On-duty Guardsman shoots someone in Nawlins


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carebear
October 10, 2006, 04:32 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,219097,00.html

All I know is what was in the story.

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Sindawe
October 10, 2006, 04:54 AM
Hmmm....OK. So New Orleans Police is not yet on duty in all parts of the city. A Guardsman acting in their stead to keep order felt he had to shoot one of the residents. What was the resident doing to justify (or not) this assessment by the Guardsman?

gunsmith
October 10, 2006, 05:07 AM
in the upper torso? with what?
Guardsmen need bigger guns!
If I shoot someone with a rifle I am pretty sure they will stay stopped forever.
did he shoot them in the arm or something?

SAG0282
October 10, 2006, 05:15 AM
Dangit, and that "victim" had probably JUST found God to turn his life around too! Aw shucks.

carebear
October 10, 2006, 05:39 AM
Sindawe,

That was more or less my question. Somebody on here will have the inside skinny sooner or later.

The uniqueness of the situation is what caught my eye. I don't think the Guard has shot anyone domestically, especially during law enforcement/disaster relief, for awhile if ever.

gunsmith
October 10, 2006, 06:20 AM
I don't think the Guard has shot anyone domestically,



http://speccoll.library.kent.edu/4may70/box109/109f14.jpg

gunsmith
October 10, 2006, 06:23 AM
I don't think the Guard has shot anyone domestically,
I guess 1970 counts as awhile, sure don't feel like it sometimes.


http://www.timesreporter.com/photos/May2005/0504ksu.jpg

plexreticle
October 10, 2006, 08:00 AM
The Guard returned fire plenty of times in NOLA last year.

Ray P
October 10, 2006, 08:10 AM
in the upper torso? with what?
Ohio Guardsmsen were using Garands IIRC?
Big difference between 5.56x45 (or 9x19) and 7.62x63 (30-06).

00-Guy
October 10, 2006, 09:57 AM
After Hurricane Frederick (Mobile AL 1979), a Alabama National Guardsman shot a young lady in the leg with his M-16. She had been stopped after curfew and was in his Jeep when shot. His defense in criminal court was an A/D. The state's charge was that she was shot after she refused the guardsman "advance". IIRC he was found not guilty of the shooting, but was convicted of another charge by the military.

Sindawe makes the best point. I did not know that parts of New Orleans is still patrolled by the Guard.

ilbob
October 10, 2006, 12:25 PM
Ohio Guardsmsen were using Garands IIRC?

I thought they were springfields.

CornCod
October 10, 2006, 12:37 PM
Although not unconstitutional, I think its a little scandalous that police have not entirely replaced National Guardsmen in New Orleans. Its important to our liberties that armed troops be used in a law enforcement role only in exceptional and BRIEF emergency situations. I look upon this as yet another unfiortunate blurring of the distinction between police and soldiers that has been taking place over the last twenty years.

Deathrider1579
October 10, 2006, 12:51 PM
Its too bad the guard didn't shoot hippies before that kent state thing (like when they put the flowers in the barrels at the pentagon... guard should have returned them with ... love :-) ) Would have ended that whole anti war thing sooner.

-DR

Spreadfire Arms
October 10, 2006, 01:11 PM
looks like this may be a bad shoot. shooting someone for having a cellular phone, that the guardsmen thought was a weapon, while they were approaching you, doesn't look justifiable, especially when they could have resorted to other options, like pepper spray, baton, etc.

im not sure if they are operating under UCMJ or the Louisiana Penal Code. my guess is that since they are patrolling the civilian populous, they'd be operating under civilian authority.

lucky_fool
October 10, 2006, 01:26 PM
as he approached the soldiers.

The man was wounded in the upper torso near his back

How exactly would one get wounded "near his back" as he approached the guardsman? :confused:

Aggie's Revenge
October 10, 2006, 01:31 PM
Corncob,

recalling how bad the NOPD was, I am willing to allow them time to build a better police force to take over. After all they were really good at violating civil rights in the late 90's and early 2000.

carebear
October 10, 2006, 02:04 PM
lucky,

Happens all the time in real world shootings. You see the gun come up and instinctively start to twist away. Everything is happening simultaneously and in split seconds and the round, originally intended for the chest, goes exactly where originally aimed but the target has moved in front of it.

I was deliberately avoiding Kent State as it was riot control and not a natural disaster response.

dasmi
October 10, 2006, 02:07 PM
Its too bad the guard didn't shoot hippies before that kent state thing (like when they put the flowers in the barrels at the pentagon... guard should have returned them with ... love :-) ) Would have ended that whole anti war thing sooner.
Yeah, that's rational. Let's just shoot anyone who disagrees with the government.

IfYouOnlyKnew
October 10, 2006, 02:10 PM
The Guard has been patrolling areas of the city still mostly uninhabited and were recently extended until December, I think. This was in response to ongoing looting in deserted areas and a surge in murders which supposedly allowed NOPD which has ongoing manpower shortages to focus on 'hot spots.' I believe extra state police troopers have also been assigned to the city. If I am not mistaken, I think Pres Johnson sent elements of the regular Airborne to the city after Hurricane Betsy in 1965. I am not sure what their role was then. Check NOLA.com for more background on the current story. If two soldiers were pointing rifles at me I'd do whatever they wanted. Conventions are taking place again and the bad publicity about the post Katrina drug based murders called for something to be done. I think the Guard is needed here more than in another rotation in the WOT or patrolling the Rio Grande. In fact, today's cover story of NOLA.com is about three people including a bystander being wounded in a shooting just outside of the French Quarter. Welcome to the Big Easy.

lucky_fool
October 10, 2006, 02:20 PM
Carebear, I jumped the gun on this one. I didn't notice that the article continued below the ads (who decided that breaking up news stories with ads was a good idea?).

I pictured a guy approaching a guard station on foot, not a guy exiting a vehicle. I can easily see a shot directly to the back not just "near the back" if they have several guardsmen around stopped car.

That's not to say it's a good shoot, though. The article doesn't say whether or not it was daylight so it's hard to say how identifiable the object should have been. Plus it's short on any details about any threatening gestures, just that he refused to stop and "continued on". Based on the text of the article (and we all know about accepting the text of a news story) the guy could have gotten out of his car, refused to stop walking when ordered by the NG, and gotten shot for it.

I do know that I don't feel very good about the National Guard stopping people for diving erratically. Posse Comitatus, anyone?

Byron Quick
October 10, 2006, 02:34 PM
When you're telling me to do something and you're holding a gun...I'm going to follow commands...or fight.

I'll let the lawyers hash out the legalities of whomever's actions in court. My interest at the time will be to avoid giving nervous people any reason to become too nervous.

Sounds as if the man who was shot is sufferinng from the capital crime of terminal stupidity.

That doesn't necessarily clear the Guardsman but the guy who was shot is a Darwin award looking for a place to happen.

carebear
October 10, 2006, 02:34 PM
Carebear, I jumped the gun on this one. I didn't notice that the article continued below the ads (who decided that breaking up news stories with ads was a good idea?).

Well, they have to pay for it somehow, and if they're off to the side we might miss them... :rolleyes: (not an ad fan myself)

I haven't checked any of the updated stories yet.

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