practically speaking, entry and exit wounds are pretty much the same as with a .30-06, in my experience.

My only advice would be that if you want to stay friends with your hunting buddies, and they're standing anywhere near you when you're about to pull the trigger, mention to them that covering their ears might be a good idea. :cool:

jeepmor
October 7, 2006, 09:03 AM
I bought a 300 WSM and it's ballistics are nearly identical to 300 WinMag. I think all applies except handloading workups. I've been told to use 180 grain bullets for everything, in premium grades. But I'm limited to bullet weight due to short action design compared to the 300 winmag offerings.

I suspect I'll use lighter bullets for smaller game, and as a handloader, I can reduce loads also. But accuracy is key and it may require the higher shooting pressures. Not sure with the longer case of the Winmag. For recoil, I'll go with 150 or 165 for deer, it will handle all my needs until elk, which will be 180 grainers for humane wind bucking long shots.

jeepmor

dfaugh
October 7, 2006, 09:43 AM
Well.....can you say "overkill"?

Not that the .300 won't work, but its alot more gun than necessary, even for black bear. You don't give a location, so I don't know what type of conditions you'll be hunting under. If you'll be "in the brush", where shots will typically be short (most of the northern US), I'd probably go for the 30-30. If you have a scoped .300, and may be using it at longer ranges(over 100-125 yrds), then I'd probably go with that.

Art Eatman
October 7, 2006, 10:58 AM
I've never been particularly recoil sensitive, but I've never seen the need to endure unpleasantness at my shoulder. I discovered many years back that the old '06 was plenty good enough for most any lower-48 critter inside of 300 yards or so. (Some first hand; some, vicariously from reading.) I'm not gonna knock magnums; I've just never really seen the need. That doesn't mean I don't think folks oughta buy one, of course. It's just that I ain't gonna.

But the reason I raised the issue of sights in my first post is that for critters inside 100 yards, a .300 Maggie isn't gonna make a deer or bear any deader than a thutty-thutty.

Of course, if a fella's got a feather in his nether, he probably oughta go buy whatever it is that scratches his itch.

:), Art

R.W.Dale
October 7, 2006, 12:07 PM
But the reason I raised the issue of sights in my first post is that for critters inside 100 yards, a .300 Maggie isn't gonna make a deer or bear any deader than a thutty-thutty.

True , but what happens when you step out of the treeline into a cow pasture/soybean field and see a 12 point standing next to your truck 350 yds away:evil: At that point you're undergunned for whitetail with a 30-30

A 300 win mag with the right bullets will make a good 75yd deer rifle, However a 30-30 makes for a pretty sorry 300yd deer rifle. For me it's all about having the power there in case I need it.


How many people who poo poo using magnums for deer have the base 6cyl engine in thier trucks?? The speed limit is only 70 after all. Or for that matter you can watch a 15" TV just fine, Why go bigger.

nico
October 7, 2006, 11:23 PM
I think what a few people have aluded to is that you don't really need any more gun for black bear than you need for deer.

If you're absolutely not going to take a shot further than 100 yards, I'd go with the 30-30. If longer shots are a realistic possibility, or if there's any chance you'll have a 150+ yard shot, I'd go with the 300.

EVIL5LITER
October 8, 2006, 09:39 AM
True , but what happens when you step out of the treeline into a cow pasture/soybean field and see a 12 point standing next to your truck 350 yds away At that point you're undergunned for whitetail with a 30-30

A 300 win mag with the right bullets will make a good 75yd deer rifle, However a 30-30 makes for a pretty sorry 300yd deer rifle. For me it's all about having the power there in case I need it.

I think that if you can't stalk into shooting range with that .30-30 of that 12 point buck, you're a pretty sorry hunter. Maybe you should take up video games?

Charles S
October 8, 2006, 11:12 AM
I think that if you can't stalk into shooting range with that .30-30 of that 12 point buck, you're a pretty sorry hunter. Maybe you should take up video games?

Then I must be a pretty sorry hunter, and if you can stalk that deer with certainty you are a much better hunter than me and out of my class.

I have hunted for 25 years now and my passion is still hunting in the thickets and bottoms. I love to spot and stalk. I hunt with a bow from the ground and from stands and I have been fortunate enough to kill deer while stalking with a bow.

