Anyone else do this?


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PlayboyPenguin
October 10, 2006, 02:32 PM
Whenever we go out (like last night for karaoke) I have noticed I always set a plan with my partner after checking out the layout of where we are that night. I plan things like what we would do if seperated and what I would want him to do in case of an armed assailant. I decide where I would like him to go and tell him to do so immedialtely if I tell him to make himself scarce,

I find that since I have started carrying I do this even more. I check for where I feel he would be safest if I engaged someone, where the fire exits are located, and where available cover would be for myself. I will never sit with my back to a door in a bar or restaraunt (that word again) which drives my business partner crazy.

When walking down city streets I make sure I am the one on the inside closer to alleys and doorways and I always tell my partner that if I say run, just run and go to get help. Do not look back and do not try to help me. The best thing he could do is get the authorities. I figure that I should be able to occupy even 3 or 4 guys for 30 seconds or so to allow him time to flee. If I can get to my gun or knife maybe even have a chance to end the situation (in close combat you would be suprised how fast a double edged switchblade can turn a 3 on 1 fight into an unfair fight for the 3).

Maybe this makes me a little paranoid but I like to call it prepared. I just never want to be in a position of having to say "if only I had done this or prepared for that maybe my loved one would still be here".

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exar
October 10, 2006, 02:48 PM
Whenever we go out (like last night for karaoke) I have noticed I always set a plan with my partner after checking out the layout of where we are that night. I plan things like what we would do if seperated and what I would want him to do in case of an armed assailant. I decide where I would like him to go and tell him to do so immedialtely if I tell him to make himself scarce,

Seems like alot of crap for an enjoyable night dancing and drinking. Relax a little. If you have to create a tactical plan with your buddy everytime you enter a room in public, you need to move to a different town.

Black Majik
October 10, 2006, 03:41 PM
Nope, I'm in condition yellow when I go out. But I don't need to devise a plan for every place I go to. Sorta takes the fun out of life to constantly plan and be worried of the "what if."

I do sit facing the door, or sit where the right side (strongside) faces a wall. But I don't stress over tactically planning out every exit, every cover or whatnot to every place I go. There's no need to.

Just my $0.02 :)

Phenom
October 10, 2006, 04:06 PM
I'm plan is simple, Survival:) Anyone looking to make me a victim will Rest In Peace:D

SoCalShooter
October 10, 2006, 04:13 PM
I usually make sure I know where the exits are and such but I do not plan that much, but I do concern myself with zombie attacks.

PlayboyPenguin
October 10, 2006, 04:18 PM
but I do concern myself with zombie attacks
The bad thing is you never know if you are going to get the nice old fashioned slow moving zombies or those creepy fast moving ones. You need a different plan for each. :)

SoCalShooter
October 10, 2006, 04:22 PM
PlayboyPenguin : I agree this is why I keep a thermonuclear weapon ready at all times and a tomahawk....always keep both in the car...keep a skateboard in there too and a baseball bat, not to mention a backpack full of survival supplies. Maybe I am a little paranoid or prepared.:cool:

PlayboyPenguin
October 10, 2006, 04:32 PM
and a tomahawk
Do you mean the missle type or the scalping type? if the prior you must have a big trunk. :)

Seriosly though. All this takes about 5 seconds to do. All it takes is a quick survey of your surrounding then you are set for the night. I had so many trainers in the military (MI division) tell us so many times to never be anywhere that you did not know the best way out of if things went bad.

wolf_from_wv
October 10, 2006, 04:38 PM
As long as you don't stick a 1911 behind some crates by the back door, it's ok...


"I never walk into a place I don't know how to walk out of."

SoCalShooter
October 10, 2006, 04:39 PM
PlayboyPenguin: Yes it is the throwing type..I wish I had the missle type. But I do always survey the surroundings and exits and then survey the company and patrons.

shield20
October 10, 2006, 04:40 PM
Since my "going out partners" are usualy my wife, kids, her sisters and their families, I do not think discussing evac plans or SD plans with them everywhere we go would go over well. I think even my B-I-L the lifetime cop would be a little weirded out. Usually I am the only one who KNOWS I am carrying.

I do insist on sitting back to the wall though, and usually remain aware of the surroundings. Past that, I just enjoy myself.

hso
October 10, 2006, 04:48 PM
I even ask my 8 year old daughter to identify the ways out she would use if there's trouble.

