[XD Fan]

I was talking to local LEO today who suggested that he could routinely hit four inch groups at 100 yds. with his Glock 19 w/ compensted barrel. That sounds like reall good shooting to me, as I am lucky to hit five (Okay, make that eight.) inch groups at 25 yards (Yeah, I know, I need more practice.). Does anyone else experience that kind of accuracy with their Glocks?

[two tone]

not from the factory...

[distra]

That sounds like chest thumbing to me. :scrutiny: Take him to the range, buy the ammo and witness his 4" groups @ 100yrds. :cool:

[Hanzo581]

it is even possible to obtain that kind of accuaracy from such a short barrel and pistol cartridges?

[two tone]

perhaps a .357 sig and a 6 inch barrel. fear that....

[2TransAms]

"Take him to the range, buy the ammo and witness his 4" groups @ 100yrds."... I've been shooting with plenty of people who could do amazing feats with firearms but had a bad day when I was there.;)

Oh yeah 5" and even 8" groups offhand at 25 yards is nothing to poo-poo. 5" is pretty good if you ask me.

[HighVelocity]

4" at 100 yards with a 19 would indeed be pretty impressive. :scrutiny:

[HorseSoldier]

Does he use that Glock shoulder stock and bipod kit I've seen online? :)

[gaven]

First have him shoot 4inch groups at 25 yards routinely far you with a short barreled 19 . Then start beleiveing anything else he says. By the way i can shoot 4 inch groups routinely at 25 yards with my 19 and shooting 4 inch groups at 100 yards routinely with a stock 19 and standard ammo would be next to impossible . And if he can he truly is the master.

[Lonestar]

I'm happy if I'm hitting 4" groups with a Beretta Storm CARBINE with iron sights at 100 yards. Hitting the target at 100 yards with a 9mm pistol is possible but that far out it is not going to be tight, unless he has a super custom glock. :neener:

[10-Ring]

:rolleyes: 4" group at 100 yards? I would take that bet ;) Not that I could do anything close to that...just tough to believe.

[robctwo]

A guy I know was talking about hitting pop cans "all day" at 100 yards with a .45 auto. Short answer was that after shooting at a pop can "all day" with a number of very accurate .45s he wasn't hitting pop cans at all.

My goal is to consistently shoot all my rounds into a 8" circle off hand rapid fire at 25 yds. On a good day a lot of them are inside 4". On a bad day 1/8 of them are not on the paper.

Is your friend using a scope on the Glock?

[SoCalShooter]

My friends glock (with me using it) does a 4 inch group at 25 yards its a glock 21. That LEO was making it up. You cant even rework a glock enough to get that kind of accuracy out of it.

[M2 Carbine]

I'll give him $5 every time he hits inside 4 inches if he will give me a dollar every time he hits outside 4 inches.:)

Repeatedly hitting something of reasonable size at 100 yards isn't difficult but shooting small groups with a pistol at 100 yards takes an exceptional shot.

Last week at 100 yards with my S&W Model 60.
Didn't miss, but far from a 4 inch group.:D

(Most of the pasters are from a Bretta Minx 22 short shot earlier. Missed 3 times out of 14 shots.:o )

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/SWmod60100yards.jpg

[M2 Carbine]

Medula Oblongata
But there is NO FRIGGIN WAY that anyone can get 4" groups at 100M from any handgun, offhand or rested.

Well that's not entirely true if the handgun is this one.:D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/KTPLRhand.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/PLRtarget52grSierra1.jpg

[gaven]

M2 CARBINE, THATS GOOD SHOOTING AT 100 YARDS WITH THAT PISTOL.

[SDC]

The best I've been able to get out of any of mine (a G22) was a 6-shot group at 30 yards that I could cover with the palm of my hand; this was during an IPSC match that required a prone firing position.

[M2 Carbine]

gaven
M2 CARBINE, THATS GOOD SHOOTING AT 100 YARDS WITH THAT PISTOL.


Thanks but it's not difficult (try it).
It just takes me a while before I get the bullet drop figured out with those short barrel pistols. You can see a lot of low holes.

There were doubters on a Glock Talk thread when a poster said he was getting close to a bowling pin at 100 yards with his Beretta Jetfire 25cal. I thought I'd see how my Beretta Minx 22 short would do (sitting).
My Minx shoots low and left so I put a bullseye high and right for an aiming point. Shot 14 rounds but can't account for 3. The pasters are under the bullet holes, including two in the bullseye target.
The Minx did better than I thought it would.:)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/22ShortBerettaat100yds.jpg

[270Win]

4" at 100 yards is almost an impossibility. It's safe to say he's pulling your leg. Maybe he's a little confused about feet vs. yards...

