aught2 also ought ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ôt)
A cipher; zero.
May 15, 2003, 03:05 PM
one of my buddy's said he cant wait til he has grandkids or great grandkids, so he can tell them stories about what we did...
"way back in aught three my buddy and I..."
May 15, 2003, 03:09 PM
When I was a kid, we hung out at the local sportsman's club. There was a guy who spent most of his time there since he was retired. He had been a Marine back in the 1930s and had shot on the Marine Corp. rifle team using an '03 Springfield.
The caliber, according to him was thrity OH six.
I have said it that way ever since.
May 15, 2003, 03:17 PM
It is kinda funny and I can see where it could lead to confusion, esp those that weren't around adult shooters much as kids... The .30-03 from the 1903 then into the .30-06.
I've always said 'thirty aught six' but have never said, 'let me see than nineteen aught three A three rifle there'. :p
Getting a bit further out there... how about
6.5x55 (and 6.5 Swede doesn't count)
7mm-08 (betcha say 'oh eight', not 'aught eight'
And for the record, Lapua is a three syllable word with the emphasis on the first syllable regardless of how the most tactical trainer has pronounced. Heard some from a very reputable barrel company put the emphasis on the second syllable. Well... they do make better barrels than they make Finnish translators. And while were on a Finnish kick, it's pronounced sak-ko not pronounced like the watch and again with the emphasis on the first syllable. ;) And Swarovski is swarohosky, not svarovsky. There's probably someone out there with a Sako chambered in 338 Lapua Magnum topped with a Swarovski 10x that pronounces all three of them incorrectly. :cuss:
And last and certainly not least, Leupold only has two syllables... 'lu' and 'pold' Not louis pold or lu ah pold.
May 15, 2003, 03:36 PM
In my experience, the cartridge is always "thirty aught six", but the rifle is the "nineteen oh three". The current year is "twenty oh three"; I have never heard "twenty aught three" though it may be used in other areas.
For 1903, just "nineteen three" is correct, but for 2003 you can't say "twenty three" since that would be confused with 23.
May 15, 2003, 03:47 PM
You say 'twenty oh three' for the year? I say 'two thousand three' with no 'oh' and no 'and'.
And that is the official book of Hoyle way to say it as well. :neener:
So... how do you group the decade to gether... we had the 'eighties' and the 'nineties' Are we now in the 'double ohs' or the 'aughts'? or something else. I guess in this day of boy bands and Britany and Christian, we could be in the 'pre-teenies'... I should copyright that. Don't think I've ever heard that one before. :p
May 15, 2003, 03:56 PM
There was also a 30-01 cartridge...
Chambered in only a few rifles and truly in the collector realm.
May 15, 2003, 04:01 PM
it's always been the "thirty aught six" cartridge to me, the "nineteen oh three springfield" or the "oh three A three rifle"
and yes, last decade was the nineties, this decade is the aughts, next decade is the teens, etc.
May 15, 2003, 05:12 PM
its the 30 caliber rifle cartridge
30 aught 6
and thats from a dood living in the aughts
May 15, 2003, 05:36 PM
And last and certainly not least, Leupold only has two syllables... 'lu' and 'pold' Not louis pold or lu ah pold.
Any good German would tell you that it's
May 15, 2003, 05:42 PM
Someone OUGHT to stop me...:D
May 15, 2003, 05:52 PM
same as 1/0 wire is one aught, a 30-06 would be a thirty aught six.
May 15, 2003, 06:04 PM
I knew I shouldn't have clicked this---now my head hurts.-----lol
May 15, 2003, 06:16 PM
Of course, if you're from the south, its thuddyoddsix.
May 15, 2003, 06:38 PM
bakersfield counts as being in the south, and we pronounce it as thutty aught six.
i mustly just refer to 30-06 as just "aught six", though.
May 15, 2003, 08:47 PM
When I'm playing Old Codger, I'll say "ought-six". Around casual shooters or non-gunners, I'll more likely say "oh-six". Just depends on audience and mood. :) (I have been known to mess around with the language.) The "ought", really, is an archaic usage.
I really like the couplet I ran across in one of Jeff Cooper's columns: "There aren't many things a man can't fix, with a few hundred dollars and a thirty-ought-six." I occasionally use that as a signature line...
May 15, 2003, 09:18 PM
I like to say "aught" just to sound real old. I say the year is "aught three."
May 15, 2003, 09:24 PM
That's it... for the next week, every time I have the opportunity to say 'oh' or 'zero' I'm gonna say 'aught' in its place and see how many strange looks I get.