BullfrogKen
October 10, 2006, 04:57 PM
PlayboyPenguin said: (in close combat you would be suprised how fast a double edged switchblade can turn a 3 on 1 fight into an unfair fight for the 3)

Do you mean to say you carry a double edged switchblade?

shield20 said: I do insist on sitting back to the wall though

This practice has been debated amongst our trainers and study group. We've found sitting up against a wall tends to be the equivalent of backing oneself into a corner, and rarely works out well in sims. Sitting in a location that allows one more movement choices seems to work out better.


Anyone else do this?
So no, I do not do this. I tend to hold that I'll deal with whatever happens as I need to.

qlajlu
October 10, 2006, 05:09 PM
There is a very thin line between being prepared and paranoia and I think, in this thread at least, paranoia has the upper hand. Being prepared to exit every building to the point of giving instructions (orders, if you will) to your partner is waaaaay beyond being able to enjoy life. Sure there are those who would make your life miserable if given the opportunity, but to be walking the razor's edge every minute of every day is stupid! If it is going to happen, it is going to happen. Chill and enjoy life a little.

MachIVshooter
October 10, 2006, 05:13 PM
I don't go as far as planning a "tactical retreat", etc.

I do make every effort to sit where I can see points of entry and keep my strong side facing a wall or the inside of a booth, etc.

In short, I try to be alert without being paranoid.

PlayboyPenguin
October 10, 2006, 05:13 PM
Do you mean to say you carry a double edged switchblade?
I carry a pro-tech Godfather every day. Completely legal here in Oregon but now I guess you are going to tell me how I and every knife dealer in Oregon are wrong about that.

This practice has been debated amongst our trainers and study group. We've found sitting up against a wall tends to be the equivalent of backing oneself into a corner, and rarely works out well in sims.
I agree with this. That is why I said "do not sit with yourback to the door" and not "with your back to a wall".

Jim PHL
October 10, 2006, 05:30 PM
I don't make up any tactical plans for being attacked, etc. but ever since that nightclub fire (in MASS. or Rhode Island?) a few years ago, I do tend to make note of where the exits are and make sure my wife does, too.

tenbase
October 10, 2006, 05:50 PM
Yes, if I were in a karaoke bar, I would be looking for all possible exits as well.




:)

shield20
October 10, 2006, 05:52 PM
HA HA HA! LOL!!

:D

phoglund
October 10, 2006, 05:54 PM
I don't think this is as unusual as it would first seem. As PlayboyP says it only takes a few seconds. Like most habits the procedure becomes quicker with practice. Having "what to do" understood ahead of time can prevent a lot of confusion in a stressful situation. I'm not always as vigilant as PlayboyP but that's due to my being lazy not because I don't think it's a good idea. It also doesn't have to ruin the fun of the occasion as I think many of the members here probably enjoy thinking "tactically". Whenever I've spoken to my partner (wife) about safety and security from crime etc. she lets me know in no uncertain terms that she expects me to make sure I have whatever tools an tactics are necessary to deal with any likely situation. (Which is nice as I've used it as an excuse to purchase a number of useful toys. :D )

Just as important as maintaining situational awareness vis--vis exits and room geometry its a good idea to keep an eye on the people nearby to know from who the major threats may come.

BullfrogKen
October 10, 2006, 06:02 PM
PlayboyPenguin said: I carry a pro-tech Godfather every day. Completely legal here in Oregon but now I guess you are going to tell me how I and every knife dealer in Oregon are wrong about that.

I thought that was a picture of a switchblade you posted a few days ago. I just didn't say anything then.

It wouldn't be the first time a knife or gun dealer make an incorrect assertion. But, since its just you and I here, I'll ask you how you square that with your state's law:

166.240 Carrying of concealed weapons. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, any person who carries concealed upon the person any knife having a blade that projects or swings into position by force of a spring or by centrifugal force, any dirk, dagger, ice pick, slungshot, metal knuckles, or any similar instrument by the use of which injury could be inflicted upon the person or property of any other person, commits a Class B misdemeanor.