[M2 Carbine]

I like distance shooting and some guns will do surprisingly well.

This was my first Polish P-64 9x18.
50 yards, standing, two hands.
The gun shoots to the right a little.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/P-6450yards.jpg

[BevrFevr]

I saw the guy on american shooter shoot a balloon @ 100yds with a s&w snub nose 38. NO BS!

Great episode! he actually was pointing the pistol at about a 30 degree angle to compensate for bullet drop. An amazing amazing shot.

same guy could shoot dimes out of the air with his six gun. mental block on the name though.

he was out shot by Byron
Ferguson who used a bow to shoot asprins out of the air. This is not a joke. As far as I can tell it really happened.

Man that was a GREAT tv program. I miss it.

so tough shots can be made buy the right guy.

edited to change 400 yds to 100 yds.


-bevr

[dm1333]

I'd put that one in the same category as guys saying that are shooting .3 inch groups at 50 yards with a .22. A lot of people say they do it but I haven't seen many do it in front of me. BTW my best 1 shot group with my TC is .22.:p

[BevrFevr]

Maybe the greatest living pistol shot. He can shoot a single action army like a machine gun.

check out his web site

http://www.bob-munden.com

-bevr

[Desertscout]

Most of my Glocks will shoot inside of 12" at 100 yards. My 34 and my 20 will do slightly better. They will all shoot less than 3" at 25 and a couple of them will shoot less than 2" at 25. At 7 yards, my 17 will place 5 shots inside of a dime.

"But there is NO FRIGGIN WAY that anyone can get 4" groups at 100M from any handgun, offhand or rested"
I wouldn't bet a whole hell of a lot of money on that. I would have to assume that you mean a service pistol. I've had several scoped handguns that would shoot in the 4-6" range and a couple Contenders that would under and inch.

[M2 Carbine]

Medula Oblongata
M2-
You are correct, SOME handguns can be very accurately shot at 100M. What I should have said was "Pistol caliber" handguns, factory configuration, etc.
But very nice shooting. Been thinking about picking up one o them Kel Tec's with the nice handguards, etc. Looks like fun and possibly more balanced than my AR pistol.
nice lookin gun, BTW.

Yes, I was just being a wise guy.:D

The Kel Tec PLR is very accurate for the type gun it is. I expect very small 100 yard groups from my TC .223 but the KT PLR has been a surprise.

I have to see what my Bushmaster .223 pistol will do. For some reason I haven't shot it at 100 yards yet.

[jlh26oo]

I was talking to local LEO today who suggested that he could routinely hit four inch groups at 100 yds. with his Glock 19 ... Does anyone else experience that kind of accuracy with their Glocks?

Grrrr!! NO! And boy does that make me mad at GLOCK owners, going around touting that kind of accuracy! <shakes fist> Just like one of them to make some outlandish claim like that. But anyways, glad you shared. Gave me the opportunity to answer your question regarding how accurate glock's AREN'T. Thanks XD Fan!

[Desertscout]

Gave me the opportunity to answer your question regarding how accurate glock's AREN'T.
OK. So you have your opportunity. Answer the question and please be prepared to back it up with something besides rhetoric.

[jlh26oo]

My friend suggested his Honda Accord could routinely run single digit quarter mile times. That sounds pretty fast, because on a good day my Ford Mustang only runs high 13's (ok 14's). So anyone else getting that kind of speed from their Accords? :confused:

[plexreticle]

The guy is a liar.

I don't understand why people comp guns like the 19.

[GunNut]

It's funny were are all arguing how about something someone was told by someone else. It's a very good possibilty that what the LEO said and what was heard was something completely different. It wouldn't be the first time information was messed up.


Having said that, obviously there is not a semi-auto "service" weapon made that can shoot 4" off hand groups at 100yards.

Glock's, XD's, USP's and most other sevice type guns are more accurate than the majority of handgun shooters. To say a Glock specifically isn't accurate, is a load of c**p. All guns when shot out of a ransom rest will shoot better than even the best handgun shooter, shooting off hand.

Some people shoot Glock's very accurately and can't hit the broadside of a barn with a XD, USP or whatever. That is why we should all shoot as many guns as possible and pick the one that is accurate and comfortable to shoot for yourself.