I personally would give myself a 95% probability of getting a little closer and having a comfortable shot (depending upon wind, cover, light, and other extraneous variables) with a 270 Winchester or a 300 Win Mag. I would only have to take the time to close the distance to around 300 yards. If the deer was magnificent I might even take a 350 yards shot. I practice often for that eventuality.

I hunt a great deal with a 30-30, I have a customized Winchester 94 that I handload for and shoot a great deal. I am comfortable with a 175 yard shot with that gun at the outside. I would much prefer a 100 yard shot with my Winchester 94. To kill the above mentioned deer I would now have to stalk within 200 yards of the animal for a comfortable shot and I would be willing to bet the animal just would not give me that kind of time.

I personally would not give myself a 50% probability of killing the above mentioned 12 point buck with a starting distance of 350 yards with my 30-30.

I still hunt a lot. I love to hunt in that manner and I am also aware of the many things that can go wrong and cause a deer to flag and me to never get the opportunity to make a shot.

If you feel that you can make the stalk to cleanly kill a 12 point buck from 350 yards with a 30-30 with certainty I am impressed, you must be an incredible hunter.

I donít appreciate you putting down the rest of us with lesser skills.

I personally believe that a 300 Win Mag is too much gun for white tails for most people, but if you like the gun, can shoot it well and are willing to practice then you will do fine. I personally love the 300 Mag and own two of them; I donít often hunt with them for white tails.

The above mentioned advice of using the correct bullets and loads is important with a 300 Mag.

AnthonyRSS
October 8, 2006, 11:23 AM
How big is the deer? I want to make sure it is worth it before I shoot through the deer and put a bullet in my truck. Sacrifices can be made, though.

Charles S
October 8, 2006, 11:26 AM
How big is the deer? I want to make sure it is worth it before I shoot through the deer and put a bullet in my truck. Sacrifices can be made, though.

That is just not fair, now I have to clean up the coffee from my keyboard. I am with you though, if the 12 point is big enough....well bullet holes can be fixed.

R.W.Dale
October 8, 2006, 12:33 PM
I think that if you can't stalk into shooting range with that .30-30 of that 12 point buck,you're a pretty sorry hunter. Maybe you should take up video games?

PLEASE! Mabye you should lay off the video games. What the heck are you gonna do? Put on your Guillie suit and spend 6 hours closing the distance across a freshly brushogged cow pasture.

Or mabye you'll go the bugs bunny route and hide behing a cardboard cutout of a bush sneakin a few steps closer when the deer ain't lookin.

Please enlighten us as to how you "stalk" up on a deer sanding in the middle of a wide open soybean field. Trust me I'ed like to know.

you're a pretty sorry hunter

You know what? you're a pretty sorry BS'er

AnthonyRSS
October 8, 2006, 12:39 PM
I would dress up as an acorn and just have the deer come to me. Then I would jump on it and keel it with a k nife. I've always wanted to do that. Its just so tactical.

R.W.Dale
October 8, 2006, 12:40 PM
How big is the deer? I want to make sure it is worth it before I shoot through the deer and put a bullet in my truck. Sacrifices can be made, though.

I don't know you'ed have to calculate how the deer size over niceness of truck ratio works out:evil:

mio
October 8, 2006, 12:49 PM
I see a lot of people bring up the shortcomming of the .30-.30 distance. How much do you practice shooting at 200 or 300yrds. Its wooded everywhere that i hunt and i dont practice shooting over 100yrds except to take a shot at the 200yrd target couple times a year at the range just for kicks. I wouldnt feel sure of a kill at that range and if you wouldnt either you should just take the 30.30

Stinger
October 8, 2006, 09:08 PM
My guess would be that your average hunter would have better luck stumbling, oops, I mean stalking closer to bambi than they would of making a 350 yard shot.

Of course, this being the internet, most people on this site shoot about 1/2" groups at that distance. :)

Most hunters, myself included, can't guesstimate distance well enough to judge 350 yards from 550 yards (yeah, I'm exaggerating a smidge.) Sure, they make a doohickey that measure distances, but I don't need something else to carry.

I say that since you had to ask, take the 30-30 and take shots your comfortable with.

