Full-Auto Home Defense


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Geronimo45
October 9, 2006, 11:15 PM
We'll pose the idea that the 86 MG ban and '34 NFA are revoked... full autos are the same price for you as for LEOs. We'll say that the courts allow them to be used in the last several cases.
What full-auto would you pick for home defense?

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SoCalShooter
October 9, 2006, 11:17 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAH omg you have to be kidding...I love this scenario thank you. I would probably pick up an m60 or a BAR possibly an mp5 with the navy trigger group.

Biker
October 9, 2006, 11:17 PM
A Thompson.

Biker

RNB65
October 9, 2006, 11:18 PM
MP5. Awesome gun.

Deer Hunter
October 9, 2006, 11:19 PM
MG42.

It was good enough for the Germans, right?

carterbeauford
October 9, 2006, 11:19 PM
A Browning M1919 firing through a slot in each of the four second floor corners of my house.

I can't think of any situation short of numerous invaders in which a full-auto weapon would be required, safe or practical.

ctdonath
October 9, 2006, 11:21 PM
We've had this argument on THR recently.
Summary:
Most think MGs for home defense are useless, if not detrimental.
Some of us, noting that select-fire guns actually cost the same as semi-only, want the option anyway.

My take:
I'd prefer an M4 with 11.5" barrel + suppressor. Compact, effective, tolerable noise level, make lots of holes fast if situation* warrants it.

(* = Just because you (the objector/cynic) can't think of a suitable reason doesn't mean there isn't one. Better to have the option and not use it, than not and need it.)

enkindler
October 9, 2006, 11:24 PM
Anything that shot well in semi mode, after shooting in competitive machine gun shoots I am of the opinion that full auto is only good for converting dollars into noise.

KUJO2388
October 9, 2006, 11:25 PM
Atchisson Assault Shotgun (USAS) with a 20 round drum Magazine. Either OO or slugs. It would kick really hard. But it is just a fantasy. Not the best looking gun. Not even the best working. But it would be cool.

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh29-e.htm

rustymaggot
October 9, 2006, 11:25 PM
somthing small and controlable. enforcer version m2 carbine. add a light to it and your set. i like the cartrige, its like a rimless .357 magnum. softpoints or hollow points of course.

maybe a full auto shotgun would be cool but id assume hard to manage.

Geronimo45
October 9, 2006, 11:25 PM
Riot situation, home invasion, zombies. The list goes on. Besides, a shotgun is, in a way, close to a machine gun - it's spitting out a lot of lead with one pull of the trigger.

Not limited to one FA item - you can have one for each member of the family. Give the kids American 180s, the littler ones the Vz 61 Skorpion in .32, etc.

MarshallDodge
October 9, 2006, 11:26 PM
I'd prefer an M4 with 11.5" barrel + suppressor. Compact, effective, tolerable noise level, make lots of holes fast if situation* warrants it.
Good choice. If I were to go with a rifle caliber then the bullets would be soft point or similar.
MP5 in .40 and Thomson are good choices as well.

Wes Janson
October 9, 2006, 11:32 PM
I'm with ctdonath. Give me a suppressed M4 with a burst setting. Can't think of much better than that, especially for preserving one's hearing while shooting machineguns indoors.

carpediem
October 9, 2006, 11:37 PM
AA-12

Supressed rifle-caliber longarm

Glock 18

ARperson
October 9, 2006, 11:41 PM
I'm with Biker on the Thompson for home defense.

Just for fun, would probably be a BAR or a BREN.

gezzer
October 10, 2006, 12:09 AM
I own 4 subguns and I will pick a shotgun.

Evil Monkey
October 10, 2006, 12:12 AM
The greatest home defense auto weapons ever...