[AK103K]

It's funny were are all arguing how about something someone was told by someone else.
There ya go. :)

Having said that, obviously there is not a semi-auto "service" weapon made that can shoot 4" off hand groups at 100yards.
He may very well have done it. He just didnt mention that he was standing at 95 when he did. ;)


Not to belittle Bob Munden or his abilities, he is a great shot, the thing with the 2" .38, and I believe it might have been at 200 yards too, the balloons were on a fair sized steel plate. Any hit to the plate would most likely have popped the balloon. Still, it was a good trick. Since we got his ears burning talking about him, he does more than just shoot, he also does real nice trigger jobs on SA .45's. He did one on a Cimmaron I had and it was something to marvel at. :)

[bluto]

I was talking to local LEO today who suggested that he could routinely hit four inch groups at 100 yds. with his Glock 19 w/ compensted barrel.

Five shots offhand once in awhile? Maybe. Routinely? Ho. Ho. Ho.

Medula Oblongata - That's some very nice shooting. That Elite is some blaster. Now I'm not a big Glock fan. I only own a G22 and I shoot it very rarely. But I think Glocks are probably capable of pretty good accuracy. Mine does have a KKM match barrel and I can shoot all my Sigs more accurately, but Glocks do have potential. I think with practice I could probably tighten up those groups a bit more.

I circled the one that got away @ 25yds.

[gaven]

(I just have never seen a glock capable of better than 4" at 15 yards, and if memory serves, thats about what Glock claims.)


THATS NOT REALLY ACCURATE, IT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU PRACTICE AND HOW MUCH YOU SHOOT . AT 15 YARDS I CAN SHOOT EMPTY SHOTGUN SHELLS OFF THE BACKBOARDS WITH MY G-19. IM NOT SAYING I CAN HIT THEM EVERY SHOT BUT I CAN SET UP 4 OF THEM AND CLEAN THEM OFF BEFORE THE CLIPS EMPTY. BUT I SHOOT A LOT ALSO.

[Desertscout]

Desertscout-

I'm not going to call you a liar. In fact, if you say its so, I have no reason not to believe you. I just have never seen a glock capable of better than 4" at 15 yards, and if memory serves, thats about what Glock claims.

But if yours is capable, I'd sure like to see the pictures!

My shop and my range is open to anyone at anytime that would like contest my claims. If one claims that their Glock is not accurate and would be willing to bring it with them, I'm betting that we could either prove otherwise or fix it.

The first pic is two different groups of 5 shots each from a standing position at 7 yards with my G17. The bottom group is a little sloppy but the top one would have been a one-bullet-diameter hole had I not pulled the third shot out at about11:00.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/Desertscout1/IMG_ORH.jpg

This pic is my G34 when it was new with no mods. 9 of the 10 shots are in less than 2.5". This group was fired from a kneeling position at 20 yards. This gun will do considerably better than this with my handloads.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/Desertscout1/IMG_G34kneel.jpg

This group is out of my G23 at 21 yards from a kneeling position. The 3 shots on the left were Independence 165 gr. FMJ and are not part of the measured group which was 5 shots (PMC 165 gr. FMJ) in 2.25".
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/Desertscout1/IMG_G23target.jpg

These are certainly not earth-shattering groups but I think it's safe to assume that they would improve considerably from a sandbag rest with a load that each gun likes.

I am available at any time to go to the range and substantiate my claims and pics.

[Texas48]

A similar post on another forum prompted me to do something I’ve been needing to do for awhile anyhow; unlimber my old S&W Model 29-2.
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/9161/29mangascw8.jpg
I’ve shot a lot of 29’s & 629’s over the years, and owned several. I settled on the 4” barrel long ago as being the best compromise of power, accuracy & portability. The keeper of the bunch has been an old nickel 29-2 from about 1980.

Anyhow I dug the old gun out and hung a B27 at 100 yards. I was shooting my standard hunting load of a 250 Keith over 22 grains of Winchester 296. This isn’t a firewall load, and no I haven’t chronographed it yet. Judging from what my friends who have chrono’ed similar loads have told me, it’s humming along about 1200 fps from the 4” gun- enough to shoot through any whitetail. The load isn’t bad to shoot from the 4” gun.

I stapled a 6 ½ x 8 ½ inch piece of red construction paper over X, and started blazing away. First group was fired standing, over the pickup door. That one produced about all the flyers you see in the photo. The rest were fired over the cab, sitting in a lawn chair in the bed. The range bag was used for a rest.