(2) Nothing in subsection (1) of this section applies to any peace officer as defined in ORS 133.005, whose duty it is to serve process or make arrests. Justice courts have concurrent jurisdiction to try any person charged with violating any of the provisions of subsection (1) of this section. [Amended by 1977 c.454 1; 1985 c.543 2; 1989 c.839 21; 1999 c.1040 15]

A few states' permits cover concealed weapons, to include knives. Oregon is not one of them. Additionally, it, as well as other states, has passed statutory laws specifically identifying certain classes of weapons as prohibited from carry. Noticeably, OR is silent on "bowie knives" and blade length. Many states define and prohibit those from carry.

PlayboyPenguin
October 10, 2006, 06:15 PM
Once again bullfrog, you are completely wrong. Oregon is one of the few states that allow fully automatic knives. The only requirement is that it be visible at all times. That is why it wear it clipped on my pocket so the top is visible.

This is simply a distortion of facts and misinformation, the statute you are quoting involves "concealed carry" only... not open carry of a pocket knife. In fact I just called my local sheriff's office and they stated the same thing I just told you. I am sure you just didn't take this into account when you read this.

They said as long as it is visible it is legal. If I carry it inside my pocket it is considered "concealed" and then it is a violation. Even then it is only a class b misdemeanor.

I also cannot carry it ino any public building.

here is a good reference for you regarding knives.
http://www.amatecon.com/switchblade.html

Mad Chemist
October 10, 2006, 06:40 PM
Armchair lawyers disparaging good knives again?

I like my Gerber auto, the thumb stud can be snagged on the pants which allows a simultaneous draw/opening. Haven't had any trouble with the police yet, I've even shown it to a couple of 'em.

Back to the original question, yeah, I always scan a room on entering. I don't necessarily devise an elaborate plan of attack/escape since plans have a way of falling apart under pressure anyway. However, I ALWAYS scan the room for obstacles, exits, and improvised weapons. More importantly, I always scan the room for people who's body language and mannerisms indicate trouble. Other people's experiences may vary, but when in public places I'm usually able to ID troublesome folks before trouble begins. Anyone who's worked as a bouncer or security guard should understand this concept well.

So sure, maybe you are a little paranoid. So what, better to be paranoid than unprepared. The hard part is finding a balance between being well prepared and still being able to relax and enjoy yourself. Your own thresholds are likely to be different than mine.

sw9f
October 10, 2006, 07:24 PM
The problem with carrying a knife in the pocket is that if you wear a jacket that covers the top of the knife or your shirt becomes untucked and covers the knife, it's now considered concealed.
Usually all I do is to make sure to know where the exits are.

Eyesac
October 10, 2006, 07:47 PM
"Yes, if I were in a karaoke bar, I would be looking for all possible exits as well."

Too funny dude.

TexasRifleman
October 10, 2006, 07:50 PM
The bad thing is you never know if you are going to get the nice old fashioned slow moving zombies or those creepy fast moving ones. You need a different plan for each.

And it's probably not a bad idea at all, but if either of you touch any alcohol the whole plan will likely be forgotten/screwed up anyway.

In general having a plan if things go south is never a bad thing, just realize that most of the time what "goes south" will be drastically different than what you planned for so be prepared and willing to be flexible.

And besides, if you'll subject yourself to the torture of Karaoke, then you don't have much regard for you or your partners safety anyway huh? :evil:

Erebus
October 10, 2006, 07:51 PM
but ever since that nightclub fire (in MASS. or Rhode Island?)

The Station in West Warwick RI. That was a horrible event. I wasn't there but a couple friends just made it out in time.

People I can't stress it enough, KNOW THE EMERGENCY EXITS!!! And get there as fast as you can at the first sign of danger. People died in that fire by burning from the feet forward as they were stacked in the doorways like cordwood. My friends said they were trying to pull poeple out by the arms but they were packed so tightly in the doorways that they couldn't pull them out. People behind the people in the doorways tried to climb over the pile and ended up part of it.

The fire at the Cocoanut Grove in Boston in 1942 killed 492 people.

You are much more likely to need to escape a fire than an attacker.

Brother in Arms
October 10, 2006, 07:53 PM
penguin
you dont scalp with a tomahawk you scalp with a scalping knife.

Brother in Arms

PlayboyPenguin
October 10, 2006, 08:06 PM
delete

PlayboyPenguin
October 10, 2006, 08:06 PM
And it's probably not a bad idea at all, but if either of you touch any alcohol the whole plan will likely be forgotten/screwed up anyway.
One of the many reasons I never drink alcohol. That and it doesn't mix well with my heroin. :D

TexasRifleman
October 10, 2006, 09:15 PM
That and it doesn't mix well with my heroin.