Behold...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xaLLj-XbQRY

mp510
October 10, 2006, 12:15 AM
I wouldn't pick a full auto for home defense, regardless of the price of the weapon. There is to much likliehood to overexpend ammunition (fire more rounds than is necesary), and expose oneself to increased civil liability- I bet a lawyer would have a field day even if the shoot was justified, especially with a sheeple jury that he only needs to convince a majority of.

panzermk2
October 10, 2006, 12:16 AM
This choice of mine will surprise no one



http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/panzermk2/fn_tw_p90_r.jpg

Evil Monkey
October 10, 2006, 12:26 AM
Hahahaha!:D This thread reminds me of funny things.

How about shooting full auto all around your house screaming "Ju think you can take me! Ju nee' a whole army to take me! I burry you cock roaches!"

Good times.:)

Prince Yamato
October 10, 2006, 01:30 AM
same gun I have in semi-auto... an AK-47 :neener:

Hanzo581
October 10, 2006, 01:34 AM
G35C

Eightball
October 10, 2006, 02:00 AM
A Thompson.Yep.

Either a Thompson (with a light, somehow....that would be odd. Not for "tacticool"--I have a dark house at night), the P90, or the M2. Easy enough to use, "weak" enough rounds (not rifle calibre).

Or maybe a FA 10/22 or something. Silenced.

Actually, silence all of the above---I like my hearing.

DRMMR02
October 10, 2006, 02:01 AM
Another vote for the MP5

CK
October 10, 2006, 03:10 AM
M3 Grease Gun.

FN Fal

Automatic Shotgun

Scorpion

Uzi

Silenced 9mm MP5

Zen21Tao
October 10, 2006, 03:37 AM
Primary:
http://www.epicycle.org.uk/images/minigun2.jpg

Backup:
http://www.229thavbn.com/1stcav/M60-in-action.jpg

LAK
October 10, 2006, 07:42 AM
What full-auto would you pick for home defense?
I wouldn't.

Automatic fire is almost exclusively only effective when incorporated within choreographed tactical movements by military units and fire teams - and even then mainly as suppressive fire. About the only time it is effective for an individual is in sudden very close encounters with one or more badguys with absolutely no regard for stray bullets.

In general then, single well aimed shots with a rifle or shotgun are more effective for individual defense - anywhere.

---------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

Rem700SD
October 10, 2006, 07:44 AM
MP5SD 10mm version
good in tight quarters, controlled bursts, good trigger, not too loud

iamkris
October 10, 2006, 07:48 AM
I own 4 subguns and I will pick a shotgun.

I think that is the most telling comment here...

TexasRifleman
October 10, 2006, 07:52 AM
Well, if the ban is lifted, you don't really need full auto when you can do it with one round of 20mm

http://www.obscure-reference.com/guns/berloque/berloque_lahti_2_thumb.jpg

hso
October 10, 2006, 08:10 AM
http://www.internationalpolicesupply.net/Trinity-Talon.jpg

.45 integrally suppressed M4

Joe Demko
October 10, 2006, 08:45 AM
Skorpion .32acp with suppressor.

Medusa
October 10, 2006, 09:32 AM
Either P90 or G36C, suppressed, as I value my hearing and my family's. But as noted, FA fire isn't the best typical response to intruders.

Keith Wheeler
October 10, 2006, 09:43 AM
I wouldn't use a full-auto for "home" defense, meaning the "bad guy is breaking in to my house".

However, I'd use one for property/farm defense. A good subgun would fit the bill. Someone said Skorpion....huh? neat little gizmo, I've got a semi, full of nifty little bits of engineering, but not exactly something I'd use for much of anything other than plinking. In the "real world" the Vz61 was little more than an assassination piece. Funky to use, what with the risk of getting your hand smacked by the "cocking handles on both sides" and that crazy upwards ejection. The butt-stock is flimsy, it's just not a great platform.

Good subguns for property defense: Thompson, full size Uzi (the Minis are a little too fast), MP5 (not my favorite -- over priced things), Sterling. All high quality, controllable, easy to operate for the entire family. Walther MPK/MPL or Beretta M12S if they weren't so rare. I would personally pick an Uzi or a Sterling, but then I have semis of both, so I'm already partial to them and have some experience/skill with them. I really love Thompsons, but I don't need to add yet another caliber to my logistics issues.