By the third six I had all shots either on or cutting the red aiming point. They are highlighted in yellow and comprise a group of about six inches.
http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/8196/29at100hb6.jpg

Most groups looked about like what you see below; four in 3 ½ inches, with flyers by yours truly making the total group about twice that size.
http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/3370/100typical44oy0.jpg

Targets and general plinking with a .44 at distance are great fun, but I probably won’t shoot at a deer much past 50 yards with it. On a good day the old gun will print 2-2 ½” groups at that distance, right on top of the front sight. I’m pronouncing it ready to hunt with.

[Desertscout]

Good shootin', Tex. That's about what I would expect out of a good gun, good load and a steady hand. My Super Blackhawk will perform similarly with my fave pet load which is a hard-cast, gas-checked 300 Gr. WFN over 22.5 gr. of 296.

[Hanzo581]

I think the point was the guy what talking about the LEO hitting those groups with a standard Glock at 100 yards, not 21 yards, or even 50, we are talking 100. It which case I would indeed bet a lot on him lying, rest or no rest

[Desertscout]

I think the point was the guy what talking about the LEO hitting those groups with a standard Glock at 100 yards, not 21 yards, or even 50, we are talking 100. It which case I would indeed bet a lot on him lying, rest or no rest
That's true but I was also challenged over my earlier post so I just posted some pics.

[Texas48]

Thanks Scout,

I used to shoot almost the exact same load you mentioned (my 300's were sans the gas check) from this old gun and a Redhawk...they're even more accurate than the 250's. But the load was a bit much for the old 29, and loosened her up until S&W got her back for a rebuild. And a fine job they did.

I'll have tone that 300 grain load down a tad and try it again. Good work with the poly-popper, BTW.

[Desertscout]

That is a pretty stiff load but I killed 2 elk and several deer with it and it dropped them all like they'd been hit by lightning. I used it mainly in my Redhawk also but they worked fine in the SBH. With the GC, they even shoot pretty well in my little rifle.
My old stand-by load for my SBH is 22.6 grains of 296 over a 240 grain JHP or JSP.

[Desertscout]

My apologies. I din't mean to imply that you DID call me a liar and I didn't take it that way but the tone still seemed a little challenging. I was just trying to substantiate my posts.

[Desertscout]

I like to see pics of targets and the guns that shot them.
And here's the guns that shot them...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/Desertscout1/G17rs.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/Desertscout1/IMG_panelstipple.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/Desertscout1/IMG_23onblack.jpg

[Desertscout]

Yeah, they've had just about everything done to them that we do here. Being my personal guns, they are the ones that get experimented on evrytime we start something new. Grip reduction, stippling, forward "cocking" grooves, rounded trigger guard, oval extended mag release, extended slide stop, night sights and some trigger work pretty much covers it. I've a couple of DuraCoated ones too.
As long as it's something I can use, I actually insist on permanently altering my gun. I hate having to adjust or re-do temporary stuff.

[Bix]

This is not a four-inch group; but it is a Glock 19 at 100 yards [using express sights, to boot].

http://www.xssights.com/assets/XS_Sights_Demo_LoRes-1.wmv

[pablo45]

A couple of year's ago gun's and weapon's magazine did a field test with certain firearm's to test this theory. They used a glock23,a walther p99, and a les baer 1911. They started out at 25 yard's then went all the way to 200 yard's:what: (no bench rest or anything like that). The 1911 was able to acheive that 4 inch group and the glock and walther were not to far behind. Even at 200 yard's they were able to hit the target( which was a human size) 2 out of 4 time's. After reading that nothing would suprise me about the compact pistol's and shooter's. I found it to be a great article wish i still had it to post the exact spec's.

[The Lone Haranguer]

:scrutiny:

IMO your friend is exaggerating the range while simultaneously shrinking the group size. ;) Four inches at 100 yards is 4 MOA. An exceptional Glock might be capable mechanically of 2 inches at 25 yards, which would be 8 MOA. Couple that with the rather poor sight picture (if he is still using the standard open sights), I would venture to say it is an impossibility.

[Desertscout]

An exceptional Glock might be capable mechanically of 2 inches at 25 yards, which would be 8 MOA. Couple that with the rather poor sight picture (if he is still using the standard open sights), I would venture to say it is an impossibility.
For the most part, what you say is true but it certainly does NOT take an "exceptional" Glock to shoot 2" at 25 yards. Most any Glock with ammo that it likes and a good hand behind the wheel can do that. I would certainly agree about the sight picture though.

[MachIVshooter]

100 yard 4" groups with a service pistol are all but impossible, even from a ransom. 12" offhand 100 yard groups from a service pistol are possible, but not easy. Best I can do consistently with such a handgun from a standing position (one or two hands) at 100 yards is put all or nearly all the rounds on the lid of a 55 gallon drum. That's nearly a 2 foot target. I would doubt the average LEO could even pull that off.