Well, duh.... Why didn't you say that in the first place, sheesh :D

BullfrogKen
October 11, 2006, 12:13 AM
PlayboyPenguin said: Once again bullfrog, you are completely wrong.

What is it I am wrong about? The statute?

If you contend seeing an inch of your knife poking out the top of your pocket makes it visible unconcealed, that's an opinion you are entitled to have. Stick someone with it, and you may be able to convince others of it, too. It seems you're arguing about the definition of concealed. Personally, I'd look to case law to see how its been defined rather than rely on the opinion of the Sheriff's Office.

PlayboyPenguin
October 11, 2006, 12:17 AM
If you contend seeing an inch of your knife poking out the top of your pocket makes it visible unconcealed, that's an opinion you are entitled to have
Bullfrog, bullfrog, bullfrog...once again you are wrong. The law here specifically requires one inch to be visible. It is very clear in that wording. You are even given a copy of the legal requirement by the knife shop when you buy one.

What is this need you have to think that you know more about every situation than even the people that are actually involved in that said situation? It is not very becoming.

rmmoore
October 11, 2006, 12:29 AM
Ahhh, some good humor is good for the soul. It's not as unusual as some might think. Someone mentioned the fine line between paranoia and preparedness. Hmmmm, I'm only paranoid if they're out to get me :D. Seriously though, it really does only take a moment to scan a room for potentially dangerous seating arangements/situations. It used to drive my wife nuts when I'd insist on a table that wasn't facing a window or the main entrance. I have a scar in my head from a shotgun pellet courtesy of some unfriendly natives doing drive by's. NOW, she understands and is supportive as she packs too and has a different perspective than before she was enlightened on the dangers of the world. Speaking of which, there are evil people looking to do evil things in every town in America. Small to big, podunk to metro, bedroom community to the 'burbs. Sadly, that's the world in which we live. I'd rather take a few moments, perhaps be inconvenienced, and feel comfort in the knowledge that I've done what I could (should) to ensure the safety of not only myself, but also my family. Understanding and accepting of course, that there will always be a man named Murphy waiting to screw it up :evil:. Remain flexible, improvise, adapt, and overcome. Live in condition Yellow, and live. Live in condition white, and die. I'm not paranoid, they really ARE out to get me :neener: .

Slinger
October 11, 2006, 12:48 AM
too much to think about...think I'll stay home and throw a pizza in the oven,draw my shades,turn out my lights,load my shotgun,and sit silently in the dark waiting ...waiting...waiting...

FTF
October 11, 2006, 12:53 AM
Sounds like too much work to me.

Knowing the emergency exits is always a good plan, of course. Personally, I don't sweat stuff like that. Hell, you could worry about exit strategies and all that and miss the entire point of going out, which is to relax and have fun. Running wargames and living your life in code orange is too much for me. I'll pack my piece when I am legally allowed to, but I'll be damned if I do much else to make my life even more difficult than it already is.

That IS your perogative though.. I'm not saying it's wrong.

Kim
October 11, 2006, 02:02 AM
Yes. Just like when I stay in a hotel I count how many doors down the staircase is from my room. If there is a fire and it is dark I can crawl on the foor and feel my way to the stairwell. I learned that as a kid. JUst like drop and roll, dead mans float,how a pair of blue jeans makes a floating device. Alot of thing once you learn them are natural.

BullfrogKen
October 11, 2006, 04:09 AM
PlayboyPenguin said: Bullfrog, bullfrog, bullfrog...once again you are wrong.

It seems you feel I'm wrong often. Again I ask what have I stated that is wrong? I have challenged your position a few times, asked you for more than personal opinions and salesman's assertions, and looked at your statute and asked how you felt you complied with it.

I grant I assume when you discuss sticking it in your pocket, that you have concealed it. I guess I don't envision someone walking about with a switchblade on his belt in an urban area.

The law here specifically requires one inch to be visible. It is very clear in that wording. You are even given a copy of the legal requirement by the knife shop when you buy one.

It does? Well that's interesting. Which law would that be? It would certainly be interesting to see a state define concealment so precisely.