Stinger

22-rimfire
October 8, 2006, 11:26 PM
If the area you hunt in is likely to present shots of 200 yds or more and you are up to the challenge, I'd use the 300 win mag. If you are hunting in the woods, I would use the 30-30. Also depends on the likelihood of seeing a bear while deer hunting. If the likelihood is better than average, I'd use the 300 win mag. The 30-30 is big enough for a black bear. In general the 300 win mag is un-necessarily powerful for most deer hunting scenarios unless you are taking very long shots.

SteveS
October 9, 2006, 10:52 AM
I think that if you can't stalk into shooting range with that .30-30 of that 12 point buck, you're a pretty sorry hunter. Maybe you should take up video games?

I am sure that the deer will cooperate and stay nice and still as you get closer. I am defibately an advocate of trying to get closer, but sometimes circumstances (such as wind, terrain, and time of day) do not allow you to.

DavidAk311
October 9, 2006, 06:01 PM
The 300winmag is a great deer gun....your distance shots are limited only by your abilities, and you get the penetration potential for tough-angle shots...

Sunray
October 9, 2006, 10:11 PM
"...have the base 6cyl engine in thier(sic) trucks..." Me for one. And it'll cruise all day a 70mph with no fuss. The .300 mag is unnecessary for deer. Isn't necessary for much of anything in North America. Even big bears.
Mind you, I'm not a big fan of the .30-30 in a lever action either. Nothing wrong with the cartridge, but generally speaking, lever actions leave a lot to be desired in the accuracy department and the felt recoil is excessive for the power of the cartridge. At least in a 94 Winchester. Then again, lots of black bears have been taken with the .30-30 using the same ammo you'd use for deer with no fuss. Sight in with good ammo and have good peep sights on it.

MCgunner
October 9, 2006, 10:31 PM
.30-30 is more'n enough for black bear within 150 yards with a 170 grain bullet. I expect it's killed more deer and black bear than about any other caliber. The rifles are accurate, let no one tell you different. A good lyman or williams receiver ghost ring sight really helps. My friend has a pre-64 with a ghost ring receiver aperture sight and I can put 'em into 2" at 100 yards with it, don't get a whole lot better. Yeah, I don't have, nor have I ever had a 94 or Marlin lever gun, but I won't sell the .30-30 short. I did have a Savage M340 bolt gun once and shoot it in a 12 inch contender barrel now. I load Nosler ballistic tips for deer and Barnes 140 grain X bullets for heavier game like hogs and it has anchored everything I've shot so far, all inside 100 yards. Out of that gun, with those bullets, it's good to 200 yards on medium game from that pistol barrel.

The .300 mag is excessive, but you don't have to shoot full power and you can choose a heavy bullet that won't tear up so much meat on deer and will still kill bear. Heck, it'll kill BROWN bear, much less blacks. Black bear ain't that tough to kill, thin skinned really, not that I've ever shot one, though, so don't listen to me. :D But, .30-30, .257 Roberts, 6mm Remington, .308 Winchester, I've seen all these calibers recommended as good black bear medicine. If a .44 mag can stop one, I KNOW the .30-30 will. Nobody seems to argue the .44's worth on black bear, even in short barrel handguns. Well, a .30-30 with a 170 grain flat nose has a better ballistic coefficient and is starting out with about 1800 ft lbs of energy, well above a revolver fired .44. Those big flat nose bullets have a better SD and open very reliably on impact. That is what has made the .30-30 a great killer of medium game for 112 years.

So now, there's one determining factor on which I'd take, RANGE. If you think you might be shootin' out at 300 yards, forget the .30-30. I haven't looked at the new Hornady extended range stuff, supposed to be good, but 300 yards is WAY out there for a .30-30, on the edge of even a good boat tail bullet load fired out of a rifle. The .300 would be the better choice over 200 yards IMHO.

BIGR
October 11, 2006, 09:12 PM
Not too big for deer but might be more gun that is needed. I usually hunt with a 30.06 but had to try out the 300 mag model 70 one year. I shot a doe at 75 feet and it actually knocked it down on the ground where it stood. The 30 30 will take any deer or black bear you encounter. That caliber has taken down alot of big game in brush country and has made a name for itself. I does not take gobs of power to kill deer.

