Columbus Day!


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ArmedBear
October 9, 2006, 04:02 PM
Today we celebrate the arrival of guns in the Western Hemisphere.

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rcellis
October 9, 2006, 04:17 PM
What's this "we" kimosabe? Everybody I know are at work today. (I don't know many post office workers or government employees.)

CraigJS
October 9, 2006, 04:18 PM
Me being the old fart that I am, think that Columbus day should still be on the 12th. I'm tired of seeing these dates changed to a monday just for convience.. Besides the 12th is my birthday!!:neener:

Be safe.

mete
October 9, 2006, 04:32 PM
A program on Dicovery Channel tried to say Columbus was not born in Genoa! Of course he was, after all there is a statue of him on the waterfront in Genoa, I was there I saw it !!!! And he brought back to Europe lots of goodies which Europeans now call their 'traditional foods' -tomato, peppers,chocolate,potaotes,corn, avocado etc, etc.

hso
October 9, 2006, 04:39 PM
Hmmmm.

Not so sure all my ancestors are as happy about Columbus Day.

quatin
October 9, 2006, 04:44 PM
:) for uniting all the continents :mad: for raping and pillaging the natives.

bouis
October 9, 2006, 05:07 PM
Probably every group of modern people got where they are today by driving out, butchering, or absorbing the previous inhabitants of their land, Indian tribes included. I feel bad for the Indians, the Bretons, the Samnites, the Canaanites etc., etc., all the way back to the Neanderthals, but I'm not going to feel guilty about it.

American By Blood
October 9, 2006, 05:12 PM
I'm with bouis.

Unfortunately, Columbus Day is a non-event in Baltimore. I think the Italians are probably doing something in Little Italy, and the banks are closed, but that's about it.

In five or so years when Columbus Day is replaced by "Indigenous Peoples' Day" I'm sure every place will shut down out of reverence.

CSA 357
October 9, 2006, 05:22 PM
yes i had to work today, but i got paid double time!:neener: (csa)

bigun15
October 9, 2006, 05:23 PM
A program on Dicovery Channel tried to say Columbus was not born in Genoa!

I was there I saw it

How old are you?

ArmedBear
October 9, 2006, 06:04 PM
I am at work, also. I'm just celebrating the arrival of guns in the Americas.:D

spooney
October 9, 2006, 06:13 PM
Not at work today, not because of Columbus though, I just start my work week on Tuesday. 10 hour days suck but 3 day weekends are cool.

tellner
October 9, 2006, 06:35 PM
Why celebrate him? He was an utter crackpot. Everyone knew exactly how big the world was. C.C. had the whack-job theory that it was really half as large. He didn't listen to his (Basque) navigators who told him to go South far enough to catch the prevailing winds. He didn't know where he was when he got there, and all he could do was enslave, murder and steal. To his credit he repented of his evil in his last days.

Murderous nut case. Why celebrate him?

hatterasurf
October 9, 2006, 08:37 PM
I was in Baltimore yesterday and they had a parade down by the harbor. Theres not much more you can do for the day, except maybe sail a ship. :)

ArmedBear
October 9, 2006, 08:42 PM
How are the Outer Banks this season, hatterasurf?

We haven't had our share of South swells, here. Hurricane season wasn't.

magsnubby
October 9, 2006, 11:13 PM
QUOTE:
"Probably every group of modern people got where they are today by driving out, butchering, or absorbing the previous inhabitants of their land, Indian tribes included. I feel bad for the Indians, the Bretons, the Samnites, the Canaanites etc., etc., all the way back to the Neanderthals, but I'm not going to feel guilty" about it.

Exactly.

SigfanUSAF
October 9, 2006, 11:30 PM
Tellner, I agree. Why do we celebrate a meathead who got lost? To this day Indians are misnamed due to him and his crews inability to properly circumnavigate the globe:neener:

magsnubby
October 10, 2006, 12:02 AM
I have to wonder...how many of you would be here today if not for Columbus? I'm not talking about..."Well my great-great-great whatever was full bood what the hell ever....". I'm talking about 100% full blood Indian. No mixed race anywhere along the family tree. And yes, my wife's great-great grandfather was full blood Oklahoma Chacktaw, which still doesn't mean **** because she ain't full blood Indian. So without Columbus my entire family, along with millions of others, wouldn't be here today. Think about that one for awhile.

rcellis
October 10, 2006, 12:27 AM
About the invading europeans - there is some emerging evidence that there were people in North America when the 'american' indians came over the land bridge from eastern europe - and that *these* 'native americans' were out-competed (that is, wiped out) by the invaders.