PlayboyPenguin
October 11, 2006, 04:37 AM
Bullfrog,

I even supplied you with links that gave you the information about how they are legal in Oregon and how they must be carried. I am afraid I can't be of any further help to someone who does not want to be helped.

BullfrogKen
October 11, 2006, 05:15 AM
You did? I saw a - meaning one - link to a site that didn't have much more than a checklist. I never challenged they were legal to possess. In fact, I saw the case that challenged OR's previous ban on ownership and struck it down, but you didn't provide it. I saw the case that stated they can be carried openly. I found it on my own as well.

I cannot find anything to support your contention that Oregon has defined concealment so precisely as to say "one inch visible" does not constitute concealment. If you have that information, you must have forgotten to include it.


It is uncommon to see a state define what constitutes concealment so precisely. If you have something to that effect, I'd like to see it. It would be educational.

PlayboyPenguin said: What is this need you have to think that you know more about every situation than even the people that are actually involved in that said situation?

That's an interesting comment. I haven't espressed anything in absolutes other than to comment on the reality that states, including yours, have passed laws specifically addressing such matters, then I asked you about it. You contend that you won't face any trouble with that switchblade if you use it. I wouldn't be so bold to couch anything in absolutes, but especially that.

I remain unpersuaded, not because I can't be, as you contend, but because you haven't presented the evidence you rely upon, and I can't find anything to support it. Not saying it doesn't exist, but if its so widely available, couldn't you, or I, find it more easily?

strambo
October 11, 2006, 05:18 AM
I'm from Oregon too. PlayboyPenguin, where (what ORS #) covers the definition of concealed for a knife being less than an inch showing? I ask, because I've never heard of that. Is that just a common LE interpretation?

I always carry a knife that does not violate that definition at all (no spring, dagger etc...) so, even if totally concealed, it does not meet the definition of a "weapon". You are legally safe when talking to the cop on the street corner. He'll see it clipped on, no problem. The problem comes when something goes wrong. There is some grey area in how "concealed" can be interpreted and furthermore, if you have to use it...how can you verify it was visible before you pulled it out? Just your say so probably. or any similar instrument by the use of which injury could be inflicted upon the person or property of any other person, commits a Class B misdemeanor.
This vague wording is how cops can add a concealed weapons charge onto anyone found with anything close to a weapon when caught for another crime. If you aren't doing anything wrong, it's hard to establish intent for your use of "any similar instrument" as a weapon. If you are caught mugging someone, with drugs, or an assault charge, they can try to establish that intent. This is why good citizens don't really have to worry so much, unless they get into an altercation that wasn't ruled as justifiable.

I'm not saying your wrong at all, I'm curious about the 1" clip reference just for my personal info. I err on the safe side, I don't think I'm any less lethal with an Emerson than with the double edge switchblade. The odds of an additional weapons charge with the Emerson are slim though according to the wording of the ORS. It is legal any way I choose to carry it. If charged with another crime, they could call it "any similar instrument" and try to tack on that charge too. The further away in look and design from a weapon, the better. My Emerson isn't the best in this regard, but better than a double edge switchblade or "Master of Defense" death-warrior design.;) It's called the "Mach 1" not "CQB", or "SpecWar" model. Maybe I'm overthinking "problem 2", but it is a sturdy, functional knife anyway.

Zen21Tao
October 11, 2006, 05:21 AM
Whenever I go out I make sure to have my supressed .22lr ARs and tactical wheelbarrow always at my side. :neener:

BullfrogKen
October 11, 2006, 05:36 AM
strambo said: Maybe I'm overthinking "problem 2"

strambo, Problem 2 is exactly what I'm addressing. We'd all like to avoid it, and minimize it when it can't be avoided. Using a switchblade on someone would instantly cause those evaluating our actions to ask how we carried it in a state that prohibits it from concealed carry. We might not have to ever answer that question. But if the circumstances are such that anything more than a cursory investigation is necessary, that question will be asked. And I contend that the likelihood of that going in front of a jury in anything less than a cut and dry case is very high.

I'd imagine that after the prosecutor got through walking around parading that in front of a jury, flicking it open scores of times for dramatic effect, it might need factory reconditioning. Sure, you might convince everyone it is legal, you were justified, and you complied with the law when you had it. That's going to be an expensive arguement to have, though.