Heck, sub-4 MOA groups offhand with scoped rifle are not easy.

I own 3 pistols that I can routinely shoot 2.5-4 MOA @ 100 yards (off sand bags). All three have fixed barrels and optical sights. They are a Kel-Tec PLR-16, A Desert Eagle 6" .50 and a 6-7/8" Ruger Mk II Gov't. Target.

[JohnKSa]

I've never managed much better than 10 shots into 3" at 25 yards with a Glock--that would be about 12MOA. The best 10 shot 25 yard group that I've ever gotten with a handgun was maybe 1.5" at 25 yards with a Ruger MkII Target. That's still 6MOA.

There are probably people who can shoot 4MOA at 100 yards with a handgun. I doubt they're using Glocks.

[Desertscout]

I doubt they're using Glocks....
or Sigs or Kimbers or HK's or Berettas or.....

[Thin Black Line]

I've seen a couple people over the years hit paper plates, no rest, at
100 yds. One was a custom 1911 by a guy who builds them for a living,
the other was a stock, "bottom" of the line, Kimber. Granted, a paper
plate is not 4", but still impressive.

We need some Marines to chime in here on 1911 feats at 100 yds......

[.38 Special]

Ross Seyfried did an article a few years back in which he commisioned a custom Ruger Bisley 5 shot gun in .45 Colt, added a scope, and shot some 1" groups from a rest at 100 yards.

He also noted that it wouldn't have been remotely possible with iron sights.

I've got nothing against Glock and nothing against LEOs. But if anyone on the planet tells me he shoots 4" groups offhand with an iron sighted handgun, I go all Missouri on him: "Show Me".

[jlh26oo]

I just have never seen a glock capable of better than 4" at 15 yards

WOW. The shooters you know suck. Hard.

[lamazza]

I would be happy to hit paper at 100 meters with a handgun-forget about groups at that range

[MD_Willington]

I would be happy to hit paper at 100 meters with a handgun-forget about groups at that range


lol.. me too !

[kir_kenix]

for me, it would just be a waste of lead to even attempt such a feat. im not saying its impossible, but i am saying that its not probable. im not so sure locked in a vise 4" groups can be expected at that range. if the guy can back it up, take some vid and post it, id love to see it done.

[stevelyn]

I'm calling BS on the 4" groups @ 100 yrds with anything other than a scoped Contender.
However, I can routinely hit a regulation Pepper Popper at a lazed 100 yrds with my G-22.

[M2 Carbine]

Yesterday, 11:00 PM #56
Thin Black Line
We need some Marines to chime in here on 1911 feats at 100 yds......


Well since you asked but this was a few years after my Marine Corps time.:D

In 1967 a BS artist at work made the statement that the GI 1911 was inaccurate and so underpowered that you could catch the bullets at 100 yards.
Yeah, I know the guy was an idiot about guns.

I told him I have a GI 45 that I bought from the government, through the NRA (1961 NIB for $17).

I said the gun will put at least 4-5 rounds out of 7 in a large Folgers coffee can at 100 yards. Of course he said BS.

When I got home I put a page of black photo album at my 100 yard (3/8 inch steel) backstop. I sat on the ground with my back against a big dog house and rested the gun between my knees.

It took two mags to get the correct elevation. I fired the third magazine "for record" If the coffee can had been in front of the paper 5 bullets would have hit it.

The next morning I took the target and some copper and lead slivers, that had been the 45 FMJ bullets to work it show the guy.
Of course he said he didn't believe it.
I said OK, "You name the bet and we'll see."
He still kept talking but wouldn't bet.

As it happened one of my Army helicopter students was the most decorated man on post. He got a Silver Star as a chopper door gunner after being shot down.

The blow hard told my student, "Your instructor is FOS. He can't hit anything at 100 yards with a 45".
I heard later that my student told him, "If Mr B********* says he can do it, you had better not bet against him. I got my Silver Star using the 45."


I later read the student's Silver Star award.
When shot down the chopper crashed upside down, hanging the pilot in the harness with a broken back and jamming the M60 in the door frame.
The gunner had only his 1911A1 and a few boxes of 45 in a 30 cal ammo can.
They had crashed in a big rice paddy behind a dike.
When the gunner looked over the dike there was a single VC 7 yards away. The gunner killed him.

The award goes on to tell how the gunner shot a BUNCH of VC that came at him one at a time across the rice paddy. ( I don't remember how many)

When they were rescued it was measured that the gunner had killed the VC from 7 yards to 97 yards with the 45.