Art Eatman
October 11, 2006, 10:34 PM
"I think that if you can't stalk into shooting range with that .30-30 of that 12 point buck, you're a pretty sorry hunter. Maybe you should take up video games?"

Y'know, I have visions of this video-gamer down on the ground in the mesquite and cactus, crawling across some 200 yards or more while getting into range. Of course, that crawling takes a while. He raises up, looks around, and he's all alone in the middle of a thousand or so acres. Bambi got bored and left. All our intrepid nimrod has left is the need for a pair of pliers to take out the cactus, and a helluva lot of topical pain-reliever. And a laundromat.

(Sometimes the best way to deal with cactus is just shave the affected areas and wait until the tips fester out. Doesn't take over a couple of months, usually.)

I've watched a few would-bes in the stalking bidness, these last 60 or so years. My wrinkles come from grinning.

:D, Art

GSPKurt
October 13, 2006, 09:29 PM
I have a .300 WinMag, and a .30-30. I'd take the .300WM, load 75 grains of IMR4350 and a Barnes 150 gr. Triple-Shock X bullet, and be ready for just about anything! Matter of fact, that is EXACTLY what I hunt with. :D

Ben Shepherd
October 14, 2006, 01:35 PM
Boils down to this IME/IMO:

A 30-30 is PLENTY for deer, even 250-300 lb. mulies. The 300 mag is for hitting FARTHER out, NOT for hitting HARDER at the same distance. I watched my dad litterally bounce a 200ish lb. mulie off a side hill at about 150 yards years ago with his 300 mag with a standing broadside shot just behind the shoulder. Deer was DRT alright, but was also very bloodshot.

Next year he went back to his winchester mdl. 70 XTR in 30-06. That deer ended up just as dead, and we got a lot more meat.

IllHunter
October 15, 2006, 09:59 PM
My now deceased hunting mentor took his last deer with a .300 Wby. The doe walked in to a range of about 5' while Bob was asleep in his chair. The rifle laid across the arms of the director style chair. Luckily when Bob awoke the rifle business end was pointed at the deer and Bob with out thinking or waiting, pulled the pickle.
At the distinctive sound (roar) of the big mag, Bob's son and I headed to him to help if necessary. Bob was walking with a cane and was pretty stressed. We came upon him azz over teacettle, trying to get up in the 12" new snow. The chair was on it's side and we soon noticed the smallish doe lying 10' away in the snow. After righting Bob, we inspected his kill and found a neat clean hole in the boiler room on the animal's right side and a hole big enough to insert both my balled fists into on the other side. We now have this wonderful memory of a great multi-continent hunter who took his last harvest from a side-on seated position with too much gun.

A_Swede_17_1911
October 17, 2006, 11:50 AM
Like some one stated already the 300 mag would be ideal if you shots were going to be at longer ranges.

I would chose the 30-30, loaded with some 170 grain bullets, Or the Hornady Lever Evolution 160 Grains, if you feel you might have a shot out to 300yds. You will be served well by the 30-30.

If you feel your shot is going to be over 250 yds then maybe I would take the 300 mag.

Sounds like your just concerned about having enought gun for the black bear. You will have enough with the 30-30.

I have friends that use 300 win mags for black tails, but they also shoot from ridge to ridge. They usally miss alot more than they hit too. I think that is more the hunter than the gun though.

pete f
October 18, 2006, 12:04 AM
I stand and applaud this group, for the first time in history it seems, thoughtful, experienced wisdom has been passed on regarding caliber choice for deer. I have had it up to my noggin with people thinking .338 mags are marginal for white tail. No one says that the piddling 300winmag is the bare minimum for whitetail.

White tails do not eat you or stomp your AXX into dust if you do not kill them in their tracks. More people would take home venision with a 6.5 swede or 257 bob than with a 300 or 7 mag. You just shoot better when you do not get punched up. And no repeat NO deer is going to run off from being fairly hit with a Swede or a Bob. You will get more meat out of the deer and your gonna love being able to see the bullet hit thru the crosshairs.

DavidAk311
October 18, 2006, 02:29 PM
I'd add that I sometimes use a .375 H&H on deer, and ours are little Sitka Blacktails. I've watched my brother kill 50+ blacktails with his 300 winmag.

