Solicitors and uninvited house "visitors"


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Sean Dempsey
October 8, 2006, 02:33 PM
(If this is not appropriate, move/delete it. This was the best fit of forum i saw.)

My neighborhood has had a recent burst of solicitors and unwanted house visitors. I live in about a 100 home community, walled but not gated, there's only 1 entrance and 1 exit, so none of the homes are on public streets, the entire community is self-contained. Also, I think it's important to note that since we are in southern utah, it's a largely LDS community (the church is right here on the grounds), and largely retired/families. That being said, it's a very quiet, calm place to live. There's no transient rentals or apartments or anything nearby. I love my calm quiet neighborhood...

Oh, and my front hard has about a 3 foot iron fence around it, but my main entryway does not. I just have a screen door and my regular door. So my lawn is not available unless you walk all the way up to my door, then turn back onto the lawn.

In the last week, I've had the following people darken my door:

#1- new orleans refugee selling cleaning products. how do I know he was from NOLA? his entire crew was arrested later that day and written up in the paper. They had hit just about every house in town and people finally just got fed up. They were EXTREMELY aggressive, forcing themselves onto my porch (where I was letting my dog poop on the lawn at the time), and refused to take no for an answer, even going so far as shining my shoes RIGHT THERE without my permission.

When I tried to egress and tell him I was not interested, he became pretty agitated. I just walked back inside and closed my door when he shouted something and then left (to go to the next house). Plus, he approached me with a standard badguy interview, talking about the weather and making casual conversation as he stepped onto my property.

I was EXTREMELY upset by this. I didn't not have a gun on my person when he was there (not that salespeople warrant firearm use), but I felt very threatened by this guys approach and "forcing" himself onto my porch and almost into my house. And when he got mad I wouldn't purchase his cleaning products, he got agitated and tried to get me to buy through intimidation. At that point, there was someone on my property doing something I DID NOT WANT THEM DOING, and I had asked VERY VERY POLITLEY for them to leave multiple times... I wish I had my piece on me.

Later I heard from some other friends they visited that they actually started arguing and swearing at my friend who lives about 5-6 miles away. After this guy left, I was VERY angry... I felt super manipulated and controlled, especially when he tried to use emotion and intimidation to leverage me. :cuss:



#2 - Group of people from unnamed church (not LDS) came to my door to ask if I "Believe we are living in the last days". Very cult-ish. I told them flat out "no, I do not."

They then asked if they could read me some scripture, to which I said "no", and told them I Was not interested. After a few moments of stunned silence, they left. This wasn't threatening, but it still bothered me. You come to my house and ask me if I believe the end of the world is coming, and can you read my from your religious book (they never specified their church).


#3 - Last night, dark, about 8 pm, I am out letting the dog poop again, and this guy comes up and does an "interview" with me about some random stuff, then hands me a flyer and says he can come clean my carpets right then, it'd take about 20 minutes. He asked when the busiest room in my house was, and I told him the "front porch, due to all the traveling sales people".

My wife was putting the baby to bed, and we were getting ready to watch a movie. I told this dude I wasn't interested, and he again got agitated and sorta pissy, and I just walked back in and he left.



Okay, so here's the part about guns. This sort of stuff REALLY pisses me off. Like, bad. Bad bad. :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: I realize that none of these occurances justify even showing a firearm, but I definitley felt violated and manipulated. As responsible firearm users, I believe we are supposed to be polite and assertive. I tried that with these people, and they still got super bitchy with me.

I'm getting pretty tired of feeling controlled by people who violate my space, even in small ways, but not enough to warrant any sort of counter measure. I don't feel that people are free to just come up, ring the hell out of my doorbell, wake up my baby, upset my dog, then try and sell me something I Don't want, refuse to listen to me decline their products/services, and then get agitated when I tell them I am not interested.

So, hopefully I've expressed my frustration. How are we, as people who support the RKBA and are going to be scrutinized for doing so, handle these situations that are definitley violations, but aren't bad enough to use (or even mention) firearms? Because frankly, I'd like to introduce most of these people to the business end of my shotgun. And even thought I am calm and polite with the unwanted visitors, I still feel VERY violated and manipulated, and usually it takes a few hours to calm down from all the adrenaline. People do not have permission to step onto my property, however small, and escelate situations to their fancy. :banghead:

I swear, someday I want to live out of the city on a fenced, gated, "do not disturb" ranch somwhere.

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thumper723
October 8, 2006, 02:44 PM
Sean,

I have had this happen a couple times in the last year, but not all in the same day. 1st was Katrina Refugees. Mind you, I had just gotten back from JTF Katrina (SAR Helicopter Pilot), and had dealt with the dregs of society for 2 weeks screaming at my crewmen, and generally being rude.

My wife had answered the door, and this group of 3 really push 20-30ish men from NOLA tried the same routine that they tried on you. She was polite but they would not leave. I came from around back (I was cooking on my BBQ and heard this). I had my 45 OWB with a cover shirt off. They still got bitchy, until one realized I was armed. Called JSO on them. They were arrested about a week later for breaking and entering. Apparently they were casing those who let them in, one would use the restroom, unlock a window, and they would come back later when nobody was home.

About 2 months ago we had a rash of evey deonmination you can imagine. 2 left as soon as we said "not interested in switching", but 5-6 got really upset.

LkWinnipesaukee
October 8, 2006, 02:47 PM
Cant you just happen to be cleaning one of your guns as they approach you?

Chipperman
October 8, 2006, 02:50 PM
I understand your frustration. Your post brings up a few important points.

1. Walled and/or Gated communities are not the safe havens many sheeple think they are.
2. It is good to be armed, even in your own home.
3. Never trust someone who arrives at your home unbidden
4. Claymores are a good investment

JohnBT
October 8, 2006, 02:57 PM
"#2 - Group of people from unnamed church (not LDS) came to my door..."

I'm sorry, but considering all the LDS members I've had banging on my front door for the past 26+ years (I'm 56) I'm just sitting here thinking there is justice in the universe. :) No offense, it just struck me as funny.

John

Axman
October 8, 2006, 03:02 PM
I know it's irritating, but what really can you do?

Here's how it should go...


Solicitor: May I interest you in XXXX product?

Home owner: No, thank you!

Solicitor: Thank you for your time, have a nice day!!!

Unfortunately it does not go this way in all scenarios.


Now my unusal visitor story...

I live in a very rural area with very few neighbors. I had a knock on my door once and when I looked out the window there was a hispanic male (race is not a factor however) who was clean cut and nicely dressed. I opened the door and left the security screen closed and locked. He told me he needed a ride somewhere because he was at a friend's house nearby and his friend was too drunk to drive him (He had no car himself.). I explained that I would be happy to drive him if I knew him but since I did not know him personally, I would not give him a ride anywhere. He left quite frustrated and I never saw him again. I kept my shotgun in the corner behind the door so it was within reach should he have attempted to open the door (It was locked). He could have been Richard Ramirez or David Burkowitz for all I knew. After this happening over 2 years ago I still can't believe the gall this guy had coming to someone's home to ask for a ride.

dracphelan
October 8, 2006, 03:02 PM
You've hit on one of the reasons why I want to move out in the middle of nowhere. I want my house to be set at least 100 feet from the road and have no trespassing signs. I'm tired of coming home to 3-4 flyers stuck on my door and foot prints in my flower beds.
(Having your own personal range is another reason to live in the country.)

Ala Dan
October 8, 2006, 03:06 PM
I don't allow solictior's near my residence; unless they contact me first by
PX. They MUST first idenify themselves, state what kind'a
organization they represent, and have positive ID once they arrive
at a reasonable hour picked by me. The only person allowed in my house
at any hour is my Savior Jesus Christ, and his father.

FootNote: I'm not try'in too be a hard person to deal with; as my only
intentions are to protect my family, my property, and my valuables.

Bruce333
October 8, 2006, 03:10 PM
I don't allow solictior's near my residenceJust how do you accomplish this? Keep the drawbridge over the moat raised? Not all of us have that option.

CornCod
October 8, 2006, 03:28 PM
Pest #1 appeared to me to be absolutely inexcusable, violating your personal space and touching you (in this case your shoes) without your permission. You might have been justified in boxing his ears.

Pests number #2 and #3 should not have infuriated you. I think that perhaps you were, understandably, feeling a little crabby due to the rudeness of #1.

There is an interesting trend in American society these days that people feel that they should live very isolated lives and that anyone that shows up on their doorstep unbidden is some kind of semi-criminal. As someone trained in the social sciences, I have been thinking a lot about this kind of "hermetically sealed" life people tend to like nowadays. I think some sociologists have touched on aspects of it. I don't condemn it, but I guess there are both negative and positive aspects to it.

I confess that once a week I go door-to-door leaving tracts promoting Lutheran Christianity as part of my church's evangelism program. When I do this and I run into people, I am extremely polite and ask people to forgive me for bothering them ect. I have "hit" a thousand homes and only a couple of people have been rude to me, although I am a big, wierd, scary looking brute.

gregthehand
October 8, 2006, 03:29 PM
Have you thought about contacting the local sheriff's office and asking if they let their deputies patrol private nieghborhoods in their personal cars? It may sound crazy but this is common practice here in TX. I know because when I was in Law Enforcement we did it all the time. Most guys would buy late 90's Crown Victorias and install a few lights, and a magnetic door decal. All you have to do then is post "No Solicitaion of Any Kind with out Approval of POA" signs on the entrances. That means if the cops see's people he does not know walking around with flyers, bang they're tresspassing. Also it really makes crooks want to think about robbing a 'hood that is patrolled reguarly by a cop that stay in that area. Also another big bonus is the kids don't drive really fast through the place either. We did this in private controlled streets as well as public. We just couldn't write tickets on the private ones. Anyway just food for thought.

carterbeauford
October 8, 2006, 03:35 PM
FootNote: I'm not try'in too be a hard person to deal with; as my only intentions are to protect my family, my property, and my valuables.