I can't agree with the academic comment "Automatic fire is almost exclusively only effective when incorporated within choreographed tactical movements by military units and fire teams - and even then mainly as suppressive fire." Subguns are great for these sorts of things -- easy to operate, fairly accurate for the ranges involved, and to the typical bad guy a burst from a rattle-gun is very intimidating. In the time that you're still thinking about sliding that shotgun pump I will have already dumped 3 to 5 rounds into a main sized target at 100 yards with a SMG. I'm not saying the burp-gun beats a scatter-gun, just pointing out that yes indeed a single person with a subgun can be a powerful force against robbers and other crooks.

Accuracy? I love to laugh at the bozos that claim a subgun can't be accurate. Imagine a 9mm pistol with a 8" or 10" barrel AND a butt-stock. Trivial to make them count, even at ranges where a pistol is worthless. Shoot a Sterling L2A3 and you'll understand. Fantastic piece.

Subguns are anachronistic in today's military....but are still favorites of police all over the world. I wonder why?

Of course this is all theoretical. In today's climate, do NOT use a FA for self defense, even those who have "won" the legal battle lost a bunch of buckage in the process.

Edited to correct my British spelling of "defence". I think having too many Land Rovers is starting to effect my mind...

armoredman
October 10, 2006, 09:56 AM
I will never be able to afford FA, so, academically speaking, if i were to choose a FA firearms for home use, the CZ75 FA with forward grip would be one, the HK VP70M would be another, and the Skorpion 9mm would be a third.

cslinger
October 10, 2006, 10:07 AM
Whatever it was it would be supressed and set to semi auto. :D

Kevlarman
October 10, 2006, 10:29 AM
A Tec-9.
:neener:

Exposure
October 10, 2006, 10:32 AM
Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.

armoredman
October 10, 2006, 10:39 AM
I thought that was 40 MEGAwatt...you're shooting a flashlight.:neener:

tellner
October 10, 2006, 10:44 AM
A 36-pounder loaded with grape or canister.

Those are already legal? Kewl...

Josh Aston
October 10, 2006, 10:44 AM
If the MG ban and NFA weren't around I do believe we would be living in a society that wouldn't fry you in civil court for using a MG for home defense. That said I'd take a P90.

GEM
October 10, 2006, 10:51 AM
I want that legal 22 LR Brass Gatling gun I saw at the gun show. I'd mount it on little wheels and buy a minature horse to tow it around the house as I face the bad guys! Yee Hah!

Keith Wheeler
October 10, 2006, 11:01 AM
And this is why the NFA will never be repealed. Because most gun owners treat full-auto as a joke.

Zach S
October 10, 2006, 11:05 AM
hso, the problem with your internally supressed .45 M4 is that its chambered for 9mm...

While I love my thompsons, for an SMG I'd more likely go with an HK UMP (in .45, of course), or an 11.5" M16 with a decent can.

Its pretty much up to the lady. If I own it, I can shoot it proficiently, but that's not the case with her, so we have to agree on what gets left out at night. Since we're using a 9mm AR15 at the moment, the 11.5" M16 would be the most probable.

Joe Demko
October 10, 2006, 11:15 AM
Someone said Skorpion....huh? neat little gizmo, I've got a semi, full of nifty little bits of engineering, but not exactly something I'd use for much of anything other than plinking. In the "real world" the Vz61 was little more than an assassination piece. Funky to use, what with the risk of getting your hand smacked by the "cocking handles on both sides" and that crazy upwards ejection. The butt-stock is flimsy, it's just not a great platform.

You choose what you want for idle-never-going-to-happen-fantasy threads and I'll choose what I want.

Deathrider1579
October 10, 2006, 12:10 PM
Either one of those nifty little M4s with the belt fed upper (I am officially in love btw)

A .45 sub gun of a classic vintage ... suppressed

or an UZI

Probably the Thompson or UZI though because in the city over penetration is an issue.

Those of you going "I don't want a SMG for home defense"... you know you don't have to post here move on to another thread and let us have our fun.