Other than being heavy to carry, I've never regretted having a larger caliber, but have on a couple of occasions wished for one...

Never saw the "too big" argument as being very sensible....use whatever you shoot well....

A 375 victim:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/davidak311/NovBuck.jpg

DavidAk311
October 18, 2006, 02:31 PM
I'd also submit that bullet selection and placement can mean more than caliber...especially with regard to meat loss.

phantomak47
July 29, 2007, 08:53 PM
Bumping this post up because it somewhat answers my question.


Does a .375 h&h do less meat damage on a say a whitetail/hog than a .300 win mag? Is bigger better in this case, rather than velocity? Or is the .375h&h too much of a cannon on a deer? I have never shot a .375 so I need some input on this.

Geno
July 29, 2007, 09:02 PM
Depends on bullet configuration, weight, velocity, etc. Either .300 Win Mag or the .375 H&H Mag can do damage or fail to do damage.

Doc2005

Lennyjoe
July 29, 2007, 10:35 PM
My brother in law in WVA puts them down every year with his 300 Win Mag and they don't complain. ;)

Dfitz
September 13, 2007, 03:03 PM
To much thinking is going into this matter! 30-30+Lung shot= Dead Dear
300+lung shot = Dead Dear If this mathematical explanation does not help then go with this theory! Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it!:rolleyes:

MeekandMild
September 13, 2007, 05:23 PM
Art will probably vouch for this too; a .243 will put a deer down like it's been run over by a truck. So one should not be necessarily impressed by this picture.

Somehow the idea of a bullet traveling for 200 yards after it has gone through a deer really bothers me and I believe a lower velocity would be more suitable for deer hunting than a full power load in a 300 Win mag. I think if I had to deer hunt with one I'd probably load 150 grain ballistic tips of one brand or another over the starting measure of 4320 and pretend I was shooting a 30-06.

Charles S
September 13, 2007, 05:47 PM
Somehow the idea of a bullet traveling for 200 yards after it has gone through a deer really bothers me and I believe a lower velocity would be more suitable for deer hunting than a full power load in a 300 Win mag.

Meek,

Have you been shooting your deer with AP ammo for long? Or do you just have no experience with the 300 Win Mag?

The increased velocities generated by magnums tend to cause bullets to open faster (unless utilizing solids) and therefore create larger wounds. Unless you are using a supper premium bullet designed for deep penetration (e.g. Barnes, Trophy Bonded, Swift) with a high sectional density (e.g. greater than 0.270) then the 300 will generally not penetrate as well as a standard caliber, but will create a much larger wound (typically more blood shot meat) with a larger energy dump.

On a large deer a 308 with a 165 gr Sierra GameKing is much more likely to give you a through and through wound than is a 300 Winchester Magnum loaded to its potential with a 165 gr Sierra Gameking.

There are a lot of valid reasons for not selecting a 300 Winchester for Deer hunting, but over penetration is not one. One can select the wrong load in any caliber and have a failure, that is the fault of the user not the cartridge. Actually bullet selection becomes more critical as you begin to push the velocity up past 3000 FPS.

Triple S
September 13, 2007, 06:06 PM
I have used a .300 WBY and .300 WSM on many deer. A few words of advice from my experiences:

1) Do not use too soft/explosive of a bullet: I have seen bullets explode on a close shots and not penetrate very much at all.

2) Do not use too tough a bullet either. I believe lesser powered, cartridges would have killed the deer, faster becuase the tough bullets would simply zip through and not expand (Fail safes/A-Frames). Did I find the deer? Yes, but they tended to run quite a bit farther compared to being hit with a more controlled, expanding bullet.

My favorite bullets for hunting with .300's are: 165-180 grain Accubonds/Partitions/Triple Shocks/ and Sciroccos.

...MHO

mustanger98
September 13, 2007, 09:47 PM
.300WinMag: No experience, so no comment.

.30-30Win.:

Rifle- 1894 manufactured in 1971, 22" barrel

Sights- factory gold bead front, Lyman #2 tang sight on rear

This combination works for me and a lot of other hunters. I've understood Lyman's been making that sight for use on leverguns since 1881 or '82. I can shoot this sight picture on this rifle a lot more accurately than a lot of others. I got my deer last fall with it and 150gr CoreLokt. It was a humane kill, so I figure what more do I really need? Every time I ask myself "do I need a magnum", the answer is "naahhhh".