Nothing wrong with that, but I second the request on how exactly you accomplish this.

I have the advantage of living about 500' from the road in what might not appear to be an inhabited house (converted barn) and have never had anyone other than the pizza guy and the County Sherrif knock on my door. The pizza guy had the right address.

SigfanUSAF
October 8, 2006, 03:45 PM
FWIW, I have a 6 foot privacy fence around the rear perimeter of my property, and a 4 foot picket fence around the front. Both of my gates carry "no tresspassing/no solicitation" signs. When the simple "Did you notice the sign" doesn't remove them right away, a call to the police with a description is my next step. No, I have never followed through with tresspassing charges against a church, so long as they agree to never step foot on my property again. Use the law, and for those that get hostile, or the would be robber, I always have a chambered P220 in the small of my back, or in hand behind me.

garyk/nm
October 8, 2006, 03:46 PM
How about posting a "no solicitors" sign at the front gate, then call the PD and file a trespassing complaint if it is ignored?

Whitewolf 508
October 8, 2006, 04:00 PM
I had unwanted solicitors twice.

The first time I was living in the city and a person knocked on the door in the late afternoon. When I opened the door, he said he was selling magazines. I said I did not have any money and my wife had the checkbook at work. With that he reached over and patted my stomach saying"Doesn't look lie you have missed a meal." The Walther on his nose convinced him it was time to leave the building. I called the police and advised them. An officer came by and spoke with him. Turned out he was on parole for burglary.

The second time I was living in the country on a 1/2 mile long private road. A car pulled in my driveway and a man got out. He came to the door and insisted he was going to read the bible with me. He would not take no for an answer and tried to push in. My Lab-shepherd mix made a grab for his crotch. I only stopped him a fraction of an inch from his target. The man bolted from the door and went down the 7 steps without even touching them.

Since then..no more unwanted solicitors.:D

wdlsguy
October 8, 2006, 04:01 PM
How about posting a "no solicitors" sign at the front gate
Also make a habit of carrying a pocket pistol (e.g., a Keltec P3AT) whenever you are at home.

sgphoto
October 8, 2006, 04:50 PM
I have a two "No soliciting" signs posted at my driveway. If a person can read, the sign cannot be missed. With the exception of the neighborhood kids, who I've told they may knock on my door when selling their candy bars, the signs says it all.

When someone rings my doorbell, I don't go to the door, rather I open my office window and ask them what they want. Unless it's an emergency or Jesus (and He hasn't knocked yet), I ask them if they can read signs.

If they say yes, I ask them why the sign shouldn't apply to them.

If it's a religious group, I've often been told that God wanted them to talk with me about my soul.

I tell them that God just spoke to me and didn't mention anything about them coming by so apparently they have the wrong house. Jehovah's Witnesses’ are the worst and are often obnoxious at best!

If it's a solicitor who's gone past two "no soliciting" signs I stop them before they get a chance to deliver their sales talk and tell them that if they can't read and obey my signs, why should I think they would get anything else right.

When they sometimes ask if my dogs bite, I tell them, "Of course and I have the bodies buried in the backyard to prove it!" and I'm not smiling when I say it.

I don't care what you’re selling, whether it's magazines or salvation, if you see a "No soliciting" sign you'd best believe it. If you don't believe the signs, perhaps you'll believe the 12 gauge.

mainmech48
October 8, 2006, 05:32 PM
If the homeowner's association won't post the entrance as was suggested, you could post a "No Solicitors, Salesmen or Proselytizers. Trespassers will be prosecuted." sign on your fence. It works for me.

I also never answer my door or leave the house without at least my P-32 in my pocket. Having a cell phone or portable wireless landline handset on your person, if possible, isn't a bad idea either IMO. Ours works within 100' or so of the base unit and has a beltclip.

If a firm "no" and a request to leave are met with anything less than polite compliance, create some distance, dial "911" and prepare to repel boarders. Allowing a stranger who comes onto your property uninvited to walk right up on you may be "polite", but it's a courtesy you shouldn't extend under most circumstances. Personally, I'd much rather be seen as "rude" than "food".

another okie
October 8, 2006, 05:39 PM
"I don't feel that people are free to just come up, ring the hell out of my doorbell, wake up my baby, upset my dog, then try and sell me something I Don't want, refuse to listen to me decline their products/services, and then get agitated when I tell them I am not interested."

I know what you mean, but, well, they are free to do that. You are free not to answer the door. You are also free to unhook your doorbell and your telephone. If the baby is asleep, a note on the door saying that will keep out most solicitors.

wuchak
October 8, 2006, 05:41 PM
Hang a No Soliciting sign with a Beware of Dog sign right under it.

Fosbery
October 8, 2006, 05:42 PM
This is what landmines are for.

Chipperman
October 8, 2006, 05:48 PM
"Does you dog bite?"
"No"
"Nice doggy" pat pat CHOMP
"OW! I thought you said your dog didn't bite!"
"That is not my dog"

:D

Limeyfellow
October 8, 2006, 05:51 PM
How about posting a "no solicitors" sign at the front gate

That tends to work fine in most cases. The beware of dog warning also tends to be helpful. We rarely get people like that around here luckly apart from one or two lost people and those in cars that drive slowly down the road casing for a robbery that have been pretty much driven out the area by now.

c_yeager
October 8, 2006, 05:57 PM
If you live in a private community then you can get the association to put up some signs at the entrance barring solicitors. I would have them put up a phone number on the sign to seek permission (for girl scouts selling cookies, etc). If your community is entirely private (i.e. the government doesnt mantain your roads) then solicitors would be tresspassing as soon as they walked through the entrance.

Manedwolf
October 8, 2006, 06:18 PM
There is an interesting trend in American society these days that people feel that they should live very isolated lives and that anyone that shows up on their doorstep unbidden is some kind of semi-criminal. As someone trained in the social sciences, I have been thinking a lot about this kind of "hermetically sealed" life people tend to like nowadays. I think some sociologists have touched on aspects of it. I don't condemn it, but I guess there are both negative and positive aspects to it.

Um...Actually, that's just returning to our roots.

If a stranger rode up unexpected to someone's farmhouse way back when, they'd either be met with outright suspicion or a shotgun held in the owner's hand as they asked what they were all about.

Knowing your neighbors is one thing. But distrust of strangers is hardly unhealthy, and is pretty American, I think.

As for getting rid of religiousity sellers, there's some easy answers:

"Have YEW found Jesus?"
"What?! You lost him AGAIN?"
or
"Yes, I did! He was hiding behind the sofa. I think he went that way."

I also knew someone who had a little metal WWI practice finned bomb. If it was a saleman, they'd answer the door with that in their hand and not explain it or say a word about it, except if they asked, "Um...is that a bomb?" "Yes, it is! It's friendly.", and nothing more. They usually left quick. :D

Otherguy Overby
October 8, 2006, 06:20 PM
To get to my place in the Ozarks a person would have to drive over half a mile down a gravel county road. Then they have to turn onto a posted, private road and drive nearly another 3/8 mile to get to my driveway. There's another 1/4 mile to a solar powered gate in the woods where there's no view of the rest of my property. From there it's another 1/4 mile to the house.

Anyone coming to my door is a serious trespasser and I'm nearly always armed, often with a side arm and a long gun. BTW, I also have a backhoe... :what:

cedjunior
October 8, 2006, 06:30 PM
Back when I lived at a relatives house for a while I was home during the day (night shift) and got all the solicitors, including the spray cleaner guy who tried to invite himself in and pulled the same crap with cleaning my sneakers and all that. Hard to get rid of. Only had one LDS come to the door, cute girl my age so I couldn't really be mean, but when I told her I was Catholic and not interested I thought she was going to spit on me....

More disturbing though, is that at my apartment I live at now, 3 times in the last 2 months I've had people come to my door between 2 and 4 am asking for money. "I need a couple dollars because I'm out of gas"..... "I need a couple dollars because I came here to meet a friend, but I don't know which apartment he lives in, and I'm out of gas" and so on. I guess it was because each time my lights were the only ones still on in the apartment complex. I answered the door the first time, armed of course. But the other 2 times I just spoke through the door while looking through the peep hole and then going out to investigate after they were gone.

Manedwolf
October 8, 2006, 06:34 PM
More disturbing though, is that at my apartment I live at now, 3 times in the last 2 months I've had people come to my door between 2 and 4 am asking for money.

Bit of advice, when you pick an apartment complex, find one that does NOT participate in government subsidized housing.

It's not PC, but it's true. A lot of places put people "from the projects" in an upscale complex with government money, and crime goes WAY up.

Werewolf
October 8, 2006, 06:36 PM
Stopping magazine sellers, god squaders and the occasional politician soliciting your vote from knocking on your door is pretty near impossible.

But minimizing the amount of time you have to waste on them is actually pretty easy. Just open carry in your home.