And, I agree, I'd like to see either the statute that has that language, or the case law that defined it. I believe Pengiun saw some information that supported his desire, and simply stopped there.

PlayboyPenguin
October 11, 2006, 02:28 PM
Strambo,

As much as a I hate doing other peoples homework I will give you some information. :)

In oregon the only law disallowing any type of knife is the regulation againsts concealed carry of said knives. In the Oregon constitution (can't recall which section since I cannot find my fact sheet) it covers an individuals right for self defense (not to be confused with the right to bear arms) and says what weapons are acceptable. If you go to Benchmade or Gerber (both here in Oregon) they will give you copies of the legal information.

This information includes laws as to what you can do and cannot do (mostly what you cannot). It also includes court decisions and state and county ordinances as to what is to be concidered concealed and what is not. What you will not find is a law that says you can own one. Laws are written to be prohibitive not to allow you a right. You also will not find a law saying that you can dye your hair pink, but unless there is one saying you cannot it is allowed. Therefor, you have to find the laws that address the actions you take with said items. You used to be able to read it on packing.com but I cannot get that site to load for some reason today.

You can also just do a quick web search on automatic knife laws by state and find tons of info (almost too much) that will answer most any question you have regrding this issue. They will tell you were you can own them, how you have to carry them, etc. Do not listen to people who like to tell you what is what when they have no actual experience with the situation.

Archie
October 11, 2006, 06:09 PM
I'm not sure what exactly PP meant when he said something about '... a plan...' but I look for exits and openings - like the door to the kitchen and other unmarked doors. I don't have a detailed map with circles and arrows, but I tend to have some thoughts about "If this, then... if that, then..."

And frankly, I've been to ten to twenty karaoke bars and heard many singers. The number of singers who are really bad is very low.

BullfrogKen
October 11, 2006, 06:09 PM
strambo,
I didn't think we'd see that reference to a law construing one inch to be openly visible. But, this is FAR from the first time he's made a factual claim and failed to support it with any evidence.

PlayboyPenguin said: Do not listen to people who like to tell you what is what when they have no actual experience with the situation.


And who might that actually be Penguin?


I can recall when you came here how you agitated everyone with your insults, high-minded arrognance and elitism. You managed to make it to about a dozen folks ignore lists that month. I don't use that feature; yet you make it tempting. But you continue to dish out the insults, even accused a moderator of being racist this week.


You held the opinion at the beginning of this year that you didn't you needed to carry a gun, and questioned everyone else who did as reactionary, paranoid, or otherwise insulted us. Shall I remind you?

guns in the car? (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=2222882&postcount=72)
PlayboyPenguin said: I am not one of "those people" that feel they have the right to be armed every minute of every day (never understood guys who want a gun on their hip all the time...is it a small penis thing? ) so I leave one in my car.

PlayboyPenguin said: Actually, I do not feel the need to carry. I am not a scared person. I am aware of the fact that if confronted I can defend myself...

enthusiast or gun nut thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=2226281&postcount=56)
PlayboyPenguin said: I do not, however, believe that it is appropriate for any joe smoe to be able to walk around with a loaded and deadly weapon.
PlayboyPenguin said: As far as just being prepared...you guys are much more likely to die of a heart attack while out shopping than you are to be attacked. Do you carry a portable defibrillator?


Its interesting to see you have apparently changed your attitude 180 degrees and went from one extreme, insulting us for the desire to be armed at all times, to the other. I'm glad to see you've finally conceeded we just might not be imbalanced, unstable "joe smoe" hicks, you thought we were, but please don't take the position that you are now an expert.

Kevlarman
October 11, 2006, 07:52 PM
If I'm not continuously running the Simpsons inside my head, I'm playing "what if" scenarios instead.

Just like defensive driving, it's always good to be prepared should something unexpected happen. When checking into a hotel, I count the number of doors from my room to the emergency exit.

I sit with my strong side to the wall; although without a CCW, the only thing I have to defend myself is a Benchmade AFCK.

I scope out seedy-looking people.

I check my surroundings before exiting my car after I park.

And I look both ways before I cross the street.
:neener:

STAGE 2
October 11, 2006, 10:13 PM
Yes, if I were in a karaoke bar, I would be looking for all possible exits as well.