By the way, though I call it the 'thirty aught six' the fine fellow that introduced me to shooting just called it an 'aught six'. I guess since I'm such a fan of the 25-06, on some level I feel the need to ensure that everyone knows when I'm talking about the 30-06. Of course, to the 90% of hunters that own a 30-06 and don't know much about the 25-06, there is simply 'THE aught six'. :p
May 15, 2003, 10:13 PM
You made my day!
I get the squidgies whenever I hear 'NOOK-YA-LURR'... :banghead:
I did learn something about Lapua (first syllable emphasis) and Swarovski ( no V ).
I knew a guy that said, " Sa-VOR-ski ". ARRGH...
It sounded like 'Bret FARV' ( It's spelled - Favre, like 'macabre').
Kinda like WARSHING your clothes - where'd that R come from?
Picky, picky, picky! :D
And, I say "30 OTT SIX; 2 THOUSAND 3; and 19 oh 3", THANK YOU!"
Living in the DOUBLE OH'S. :neener:
May 15, 2003, 10:16 PM
May 15, 2003, 11:01 PM
Aught has to be the correct term. Remember Jeffro (of the Beverly Hillbillies) was a Double Aught Spy, and he had a 6th grade ejumacation.
May 15, 2003, 11:03 PM
I believe he was a "double naught" spy...he couldn't even pronounce aught correctly. Or maybe it was colloquial?
May 15, 2003, 11:22 PM
"Of course, if you're from the south, its thuddyoddsix"
Err, we don't talk like that.
I have always said aught six and if someone said oh six, I corrected them.
As for 7mm-08, I also say aught eight. Always have.
May 15, 2003, 11:29 PM
Nahhhh, Sulaco, it's sebmoh8. Some folks have a problem pronouncing sebm. There's about a half a flat e in there, sorta like the silent h in catheterpillar.
May 15, 2003, 11:51 PM
OK... now that we have the serious stuff sorted out...
Anyone remember how to pronounce Steve Martin's character's last name in "The Man With Two Brains'?
To refresh your memory, it's spelled, 'Hfuhruhurr' and I was never entirely convinced that he said it the same way throughout the movie. :p
May 15, 2003, 11:54 PM
Haha Art, now that's funny!
Made me spit my Coke out!
May 16, 2003, 12:04 AM
No takers for "Thuddy minus Oh Six "? :eek:
May 16, 2003, 12:36 AM
You mean the rest of you don't say Caliber .30, Model of 1906"?
May 16, 2003, 01:47 AM
you're probably right, but I thought the original caliber for the Springfield was 30-03?
Sure the thing was drawn up earlier, but I thought the original was chambered in the 30 caliber model 03 rifle from which the round took it's name. They later changed the case slightly in 1906.
Respectfully, and curious to find out more.
"There ain't much that a man can't fix, with enough money and a Thirty-ought-Six."
May 16, 2003, 05:38 AM
Can we do carbine again? :D
May 16, 2003, 10:20 AM
Development of a new rifle and new cartridge to replace the Krag and the .30-40 went on at the same time, and there were numerous iterations of both, just as there were numerous iterations of what would become the 7.62x51.
The .30-01 was paired with the first series of Mauser-style rifles developed by the Army, and may actually have first been tested in a Modified Krag rifle.
It differed from the .30-03 in that it had a much thicker rim, which was quickly found to be not very satisfactory with the Mauser controlled feed rifles, IIRC.
With the tweek on the rim, the cartridge went into production as the .30-03 with the same bullet as found in the old Krag (220-gr. round nose).
May 16, 2003, 10:23 AM
The .30-'03 used a 220-grain bullet, IIRC, and had a longer case neck. They shortened the neck in '06, and went to a lighter bullet.
There was all manner of meddling around with loadings. The 172-grain boat-tailed bullet had a greater effective range than the 153-grain flat-based bullets, but there were all manner of complaints about recoil. After a "mere" 25 or 30 years, the Army settled down with the M2 Ball ammo with a bullet of 153 grains. (Or was it 173 and 152? Ah, memory.) There's nothing new in the flailing and thrashing with 5.56 ammo...
May 16, 2003, 11:11 AM
The main reason why the .30-03 case was shortened was advances by Du Pont in military rifle powders.
This was, by and large, still the infancy of smokeless rifle propellants.