A couple of times a month some annoying person knocks on my door. I come to the door, check the peep hole and then open it wide with a big ole grin on my face and a 1911 on my right side belt or hanging under my arm in a Galco shoulder holster.

The shoulder rig almost always evokes the query, "are you a policeman". A "no" answer takes them aback and most leave right then and there without another word. Some want to talk anyway in which case I tell them "not interested, please leave". They almost always do. At that point if they still don't leave I just turn away and shut the door in their face. Only once has someone not left at that point - a religious type trying to get our kids signed up for their Sunday School. Stood out on my porch for about 5 minutes with a shocked expression on their face. I finally had to open the door and tell them to leave or I'd be forced to call the cops on 'em for tresspassing.

The belt holster - surprisingly - evokes the policeman query way less often which means they get told to leave as soon as they start talking.

Only once has this not worked and that was with a guy running for the state legislature. He asked if I was a police officer and when I replied no said he was a 2nd amendment supporter too. We stood out on my porch and talked RKBA and guns for about an hour. I let him put an election sign up in my yard. Unfortunately he lost at the primary level.

So just wear your gun when you answer the door - cuts the BS time way, way down.

Ala Dan
October 8, 2006, 06:42 PM
Posting property is OK; but most of the time the high strung guru will only
ignore it. Hey a moat sounds like an excellent idea; but in my locale is
not an easy task to accomplish. I have been known too greet unwanted
guest with weapons drawn in their face. This helps too get their attention
real quick; and most will leave unannounced~!;)

Notice of my actions seems too have gotten a'round to other types
of solictors. Nowdays, (just last week Oct. 5th) someone tried to
steal my central AC unit, 'bout 4 o'clock in the morning. Just so
happens that my three landsharks ran 'em off; before I busted a
cap in their hind ends~!

twency
October 8, 2006, 07:29 PM
Be careful putting up a "Beware of Dog" sign if in fact you have a dog. It might be construed as proof that you knew your dog was dangerous, if the dog ever attacks someone.

IANAL, but I understand that generally speaking in PA (where I used to live), every dog gets "one free bite". In other words, if the owner doesn't have prior knowledge that the dog is dangerous, the first attack isn't proof of negligence on the part of the owner. However, a "Beware of Dog" sign showed that the owner knew the dog was dangerous, and failed to control it.

Not sure about the law elsewhere, but lawyers are always looking to get money for their clients somehow. Best not give them ammunition, if you can help it.
__________
-twency

This advice is guaranteed to be worth at least as much as you paid for it.

grislyatoms
October 8, 2006, 07:39 PM
How about a "Never mind the dog, BEWARE OF OWNER" sign, then?:D

gunrunner811
October 8, 2006, 07:45 PM
My doctor's office has a sign that says "Every third salesman will be shot, the second one just left."

Bullet Bob
October 8, 2006, 07:57 PM
Sounds like you need a different dog. Here's the great Cadi, giving her "who are you, and why are you getting close to my yard" look.

http://www.fototime.com/777F3ED18671E20/standard.jpg

She wouldn't leave the yard, but people usually asked before they entered the property:) .

Unfortunately, she died a while ago. Here's her replacement, Scout, at 3 months, practicing his stare:

http://www.fototime.com/0F1464033424997/standard.jpg

grislyatoms
October 8, 2006, 08:09 PM
Yep. Ears half way up, intent stare, weight forward, tail down.

I'd be asking permission, too.:cool:

Looks like Scout is going to be a big 'un, too. That left rear paw looks mighty large.

Hardtarget
October 8, 2006, 08:16 PM
I've not had much trouble at home...but at work we had droves of solicitors...even though we kept signs on the door. I threw several out,( litteraly..hands on :D ) and one time it came very close to a full fight. I've had several say they wern't soliciting, so I suggested, that while they were out walking around, maybe they should stop by the library and look up soliciting. Told them to use the grown-up, adult, big dictionary. They never seem to like me much. :D
So, I have real sympathy for your problem. I don't know a good way to stop it. :evil: garden hose?
Mark.

Sean Dempsey
October 8, 2006, 08:21 PM
well, Sam Fisher (my german shepherd) is only 3 months old. But I suspect when he gets bigger, he'll do alot of my talking for me. I just need to have him trained to defend in instict, but also show some aggression on command. I'd have to have a big dog that the salesmen/badguys just pet and he goes and lies down.

and on a side note, 2 of the 3 times in my story, I was in my fenced front yard letting the dog go potty, so I was sort of caught out in the open, literally.

quatin
October 8, 2006, 08:37 PM
I blame the marketing dillweed who invented solicitation sales/telemarketing. I've started to not hate the telemarketers and the door to door salesman, but the people they work for. They hire people with no experience and desperate for a job and teach them how to "pressure" people to buy products and maybe...just maybe they get a 10% cut. This is the impression I got after going to one of these seminars where they lure you in. Shows me to never go to a job interview when they won't even tell you what type of job it is on the phone! After lawyers, marketing majors are the next rung of evil :evil: .

Wiley
October 8, 2006, 08:45 PM
Look up an appropriate sign here: http://www.worldpath.net/~minstrel/hobosign.htm.

Post at the entrance to your property.

And for those who think they are doing 'good works' by leaving flyers and tracts on my porch: Thanks a bunch for making me have to pick up YOUR trash. :cuss:

hso
October 8, 2006, 08:53 PM
Put up a gate, post your property, call the police when you spot them.

For folks talking about assaulting, brandishing or clean'n guns - :rolleyes:

Guns aren't toys or props in a melodrama and shouldn't be used as such.

lamazza
October 8, 2006, 08:54 PM
In my area the door to door solicitors are far fewer than the phone creeps-Its almost impossible to take a nap on any day of the week -even Sundays!

lowracer
October 8, 2006, 09:03 PM
I sympathize with the OP. These pushy sales guys and religious fanatics are a problem. I'd add to that the college kids in that cult that makes them sell magazines or have to get points to go on a world trip or some other bullsh*t story.

We don't answer the door unless we recognize the person standing there (neighbor, family, mailman, etc.). Ignoring them makes them go away eventually. If they persist, a very loud "NOT INTERESTED - GO AWAY" usually does it. The trick is not to get caught on the porch while the dog's pooping in the front yard. We let our dog poop in the fenced back yard.

My wife's especially good at this now. She won't open that door for any stranger. She's got a holstered 9mm next to the chair where she's usually nursing our 2month old son. Round in the pipe and a full mag, should any stranger not understand GO AWAY and foolishly try to get in the house. The 9mm is for her to fight her way to the 12 guage.

If I'm outside in the yard and an unwelcome stranger approaches, a firm STOP! will usually result in a halt. I'm a 6 foot five 240lb male with a shaved head, talk about intimidating. If they want to talk, simply say GO AWAY and they'll get the idea. I never converse about the subject they want to converse about. It's always GO AWAY or STOP.

You don't have to clear leather or brandish a gun for this to work, a simple motion of the hand to the hip as if you're about to draw, is pretty well understood. Then if you need to draw (if they present a real life threat, such as by drawing a knife or by having their buddies jump out of the bushes), your hand is already there.

Kharn
October 8, 2006, 09:33 PM
Does anyone use an intercom system to screen visitors? I was thinking one that hooked into my phone system would be pretty nice (so I could just pick up any phone in the house and tell'em I'm not interested in buying whatever they're selling).

Kharn

txgho1911
October 8, 2006, 09:43 PM
The college kids selling magazines are sometimes working under duress and not allways due to a stupid choice.

Most others I have dealt with get a chance to tell me what they want. 2-5 seconds of spiel is enough to answer not interested. Also an instruction to leave my yard and do it RFN.

The pushy fellow who never answers the question and still trying to warm my heart with small talk first one handshake or if that doesn't take he thinks I expect a fancy hood handshake. He is the one I would like to answer the door with a long arm in hand.

I am guessing everyone knocking at my door is just phishing and taking a peek in the house.

taliv
October 8, 2006, 10:24 PM
sean, the first thing i noticed about your anecdotes was that they usually involved a pooping dog. you could solve 2/3rds of your problem by just not letting your dog poop. he'll get bigger faster that way, too. then he can handle the other 1/3rd.


or just remain calm, friendly and polite, and say no. i think i wouldn't have let someone polish my shoes. of course, i wear sandals mostly, but that's still pretty odd.

buck00
October 8, 2006, 10:37 PM
The era of the welcome door to door salesman is over. No one is welcome to my front door (selling things) unless its the neighborhood girl scouts selling cookies.


In a scenario where a shady solicitor is trying to intimidate you, won't take no for an answer, or is getting visibly "agitated", I think pepper spray would be a better tactic than pulling steel on them. It would neutralize them in a nonlethal manner and give you a little separation to call 911.

heypete
October 9, 2006, 02:42 AM
I just moved from a nice little town in the San Francisco suburbs where it's illegal to solicit to Tucson, AZ, where it seems to be perfectly legal to do so.

Of course, my first-floor apartment right next to the parking lot seems to get a fair bit of attention. I've had two young individuals (probably 13-15) come by soliciting something (I can never understand their mumbles, though some research online indicates they were selling magazines, possibly scamming), in exchange for which they (not me!) will get a trip to Europe. They inevitably ask if I've been to Europe (I have), to which I reply that it's none of their business.

The first individual, a young man, left upon being told I was not interested.