We all should want the NFA and 1934 bans lifted I don't care if you think its useful or not its a matter of freedom.

-DR

American By Blood
October 10, 2006, 12:52 PM
I live in a row house.

12ga pump.

ndh87
October 10, 2006, 05:19 PM
Thompson

P90 (with suppressor, laser, and tac light)

with a mac 11 for back up

the 22 junkie
October 10, 2006, 05:26 PM
Of course, a Lakeside Arms mini 22LR 1919. No seriously, integrally supressed M4 in 40 S&W, like hso posted. :evil:

Mumbles_45
October 10, 2006, 05:27 PM
Lets see...

An M-240B to mount on my Jeep would be the first order of buisness. It's the only FA I truly want. Other than that, I'm satisfied with semi-only. If they were available in full auto for little or no extra money or hassle, I'd get the same guns I have in semi-only form now, but with the go fast switch.

What would be the most exciting to me about the end of the NFA and all that other tripe would be the silencers and SBR/SBSs. I'd want a 12 ga., probably a Mossberg 500 with a 12-14" bbl, an AR with a 14.5" bbl, a krink-style AK, Something MP-5ish without the anteater look, and suppressors for just about everything I own/would own.

As things are currently, the suppressors are the only thing I ever see myself trying to get.

Keith Wheeler
October 10, 2006, 05:27 PM
My turn to not be serious...

Of course, a Lakeside Arms mini 22LR 1919.

My wife says those are "cute".

Zen21Tao
October 10, 2006, 05:42 PM
Of course, a Lakeside Arms mini 22LR 1919.

I suppose you want it suppressed with subsonic ammo and mounted to a tactical wheel barrow too, right. :D

bigj8550
October 10, 2006, 05:53 PM
Chaulk up another mark for a suppresed MP5 9mm.:)

plexreticle
October 10, 2006, 06:28 PM
Out of all the full autos I've used (BAR, M2 Carbine, M16, CAR/9mm, mac-10, thompson 1928, mp5) I would pick an MP5 no question about it.

CleverNickname
October 10, 2006, 06:33 PM
M134. :rolleyes:

plexreticle
October 10, 2006, 06:38 PM
Yes I change my answer to m134 also :)

TexasRifleman
October 10, 2006, 06:42 PM
And this is why the NFA will never be repealed. Because most gun owners treat full-auto as a joke.

No, we treat NFA itself as a joke, and we are backed up by the statistics of when and how often NFA weapons are used in crimes.

NFA weapons are statistically the safest weapons on the planet.

entropy
October 10, 2006, 06:52 PM
It still wouldn't be my first choice for HD, but yet another vote for the supressed MP5, specifically MP5SDA3. I know what I can do with it. :evil:

cbsbyte
October 10, 2006, 06:55 PM
Personally, I would not use a machine gun for home defense. Full auto is pure Hollywood, and not for real life home defense. SMG are not very accurate when in auto mode, which makes them dangerous since a stray bullet can travel through a wall and hit a family member. A Machine gun is basically useless inside a home unless you are planning on having a shoot out with heavily armed criminals in your living room. A SMG against one intruder is complete overkill. I would still choose a 12GA pump with 00 buck over any SMG given the choice. It is a much better home defense weapon.

For fun I would buy a MG probably a HK UMP in .45 ACP, Thompson and/or a FN SCAR.

DoubleTapDrew
October 10, 2006, 07:54 PM
If strays weren't an issue...Thompson, AA-12, Full auto Tromix/Saiga 12, or a 11.5" M4 with a can (and a beta mag for giggles).
This thread reminds me of the video for Totally Awesome Guns (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1094232574024579484&q=Totally+Awesome+Guns) I think they are out of business now though.

entropy
October 10, 2006, 07:58 PM
MP5's are very accurate, even in full auto, assuming one uses fire discipline, or has 3 rd. burst.


A SMG against one intruder is complete overkill.:confused:

As opposed to underkill?