The problem here, according to this ballistic calculator, is that if you sight in a 170grainer running 2000fps at 300yds, it's gonna be nearly 15" high at 150yds... not good if the deer's kill zone's a 10"+/- circle and you're sighted in to shoot the pipe. However... ...if you're using 150grainers, it's a 10-11" midrange trajectory. But, you do lose a lot of velocity and ft./lbs. over that distance.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html

MeekandMild
September 13, 2007, 11:43 PM
Have you been shooting your deer with AP ammo for long? DUH! (Replying in kind to uncalled for rudeness), do you know what the words "ballistic tip" and "starting load" mean?

Ballistic tips bullets are basically hollow points with the tips filled with soft-but-tough polycarbonate plastic. They are in no way AP bullets.

The starting load of IMR 4320 in a 300 Winchester magnum shooting a 150 grain bullet produces a velocity of around 2700-2800 fps and a 200 yard energy of roughly 1650 foot pounds per second. This is nearly the equivalent of the maximum load of 4350 in a .308 shooting a 150 grain bullet and is a bit milder than maximum loads in a 30-06.

I say again, DUH. :rolleyes:

Steel Talon
September 14, 2007, 12:22 AM
Well.....can you say "overkill"?

What exactly is overkill?.. I've always thought dead is dead , never knew it was a measurable action. Other than sometimes its fast, sometimes it's not so fast.

As for the .300 WM go for it, if your comfortable with the re-coil.. I'd say its more of a matter of rifle weight vs. field carry comfort. I've killed many an animal with mine.

However, now-a-days I use a 25-06.

Peace
ST~:cool:

EDIT: My .300 WM handloads the 168gr Hornady Spire point has always worked exemplary for me.

ReadyontheRight
September 14, 2007, 01:42 AM
Is a 300 win mag too big for deer?

No. And a 30-30 is not too small for deer. Shoot 'em both well and have fun.

jmorris
September 14, 2007, 08:48 AM
300mag & excessive meat damage? You must really like deer ribs:rolleyes:

quicktime
September 14, 2007, 09:06 AM
[QUOTE][True , but what happens when you step out of the treeline into a cow pasture/soybean field and see a 12 point standing next to your truck 350 yds away At that point you're undergunned for whitetail with a 30-30
/QUOTE]

Then I promptly lay down my 17lb Nesika in 300wsm with the bipod and end his right to look at my truck. I had it happen two years ago minus the truck in South Dakota 377 yards with one of those fancy range telling devices. the only dissapointment I had was in the performance of the 130 grain Speer bullet I selected. I now carry 150 grain nosler BT for deer and 180 grain Scirocco's for elk. I would rather bring too much gun (no such thing) than not enough (happens to a lot of people) to the field. I think either one will work for the average situation but, who wants average.

Art Eatman
September 14, 2007, 11:03 AM
Looking at this resurrected thread, I guess I'd add that my only objection to something like a .300 Maggie is the recoil. Since an '06 works just fine to 400 and 500 yards, I don't see any particular reason to go bigger. well, not for Bambi, anyway.

If the tyopical shooting distance is inside of 300 yards, lots of "lesser" cartridges, with less recoil, will do just fine.

But if all I had was some sort of El Bigboomo, that's darned well what I'd use. :D

Art

Kingcreek
September 14, 2007, 12:06 PM
What exactly is overkill?.. I've always thought dead is dead
Overkill is when the deer is dead AND REINCARNATED before it hits the ground.
I've no problem using .300 for deer. I've done it with almost no meat damage and I don't find the recoil objectionable. But the .300 is certainly more than is usually necessary to bring down a deer. I've killed more deer with a .243 but I have come to prefer the .308 as a balance of recoil, power, and terminal effect.

Charles S
September 14, 2007, 05:01 PM
Replying in kind to uncalled for rudeness

My apologies. Gee...I am truly sorry. I was not shooting for rude. I was shooting for sarcastic. Poor articulation on my part.