The second, a mid-teenage girl, refused to believe that I wouldn't get off the phone (I was on the phone with my Class III dealer arranging to purchase a Gem-Tech suppressor, and possibly a Vector Uzi :evil: ) to help her out. I asked her sternly to leave, and closed (and locked) the door on her surprised face.

I really need to get a No Solicitors sign, or take to answering the door with my XD-45 on my hip.

Everyone calling at my door will get a pleasant "Hello!", but my responses from there depend on their purpose. Solicitors will be politely asked to leave, and if they don't, they'll be unpolitely asked to leave. Other individuals may have different responses, depending on their nature.

thexrayboy
October 9, 2006, 03:03 AM
Options to get rid of unwanted solicitors vary. However one option to keep in mind could go something like this. For the god squaders if you are sure they are not a threat. If seen coming from a distance strip down to your skivvies and meet them in the driveway with a big stupid grin. Consider holding a large container of personal lubricant. This should give them pause to consider. If they make it to the door meet them at the door buck naked holding a large knife and ask if they would like to come in and assist you as you were preparing to sacrifice a goat to Beelzebub. They will probably leave skid marks as they leave.

Diamondback6
October 9, 2006, 03:12 AM
I have several responses I use, depending on the situation. And I always have my cellphone in hand, ready to flip open to summon police for the trespasser.

1. The Politician: "Your kind aren't welcome here. You are instructed to leave at once."
2. The Shi'a Baptist*/SB-Act-Alike: "My faith is between me and my Creator, and is none of your concern. Leave at once."
3. The Kid Selling ___: "Young lady/man, we just aren't interested. Don't give up, maybe you'll hit a big one with somebody else on the block. Have a nice day..." I have a soft spot toward kids, what can I say.
4. The Salesman: "We're not interested. You are instructed to leave. Please do so at once."
5. The Already Escalated to Belligerent Contact (escalated from one of the above): "I have the police on speed-dial; you are instructed to leave before I call you in for trespass, harassment and intimidation along with whatever other charges may fit. Ya got 'til count of three. *dialing 9* One... *dialing 1* Two... *dialing 1* Three. (If not gone or leaving yet) *SEND key*

Alternatively, depending on class of belligerent or if it's merely an obnoxious twerp, I may fake the call just by opening the phone and hitting some random buttons. "Hello, I'm at XXXX and I'm being threatened by a trespasser. You'll have an officer right over? Great, thanks."

*A bow of the scaly head to our own LawDog for this one.

yongxingfreesty
October 9, 2006, 03:35 AM
if you think you have it bad, wait til you hear my stories. i live in houston, tx and i believe most of the nola evacuees are here. they roam the streets at night and in my neighborhood screaming and joking.

it takes them forever to cross the street and when i honk at them they stick the middle finger. i approach one of them and ask them what was that for and he said he wanted to fight me. HAHA. i said no and drove off. when will these people learn?

another time, im pumping gas at about midnight coming home from school.
i ve got these two nolas who ask me for 20 bucks to fill their tank. i told them that i have 1 dollar and they say "looks like you need it more than me." i cursed them out because i had protection of 3 guys in the car with CHLs behind the dark tint. luckily the guys didnt do anything and started asking other people at the gas station. damnit, i hate these people.

zoom6zoom
October 9, 2006, 10:21 AM
I think I need one of these doormats.
http://www.coastaldecorshop.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/Go%20Away-Red.jpg

http://www.coastaldecorshop.com/page/C/PROD/c4605

wuchak
October 9, 2006, 10:30 AM
In my area the door to door solicitors are far fewer than the phone creeps-Its almost impossible to take a nap on any day of the week -even Sundays!

You can get rid of the majority of those calls by signing up for the national do not call registry. We signed up for it and calls dropped from multiple each day to about one a month.
https://www.donotcall.gov/default.aspx

FAQ's http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/dncalrt.htm

Keith Wheeler
October 9, 2006, 10:43 AM
#2 - Group of people from unnamed church (not LDS) came to my door to ask if I "Believe we are living in the last days". Very cult-ish. I told them flat out "no, I do not."

Wearing a Star of David does wonders in driving off these folks. Kind of like crucifixes and vampires... :D


(I was on the phone with my Class III dealer arranging to purchase a Gem-Tech suppressor, and possibly a Vector Uzi )

Excellent reason to leave Frisco for Arizona!

SteveS
October 9, 2006, 11:02 AM
Never had too much of a problem. The no soliciting sign seems to stop the majority. Otherwise, I just look out the window and decide if I want to answer the door. Having had to sell stuff when I was in Boy Scouts, I will usually open the door for kids selling stuff. If my wife is home alone, she won't answer the door at all, unless it is someone that she knows.

ilbob
October 9, 2006, 11:14 AM
I think a simple sign will stop most of them.

I think my dad used to like the LDS and Jehovah's Witnesses that came by from time to time. He would try to convert them. He was a preacher and did not think highly of such cults, and was well versed in the bible, and was generally able to stand toe to toe with them in any discussion they might chose to engage in.

nucstl1
October 9, 2006, 11:37 AM
http://webpages.charter.net/trussell/pictures/beware%20of%20owner%208x10Gun.jpg

I work from home and regulary open carry. I had a scruffy guy come to my door last year selling security systems. When he saw the .45 on my hip, he understood that I had home protection covered and moved on.

rbernie
October 9, 2006, 11:38 AM
I usually let uninvited visitors make the mistake of ringing the doorbell. It drives the dogs INSANE. When the UIG (UnInvitedGuest) hears multiple dogs snarling and barking, most of 'em stumble back down the front steps as fast as they can backpedal. They certainly don't get belligerent with me, since they can hear hundreds of pounds of canine fury right behind the door.

The local kids selling fundraiser stuff know better (our dogs are oversized lapdogs and only the sound of the doorbell drives them crazy). I make a point of rewarding the sprog's willingness to put down the Nintendo and actually go door-to-door with a small order.

p35
October 9, 2006, 11:38 AM
I had a couple JWs come by last week. When they started trying to tell me about their tract about the end of the world, I said "Lady, I'm a Buddhist. I don't believe in any of that nonsense." Got a big :what:. Then she said something about how they respect other religions, and I said "fine" and shut the door.

I guess that's one way to shut them up.

flieger
October 9, 2006, 12:04 PM
Speaking as one who had his handguns stolen in a burglary years ago, I find the idea of letting the UIG know you have firearms a bad one.

When I was burgled, the thief took the handguns and only the handguns, bypassing cameras and even the large "loose change" jar.

The responding officer informed me that in 90% of such cases, the thief knew in advance that guns were on the premises.

So no, I don't have any guns long or short. Not me. Just be sure to wear your Kevlar when you break into my home...

ChopperKen
October 9, 2006, 12:15 PM
I've found that women telemarketers hang up don't call back if you use your best uncle pervy voice and ask them what color panties their wearing:D ...
The guys hang up even faster!:evil:
I used to have a problem with the JW waking me up(2nd shift at the time)
even after putting up signs.
One Saturday morning I made a trip on my Harley to their Kingdom hall during service,
Walked up the isle and asked very loudly who was the a$$#@!& that kept
sending them over to my house.
Never had a problem after that.

btsyshsbnd
October 9, 2006, 12:56 PM
whenever I have uninvited "guests" come to my porch to try and sell me something, be it merchandise or religion I always tell them they strike me as a sharp person who could probably use some extra money, and have they ever heard of amway? I'm starting a meeting in a few minutes and invite them in. In 20 yrs I've never had anyone take me up on my invite.

TallPine
October 9, 2006, 01:18 PM
We don't really have that much trouble here .... just too remote I guess.

We did have the JW's come by once, which really surprised me. I just stood on my deck with my sidearm plainly visible and told them I wasn't interested. They haven't been back ;)

The "Hoots" came by a few times selling meat and produce. We actually bought some stuff from them, but it is not exactly cheap and they always seem to stop by the day after we come back from shopping in town.

Nevertheless, I treat any stranger as suspicious. I don't open the door directly, but either go out as soon as I hear a vehicle coming up our long drive, greeting them before they get to the house, or I go out a door on the far side and come around the corner of the house.

Only had to run off one bunch in 3.5 yrs ... a couple guys who described themselves as friends of our infamous ex-neighbor, whereupon I promptly told them to get the **** off my land. It took a few minutes of back and forth before they got the message and left. I almost drew on them to make the point; I just happened to be wearing a wool shirt untucked at that time.

But 99% of the time I recognize the vehicle and there is no problem.

entropy
October 9, 2006, 01:33 PM
You're LDS and you're complaining about unwanted solicitors?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/mosinfan/violin.gif

What goes around comes around. Karmic Law in action.

Sean Dempsey
October 9, 2006, 01:38 PM
entropy - I am not LDS, I am not a member of any religion. I pointed out that the missionaries who came by were non-LDS, since living in Southern Utah, there's a high percentage of LDS people where I live. "missionary" = LDS, so around here you have to specify if it's another religion.

Mormon missionaries, around here at least, I haven't had a problem with. I think they figure since my house literally borders a mormon church, if I want to ask questions, I know where to go.

entropy
October 9, 2006, 02:13 PM
Mea Culpa. :o Still I think it's kind of ironic, a largely LDS community having to deal with solicitors.

Sean Dempsey
October 9, 2006, 02:22 PM
no problem.


To bring this around back towards my original topic: I am going to get some of those standard "no solicitors" signs and put them on my front wall and door.