No one could figure out why the VC came at him one at a time, except maybe they were green troops and thought the gunner was trying to sucker them out into the rice paddy where he could open up on them with the M60 (which of course they knew he had).


BTW I did teach him to fly.:)

[Thin Black Line]

Now that's what I'm talking about.

[ndh87]

I have a glock 17, and im not the best shot in the world, and i definately dont get enough practice, being away at school and all, BUT from my experience 4" groups at 100 yrds with a G19...yea, thats easy, i can do it at 200 yrds with my 17:rolleyes:

[BamBam-31]

For the price, Glock 9mm's (dont' have enough experience with the other makes) are VERY accurate. When I really concentrate, I can shoot quarter-sized five shot groups at 50 ft. with my Glock 17. I can also hit my 10" steel spinner at 100 yds. about 50-60% of the time with the same gun. Both standing, offhand. The gun's fairly capable, if the shooter's capable.

That said, I've yet to see a pistol shot who can hold a 4" five shot group at 100 yds. consistently (with ANY kind of handgun). Hell, IIRC, that was the accuracy standard for the old M1 Garand rifles. Maybe it was the group of a lifetime? I've even watched Bruce Gray shoot, and he's famous for shooting freakishly tight groups. Even with his tricks (like pressing only when the sight is in the center third of his wobble zone), a 4" group at 100 yds. seems highly implausible.

IOW, I'd bet good $$$ your friend's full of :cuss: . ;)

[M2 Carbine]

One more 1911 story.

About 1968 another flight instructor at the Army school asked me if I had a 1911 that I'd sell him. He had a little girl and wanted a big gun that she couldn't pick up or possibly work the slide.

I said I have a beautiful chrome GI 1911A1 in a nice presentation case. I said I'd sell it to him for $75, but with two conditions.
First he must learn to shoot to my satisfaction. I would sell him my reloads at cost.
Second, if he decided to get rid of the gun he must give me first crack at it at a fair price.

The first day after all the safety, etc, instruction we started at about 15 yards.
I said that black paper is the chest of a BG in your house. Empty the gun as fast as you can but make every shot count. He shot everything but the paper, including a couple rounds into the ground.

Of course he started blaming the "inaccurate" GI 45.
I loaded the gun and said do you see that green thing against the 100 yard backstop? That's a last years Texas license plate.
I put one round over, one round under and hit the plate with the third round.
The guy couldn't believe it. There was no more talk about the gun being inaccurate.

After several weeks of interesting, fun shooting the man was doing all right.

He came out the house for some more practice.
I said today is final examination.
The second license plate is at the 100 yard backstop. Hit it.

He was doubtful but hit it on the third shot.
I said, you have graduated.:D

You never saw a guy so happy about his shooting.:)

[Bazooka Joe71]

M2 Carbine, i dont know what was better....That first story or:

I told him I have a GI 45 that I bought from the government, through the NRA (1961 NIB for $17).



Thanks for sharing those stories!

[Otherguy Overby]

I've an S&W model 66 with a 4 inch barrel. I don't shoot it much but I did take it to the range one day. Anyway we'd set up a bunch of bowling pins out there and a friend was close by so I said the infamous words: "Watch this" and took a shot at a pesky pin out there at 100 yards. There was enough of a berm to see just how I missed (just over the shoulder of the pin. I adjusted my sight picture and shot again and knocked the pin over.

Of course I didn't shoot the 66 again that day... :)

(I'm really not that good) I musta stayed at a Holiday Inn, or something the night before...

[MD_Willington]

For the record, I'm not saying that other people can't make those shots, I'm saying personally I don't have enough experience/skill to make those shots with that kind of grouping...

I'm new to pistol shooting, been doing it on and off for the past 5 years or so... Now that I have my own pistol, I'm hoping to improve that.

[MachIVshooter]

I'm calling BS on the 4" groups @ 100 yrds with anything other than a scoped Contender.

There are a number of handguns that will shoot well under 4" @ 100, but none of them are service pistols.

As I said before, I have 3 handguns that will shoot 2.5-4 MOA @ 100 from a sandbagged rest. All three are autoloaders. All three also have scopes and fixed barrels.

[crunker]

I guess it could be possible if you had match-grade barrels. But that would be some fancy shooting.

[JohnKSa]

I just have never seen a glock capable of better than 4" at 15 yards.http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=40531&d=1148884434
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=40531&d=1148884434

Now you have. This group was shot with a Glock 17 that I bought used--it was a range rental gun before I got it. No, it's not been modified nor upgraded in any way.

