[jagdpanzer347]

Greetings all. Just curious as to what my fellow THR members prefer and why. I seem to have never met a surplus rifle I didn't like, so I have some of each.
Both are so rich with history and so fun to shoot, I really can't decide which I like better. I can say of the rifles in my modest collection, the FR8 is my favorite Mauser and the Finn M39 my favorite Mosin. Thoughts?

-jagd

[MachIVshooter]

The only examples I have are a 1945 M44 Mosin and a 1927 M93 Spanish Mauser (7x57). Definitely prefer the Mauser. Smoother, faster action by far.

Now between a Finnish M39 and a German K98 or Yugo 24/47, I dunno. Probably still go for the K98

[Jackal]

I personally prefer the Mosins slick action(Note: I have a long sniper bolt on mine).

[Cosmoline]

Owned and shot many of each. I like them both, but my heart belongs to the clunky old Mosin. They have their own pros and cons. The biggest difference is in their distribution and history. The Mausers spanned the world, and were used everywhere from Argentina to Siam. Each nation had its own particular model--and I include our own Springfield '03 among them. The engineers at Mauser were constantly upgrading the design, which created further complexities. The net result is a complex mix of rifles with limited parts interchangeability between models and subtypes.

The Mosins, OTOH, were developed in Czarist Russia and remained in orbit around Russia and the USSR. Most subtypes came from Russia's neighbors, most notably the Finns and East European nations. Some captures made it to Austria and Turkey, and of course our own nation had its share, but these never became anything more than obscure remnants. Plus, the Mosins never had a Mauser-like sales team pushing them. Nor did anyone bother trying to improve on the basic system. It worked well enough. Even the Finns couldn't find a cost-effective way of making it better. Their limited efforts with the infamous M-27 "wings" were a notable failure. It's the old Russian proverb, "The best is the enemy of good enough." The upside is interchangeability of parts between models is excellent.

Both Mauser and Mosin actions are tough, though Mauser didn't have anything as tough as the '91 Mosin until the '98. Mosin actions get a bad rap for sticking because people fire horrific ammo out of old parts rifles from the bargain bin. But I've had more and worse jams by far out of old Mausers. When you use bad ammo and add poor bolt fit and headspace issues, the jams are going to happen with any action. A smooth Mosin is as fast as a smooth '98--though neither is as fast as a Swede.

The Mosin uses big, archaic rimmed cartridges. Only the Siamese Mauser does likewise. The advantage of this design is it tends to be more forgiving of headspace variations, but it also means rimlock is a threat. And it makes most stripper clips for the Mosin worse than useless, since even if they work they're likely to insert the cartridges with locked rims.

[jagdpanzer347]

Very well said Cosmo, as usual. I figured I could pencil in a vote for Mosins for you.

On an unrelated note, I have been following your posts regarding the M1895 Nagant over on GB. I picked up a 1931 Tula last week and hope to try it out tommorrow with some .32 S&W ammo.

-jagdpanzer

[grimjaw]

These are just my opinion.

Mauser would win the beauty pageant; I've seen some beautiful examples of this kind of rifle.
An excellent example of each would be pretty close as far as consistent accuracy, and I don't mean one of the Big5 specials.
I own several Mosins and no Mausers, so I've made my choice.
jm

[EvisceratorSrB]

Personally, I like both of them very much. The biggest differences to me are the actions, and the sights. I really dislike the Mosin actions I've handled, whereas I do like the Mauser actions. The sights are a definite winner for the Mauser, hands down. They are the best iron sites I've EVER used, peep sight have nothing on them IMO.

The accuracy is superb with both, they tie in that area. The looks go to the Mauser, but that view can go both ways from person to person. I just feel like the durability of the Mauser is on a high level, whereas I don't get the same impression of the M44.

What goes for Mosin's M44 for me is that it "jammed" less than my Mauser. Sometimes, the 8mm cartridges single stack two in a row, making it extremely difficult to get them out of the magazine. There you have it, both are great but let's face it, I'm a Mauser man...

[Eightball]

My Mosin rocks. My Spanish Mauser rocks. Between the two of them, though, I'd be tempted to pick the Mosin. I don't know why, but the long, slender rifle (yes, 1891/30) just appeals to me.

[Texas Gunman]

Im thinking Mauser, cause it is a awsome abolt action, can be deadly accurate & dependable.