Also, I will +1 the idea of not broadcasting your weaponry. I have a choice, either have people violate me/my home without knowing I am armed, or they KNOW I am armed (via my advertising it) and then attack appropriatley.

I'd rather surprise more badguys with a gun, then have less badguys plan their attack around my gun. (if that makes sense). Same with my dog. If they know a huge german shepherd is gonna greet them when I'm out of town, they arrive with hotdogs, pepper spray, or rat-poison put in raw hamburger. If they don't know theres a dog, hopefully they are startled enough to rethink their choice of career that night.

Correia
October 9, 2006, 02:42 PM
Mormon missionaries should just leave if you tell them you're not interested. That is what they are supposed to do. They aren't supposed to harrass you or cause any trouble. Sadly we've got our dumbasses, like every other single organization in the history of the world.

And yes, we're a cult of 12 million people. :rolleyes:

Look guys, I've been there, done that, on both sides of this fence. The "god squad" people are doing what they think they are supposed to do. And yes, some of them are rude morons. Somehow doofuses manage to sneak into every single group.

And for the answer the door naked, show them a gun, tube of KY, whatever, those things usually made me laugh and broke up the monotony. I had a great time. I loved people with senses of humor. :)

As soon as somebody said they weren't interested, I said thanks for your time, and boogied out of there.

I can't speak for the other religious types, but the Mormons are there because they're trying to do what they think they are supposed to do. For most of us who choose to do that kind of thing, we go someplace far from home for 2 years, usually from the age of 19-21. We aren't allowed to do pretty much anything fun. One day off a week to do laundry/run errands, etc. The rest of the time you work/teach/find people to teach. No dating. No TV. No non-church music. Nada.

Now the door to door stuff is called tracting. Tracting sucks. The main reason that LDS missionaries tract is because there currently isn't ANYTHING else more effective to do. But it beats twiddling your thumbs, and for most of us, we went on a mission because we wanted to work. And occasionally, seldomly, you actually find somebody who wants you to teach them.

It has been 10 years since I've gotten home from mine. It was tough. I got shot at, attacked by dogs, chased by drug dealers, and hit by a car. A lot of times it sucked. But I had fun.

If you are treated rudely by LDS missionaries, and they don't leave when you say you aren't interested, or they are just jerks, or whatever, and I'm dead serious here, send me a PM with your town, general location (neighborhood will do) and the date, and I'll take care of it. I will contact their mission president and let him know that his Elders are setting a bad example.

But please, make sure they are Mormons first. :) I found that about 95% of the time when somebody was really ticked off at us they were thinking about a different religion. (for example, the guy who posted above about the cute girl his age who spat on him when he said he was Catholic. News flash. If she was by herself, then she wasn't a Mormon. Mormons never work alone).

Wow, this is massively off topic. I'm not setting a very moderatorial example here. Sorry.

djpullen
October 9, 2006, 03:09 PM
Reminds me of a good joke. It kinda needs to be a visual one though.

You know why Jehovah's witnesses are so flat chested?

Give a chest high shoving motion and say

Get off my porch!

rtroha
October 9, 2006, 03:16 PM
Depending on where you live, answering the door with a gun visible can be cause for arrest. Here's one incident from Akron, Ohio.



WOMAN POINTS FIREARM AT SALESPERSON, POLICE SAY

Source: Andale Gross, Beacon Journal staff writer
A West Akron woman is accused of pointing a gun at a saleswoman who knocked on her door. Police say Kelly Maurer scared the solicitor, but Maurer says she wasn't threatening anyone and only took the loaded 9 mm to the door because she was afraid for her safety. Maurer was charged with misdemeanor aggravated menacing for the encounter Thursday at her home in the 1200 block of West Sunsetview Drive. She also faces a misdemeanor child endangering charge because police say they

Published on August 28, 2004, Page B4, Akron Beacon Journal (OH)


I can't show you the whole article because they want $2.95, but I remember when this happened. Her husband was out of town and she was alone with her baby.

The Guy
October 9, 2006, 03:41 PM
My wife has her number in the book under a ficticious name. Her phone company set it up for her that way upon her request. The billing and such all comes in her name, but any "lists" and the phone book all have the "funny" name attached. So when ever the call for "Mr./Mrs. Campe" comes in, she knows its a B.S. type call.

When she is in a good mood, the instant reply is "Please take my name off your call list." When she is in a foul mood, it can get very nasty indeed, but the bright side is that it really gives her a good vent for her anger. The sales people are always suprised when she knows they are trying to sell before the speil gets out of their mouth.:evil:

Deanimator
October 9, 2006, 04:19 PM
I never answer the front door without my Chief's Special in my pocket. I enjoy taunting Nazis on usenet and have gotten quite a few [impotent] threats.

One day last year I was fixing dinner or something early one evening when my doorbell rang. I almost NEVER get unannounced guests, so I put the Model 36 in my hip pocket and walked out my apartment door. Halfway to the lobby, I was confronted by the crazy woman who had previously berated me for taking her clothes out of the washer after she'd left them there for over an hour after they were finished. She started screeching, "Call the police, call the police, call the police!" I asked her, "Why?" She just kept babbling to call the police and I kept asking why. She finally stopped gibbering long enough to tell me that there was a guy ringing all of the doorbells, trying to "social engineer" his way in with a BS story about wanting to see somebody who didn't actually live in the building. I walked around the corner, and sure enough, there was a "Meth-Billy" looking guy standing in the lobby.

I went back into my apartment, called the cops, and waited for them to show up. While I wouldn't entrust my life to ANY cops or 911, the Rocky River cops are pretty good about response time. When I came back out to check, the guy was gone. A few minutes later, the cops showed up. I explained what had happened, and pointed them in the direction of the nutcase, since she'd talked to the guy and I hadn't. They walked around, looking for the guy. They didn't find him on the property, and I never saw him again. Nobody, cops or dingaling, were the wiser that I was packing heat.

As far as telemarketers go, I never answer the phone anyway, screening all my calls via answering machine. Back when I did answer the phone, I got a call from a girl selling magazine subscription. Without hearing her speil, I told her, "You don't have anything I want." Surprised, she said, "But you haven't even heard what magazines we have!" I told her, "I already know you don't have what I want." "What magazines do you want?" she said, with annoying perkiness.
"Do you have International Defense Review?"
"No."
"Do you have Jane's Defense Monthly?"
No."
Do you have Jane's Defense Weekly?"
"No."
"Do you have Armies and Nations?"
"No."
"Do you have Soldat und Teknik?"
"No."
"Do you have Red Star, the magazine of the Red Army?"
"No."
"See, I told you you don't have any magazines I want."
"We have Field and Stream..."
"<click>"

Exmasonite
October 9, 2006, 04:28 PM
Usually, if i'm inside, i never open the door. I explain that my dogs are rather aggressive (as they're barking their heads off).

I've debated making jokes like,

"Sir/ma'am, when were you last vaccinated for TB and airborne herpes? i'm under quarantine and the health department says i shouldn't open the door to anybody unless the person is current."

If i'm outside (caught doing lawn work, which i'll say almost NEVER happens b/c if i see a stranger, i head for the house), there are a couple of thoughts...

On a couple of occasions, i act all interested in what they're saying and then say, "Wait!! let me go get my fiance. she's really gonna want to hear this." At which point I go inside, close and lock the door and let the dogs do the talking.

I've also debated letting one of the dogs out "accidentally" (they're actually pretty friendly, just rather forceful) and yelling, "Oh no! he's loose... RUN!" My dogs will think it's a game and chase the person but i'll be able to call them back.

i definitely recommend the big dog.

NineseveN
October 9, 2006, 04:40 PM
Wow, this is massively off topic. I'm not setting a very moderatorial example here. Sorry.


Actually, I think it was a rather good post.

sarge83
October 9, 2006, 05:09 PM
My wife and I moved out in the boonies in 2001, only neighbor for miles around is her Mom. We moved on a Wednesday and on Saturday morning I swear the door bell was ringing and the JW were at it. She answered the door and they started their pitch. She stopped them and asked if they saw the sign on the road coming up the mountain? Yes. What did it say? No Trespassing. Believe it or not that applies to YOU, leave, don't come back and don't bother my mother next door either! Doors slams in their faces and they walk off mumbling.

STAGE 2
October 9, 2006, 05:11 PM
We don't get very many door to door people in my neighborhood at all. However when the rare one does show up its usually on a saturday afternoon when I'm out washing the car/doing yard work etc.

The best preventative for an unwanted salesman is a water hose with a good spray nozzle and a good amount of water pressure. :D Yes I have used it and yes it works.

I had some guy peddling some wonder cleaner walking around with a toothbrush and a bottle. He stopped and before he even began his sell, I told him thanks but not interested. I started to go back to washing the car and he just didn't take no for an answer. He pleaded with me to let him take some of the stains off my driveway and I told him thanks but no. Well he kept on and started to unscrew the cap and switched over to a sterner tone and told him not to poor any of his crap on my driveway. He told me that it was going to be fine, biodegradable and all that stuff, and started to pour it.

Well, I was mildly ticked, reached for my deep concealment water hose, cleared squeege and had a nice long stream center of mass.

Needless to say he wasn't too thrilled. A couple of other neighbors saw what happened and told the guy he wasn't going to make a sale anywhere on our street that day.