BTW, it would be 'An SMG...' ;)

DontBurnMyFlag
October 10, 2006, 08:01 PM
that full auto revolver Ive heard so much about

tenbase
October 10, 2006, 08:02 PM
metal storm

TexasRifleman
October 10, 2006, 08:13 PM
that full auto revolver Ive heard so much about

Those are only issued to Democrats in the Super Secret Society, so you'll have to go on without that one......

silverlance
October 10, 2006, 08:17 PM
I don't want FA. If im going to have to lug a lot of ammo id ont' want it all gone all at once.

however....

silencers, that's neat

i want a silenced saiga-12.

lwrnc1963
October 10, 2006, 10:11 PM
For me it'd either be a M-3 grease gun or a M2 carbine with hollowpoints.

bg
October 10, 2006, 10:35 PM
Mac 10. Simple & cheap, just like me..:D

Spreadfire Arms
October 10, 2006, 10:43 PM
full autos are the same price for you as for LEOs.

actually for clarification individual LEO's cannot buy post-86 machine guns, only the government agency can.

but i happen to think my MP5 (either A2, A3, or SD, i got all 3) or my UMP 45 would do nicely. i think my M4 would overpenetrate, and especially my G3. :)

ctdonath
October 10, 2006, 11:03 PM
Random thoughts:

Real-world use is showing that .223 "overpenetrates" less than 9mm on average.

Without 922(o) and NFA, semi-auto and select-fire versions of the same gun cost practically the same, a few dollars difference. In that case, there's no reason to not have the option.

Full-auto detractors: you don't want the "happy switch" option? fine. Don't.
I do. Others here do. If I'm opening up on a lethal intruder at oh-dark-thirty at home, "overkill" is not in my vocabulary - he's threatening to kill me and mine, so I want any option that will facilitate saving me and mine as fast as possible. And yes, I can be accurate and controlled on full-auto. The happy switch will most likely be on "semi", but if situation warrants it (and you can't guarantee it won't) I want that "full" setting just a thumbstroke away. And remember: a shotgun stuffed with OO buck is launching nine 9mm balls across a spreading area per shell - I'm not likely to fire that many on one trigger pull on full-auto.

And in recalling that some of our Founding Fathers had cannons decorating their home entryways, I'd like a couple o' Ma Deuce similarly situated. And equally functional.

iamkris
October 10, 2006, 11:15 PM
You guys think too small when it comes to full auto

http://i10.tinypic.com/403g010.jpg

Geronimo45
October 10, 2006, 11:19 PM
"And remember: a shotgun stuffed with OO buck is launching nine 9mm balls across a spreading area per shell - I'm not likely to fire that many on one trigger pull on full-auto."
Interesting - a shotgun is rougly equivalent to a selective-fire weapon in burst mode. Switch to slugs for 'semi-auto only' fire.

Spreadfire: I was referring to 'LEO prices' in places like GunsAmerica - where, if I remember right, a full-auto FAL was cheaper than a semi-auto version.

bigun15
October 10, 2006, 11:24 PM
MP5 or Thompson. Unless you live in a mansion, in which case it would be more like a G36.

MSGT9410
October 10, 2006, 11:27 PM
Mk-19

panzermk2
October 11, 2006, 12:07 AM
iamkris NICE

OK ALREADY YOU WANT SILENCER AND OTHER GOODIES

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/panzermk2/Background.jpg

Biker
October 11, 2006, 12:12 AM
Oh, I like that. I'll take two of each, heh heh...

Biker:cool:

Prince Yamato
October 11, 2006, 12:14 AM
You know, just because you have a full-auto for home defense doesn't mean you have to shoot it in full-auto mode or even have to fire a shot. I'm pretty sure if you pointed a Thompson at a criminal they would stop in their tracks. In most home invasions, you're usually talking less than 15ft between you and said attacker. Say you hit them with a blast from an Uzi loaded with hollow points. You're talking 10 rounds into them. Actually, to the people who feel that machineguns are impractical for home use: you're using a Hollywood home perception (HUGE living room, places to duck and cover, etc.) most people, would be in close proximity to the invader and repeated hits would be almost assured. I think spray and pray isn't what we're talking about, but short, close, burst fire.

ctdonath
October 11, 2006, 08:58 AM
:) I've met that nice lady.
She owns AAC, which made the silencer.