Great. Now I have this mental image of PlayboyPenguin breaking into the 2nd verse of Neil Diamond's Sweet Caroline with his switch in one hand and his seecamp in the other. :neener:

TexasRifleman
October 11, 2006, 10:22 PM
reat. Now I have this mental image of PlayboyPenguin breaking into the 2nd verse of Neil Diamond's Sweet Caroline with his switch in one hand and his seecamp in the other.
STAGE 2 is online now Report Bad Post

That's just wrong I tell you....... Neil Diamond...... Ick........ :evil:

Eyesac
October 11, 2006, 11:35 PM
Hahaha!

strambo
October 12, 2006, 12:01 AM
As much as a I hate doing other peoples homework I will give you some information. Thank you for the generosity, I didn't want to go on an online ORS goose chase. I know your knife is legal and legal to carry if not "concealed". You stated "the law says 1 inch must be showing." I just wanted to know which ORS # because I never ran across it and I dont have an ORS with me.

It also includes court decisions and state and county ordinances as to what is to be concidered concealed and what is not.
Thanks, this explains it, and I will request this information from them. This is not a law though, just interpretations of it. Still have the problem that if you use the knife, how do you prove it was clipped on and 1 inch visible before you used it?

PlayboyPenguin
October 12, 2006, 12:13 AM
Bullfrog, are you a small child? You are wrong about the knife laws in Oregon so you are going way back to when I first joined this board and selecting small clips of things I said then presenting them out of context??? I guess I should be flattered but I just find it sad.

I myself have stated time and time again how the opinions of others on this board and intelligent arguments from those people have changed many of my earlier views on guns and CCW (you definately not included in this group of people). I guess you just overlooked all that in your pathetic little smear campaign.

I repeat once again (not directed at any certain person)..."sometimes the biggest threat to RKBA are the small minded and spiteful people that proclaim to love it so".

Truely, truely sad.

PlayboyPenguin
October 12, 2006, 12:18 AM
Thanks, this explains it, and I will request this information from them. This is not a law though, just interpretations of it. Still have the problem that if you use the knife, how do you prove it was clipped on and 1 inch visible before you used it?

That is a matter that would have to be decided by the courts but it is really the same thing as asking "how would you prove your firearm was being properly concealed and not provoking someone" if you ever had to shoot someone. In self defense it is unlikely a DA would prosecute on such a small matter since it is only a class b misdemeanor to carry it concealed anyway.

I am not sure where to find all the information available but I do know when I bought my Godfather it came with a little paper that described the clip and how it was designed to meet the non-concealed carry requirements of my state and others.

STAGE 2
October 12, 2006, 12:18 AM
Still have the problem that if you use the knife, how do you prove it was clipped on and 1 inch visible before you used it?


Umm.... unless things have changed, the burden is not his to prove.

Eyesac
October 12, 2006, 12:21 AM
...have a prove it or shut up attitude...

Yeah, tell us where this description of concealment is described as "one inch showing"

Proof please.

Truly truly sad.

Aaaw I'm just messing around Penguin...:D

PlayboyPenguin
October 12, 2006, 12:22 AM
If I'm not continuously running the Simpsons inside my head, I'm playing "what if" scenarios instead.
"This lesbian bar doesn't have a fire exit!!! Good luck in your death trap girls!!!"-Homer

That ones runs through my head all the time in a bar. :)

Great. Now I have this mental image of PlayboyPenguin breaking into the 2nd verse of Neil Diamond's Sweet Caroline with his switch in one hand and his seecamp in the other.
You can rest assured I am never foolish enough to try and actually sing. I have a singing voice that sounds like strangling a cat. my partner however is a trained vocalist. gay bar karaoke is more like musical theater than it is regular karaoke. Some real talent there.

PlayboyPenguin
October 12, 2006, 12:25 AM
Yeah, tell us where this description of conceilment is described as "one inch showing"
I called my local sheriff's office and two major knife manufacturers here in Oregon (Benchmade and Gerber). Feel free to verify this information yourself. :)

My lawyer's definition is even less restrictive. He said if even the clip is visible it is not concealed since to be concealed it must be completely hidden from view. Similar to the reason why we can be charged with not concealing our weapons if they become at all visible while carrying.

Eyesac
October 12, 2006, 12:31 AM
gay bar karaoke is more like musical theater than it is regular karaoke

Gay people are better at singing? Do you have any data to back this up?