I'm not suggesting that every stranger at the door should be met with a stream of water. I was just a singular event on a day where everything sort of fell into place.

vynx
October 9, 2006, 05:38 PM
You say part of your front yard is fenced 3 foot high - fence the rest!

I have a 6 ft fence around the back and side yard and a 3 1/2 footer around the front - I usually hang an open padlock thru the front gate - no one comes into my yard - it helps to put a dog bowl by the front porch too.

I'm thinking of getting a beware of dog sign for insurance/lawsuit purposes but since I have bassets its not really necessary.

Otherwise I'd have real estate agents knocking on my door every day not to mention those guys that get hired to stick flyers in your door jam - now all that junk gets left by the gate. I've seen the kids who sell candy being dropped off by the van (this is a scam you know) and they knock on every door on the street but they don't come thru my gate.

No missionaries ever - although the LDS that I've met in the past (previous residences) were always super polite and nice --- now if a thief was smart he'd canvass the neighborhood wearing a white short sleeve shirt and riding a bicycle!

p35
October 9, 2006, 06:06 PM
Correia-

Nothing wrong with your post IMHO. I have to ask, though: why are they called "Elders"? It always struck me as odd to see some kid who's barely old enough to shave with a badge that says "Elder". Would that mean the "youngers" are the ones still in diapers?

Also, Tallpine-
What's a "Hoot"?

Correia
October 9, 2006, 06:24 PM
It isn't the age, it is the office. Mormons don't have a paid clergy. Rather, all men hold the priesthood.

I used to love when I would be debating a Pastor/Priest/Deacon/etc. and they would read my name tag and I would say that I outranked them. :D (but like I said, I had a sense of humor).

Sawdust
October 9, 2006, 06:36 PM
NineseveN sez:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Correia
Wow, this is massively off topic. I'm not setting a very moderatorial example here. Sorry.



Actually, I think it was a rather good post.


Brown-noser. :neener:

Sawdust

loandr.
October 9, 2006, 07:13 PM
2 tiers of Chain Link Fencing and almost 500 lbs. of puppy with signs accordingly placed make certain we have NO unannounced visitors period:what: . HECK its tough enough for me to get inside the perimeter;)

LD

ReidWrench
October 9, 2006, 08:19 PM
Keeping them away is easy enough but it requires an entire " system" and unfortunately , a change of venue is in order . What I have devised is much akin to others mentioned above . A 100 yard guantlet from the front gate to the house manned by 3 GSD's and a Blue Heeler . When I arrive home the security detail runs down to check me out , every night .

On the front gate are the posted signs , but at your feet you will find thousands of rounds a spent brass of every shape and size covering the entire driveway entrance . At first glance it looks like gravel , but it offsets well on pure white caliche .

We have had but two ignore the postings take the chain off , open the gate and make it all the way to the house . Both were out for my soul . One rolled the window down about a half inch as the GSD's took positions at each door and screamed at the house DO THEY BITE ??? The wife yelled back " YES !!" , and went back inside . I trust they had left the gate open when they drove in , or they would still be there when I got home .

For #2 The security detail was locked up in the backyard but I was outside as they pulled up , there was a tire cross closeby and on impulse I picked it up , walked over and started "taking" the wheel nuts off the RF wheel of the car . It was for 2 ton wheels , but they couldnt tell from over there . Got all freaked out WHATAREYOUDOINGTOMYCAR !!! It aint your car no more if ya intend on leaving it here much longer . They peeled their pious patoots outta there .

TallPine
October 9, 2006, 08:36 PM
Also, Tallpine-
What's a "Hoot"?

Hutterites. Sort of like Amish except they use modern equipment. Live in colonies which are communal farms. The men dress in black pants and suspenders on the hottest summer days. Speak with a German accent, and I guess members of some colonies speak no english at all.

Il Duca
October 9, 2006, 09:01 PM
If I were caught in the open when my dog was pooping, she would pinch it off and give chase. And come on guys, are the JW cracks really necessary? We're not all pushy. :)

ChopperKen
October 9, 2006, 09:16 PM
Il Duca, I only had a prob. with JW because I worked 2nd shift.
That and they wouldn't stop coming over Early when told not to bother me. And the signs.
Other than that if they had come over after noon I wouldn't have had a problem talking too them...
Telemarketers on the other hand call all week:cuss:

Il Duca
October 9, 2006, 09:39 PM
I meant that as more of a good natured prod and I completely understand. Every now and then the Mormons wake US up too.

4D5
October 9, 2006, 11:23 PM
Well I just peek thru the curtain on the front door. If it's an UIG, I walk away, unless I feel like screwing with them.

Now my brother :D

Had a rash of JW showing up at his door and he finally had enough so he put a stop to it, in fact for the whole neighborhood.

Well they show up, he answers (he already knows they are JW). They start their sermon, he says just a minute, do you all expect to meet Johava some day? they reply yes we do, he says just a minute then. Goes and gets the O/U, comes back to the door, cracks it open and asks in a most unassuming pleasant voice well which one of you would like to meet Johava first :what: He said they almost broke out in a run. The block must have been black balled because they haven't been back to the neighborhood since :)

c_yeager
October 10, 2006, 01:55 AM
I blame the marketing dillweed who invented solicitation sales/telemarketing. I've started to not hate the telemarketers and the door to door salesman, but the people they work for. They hire people with no experience and desperate for a job and teach them how to "pressure" people to buy products and maybe...just maybe they get a 10% cut.

I suspect that your going to have to travel to a time before the birth of Christ if you want to nail the guy that invested door to door sales.

DBR
October 10, 2006, 02:08 AM
We have a 1400' driveway. About 200' from the street is a flourescent green "no traspassing" sign that sites the trespassing statute: "6mo in jail, $250.00 fine for first offense". In my state illegal trespass can be reported up to 60 days after the offense. It does not have to be witnessed by LEO. There is a second identical sign about 600' from the street.

Very few uninvited people ignore those signs. The few people who have shown up without some legitimate purpose were immediately ordered off the property and told to call and make an appointment before they return. This recently included the town appraisers who never returned.

I am on the "do not call list" and have filed three complaints. It seems to work. My phone is always on "answer machine" with the ring turned off. I always return legitimate calls promptly. I am not pavlov's dog. I do not respond to a bell ring. My Wife's phone is our public phone and unsolicited sales calls result in an immedialte hangup.

We feel very comfortable being extremely rude (not threating or obscene) to anyone who violates our privacy.

I keep a digital camera next to the door and the first thing I do if there is a strange person at the door or in the parking area is take several pictures of them making it obvious I am taking the pictures. I think this is a good prevention measure against latter problems.

Sound paranoid? I don't think so. We have the right to control our property and our privacy. I would much rather discourage a future problem than confront it. At this point in our lives we really don't care who we offend.

We are in the middle of 200 acres in semi-rural Vermont so some things that are normal in the suburbs are not so normal here.

NineseveN
October 10, 2006, 02:26 AM
Brown-noser.

Sawdust

He, he owns a gun store, of course I want to be on his good side! :D

Sheldon J
October 10, 2006, 12:34 PM
I do not want you on my property.
If I want to buy something I will go and buy it at a store.
If I cannot buy it at a store then I will go on-line or call on the phone.
You will not be welcomed.
You will not be greeted kindly.
You will not be allowed access to my home or my precious time so do not ask.
If I have to repeat myself when I say I am not interested please leave, I will get angry and order you off my land just before I dial 911 to have you arrested for trespass. :cuss:

The only exception to these rules are Girl Scouts selling cookies (love the Somores) Boy Scouts selling Popcorn (they have the best microwave) and Kids with enough initiative to get out and go door to door raising money for a school project. PERIOD

#shooter
October 10, 2006, 01:00 PM
For entertainment value and a little satisfaction watch Secondhand Lions. They do what you wish to do. :)

mpmarty
October 10, 2006, 01:39 PM
We live in Rural Oregon. My driveway is half a mile up a mountain. I have PIR detectors spotted in trees along the driveway and as a person or vehicle moves up the driveway they trigger a series of warning tones in the alarm modules in our dining room and bedroom. At each sensor the number and frequency of the alarm tones in the house increase. My dogs ignore the first two then go on full alert long before anyone can even see our home. All the windows are facing down the driveway, are tripple glazed and dark tinted in hot weather and they clear to nearly zero tint when cold. We have firearms in every room of the house and since it's over 3600 sq ft on one level that's a good thing. We have never had a missionary, god squad, sales person or any other kind of soliciter come to our door, however we have had a couple of "I'm lost can you tell me where so and so lives?" come all the way up the mountain. They are told we are only watching the house for the owners and don't know anybody in the valley below us and order them to leave immediately. By the way, all the time the "lost souls" are in sight of the house they see me with my mossberg persuader pointed down and my wife on the porch with her Browning over/under pointed up. Seems to work darn well for us.

Axman
October 10, 2006, 01:56 PM
Sheldon, what about those pesky beggars that come around every October looking for hand outs all while in disguise? TRICK OR TREAT!!!!:D

Just_a_dude_with_a_gun
October 10, 2006, 02:57 PM
I have had many a "tresspassers" or streetside annoyance.

Last weekend, I was out in front of my apt. building having a smoke (as I no longer smoke inside) and there was a 40-ish couple with two children standing around, ringingthe buzzer to every apartment sequentially.

I asked them if they needed help, and then I saw it.... the Watchtower! I told them, no I did not want one, they shouldn't be trying to sell anything buzzer to buzzer, as people will just hang up on them anyway. They left, but 10 minutes later they got to my buzzer, and I told her so, and hung up.