Heavy Barrel
October 11, 2006, 09:19 AM
My M11 380 will dump a 32 round clip fast enough for me!:eek:

Keith Wheeler
October 11, 2006, 09:43 AM
I would still choose a 12GA pump with 00 buck over any SMG given the choice. It is a much better home defense weapon.

My 5' tall wife can go to the range and shoot Uzis all day long. She's not so found of shotguns. A subgun is easily manueverable in an interior setting, and no matter what movies you watch, a properly handled subgun firing 3 to 5 round bursts will be insanely accurate at self defense ranges.

Again, I'm approaching this from the "what if it were legal and acceptable to use full-auto for home defense" scenario. Against one intruder? How do you know it's just one?

Ever notice that in America, where it's only socially acceptable for SWAT to have full-auto, the cops carry shotguns. Every place else it's subguns.

I think one of the absolute worst reprecussions of the NFA is that it has prevented way too many pro-gun types from handling a wider variety of firearms.

CornCod
October 11, 2006, 09:45 AM
German MP-40 or Swedish Carl Gustav 9mm sub-machine gun.

Rat-a-tat-tat!

Deathrider1579
October 11, 2006, 10:56 AM
I think one of the absolute worst reprecussions of the NFA is that it has prevented way too many pro-gun types from handling a wider variety of firearms.

That is an interesting insight!

-DR

M2 Carbine
October 11, 2006, 11:23 AM
rustymaggot
somthing small and controlable. enforcer version m2 carbine. add a light to it and your set. i like the cartrige, its like a rimless .357 magnum. softpoints or hollow points of course.

I had one. Cool, but highly unreliable in full auto. The Carbine gas operating system doesn't take kindly to much change.

For in house FA I'd use a MP5, UZI or MAC 10. The MP40 is fine but a little too long.

I don't even consider my M2 Carbine. Maybe I should.:)

Zach S
October 11, 2006, 11:27 AM
BTW, it would be 'An SMG...' Not to nitpick, but its internet shorthand, just like "SHTF," "BOB," "LOL," "IANAL," "TEOTWAWKI," "FTF," etc, which are in common use, but are never actually said. Not that I've heard anyway.

So from my point of veiw, it would in fact be "a SMG," even though it "says" SMG, i'm "reading" submachinegun.

Sorry, I ramble a lot when I'm tired... I think I need some sleep....

BobTheTomato
October 11, 2006, 11:56 AM
I think I will keep a shotgun and the wife would get a supressed Uzi to stay in the room with to protect the kids.

Medusa
October 11, 2006, 12:17 PM
Thought it over, but indeed, bursts can be very beneficial in close ranges, peppering the BG(s).
This (with suppressor and laser)
http://www.hkpro.com/image/g36cangle.jpg
Since the 5.56 can be more effective (like penetrating bodyarmor), than 9x19 mm MP5SDx, I'd definitely go with G36C. Dropped the P90 since 5.7x28 mm ammo is hard to come by here. I have trouble to feed the FiveseveN, let alone the subgun..

Inline_6
October 11, 2006, 02:08 PM
For indoor use, the same one I use now only with the "high" setup for full power 10mm loads:
http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/293/327/101212.jpg

I could also get by with an H&K UMP45. :D

If I had a ranch, or other decently sized piece of property... I'd alternate btwn an M4 and a DSA OSW for outdoor work.

Of course... there is always a 12 gauge standing by. Less sexy, but the ultimate in reliability and effectiveness.

oh blanky
October 11, 2006, 02:16 PM
Suppressed fnc for me please.

crunker
October 11, 2006, 08:45 PM
In my current location? MPA MAC-11/9 Mini. A couple of little accessories for it.
In a more country setting, Thompson or maybe M-4.
In a country setting, FN FAL or AK-47.
In an urban setting USAS-12 or Protecta Bulldog.

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