Better than 4" at 15 yards, but still a LONG way from 4" at 100 yards. ;)

[Reyn]

Some of my better targets. All shot offhand. G20 10mm

28yds
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/reyn61/100_2238.jpg

25yds
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/reyn61/100_2236.jpg

31yds
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/reyn61/100_2235.jpg

32yds
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/reyn61/100_2231.jpg

35yds
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/reyn61/100_2234.jpg

35yds 2in
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/reyn61/100_2230.jpg

35yds 5.5in
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/reyn61/100_2229.jpg

60yds 5.5in
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/reyn61/100_2233.jpg

[Texas48]

"Non-vulcanized" .45 ACP's...

Sig 220 (http://www.thesixgunjournal.net/sig.html) at 50 yards; five Triton 230 XTP's (1100 fps) in 3 3/4"

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4771/sig220at50do1.jpg
or, five WW/USA 230 FMJ at 50, from a 1991A1 Colt (http://www.thesixgunjournal.net/colt1991a1nrm.html)
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4194/91a1fiveat50bl3.jpg

[Reyn]

These are with my G22 .40 Offhand

28yds
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/reyn61/100_2250.jpg

45yds
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/reyn61/100_2249.jpg

61yds
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/reyn61/100_2246.jpg

25yds
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/reyn61/100_2245.jpg

50yds
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/reyn61/100_2242.jpg

32yds
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/reyn61/100_2241.jpg

45yds
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/reyn61/100_2239.jpg

[Autolycus]

His claim sounds like BS. Glocks are great guns but I dont think many pistols can make that claim.

[DFW1911]

Wow. That's good. Better than I am :D

[islandphish]

If he heard that story correctly, then I would bet he knows a bullcrap artist. Yes, wave the flag. Does the room stink when that guy walks in? Are his eyes brown? Does he make YOU fart?

Service pistol at 100? no way. I took my USP out the other day and at one hundred fired one full mag. five hits on about a 2 1/2 foot square box, out of 12. I didn't think that was too bad considering I had to get my elevation, and new sights(mepro, and yes I'm making excuses). Even so, it was line up and then lift, cuz you can't see the target when you are holding 2-3ft above the target. I absolutely don't believe that guy.

Off topic, but important to me. Does anyone know the exact dimensions of a pop can? :neener:

[Texas48]

Glock Accuracy Claim

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was talking to local LEO today who suggested that he could routinely hit four inch groups at 100 yds. with his Glock 19 w/ compensted barrel....XD Fan

I think we have gotten so involved in posting targets and calling BS, that we may have lost some objectivity here.

I will tell you what 30 years of packing service pistols, conducting LE firearms training, and pushing myself for peak accuracy, have taught me.

There are a lot of revolvers, which are capable of that degree of mechanical accuracy. In fact, 4 MOA is pretty much my "cut off" point for revolver accuracy. If they won't shoot this well, I won't keep them around the place.

Service pistols are another story. We expect them to be reliable; fine accuracy is not something we typically expect from them. One of our more prolific handgun scribes has repeatedly stated in print, that 4 to 4.5 inches, at 25 yards, is all we should expect from them.

Now that right there, is "Bool-sheet."

Run of the mill Glocks will routinely shoot twice that well. If the aforementioned “compensated barrel” in the Glock XD Fan mentioned, also happens to be a fitted “match” barrel, it could in fact be capable of 4 MOA. It is no great shakes to get a 1911 to exhibit this kind of accuracy. The group below, fired with a mildly-accurized $335.00 Auto Ordnance WWII Model, has four rounds in an inch and the flyer was most certainly MY fault. It was shot with the stock barrel a WW “White Box” JHP’s.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1255/4303676/9056763/132048146.jpg

Don’t kid yourselves. There are some service pistols out there capable of 4 MOA- I carry one every day. Now, I can’t shoot it that well every day, on demand, under any lighting conditions, etc. Therein lies the rub. There have been times when I could and have produced 4 MOA handgun groups repeatedly, from a rest and at a full 100 yards, on a GOOD day. If I told you I could do it “routinely” however, I would be as FOS as the proverbial Christmas Goose.

Maybe XD Fan’s cop buddy is really that good; some people are. They are pretty rare, particularly in law enforcement.

[Desertscout]

Even so, it was line up and then lift, cuz you can't see the target when you are holding 2-3ft above the target.
If you can't see the target at loang distances, you're not using the correct sight picture. Instead of holding over the target, you should be holding the FS on the target as usual but with more of it showing above the RS.