I'm an understanding fella, and to each his own, but I do not care for the witnesses much.
I don't really like anyone that will typically only associate with people exactly like them, unless they trying to MAKE someone else exactly like them.

'The Elders' approached me once while I lived in Boston. It wasn't in a nice area, so I kindly declined to speak faith with them, and told them they ought to go elsewhere for their own good. I sent them to Simmons College, which is all girls. :)

Years ago a guy in backhoe pulled it onto my mom's lawn, got out, knocked on the door and started to show her paperwork ordering him to dig up the yard... and all he could say in response to her refusal was "Jorge no speak de inglish" . The rest of the crew showed up later and told him it was the next house over that needed to be connected to the town sewer... LOL

GungHo
October 10, 2006, 04:26 PM
I don't answer the door except to hollar "I ain't buying any, I'm a Buddhist, and I don't want to get involved" and I ignore people who approach me except to give them a once over. That seems to work for me. (Obviously, if it was someone who was bleeding all over the place, I'd call 911 for them, but they don't gotta come inside for me to do that... I'm not uncharitable, but I just bought that rug!).

As a result, I don't usually get bothered by beggars downtown, not more than the first time around, anyway. My windows don't get washed serruptitiously. I only get "the bucket" flashed at me once. My coworkers get hassled a lot because they invite attention and respond.

I've only been followed onto my property once, and whatever the guy was up to, he stopped when I looked at him askance.

I've had a few persistant LDS kids at one time who bugged a lot of folks in the neighborhood, and I mentioned it to some LDS folks I know at work and it stopped.

You don't have to brandish or act like you're going to start a fight to get people to go away. Just don't be a pushover and don't give/attract undue attention. And, maybe leave that fancy watch at home.

mindwip
October 10, 2006, 05:02 PM
I live in a wall community, with 513 homes, mostly couples with kids or "older" couples.

Well the only Solicitor i like are ones selling food, i love girlscouts, and there cookies and kids from there school selling chocolate bars. I remember when i was a kid and i went door to door selling that stuff. And most poeple in our area buy the stuff to help the kids.

The only ones i hate are the religious ones, trying to convert you, AND they come at 10 in the morning on sat. Now i just tell them no thanks and close the door or i tell them i dont want to join there religion becuase it is the wrong one, with over what 1,000 religions most claiming there the "one", chances are those at my door are in the wrong religion.

Where we live it is basicly imposable to trespass duo to the fact your property starts at your door. And i cant put up a no soliciting sign becuase i want my food.

IF they get pushy i would call the cops,

The Deer Hunter
October 10, 2006, 05:07 PM
If i Had alot of traveling salesmen (which i do not) i would bring some sort of weapon with me so they know i mean business. Its not illegal to be holding a gun on your property.

secamp32
October 10, 2006, 05:55 PM
The door only gets opened enough to talk thru. Anyone other than a neighbor gets 15 seconds to explain what they want before the door closes. I usually have to close the door on them mid sentence. i do the same to telephone saleman. I had one call me back and tell me how rude I was to hang up on her. I told her she was rude to waste my time then I hung up again.

tubeshooter
October 10, 2006, 06:34 PM
I've been reading the responses, and I think the "No soliciting (etc.)" signs are a good way to go.

That being said, I'm surprised at the amount of people that don't seem to want to give anybody uninvited what would seem to most to be common courtesy. If a solicitor ignores your sign knowing full well they are soliciting, that's one thing... but maybe somebody just needs some help. It happens.


Now I'm definitely not saying to put yourself in peril. If you'd rather do the initial correspondence through the door/intercom, that seems wise. But some of the stances in the thread just seem overboard. And then there is a footnote about an exception for "kids", like a kid would never set you up or case your place for an adult (rare but theoretically possible)... and, conversely, anybody over driving age can't possibly mean anything but trouble. Just seems a little paranoid to me. I guess some feel adults don't deserve the common courtesy you might give a boy/girl scout. But if you've gone to the trouble to live 1/2 mile from the road, maybe it fits right in with your M.O., I dunno (which is fine, btw).


Anyhow, to each his own. But you can't help but laugh when some of these same people want to wonder why the non-shooting public generally fears us, with the whole "happen to be cleaning a gun" when a visitor drops by kind of business. Just a thought. IMO, it would be better for all involved to just bulldoze through the crap and put up an "I don't trust anybody, stay away, enter at your own risk" sign or some such. I bet that would be much, much more effective than "No solicitors".

Flopsy
October 10, 2006, 07:01 PM
I'm in rural PA, and most people generally know that they simply can't solicit in our neighborhoods. 9 out of 10 have at least a shotgun in the house and someone who's been shooting it since they were 8.

Otherguy Overby
October 10, 2006, 07:01 PM
tubeshooter:

Anyhow, to each his own. But you can't help but laugh when some of these same people want to wonder why the non-shooting public generally fears us, with the whole "happen to be cleaning a gun" when a visitor drops by kind of business. Just a thought. IMO, it would be better for all involved to just bulldoze through the crap and put up an "I don't trust anybody, stay away, enter at your own risk" sign or some such. I bet that would be much, much more effective than "No solicitors".

No, the solicitors might run for office some day... :)

Government should fear the people. If the people fear the government it is tyranny.

TallPine
October 10, 2006, 07:36 PM
I thought that I was a hardcore recluse, but I am downright extroverted compared to some of you folks :p

Since our house is in sight of the county road, we've had a couple different times that people have come to our house for help, and I've let them use our phone. Rural Montana folk are pretty friendly and helpful. I just try to be a little careful and suspicious at the same time.

Another time a stranger showed up while I was out digging up a garden plot for my wife. There I was... no shirt, jeans and sidearm plainly visible, and quite stern and suspicious, and it turned out he was reporting smoke from a wildfire about a mile away from our house.;)

anotherKevin
October 10, 2006, 07:49 PM
My sign says "no soliciting", and I used a label printer to add "scouts OK" to it. It's worked mostly. I have a window that overlooks the front door and I only talk through that if someone arrives at the door, and it's usually just to ask them to go back and read the sign.

Glenn Kelley
October 10, 2006, 10:18 PM
Half way through this thread the phone rang and Mary asked if i was Mr Kelley.Mary got the dial tone.First call I've had in a couple of months.

Grizzley Adams
October 10, 2006, 10:35 PM
it just makes me damn happy i live in the mountains,where i will never ever see someone coming up to my cabin trying to sell me some stuff thats either stolen or just plain junk.all i am gonna say to you is be extra watchfull now that all this happened.because where there is one or more in your case even more will follow.

TallPine
October 10, 2006, 10:40 PM
Half way through this thread the phone rang and Mary asked if i was Mr Kelley.Mary got the dial tone.
Mary is probably the clerk for an attorney, calling to tell you that you have just inherited a million dollars (or maybe a castle in Ireland) from your great-Uncle :p

History Prof
October 11, 2006, 01:04 AM
Mormon missionaries should just leave if you tell them you're not interested. That is what they are supposed to do. They aren't supposed to harrass you or cause any trouble.I'm not LDS (I'm an evangelical Christian), but I live in a Mormon community and teach at a college founded by the LDS church (it is now a public institution). The Mormon students in my classes are the best behaved I have ever taught. The missionaries who come to my door are polite and kindly leave when I tell them I have a relationship with Jesus.

By the way - around here, all the young men from my community get interesting missions in Latin America. What poor kid gets a Mormon mission to a predominantly Mormon community? I feel sorry for the poor fellas who come here. Very few people to try to convert, and as the OP pointed out, if we want info, we can just go down the street to the Mormon church!

Macpherson
October 11, 2006, 01:15 AM
Good heavens! After reading this thread it appears that things like manners, common courtesy and hospitality have been replaced by paranoia and hostility. Everyone has a right to privacy and to protect their loved ones and property, but a great many of the responses here go beyond the pall of unnecessary rudeness IMHO. People didn't used to answer the door with guns in their hands or keep large threatening dogs and/or signage, it was called hospitality back then, apparently its extinct now.

Yes these people are aggravating, but unless they appear threatening or do not leave when asked, they are either people just trying to make a living, or trying to fulfill the tenets of their religion. You may not subscribe to their religion, but recognize that many of them are really sincere about reaching out to others...something that is most definitely a foreign concept to a lot of members here, apparently. I hate to say it but attitudes and behavior like this fit exactly the "antisocial gun nut/freak" stereotype that anti-gun people like to paint all gun owners as being. Yes people can be rude, but is that an excuse to do the same? I thought this was the "High Road".

Travis Lee
October 11, 2006, 01:42 AM
I'm full of kindness, but I feel no obligation to share it when a stranger comes to my door to convert me, or get money out of me, and I feel quite justified in getting rude when somebody doesn't get a move on when I'm polite.

I've encountered too many people who use a smile as a weapon, and have betrayed my "benefit of the doubt".

If you want to just stand there being "nice" while somebody does a victim interview and positions themselves for an assault, I'll leave you to learn the lesson.

Been there, done that, still got the T-shirt with my blood on it.

--Travis--

p35
October 11, 2006, 11:13 AM
I work from home, and I bill by the hour. I don't like door-to-door solicitors any better than I do phone solicitors-they're wasting my time (money) and/or cutting into my time with my family for their own benefit with something I have no interest in. I hang up on phone solicitors- why not get rid of door-to-door solicitors as efficiently as possible as well?