Somehow the idea of a bullet traveling for 200 yards after it has gone through a deer

To date, I have kill 24 deer with various 300 magnums. I have yet to have over penetration as an issue. I certainly have never had a 300 Win Mag bullet (or any 30 caliber mag bullet) penetrate a deer and go 200 yards. I reiterate: Do you have any experience with the 300 magnum?

You posts still fail to answer the original question.

Is a 300 win mag too big for deer?

Further, your post demonstrate a gross lack of understanding of terminal ballistics either from lack of experience or lack of knowledge.

Ballistic tips bullets are basically hollow points with the tips filled with soft-but-tough polycarbonate plastic. They are in no way AP bullets.

The starting load of IMR 4320 in a 300 Winchester magnum shooting a 150 grain bullet produces a velocity of around 2700-2800 fps and a 200 yard energy of roughly 1650 foot pounds per second. This is nearly the equivalent of the maximum load of 4350 in a .308 shooting a 150 grain bullet and is a bit milder than maximum loads in a 30-06.

Actually again...you fail to answer the question. The question was.....

Is a 300 win mag too big for deer?

Not: can I load a 300 Winchester Magnum down to recoil levels I tolerate and use a fairly fragile bullet and it still work?

Actually, I do have experience with the Nosler Ballistic Tip in 165 grain weight. In 1988 I decided to build a custom 30-06 rifle and start to handload. My first load was a 165 grain Nolster balistic tip in Winchester Cases with Winchester primers and utilizing IMR 4350 powder. The load was very accurate and I took 6 deer (Central Texas - rather smallish deer) that year. Performance wise the first deer was textbook - through and through with great expansion. The next five deer I killed did not have an exit wound with 165 gr 30-06 loads (Should be similar velocities to the load you mentioned with higher sectional densities). I have not used Nosler Balistic Tips since. I understand the ballistic tip is a better bullet now, but after using the Sierra GameKing, the Nolser Solid Base Boat Tail, and the Hornady Interbond; I have never looked for better performance in the standard bullet offerings.

There is no need to load the 300 Winchester down for White Tails, there are a number of factory loads that will work just fine. I had some handloads get wet (poor packing on my part) on a trip to South Carolina last year and used the 300 Winchester 180 grain Fusion loads just fine. No problems.

My personal handload is 165 grain Triple Shock Barnes over a generous amount of Reloader 22 in whatever cases are available with Winchester LRM primers.

If I want a 308 load. I carry my 308.

the .300 is certainly more than is usually necessary to bring down a deer.

Agreed. See my first post.

Triple S
September 14, 2007, 05:25 PM
This is a great recap:

Actually, I do have experience with the Nosler Ballistic Tip in 165 grain weight. In 1988 I decided to build a custom 30-06 rifle and start to handload. My first load was a 165 grain Nolster balistic tip in Winchester Cases with Winchester primers and utilizing IMR 4350 powder. The load was very accurate and I took 6 deer (Central Texas - rather smallish deer) that year. Performance wise the first deer was textbook - through and through with great expansion. The next five deer I killed did not have an exit wound with 165 gr 30-06 loads (Should be similar velocities to the load you mentioned with higher sectional densities). I have not used Nosler Balistic Tips since.

+1.....I have had very similar experiences with a .300 WBY and 165 grain BT's. Some shots have been OK, but more times than not, the BT's reactions were too unpredictable. Yes, you can make the point about using them only at long ranges, but this is more for the dedicated hunter waiting only for the right shot, not for general all around use. While I am not much of a fan of BT's, I think they are better suited for standard cartridges.

There is no need to load the 300 Winchester down for White Tails, there are a number of factory loads that will work just fine. I had some handloads get wet (poor packing on my part) on a trip to South Carolina last year and used the 300 Winchester 180 grain Fusion loads just fine. No problems.

My personal handload is 165 grain Triple Shock Barnes over a generous amount of Reloader 22 in whatever cases are available with Winchester LRM primers.


+2...My favorite load for deer hunting with a .300 WBY & .300 WSM have been the 165 or 168 grain Triple Shocks. They hold together on close shots, yet still expand properly on the longer shots.