And BTW, if you're holding 2-3' above the target at 100 yards, you're not likely to hit what you're aiming at. With any of my Glock .40's, about 9-10" is all the extra elevation needed at 100 yards. Even a .45 doesn't need 2-3' at that range.

[scurtis_34471]

Some of those big .460 and .500 revolvers are supposed to be accurate to 150 yards with a scope, but those things are insanely powerful and have really long barrels.

[LeonCarr]

A LEO shooting 4 inch groups at 100 yards with a Glock 19C? I don't recall him mentioning how many shots were in the group :).

In my experience most service type semi-autos (4" barrel or longer) and most service type revolvers (4" barrel or longer), with practice and a load it likes, will shoot five shot groups inside a paper plate (9 1/2 inches or less) at 100 yards. In my experience 4 inch groups at 100 yards are possible with magnum revolvers, and the various long barreled single shot handguns can do close to or better than an inch at 100 yards in some cases, but the above are usually accomplished with a seasoned shooter, good quality factory ammo or handloads, and shooting off of sandbags or prone.

I know, Bob Munden can pop a balloon at 200 yards with a snub nose .38 revolver and all that stuff, but I will almost guarantee that he practices that shot everyday for several days before the cameras start rolling.

Ask the LEO to go shooting with you at your local 100 yard range, and see if he can do it. He will either show up and do it, or make excuses why he can't go with you. Offering a trip to the range usually shuts up the "non-hackers".

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[kbheiner7]

I can't do that from a rest with my uber-accurate 1911, I can pretty much gaurantee nobody can do that with a Glock.

[possum]

I was talking to local LEO today who suggested that he could routinely hit four inch groups at 100 yds. with his Glock 19 w/ compensted barrel.

heck he must be x Delta or something, probally learned how to do that as a "ranger in the air force"!:D

sorry had to take that from another thread!

I would definetly take him out to the range, and see if he can even hit a target out that far with a pistol first and then, you can go from there!

[islandphish]

desertscout, thanks for the advice on the sight picture. I will try that when I shoot at 100yds again. fwiw, I guessed it was 2-3ft, I was 100yds away and just raising higher when I saw puffs of dirt on the ground. Maybe it was just 1-2ft.

[Plink]

I was talking to local LEO today who suggested that he could routinely hit four inch groups at 100 yds. with his Glock 19 w/ compensted barrel.

I have a State Trooper friend who makes similar claims about his shooting ability. I've been shooting with him a number of times and have never seen anything even close to his boasts.

Glocks are fairly accurate for their design, considering that they're built to loose tolerances deliberately to increase reliability, like most duty sidearms. If they were that accurate out of the box, you'd see them winning all over the competition field, and they don't.

[fedlaw]

Perhaps he simply added an extra apostrophe to the group size or an extra zero to the distance? Maybe both?

[Skpotamus]

Glocks seem to be winning a good number of the competitions in my neck of the woods. Especially in the stock divisions.

Comparing a $500 stock gun to a $2000 customized 1911 isn't really fair though.

I remember Chuck Taylor throwing his Gen 1 glock 17 into a ransom rest and producing a sub 1" group at 25 yards with Hydrashocks. Most groups were over one inch though. The gun/ammo combo could very well be capable of producing that group size, but the shooter would have to be a LOT better than anyone I've ever seen shoot.

I seem to remember an interview with Rob Leatham saying that doens't break under a 2" group at 25 yards very often. I could be wrong though.

[M2 Carbine]

I've heard a number of far out claims over the years, from people like the subject LEO, but I don't recall ANYONE ever backing them up.

[bluto]

Great article on Glock accuracy with lots of pics @ 25 yards from a ransom rest using stock vs match vs customized barrels. Nothing like sub 1" groups with any barrel but lots of good test data on probable ACTUAL CONSISTANT accuracy capability from both stock and modded Glocks.

http://www.montac.com/glock/bullet%20jump/bulletjump_1.htm

It gives more of a real world baseline for Glock capability and makes the consistant claim of 4" @100 yards offhand just so much hogwash.

[jeff-10]

With Glock sights 4 inches at 100 yards would be sheer luck.

[Bazooka Joe71]

Perhaps he simply added an extra apostrophe to the group size or an extra zero to the distance? Maybe both?

Genius!!!

We finally figured out the problem, the LEO wasn't BS'ing, he just had his figures wrong!:D

[ChuckB]

Yeah, ol' fedlaw seems to get to the nub of an issue!

Chuck, who would pick fedlaw to back him up when the SHTF.