Gordon Fink
October 11, 2006, 01:28 PM
The door-to-door salesman is an anachronism. He may once have served a useful purpose, but his time has long since ended. Telemarketers have always been an anathema and have made me loathe telephones.

Children should not be pushed into this obnoxious and dangerous pursuit to raise funds for their schools or recreational organizations. Girl Scout cookies are revolting in any case. I will make sure that my own daughter has no part of such business.

More than half of the “salesmen” I have encountered at my door have been the hard-sell type. These are often the teenagers hocking magazine subscriptions to “earn points” for some trip or to “win a scholarship” to college. When I politely decline, they always demand to know why I won’t help them out, refusing to accept my first, second, and even third no as an answer. This would try anyone’s patience and courtesy.

~G. Fink

XLMiguel
October 11, 2006, 07:41 PM
I'm big and I'm [politely] blunt, at least for the first "no thank you, not interested". From there, the volume goes up with the"What part of 'no thank you' do you not understand?" followed by round three (rare) with appropriate explicative adverbs inserted (I hate it when that happens). I usually answer the door with a pistol SOB or sometimes visable in a holster. When the sidearm is visible, most everyone accepts the first 'no thx'. I'm putting up a "No Soliciting" sign at the foot of the driveway of the new house.

Just as an aside, has everyone registered their cell phone numbers with the National "Do Not Call" List [https://www.donotcall.gov/default.aspx]? All cell phone numbers were supposedly made availalbe to telemarketers as of Monday

FRIENDLY
October 11, 2006, 07:48 PM
It seems that the only people you might accept are the door to door salespeople selling DO NOT DISTURB- NO SOLICITORS - NO ENTRY - MAD DOG- signs

Gordon Fink
October 11, 2006, 07:52 PM
Cell-phone numbers will never be made available to telemarketers, thanks to the vast number of justifiable homicides that would generate. :evil:

~G. Fink

2PAK
October 11, 2006, 08:04 PM
Rule #1: Never open the door if you don't know who is on the other side of it. It's like telephone, you're not obligated to answer it if you dont know who's calling (or even if you do). Alternatively, just step to one side of your shut and locked door and communicate that way if you must communicate with the person. Once you crack open the door to a person that you dont know :what: he/she has effectively gained the first step of entry into your space - it maybe his last but he has an opening.
Rule #2: See above.

cambeul41
October 11, 2006, 09:30 PM
by stepping outside and closing the door behind me so as to announce, "You are not coming in except over me."

At night, so far, no one has tried. But I am armed.

trainwreck100
October 11, 2006, 09:45 PM
It seems like it's always late when people show up at our house, and just having one of us wander around outside randomly rattling bushes or being seen then disappearing behind fences usually make them uncomfortable enough to not hang around too long. Of course, a 20 gauge barrel coming around the door before the person does helps too...

Glenn Kelley
October 11, 2006, 09:50 PM
Tallpine,
Mary works for a grocery company.my family migrated to Ontario in 1798..from New Jersey,are there any castles in New Jersey.

DerringerUser
October 11, 2006, 10:03 PM
If you want to have fun, then you can act like you are insane, or dont know what you are doing. You can act like you're completely drunk, or you can act stoned and confuse the soliciters. Thats pretty fun, but they dont always buy it.

If they're from the Church of Scientology, then start acting like an alien.

Something of that sort, just to confuse them.

TallPine
October 11, 2006, 11:17 PM
Tallpine,
Mary works for a grocery company.my family migrated to Ontario in 1798..from New Jersey,are there any castles in New Jersey.

Oh okay ... thought maybe with a name like Kelley that you might be Irish.;)

Mary "I'll get right to the point" Roberts keeps calling here about some satellite TV (I think that's what it's about) offer. I get right to the point and just hang up.:p


Openly carried sidearms do wonders for discouraging uninvited visitors. An armed homeowner is a polite homeowner :D

XLMiguel
October 11, 2006, 11:39 PM
Cell-phone numbers will never be made available to telemarketers, thanks to the vast number of justifiable homicides that would generate
Source, please. I'll admit I just got about 10 notes from friends regarding releasing cell #'s, along with plenty of rumors to that effect, but (respectfully) what makes you think it ain't going to happen?

Il Duca
October 12, 2006, 01:23 AM
If they're from the Church of Scientology, then start acting like an alien.

Why would you do that? Then they'll just bring their friends. Just tell them Jesus loves them. ;)

heypete
October 12, 2006, 02:36 AM
Source, please. I'll admit I just got about 10 notes from friends regarding releasing cell #'s, along with plenty of rumors to that effect, but (respectfully) what makes you think it ain't going to happen?

It's false.

See Snopes.com's article (http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/cell411.asp) on it.

Also, see the FCC's page (http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2005/04/dnc.htm) on it. Note that FCC regulations prohibit automatic dialers from calling cellphones, and that practically all telemarketing firms use auto-dialers. Thus, even if the numbers were made available, they would be practically useless for any telemarketing firm (hand-dialing wastes valuable time and money).

tanksoldier
October 12, 2006, 02:53 AM
None justifies the use of firearms, but all could have turned bad and THEN required the use of a firearm... which you didn't have. "Sales calls" are often an excuse to case potential targets. Is anyone home, do they have nice stuff, are they little old ladies or a house full of college football jocks, etc, etc...

Okay, so here's the part about guns. This sort of stuff REALLY pisses me off. Like, bad. Bad bad. I realize that none of these occurances justify even showing a firearm, but I definitley felt violated and manipulated.

The original poster was quite clear that his visitors were aggressive, unpleasant and wouldn't take no for an answer.

Yes these people are aggravating, but unless they appear threatening or do not leave when asked, they are either people just trying to make a living, or trying to fulfill the tenets of their religion.

Answering the door with a firearm visible and actually drawing it and pointing it at someone are two different things.

Depending on where you live, answering the door with a gun visible can be cause for arrest. Here's one incident from Akron, Ohio.

WOMAN POINTS FIREARM AT SALESPERSON, POLICE SAY
Source: Andale Gross, Beacon Journal staff writer
A West Akron woman is accused of pointing a gun at a saleswoman who knocked on her door.

If my dog attacks anyone it will be because they are in my house or in my back yard... in which case they deserve what they get.

Be careful putting up a "Beware of Dog" sign if in fact you have a dog. It might be construed as proof that you knew your dog was dangerous, if the dog ever attacks someone.

thexrayboy
October 12, 2006, 12:01 PM
For those unsolicited phone calls that always seem to occur during dinner or your favorite TV show simply tell the telemarketer to hold for a moment please, set the phone down and go back to your dinner etc. They usually work for commision and making them waste time "holding" for you is a bit of pay back.

ZeSpectre
October 12, 2006, 12:46 PM
I have a lifelong friend who has a well earned reputation as a prankster. He was visiting me one time when two female "God squad" types show up and start trying to talk my ear off. All of a sudden he comes running from the living room saying "Holy COW, my tarantulas got loose, did you see them out here? Oh CRAP, they could be ANYWHERE!

The two young ladies left VERY quickly :evil:

michaelbane
October 12, 2006, 12:56 PM
I don't get a lot of solicitors, but when I do, I just tell them I'm not interested and that they should leave. If they're religious I'll commend them for their good faith efforts and wish them the best.

If it's for a pollitical candidate that I don't support. I tell the person bluntly why I'm voting for the other candidate.

The only suspicious guy I ever had was someone claiming to be from a competing phone company (we have utility choice here). He wanted to "register" me for a "discount", and to do that he had to see my phone bill. Right away, I knew something was fishy. I told him to his face that he was a scam artist and threatened to call the cops if he didn't leave my front steps immediately.

Deanimator
October 12, 2006, 01:57 PM
For those unsolicited phone calls that always seem to occur during dinner or your favorite TV show simply tell the telemarketer to hold for a moment please, set the phone down and go back to your dinner etc. They usually work for commision and making them waste time "holding" for you is a bit of pay back.
At work we get a bunch of telemarketing calls for investments. Some of them are polite; some are rude and hang up when you decline; some won't take no for an answer.

Last week we got one of the "won't take no for an answer" types. I told him the boss was on another line and sat the phone down in front of my computer speakers. He must not like the Dennis Praeger show, 'cause he hung up...

p35
October 12, 2006, 07:34 PM
Speaking of telemarketers, for those who haven't heard this yet, look at http://www.tommabe.com/

cassandrasdaddy
October 12, 2006, 10:26 PM
"hello? hello! can you hear me? hello?" a few choruses of this drive the phone soliciters nuts

v8stang289
October 13, 2006, 11:07 AM
Speaking of telemarketers, my dad is the parts manager at a toyota dealership, and he always gets calls from people trying to sell the company new products. Usually he tells them "you've got five seconds to sell so start talkin" and then slams the phone down. Well the telemarketers have gotten wise to this and try to disguise there motives. He had one call a couple of weeks ago on a perticularly stressful day, and the guy told him he had a 58 chevrolet carburetor that he needed to get rebuilt. First of all, its a toyota dealership, so his claim made no sense. But anyway, my dad recognized his voice and went along with it and said "I'll tell you what to do. Get down on your knees and pray, just pray!! and God will fix that carburetor." then he slammed the phone down.

(keep in mind my dad is not a really religious person, he was just messin with the guy)

Justin
October 13, 2006, 12:25 PM
This one's gone off topic.

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