Do I hunt deer with .300's because I feel as though I need the power? No, it just so happens that one of my most accurate rifles is a .300. I like shooting them so when I switch over to something bigger, like Elk, I am use to the rifle and know what I can do with it. Also, i do take longer shots (I practice) than the average person, so I like the flatter trajectory than the standard cartridges. It's all about confidence.....Yes, a .300 is fine for Deer.

achildofthesky
September 14, 2007, 07:12 PM
But it IS plenty. I have used 338 WM before because I was a 1 gun hunter for years. As well my 30-06 when I first started shooting. For a person wanting 1 gun, go for it. If you can afford more than 1 gun then perhaps you may consider a 7mm-08, 260, 270, 280 or what ever intermediate caliber and also a 300 WM or heavier.

Be safe and enjoy what ever you do choose


Patty

MeekandMild
September 14, 2007, 07:58 PM
OK. let me clarify my thoughts. the 300 Winchester magnum is too much for me to use on whitetails unless the rules of engagement allow me loading it down to a reasonable facsimile of a non-magnum caliber. I really don't care what others use as long as their bullets don't travel over the mountain and hit my house.:rolleyes:

SoCalShooter
September 14, 2007, 08:31 PM
No, I use a 300 weatherby magnum. :)

Steel Talon
September 14, 2007, 10:53 PM
Hello kingcreek..

Overkill is when the deer is dead AND REINCARNATED before it hits the ground.

Thanks brother! :evil: I, have been enlightened...

Peace
Steel Talon :cool:

MeekandMild
September 15, 2007, 05:55 PM
The next five deer I killed did not have an exit wound with 165 gr 30-06 loads (Should be similar velocities to the load you mentioned with higher sectional densities). I have not used Nosler Balistic Tips since. Coming back to this a moment, so how is the lack of exit wound necessarily bad? No exit wound would seem to mean full expansion inside the deer and full expenditure of energy. If a bullet goes right through a deer without releasing it's energy how is that a good thing?

Charles S
September 15, 2007, 06:41 PM
Coming back to this a moment, so how is the lack of exit wound necessarily bad? No exit wound would seem to mean full expansion inside the deer and full expenditure of energy. If a bullet goes right through a deer without releasing it's energy how is that a good thing?

Having hunted for almost 30 years an exit wound is a pre-requisite for a hunting load for me. I agree that theoretically dumping all of a cartridges energy in an animal is a good thing. Practical experience has taught me that two holes...one small (entry) and one large (exit) makes tracking an animal easier. I realize that there are other schools of thought, but I want an exit. I have attempted to track deer (and I am very good at it) shot by others with bullets that did not provide exit wounds (e.g. 243 with varmint loads or the 30-06 with Nolser Ballistic Tips) and have had a less than 100% sucess rate. However with loads that make a large exit wound I have alway recovered the animal.

The esteemed Mr. Carmichael used to write (in Outdoor Life) at what point in the recovery of your animal did you deem your bullet performance inadequate?....that truly applies here. I never lost an animal to the ballistic tip (my brother has), but I personally prefer an exit wound (faster bleeding out and easier tracking).

OK. let me clarify my thoughts. the 300 Winchester magnum is too much for me to use on whitetails unless the rules of engagement allow me loading it down to a reasonable facsimile of a non-magnum caliber.

BTW...your statement makes you smarter than the majority of hunters I have been associated with! I applaud your intelligence and your understanding.

Every hunter and shooter has limits! IMHO...only the truly smart ones recognize them!

H&Hhunter
September 15, 2007, 08:05 PM
All I'll say about this is a premium controlled expansion bullet will tend to minimize meat damage when using a fast round on light critters like a deer.

mustanger98
September 15, 2007, 08:06 PM
The more of these threads I read, the better I like my old .30-30 used within its design parameters. I recall a post further back up the thread about the farthest you can shoot is... how far can you see and hit your target? Limits are the shooter's accuracy and tolerance to felt recoil. If you can't see your target well enough to hit it, don't take the shot. If you can't squeeze the trigger without flinching, you're using too much gun. So use enough rifle that you can hit with without flinching.

Cub
September 16, 2007, 12:27 AM
I beleive the 300 Mag has way too much punch for deer, but that's my opinion. To me a 30-30, 270, or 308 should do the job perfectly.

unreal45
September 19, 2007, 04:23 PM
Either will work (30-30 or 300) but if you use the 300 mag you need a controlled expansion bullet i recommend a nosler partition or accubond.

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