BullfrogKen
October 12, 2006, 01:06 AM
STAGE 2 said: Umm.... unless things have changed, the burden is not his to prove.

The burden is roughly equivalent to one we have we asked for evidence we have a carry permit for our gun, have a sales tax certificate hanging on the wall of a retail store, or otherwise have to comply with the law.

PlayboyPenguin said: You are wrong about the knife laws in Oregon so you are going way back to when I first joined this board and selecting small clips of things I said then presenting them out of context???

Not exactly. You have in the course of less than a year completely reversed your position and attitude on concealed carry, and now expect to be taken, at your word, as an authority on the matter. Forgive me if I find your credibility lacking, but I do. I still would like to see someplace this authoritative, precise language from a statute or case that you claim is so very clear. As I said, if its widely known, why can't it be found, and why are you the only one so far who knows of it? Are you expecting all of us to rely on marketing literature you got from a manufacturer, biased to sell its goods to a customer, as your sole source? This Sheriff's office, can they cite the reference, or it is just their practice? Its a big difference. Now you're stating your attorney, real estate it was, told you only the "clip" needs be visible. I'm still suspicious of your claim.


PlayboyPenguin said: Bullfrog, are you a small child? . . . . I repeat once again (not directed at any certain person)..."sometimes the biggest threat to RKBA are the small minded and spiteful people that proclaim to love it so".


And again with the insults. Small child, and I assume small mind? If you make an insult to no particular person, but address it to the group, then in your rationale is it not really an insult?

I'm persuaded you enjoy being flamboyant, attracting attention, and starting trouble. I guess that's just your way. I enjoy debates as much as the next guy, but I don't get personal with them When you take it there so quickly, as you often do, it bothers me. You insulted this community - meaning gun owners in general and us in specific - when I first saw you arrive. You are still doing it. You may have changed your mind regards to walking about society personally armed, but you haven't changed how you think about us "small minded joe smoes".


Honestly, I think its a wonderful, great sign of maturity and growth to see one persuaded about such a personal, grave matter. And I'm pleased to see you enjoying the rights some of us have exercised for decades. However, I bristle at your attitude about how you make claims with "obvious evidence" then decide its for us to disprove them. You are a product of higher education. Is that the form of dissertation you were permitted?


I'm sorry to have highjacked the topic, all. I'm sure this is about 3 posts from being locked by now, and I know a few of you would have liked to see that law about switchblades before it happened. I know I would, simply because I've never seen language so precise before and would like to learn its history. Hopefully, we can remain civil enough to permit someone else to post it before that occurs.

cassandrasdaddy
October 12, 2006, 01:17 AM
i lived in dc for much of my life and never found i needed to worry that much. beyond what is for me a normal sa i lived in some of the cheapest parts of town without needing more.
but different strokes for different folks

dasmi
October 12, 2006, 01:17 AM
too much to think about...think I'll stay home and throw a pizza in the oven,draw my shades,turn out my lights,load my shotgun,and sit silently in the dark waiting ...waiting...waiting...
That's me.

PlayboyPenguin
October 12, 2006, 01:32 AM
Bullfrog,

On whom you think this behavior reflects badly? Me or you?

I have admitted many times in the past that I have been "converted" in a sense as to my attitudes towards concealed carry. Is this something you see as a bad thing? People changing their opinions more positively towards CCW?

As to me confessing to be an expert on CCW, i would like to have you repeat where I said any such thing. I simply stated how things are here in Oregon (even stated I called other authorities for clarification). You just seem to be unable to except the fact that...

A. you can own an automatic knife in oregon (even though other oregonians and many websites have backed me up even though you do not or never have lived here)
B. you can carry it non-concealed in oregon (see above comments)

You cannot change the facts of the discussion so you then turn to trying to smear me for some odd reason by going all the way back to when i first joined this board and selecting old clips to suit your agenda and posting them without the context of the conversation they were presented in nor relevent information added since. I am sorry I am somehow such a threat to you in some way that I cannot understand.

IV Troop
October 12, 2006, 01:50 AM
Holy cow!

Here I sit in the middle of the war in Iraq and I find myself NOWHERE near as tightly wrapped as Mr Penguin. Perhaps I could suggest a good mental health proffessional in the greater Portland area.;)

Justin
October 12, 2006, 02:14 AM
Closed. For obvious reasons.

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