Bottom line: there isn't a human being alive who doesn't have ancestors who whacked *somebody* on the head and took his land.

Regretable - but a fact of the human condition. Has no effect on how I deal with my next door neighbor, or the guy down the block.

magsnubby
October 10, 2006, 12:41 AM
QUOTE:"
About the invading europeans - there is some emerging evidence that there were people in North America when the 'american' indians came over the land bridge from eastern europe - and that *these* 'native americans' were out-competed (that is, wiped out) by the invaders."

I've read that also.

Shweboner
October 10, 2006, 12:42 AM
Columbus Day is a joke. Why the hell do we even observe it?

So 600 +/- years ago some knucklehead lands his ship NOWHERE near what is now the US. And that is an excuse to shut down the system?

USA wasnt even a country until +/- 300 years after this event, and its been over 200 years since then, and again HE DIDNT LAND IN AMERICA!


Why then did I not get my mail picked up today?:cuss:


Let the Dominicans or Puerto Ricans celebrate VD, all the wonders of Europe that ol' C.C. brought them. But it has nothing to do with us.

LightningJoe
October 10, 2006, 01:13 AM
Christopher Columbus! He thought the earth was smaller than it was; he went with the smallest estimate from ancient Greek sources. He was an optimist. Maybe not the best sailor;grounded and wrecked the ship he was directly commanding (Santa Maria). Very lucky guy. Good enough for me.


Plenty of people probably accidentally "discovered" the Americas before Columbus, but most were dead when their boats washed up on shore. Of those who survived, nobody seems to have made it back. The Vikings failed to live up to their tough guy reputation and were scared off; didn't bother to tell anybody.


Anybody who's descended from native Americans and who'd like to go back to the Neolithic, by all means refuse to celebrate Columbus.

evan price
October 10, 2006, 04:21 AM
Actually I celebrate Columbo day. Peter Falk was great!

mike101
October 10, 2006, 05:21 AM
Howdy- Actually, VD was something that Columbus' men picked up from the natives, according to the History Channel, anyway.;)

Columbus was not a nice man. He was the first Conquistador. He discovered San Salvadore, not America. Amerigo Vespucci discovered South America. So who the hell did discover North America?
Does anyone know?

I'm half Italian, and I used to start fights with my relatives by bringing up the fact that the Vikings were here 500 years before Columbus. Italians don't react well to that.

So, who was supposed to have been here when the
Indians arrived? Anyone know where I could find info on that?

I'm proud of my Italian half, but not because of Columbus. I'm proud because of the Romans. They whacked everybody, and took their land. :evil:

tellner
October 10, 2006, 11:54 AM
The Vikings had other problems like weather changes and politics back home that made the whole Vinland colonization less attractive.

Now the Basque were probably the first Europeans to come and stay for a while. Long before Columbus they were bringing back stockfish from they wouldn't say where. Trust a fisherman to keep quiet about where they're biting :) You need a lot of space to spread out the cod to dry it for stockfish. It's something you do on shore, not in barrels on shipboard. The best guess is that they had discovered the Grand Banks fisheries and were drying the fish in what is now Nova Scotia.

Two excellent books since we're on the subject:

Why We Eat What We Eat (http://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Eat-What-Columbus/dp/0671797913/sr=1-1/qid=1160491585/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9472460-4139033?ie=UTF8&s=books) by Raymond Sokolov

and

Salt: A World History (http://www.amazon.com/Salt-World-History-Mark-Kurlansky/dp/0142001619/sr=1-2/qid=1160491632/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-9472460-4139033?ie=UTF8&s=books) by Mark Kurlansky

Keith Wheeler
October 10, 2006, 11:58 AM
Bottom line: there isn't a human being alive who doesn't have ancestors who whacked *somebody* on the head and took his land.