Enfeild, has the best trench rifle,cause of it rear locked lugs, it can handle the worse of feild conditions.

Mosins, never bothered to buy one.:scrutiny:

TG

[dogngun]

I have had a Finnish Mosin, several Enfields, several Mausers.
Right now, I have a 1939 Vz24 Mauser, a very used beater bought for $130. The bore cleaned up very nicely, and it shoots better than I hoped it would, so right now I like the Mausers.

Mark

[Ad Astra]

The Mauser gets my vote... this week.

The Mosin bolt at best feels almost homemade compared to the Mauser; it just doesn't have the same feel.

They both have tons of history- got a Dragoon MN- but every Mauser "byf" and "ce" just talks to me. Both rifles involve Russia, no matter what you pick. :evil:

If only the Finn M-39 had a smooth-turning Mauser bolt...

91/30's feel like a Kentucky rifle. M-38's just feel mass-produced (duh).

The Mauser has many children- the 03, Remingtons, etc. but the MN's time came and went when the Soviet wars ended.

The Mauser will never be out of style, or outdated to me.

[NateG]

Well, I think there's a reason (other than geo-politics) why the mauser action is still the basis for lots of modern rifles, whereas the mosin nagant action isn't (as far as I know) in production anywhere.

Jackal said:
I personally prefer the Mosins slick action(Note: I have a long sniper bolt on mine).

That must be the first time I've ever heard a Mosin action described as "slick." Effective, sure, reliable, uhuh. But not slick. "Hit with a 2x4 when it gets stuck, and no harm done" is the more common description, I think. :evil:

All that being said, I've got several of each and love shooting 'em all. My favorite's probably a Westinghouse manufactured M1891 (dated 1915, but I've heard that doesn't mean it couldn't have been manufactured in 1916) that the Finns captured at some point and put one of the Finnish stocks on it. So, if you're going to play with it at the range, I'd probably say Mosin (cheap is the tie-breaker). If you're going to take it hunting, Mauser.

[dfaugh]

Mauser...I've have/had an M-44 and 2 91/30s--just a bit crude for my tastes.

The Mausers I have on the other hand, feel/act nearly as good as many production rifles (and while we're mentioning it, how many commercial actions were ever patterned after a Mosin? How 'bout after the Mauser?)

But, my biggest complaint about the Mosins is the "safety"--not even sure it really qualifies as one, as you have to put the gun into battery, before you can engage it.

Mosins are fun guns, especially the 44s and 38s, but I'm sticking with Mausers from here out. There's so many different permutations/varieties of Mausers out there, you could spend a lifetime (and more $$$$ than I have) collecting them.

[JShirley]

The "safety" is the biggest reason I don't care for the Mosin-Nagant. I've had several Mausers, but no M-Ns.

John

[Third_Rail]

That safety, once you learn to properly work it, is the most positive, quietest, and safest safety around that I know of.

[Bullet Bob]

Almost every commercial bolt action around today has a big dose of Mauser engineering. I don't know of any with MN backgrounds.

It seems the marketplace has spoken.

[MinScout]

It's not even a contest. Mausers are head and shoulders above Mosins. Now, compare Mausers and Enfields and we might have a discussion.

[Cosmoline]

Care to explain how exactly the Mauser is "head and shoulders" better than the Mosin?

[Zeke Menuar]

Mosins are far better than Mausers!

Why you ask?

Everytime I pull a Mauser out of the safe, I dig out a Brownells Catalog and a calulator and start figuring the cost of turning my 98/22 into a custom masterpiece. I have spent thousands of fake dollars building my ultimate gun.

Mosins don't fill me with that kind of inspiration.

ZM

[offthepaper]

The metal machining on the Mauser is superior to the MN. But the funtionality of both seems pretty much a draw, at least in my case. I've sent a lot of ammo (surplus ammo) down range with both. No real problems to speak of with either. The Mauser seems to be built with better materials metal grade/ wood stock, but again I really can't say that it makes the big difference to the old soldiers who fought with both. All they want is funtional, reliable, and accurate enough. Both rifles fit this bill. Both share a rich history.

[AJAX22]

In general the mauser shows a bit better craftsmanship than the moisin, but comparing like rifles, (low end mil surps) I prefer the moisin nagat.

You can find low end mausers, you can find mid grade mausers, and you can find beautifull high end mausers, but you'd be hard put to find a moisin that would would be much better than a high midgrade.

If you're looking for a shooter you can't go wrong with a moisin nagat. I've never seen one that wasn't a shooter.

I did have a turk mauser that would occasionally ftf, the front sight fell off, and the barrel was rusted badly from where the acids in the stock wood had cut into the barrel (hidden from view or I wouldn't have boughten it)

It was the same 100$ as the nagat sitting next to it, and looking back at it, I would have been better served going with a nice long barreled russian.

cest la vie.

[Hoppy590]

this is the same arguement of AK47 vs AR. its "percision and smooth" versus cheap, simple and reliable. mausers may have been all over the world. but i garentee you. some where in southeast asia, or in the middle east. there is a bicycle shop and in the basement they are still making mosin's. :cool:

my vote is MN. K.I.S.S.

[Cosmoline]

but you'd be hard put to find a moisin that would would be much better than a high midgrade.

Not true! These comments about the low grade of Mosin workmanship are based on the wartime Soviet production rifles. Just as there are Turkey Mausers that look like they were constructed by apes with ball-peen hammers, there are mid 40's 91/30's and hacked up M38's that have rough machining and rough fit.

But if you learn a little more, you will find that there are some truly phenomenal Mosins. The superlative M-28 and 28/30 of the Civil Guard, for example.

http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/MosinNagant-M2830rifle-introduction.asp

MOA or sub-MOA accuracy, expert workmanship, improved trigger and a butter smooth action. With an M-28 and iron sights alone, Häyhä racked up over 500 confirmed kills over the space of a few months. These rifles are getting harder to find, though I've scrounged up two over the years--one marked as a "Russian rifle" for $100 and the other for $200 as an M-39. Sold both to collectors, as I don't have the space to store them properly. But I did get to have a little fun with them, and they're real death ray rifles. With D166 ball they'll outshoot most modern production hunting rifles.

[Jackal]

My Mosin M44(all origional, not re-arsenal) has the smoothest bolt slide/throw of any rifle I own. It is smoother than my Winchester M70, Ruger 77, Ishapore Enfield or my M48 Mauser. It's also a great shooter after I reworked the trigger. Like said above, there are good Mosins and good Mausers. I personally have not felt a smooth sliding Mauser military bolt, ever.

[PAC 762]

They are both great rifles. Go with your heart. My heart has fallen for mausers, but it's only what I like, not what necessarily works best.

[Niner]

The Mausers can be fed surplus ammo from just about anywhere without any bolt sticking or other problem, which can't be said for the Mosin Nagants.

As has been pointed out, the safety on the Nagant is terrible to put it mildly.

The Finn Mosins have a better sight and a better trigger break. And... many of the Nagants can post at least as good and often better target scores...if.. there is some decent ammo to fire down range.

The K98k and later Mausers offer a bent bolt as a regular feature, which the Nagants don't... which also makes it possible to mount a scope closer to your eye.

When you load a Mauser you have to put the round in the magazine. The Nagant you can just drop a round in and close the bolt. But the Mausers.. many of them....have a really smooth bolt action that the Nagants don't have.

The Mauser has a nice "American" butt stock and pistol grip. The Nagant in the same area looks..... strange and "foreign" to my tastes.

There is a lot of history associated with both Mausers and Nagants. I like them both.

[atblis]

is much more KISS than the MN.

[screamin eagle]

I like the mauser better. I have a spanish mauser model 1893 but made in 1896 and i love the way it shoots over the moisn nagant rifles. I have shot both the mauser and the nagant and the nagant seemed to me to kick like a mule as to the mauser it has about the same recoil as my 270.

[KUJO2388]

I will be firing a Mauser (not sure what kind yet, I think a Yugo 8mm) for the first time this Wed. We will also be shooting a M44 and M1931. So I will post which one I think is best. These old surplus Firearms are great.

[White Horseradish]

The mauser
is much more KISS than the MN. Now, that's a new one on me. Care to elaborate?

[Hoppy590]

atblis

The mauser is much more KISS than the MN.

yes, do explain. the Mauser is the basis for most rifles since. but the nagant is incredibly simple. dont forget KISS not only refers to design, but operational tollerances, ability to use "field expediant" parts. ( AKA machine screws, duct tape and parts from a 89 Camaro)

[confed sailor]

i have both , my only gripe with the mn, is the barrel tends to heat rather fast and walk, to its credit my rifle has a pretty steady hot zero

[atblis]

The bolt is not your typical KISS Russky stuff. The machining appears quite tricky on it.