Regretable - but a fact of the human condition. Has no effect on how I deal with my next door neighbor, or the guy down the block.

Obviously you don't live near a reservation.

Correia
October 10, 2006, 12:15 PM
Sailors from Portugal also fished the area which is most likely Nova Scotia long before Colombus.

Colombus, however, was not nearly as stupid as some of you would make him out to be. He was armed with better intel that most of you give him credit for also. There is evidence that he had several maps in his possession indicating land masses in this region. His own journals make reference to this.

The main thing about Colombus is not that he discovered anything, but that he was the man that threw open the gate to European colonization of the new world. Whether you think that is a good thing or not doesn't really matter. His actions are one of the main things that have created the world we live in today.

Tons of other people discovered North America first, but Colombus made it into a business. Capitalism at its finest.

Heck, I'm one of those people that think the book 1421 makes a good case that the Chinese even managed to hit North America. (Yes, I know the author got several things wrong, but I think the arguments are plausible)

As for the thing about being a conquistador, killing the natives, whatever. That is human nature, and was the culture of the time. It is always convenient to sit back in our comfy air-conditioned rooms, in our society where our greatest health risk is that we have too much food to eat, and complain about the actions of our ancestors.

I'm more than likely descended from Gaspar Correia, historian, who sailed with Vasco De Gama. Vasco and a couple hundred Portagees managed to kill tens of thousands of Indians (not North American, the real ones). They were rough, violent, ambitious, and meaner than hell.

Good for them. History wasn't written by nice guys.

I think that the 1400-1500s were one of the most fascinating periods of history.

Stauble
October 10, 2006, 04:37 PM
So who the hell did discover North America?

i believe it was Juan Ponce de Leon. who set sail from puerto rico i think and landed in Florida

in columbus' defence im glad he found this hemisphere so i dont have too live in Europe

tellner
October 10, 2006, 04:40 PM
Who discovered America? Some nameless guy who crossed the Beringia landbridge about 30,000 years ago.

El Tejon
October 10, 2006, 04:46 PM
tellner, there is another excellent history of how fishing drove history that I just finished a couple of months ago. It is entitled Fish on Friday.:)

Great book, I highly recommend it: http://www.amazon.com/Fish-Friday-Brian-M-Fagan/dp/0465022847

Axman
October 10, 2006, 05:06 PM
Who discovered North America? Probably a neandrethal named Og Mogwog who went out hunting sabre-toothed tigers and got lost. He then continued across the ice floe and found Can-uh-duh where he decided to settle down in Toe-ron-toe. The food was plentiful but there was something missing so he relocated to Cah-net-tee-cut, then he invented the gun. The rest is history!

(Disclaimer: The above story is purely fiction and in no way based on a real caveman!) LOL

tellner
October 10, 2006, 06:35 PM
El Tejon, it looks very interesting. I'll be sure to tell my wife that it's not just fishing. I'm out on the river Sunday afternoon building civilization. That's much more important than cleaning the doggie land mines out of the back yard :)

ArmedBear
October 10, 2006, 07:07 PM
Obviously you don't live near a reservation.

I do.

The ancestors of the inhabitants thereof whacked someone to get the land they live on, just like the ancestors of the "Native Hawaiians" whacked the inhabitants of their islands. But that's another story.

Anyway, our reservations are a fine example of Capitalism at work, and the White Trash descendents of the Cowboys are busy giving their wealth back to the descendants of Indians they once displaced, as fast as they can take it. We've got Vegas West here now. More power to 'em.

In all of Biology (we are biological organisms, remember) there are the quick and the dead. The game changes, and people change places on occasion.

Either way, I don't give a crap about Columbus. As I said, we celebrate the arrival of firearms in the Western Hemisphere. The Vikings didn't have any.

DRZinn
October 10, 2006, 10:04 PM
Plenty of people probably accidentally "discovered" the Americas before Columbus, but most were dead when their boats washed up on shore. Of those who survived, nobody seems to have made it back. The Vikings failed to live up to their tough guy reputation and were scared off; didn't bother to tell anybody.Book idea: a fully equipped European ship washes up, intact, on the shores of North America and the Indians figure out how to copy all that cool stuff. Then when the colonists arrive they have a problem....

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