Maybe not "much more". I'll call it a tie on that regard. The mauser bolt is in some ways simpler. I wouldn't go as far as to call the MN KISS.

I don't understand the field repairs comparison. Screws as far as I know are interchangeable between Mausers.

Can you switch bolts on MNs because of the rimmed cartridge? That's the only part interchangeabilty I can think of that would be unique.

[confed sailor]

as long as the bolt head stays with a paticular rifle headspace does not change, the rest of the bolt parts swap nicely. Which makes a turned down bolt handle much less traumatic evolution than on a mauser.

[atblis]

I don't really see the advantage to that. You've got a couple smaller parts instead of one piece.

If you could take the bolt straight out of one gun, and throw it in another (which you can sometimes), than...

[Cosmoline]

The advantage is, the parts of the bolt that wears out faster can be replaced at minimal cost, and it becomes an easy matter to fit new bolts--far easier than with a Mauser. The same Mosin receivers were able to continue in service for 100 years or more in large part because of the ease with which replacement bolt heads and bodies could be found and fitted. The Finns were re-working them into the 1970's and 80's. Look at one of the old Finns and you'll see that the bolt body, head, trigger guard and other parts have been replaced many times. You can have parts with all sorts of odd stamps on them combined into one fully functional rifle.

Screws as far as I know are interchangeable between Mausers

Lord no. There's almost nothing that interchanges between the main types, and even subtypes have many many confusing variations. Believe me I've tried. Even among '98's, see what swaps between a Turk a Yugo and a K98k. The basic dimensions are different between them. Try putting an M-48 bolt into a K98k Mauser, or the other way around.

The Mauser has a nice "American" butt stock and pistol grip. The Nagant in the same area looks..... strange and "foreign" to my tastes.

This is really what it boils down to. Most people prefer the Mauser because it's closer to what American rifle makers adopted for their own hunting rifle designs. The Mosins are a road not taken here. But if you can open your mind a little you'll see the merits of them.

[Metapotent]

Mauser, Mauser, Mauser.

Much more accurate than the Mosin in my experience. 2 inch groups at 100yds with 8mm milsurp is damn satisfying. You can't go wrong there.

Then 10 inch groups at 100yds with relatively expensive x54 R was a little frustrating.

I just ordered a premium-grade k98 Mauser from Mitchells Mausers. I guess that after WWII the Germans had thousands of rifles locked away and you can get the ones that never were used and simply sat in a crate for 60 years. It comes with the SS TottenKopf symbol on it as well!

Go here (http://mauser.org/rifles/german_k98/index.htm) to see what I ordered. (don't criticize my choice to buy it cause I dont care even if it is a gimmick)

[Cosmoline]

I just ordered a premium-grade k98 Mauser from Mitchells Mausers. I guess that after WWII the Germans had thousands of rifles locked away and you can get the ones that never were used and simply sat in a crate for 60 years. It comes with the SS TottenKopf symbol on it as well!


Oh, ouch. Can you return it? Do a search on this forum for "Mitchells mausers" and you'll see what I'm talking about. I would advise you with all my heart to nix that sale and spend that money on a minty fresh Persian Mauser or Argie '09. For the Mauser lover these are real treats, and unlike Mitchell's "deals" they will increase in value.

[Metapotent]

Oh, ouch. Can you return it?

No, but nor do I want to.

Do a search on this forum for "Mitchells mausers" and you'll see what I'm talking about. I would advise you with all my heart to nix that sale and spend that money on a minty fresh Persian Mauser or Argie '09.

The thing is, I want an actual German mauser and the German SS symbols that are on it will go good with my collection. I have an ivory grip SS Luger, an SS dagger, SS medals, SS helmet, and a bunch of other nick-nacks.

For the Mauser lover these are real treats, and unlike Mitchell's "deals" they will increase in value.

Ah well.

[Cosmoline]

It's your money, of course. But it would be interesting to see how well that rifle shoots compared to my beat up rearsenaled Ishy 91/30.

[atblis]

$400 for a Yugo mauser, :what:

[Texas Gunman]

Aim Surplus just got in a new shipment of M48s, these even come with front sight hood and cleaning rod.

$109.95:cool:

Based on what I;ve read, these may be the last of the M48s coming in.

TG

[jagdpanzer347]

I saw one of those at AIM yesterday. Looked a little better than the "shooter grade" I bought a couple of months ago from them. The prices of really nice M48's seem to be climbing at a decent pace. Wish I would have bought an unissued/excellent M48 and M24/47 for a little over a hundred bucks each when I had the chance. Oh well, so many rifles, so little money.

-jagdpanzer

[cracked butt]

Based on what I;ve read, these may be the last of the M48s coming in.

Importers/ wholesalers always claim that what they are selling is the last shipment of its kind coming in.lol.

Mausers of Mosins? I like them both.

[White Horseradish]

The bolt is not your typical KISS Russky stuff. The machining appears quite tricky on it.

Maybe not "much more". I'll call it a tie on that regard. The mauser bolt is in some ways simpler. I wouldn't go as far as to call the MN KISS.

I don't understand the field repairs comparison. Screws as far as I know are interchangeable between Mausers.

Can you switch bolts on MNs because of the rimmed cartridge? That's the only part interchangeabilty I can think of that would be unique.There is simplicity in use and repair and simplicity in maufacture.

As far as use and repair, Mosins beat Mausers hands down. No extra catch for the bolt, ability to shoot even with a broken magazine (try single-feeding a Mauser with a broken mag spring), field-adjustable headspace are all important in a rifle of that class.

As far as milling needed to make either rifle, they are very comparable.

What do you mean by switching bolts because of a rimmed cartridge? Switch with what? And what does the cartridge have to do with it?



The thing is, I want an actual German mauser and the German SS symbols that are on it will go good with my collection. I have an ivory grip SS Luger, an SS dagger, SS medals, SS helmet, and a bunch of other nick-nacksEr... So if you wanted a German mauser, why'd you buy Mitchells? All of theirs are made in Serbia(Yugoslavia).

The SS lightning bolts on a Mauser are about as historically accurate as a zipper on a suit of armor. Color me confused...

[gaweidert]

I own several of both, but for some reason I shoot the Mosin Nagantsa lot more often. I got one on a lark just to see what they were all about and now have several including an original sniper that it a great shooter. The Finns reworked these rifles to very high standards and put Tikka, Sako or VMT barrels on them. Their rifles had to shoot a sub 1.5 MOA to be accepted by the military. My M39's are great shooters too.

[PAC 762]

The thing is, I want an actual German mauser and the German SS symbols that are on it will go good with my collection. I have an ivory grip SS Luger, an SS dagger, SS medals, SS helmet, and a bunch of other nick-nacks.


You know the Mitchell's mausers are not really german, right??? :uhoh:

[Metapotent]

PAC 762 said:

Quote:
The thing is, I want an actual German mauser and the German SS symbols that are on it will go good with my collection. I have an ivory grip SS Luger, an SS dagger, SS medals, SS helmet, and a bunch of other nick-nacks.



You know the Mitchell's mausers are not really german, right???

Yes but thats not what I'm going to tell all my friends and house guests.:D

[EvisceratorSrB]

Why not buy an original K98K? I believe some of them do have the SS death's head stamped on the barrel, though probably a bit pricey. I think it's worth the history. I have a pretty original one, with Waffen stamps and such, factory code and date. Only alteration I can tell is the finish, some professionally reworked patches here and there I guess to get rid of the dings...which is stupid IMO. Maybe the gunsmith did it a REALLY long time ago, or else that was just not cool.

[Ash]

"The Mausers can be fed surplus ammo from just about anywhere without any bolt sticking or other problem, which can't be said for the Mosin Nagants"

Big time apples and oranges. Find steel-cased laquer -finished 8mm Mauser. You can't in any quantity. So, there is no comparison to firing it. Feed a Mosin brass-cased ammo and extraction becomes a non-issue.

Also, the a great many commercial actions today are neither Mauser or Mosin. The only thing "Mauser" on a Remington 700 is the locking lug location and the magazine. The bolt on modern commercial actions is actually more Carcano than Mauser. Sure, you can get a CZ or a Zastava, but the push-feed bolts on Remington, Winchester, Howa, Savage, and several others are more related to Carcanos than Mauser.

Ultimately, you can get Mauser action rifles (that still aren't fully mauser, as the Mauser safety has been discarded on most actions) from several sources, but the marketplace spoke and took neither.

By the way, the M28/30 or M39 have better, more adjustable sights than the k98k mauser.

Ash

[KaiserBen]

"Big time apples and oranges. Find steel-cased laquer -finished 8mm Mauser. You can't in any quantity. So, there is no comparison to firing it. Feed a Mosin brass-cased ammo and extraction becomes a non-issue."

I have a 760rd crate of Romanian 8mm that is steel cased, and lacquered. It was delivered last week from AIM surplus. Decent stuff too, never had any issues with it, aside from it being a bit on the weak side for cycling the Hakim. And as far as sticking bolts go, I've had issues with my Mauser and Mosin having this problem.

[atblis]

What do you mean by switching bolts because of a rimmed cartridge? Switch with what? And what does the cartridge have to do with it?

Headspacing off a rim, as opposed to a shoulder. 7.62x54r is rimmed. Very obvious if you look at it. Perhaps less critical? You can have a much sloppier chamber, and it will still headspace.

Switching bolts between guns perhaps. Something that isn't generally advisable with mausers, but does sometimes work. That would be neat feature in terms of field repairs.

[44AMP]

Having owned a number of both, I far and away prefer the Mauser. When comparing low budget milsurp rifles, there isn't usually a whole lot between them, other than my experience is that smooth bolt throw is the exception with the MN. Of course, old worn Mausers can have a bit of bolt wobble, so I think it kind of a wash. Good shooters of both are accurate, poor ones aren't, and the outside finish isn't any guide as to if it will shoot well, or not.

For the MN lovers out there, enjoy them, they are a good military bolt action. But Mausers are good rifles. I have or have had Mausers converted from milsurps in calibers ranging from .22-250 to .458Win Mag, which have equalled or surpassed commercial mass produced sporting rifles.

The same sort of thing is not practical (or even possible) with the Moisin Nagant. You can replace the stock, work over the trigger, even scope them, and they still are what they are. A clunky bolt and an awkward safety do not to me beauty make.

For a bad car analogy, a Mauser is like a VW that you can turn into a Porsche, if you want. A Moisin Nagant is a ...Studebaker. It gets you around, but you can't really do anything much else with it.

So, if you are talking milsurp rifles in issue trim for blasting up milsurp ammo, either is ok. MNs are cheaper today, because former combloc countries need cash, and they have a lot of old rifles for sale. 30-40 years ago, Mausers (and Arisakas, even Springfields) were cheap and plentiful. In those days MNs were scarce, and rather expensive, and ammo was difficult/impossible to find, cause the communists wouldn't sell us any.

I say Mausers are the better rifle, and sporting rifle design supports this. The style of locking lugs and the magazine design are Mauser, or derived from Mauser on the majority of bolt action sporters. Just because it doesn't have a large claw extractor, and/or has a spring loaded ejector doesn't mean that it isn't a Mauser at it's roots.

Moisin Nagants and SMLEs are fine military rifles, and can be made into passable sporters with enough effort, and I own several of each. But Mausers are just the best. Even the US Govt built our version (Springfield and Enfield)of the Mauser, not the MN, or the SMLE, or anybody else's design.
Not an exact copy, but the Mauser features are clearly evident. In over 100 years, nobody has come up with a significantly better design, although some features have been improved.

That didn't happen with the Moisin Nagant, nor the Carcano, nor the Lebel, not the SMLE, or even the Mannlicher. To me, that says alot.

[Stiletto Null]

I actually prefer the pseudo hogback of the Mosin stock. Straight-top stocks tend to beat my face up. :mad:

My M39 cycles extreme fast. Aside from that funky-as-hell sear click-over (which is why Mosins have that two-stage bolt lift), the Mosin action definitely seems faster than a typical Mauser. The actual forward and rearward strokes on Mosins seem to be universally faster than those of Mausers. (Open a Mauser, tilt the rifle back, the bolt probably won't drop back; it can and will, enthusiastically, on a Mosin.)

Sticky bolt syndrome tends to be from dirty chambers (cosmoline), not from lacquered ammo. Seriously, stick a lighter under a lacquered case sometime, and see if you can get it to get goopy. Not going to happen.

Safety? I don't no stinkin' safety! :D Is gun, is not safe.

Mosins can't really be converted to anything else because they are designed for a rimmed cartrdge. The magazine (with its interruptor and all) reflects this. Judging the merit of a rifle based on what it could be versus what it is strikes me as kind of silly.

Find me a Mauser which is definitively better than my Finnish M39. As in, one that can be cycled faster, and which is significantly more accurate. Seeing as that it's an MOA-ish rifle (using Prvi Partisan ammo...great stuff), the latter will be rather difficult.

[_N4Z_]

The same sort of thing is not practical (or even possible) with the Moisin Nagant. You can replace the stock, work over the trigger, even scope them, and they still are what they are. A clunky bolt and an awkward safety do not to me beauty make.

Huh? Funny thing, the Finns managed to pull that very trick off, and then some. M39. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and there's nothing awkward about that safety once your familiar with it.... and eat a little of Popeye's spinach. :neener:

[mole]

My Mosin rocks. My Spanish Mauser rocks. Between the two of them, though, I'd be tempted to pick the Mosin. I don't know why, but the long, slender rifle (yes, 1891/30) just appeals to me.

It's the same situation here.

[Cosmoline]

Oh yeah, a "studebaker" of rifles.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Simo_Hayha.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Vasily.Zaitsev.jpg/454px-Vasily.Zaitsev.jpg

The problem is some folks proscribe their own personal shortcomings to the Mosins. So if they don't know how to use the safety or aren't strong enough, they blame the rifle. If you take the time to learn something new, you will appreciate the strengths of the design. A high end Mosin, like Hayha's M-28 or a well tuned pre-war Tula, dreads no Mauser.

[White Horseradish]

Headspacing off a rim, as opposed to a shoulder. 7.62x54r is rimmed. Very obvious if you look at it. Perhaps less critical? You can have a much sloppier chamber, and it will still headspace.

Switching bolts between guns perhaps. Something that isn't generally advisable with mausers, but does sometimes work. That would be neat feature in terms of field repairs.

It is true that headspacing on the rim vs headspacing on the shoulder allows for looser chambers. That is mostly a factor in the service life of the rifle, since the stretching of the chamber does not affect headspace.

That said, both Mosin and Mauser designs rely on the integral part of the bolt itself for headspacing, so random mixing and matching of bolts is not advisable. Mosin headspace is way easier to adjust, though. Bolt head can be replaced without taking down the bolt.

[silverlance]

this is my m91/30 repro PU sniper.

it is very accurate, even with czech silvertip that's rusted green. I can easily hit a bowling pin at 100 yards, i can do it if i really try at 150, and if i was a decent shot i'd be killing coconuts at 200.

it is however an inferior rifle to Zaitsev's. this is the first time i've really taken a look at these famous pictures, and i can clearly see how the problems i have with mine would not be present in his.

you can clearly see how the scope is FORWARD, not rear like on mine. this results in a much more balanced rifle and makes it a lot easier to find the right relief.

it is also MUCH lower. thus, it is not necessary to balance the chin precariously on the buttstock.

oh, and it's a PE scope.

his gun was probably about the same in terms of accuracy as mine, but in the hands of someone like him..

i wonder what the legendary (possibly mythical) Koenig's Mauser looked like? was it a mannlicher, or mauser? k98 or k43? who knows.

[Cosmoline]

Notice how Simo used no optics at all. It's something of a radical notion that the greatest sniper in history never used a scope.

[jd46561]

Mosins ,Mausers , I like them both...so whats wrong with Studebaker.?..not a Damn thing!... http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/jd46561/fb_4.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/jd46561/78_3.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/jd46561/46_3.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/jd46561/06_1.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/jd46561/1.jpg

[ajax]

I've owned 3 Mosins(2 M44's & 91/30) 2 Mausers (M48 & Argentine 1891) and I really liked them all. Now that I'm a little older and God I hope a little smarter I regret like mad that I sold the 1891. That was a truely beautiful rifle. The M44 I currenyly have in my safe has the slickest bolt of all the others accept for the 1891. Damn I miss that one. So my opinion is I enjoyed them all and like my children I have no favorites. They all made and make me happy.:)

[DWARREN123]

I like my Mausers better just on looks (M48A-M24/47) than my Mosins (M91/30-M44) but just barely. I really like them all.

[B yond]

between a vz-24 mauser and an m44 mosin I prefer the mauser for both accuracy and the smooth action.