Du Pont came up with I believe Military Rifle 15, which was higher energy and lower density than the powder originally loaded into the .30-03.
The original replacement bullet for the 220-gr. round nose was a 150-gr. flat base pointed bullet.
That was replaced by a 173-gr. bullet (and the powder changed to, I believe, MR 17 or 17 1/2). A couple of things became evident with that change -- recoil was higher, the heavier bullet had the same nominal muzzle velocity as the lighter bullet, and almost every military rifle range in the nation was rendered obsolete by the 173's MUCH extended range.
When development of the Garand started, and MacArthur ordered its caliber changed to .30-06, the 173-gr. loadings presented a challenge to John Garand that he never was fully able to solve.
The decision to switch back to a 150-gr. bullet finally made the M1 a truly workable proposition.
Remaining stocks of 173-gr. ammo were then earmarked for use in machine gun.
May 16, 2003, 12:30 PM
Thanx, Mike. Phil Sharpe lists loads with DuPont 15 and 17-1/2, along with Hercules Hi-Vel #2, etc. I often wondered about those DuPont powders, since I think they were pretty much off the market by 1950.
I recall reading, somewhere, that the 173-grain bullet had some 50% more range (max? effective?) than the 150s...5,300 yards for max range comes to mind.
May 16, 2003, 12:49 PM
The old Military Rifle powders were replaced by the Improved Military Rifle powders in Du Pont's line up. I can't remember for certain right now, but I THINK the powder that replaced MR 17 1/2 in American .30-06 ammo was IMR4895 around 1941.
The advances in rifle powder technology leading up to and during WW II were very dramatic, and Du Pont I think rightly thought that the old MR powders were completely obsolete.
Add to that the fact that there were enormous quantities of surplus powder available after the war, which cut into Du Pont's sales to begin with, and there just wasn't much reason to hold on to a series of obsolete powders for a shrinking civilian market.
The extra range given by the 173-gr. project was dramatic, but I'm not 100% sure of the exact figures. I can get them when I get home this evening, but I think max range for the 150-gr. bullet was around 5,000 yards, and max for the 173-gr. bullet was closer to 8,500.
Here's a trivia question for you...
What's the oldest military smokeless powder still in production?
CZ 75 BD
May 16, 2003, 01:02 PM
thirty naught six. This year is naught three.
Aught = all,everything
Naught = nothing
May 16, 2003, 03:45 PM
Anybody out there load their shotguns with "Double Oh Buckshot"?
That's why I say, "Thirty Aught Six" and "Twenty-Five Aught Six".
But I do say, "7 em-em Oh Eight" because it came from the "Three Oh Eight". (Which had nothing to do with the year.)
May 16, 2003, 03:51 PM
CZ 75 BD, I wuz just browsin' a Brit-writen article; he commented we had moved from the nineties to the noughties.
Or, remembering Clinton, from the naughties to the noughties...
May 16, 2003, 04:44 PM
The double naught spy once said that he ought to have thought to have sought to have bought more 30-06, before the financial drought brought his supply down.
Pass the ammo! :neener:
May 16, 2003, 05:29 PM
Nope, but good guess. I should have been a little more specific and said American smokeless powder.
It's the venerable Bullseye. It was first developed in the early to mid 1890s by Hercules for military and commercial applications.
I was also wrong on the powder for the 173-gr. load. It would appear from my notes that Du Pont developed one of the first IMR powders for it, 1185, which was never available commercially.
Hi Vel No. 1 was also used by the military in .30-06 in 150-gr. loadings, as was Du Pont's Pyro .30 DG.
And, finally, it would appear that Du Pont 15, 17, and 17 1/2 were considered to be IMR powders.
It's been a long time since I read all that information on obsolete powders.
May 17, 2003, 06:57 PM
God, Ilove a trivia fest like that!
Thank you muchly Mike and Art. I consider myself fairly knowlegeable on factory artridges and wildcats. The 30-01 is a new one for me. But it's filed away now and not to be forgotten short of senile dementia.
May 17, 2003, 07:26 PM
I agree russlate... I consider myself pretty well versed... then I read a post where Art and Mike exchange banter and then I regress back into my little hole. :p
May 18, 2003, 12:31 AM
BluRidgDav, while needing to get an "e" key on his keyboard:) , brought to my attention an inconsistency that I have always taken for granted. I've always called the .30-06 a "thirty aught six," but a .25-06 a "twenty five oh six." I'll be the first to acknowledge the inconsistency, and now I'm not sure how to pronounce the .25-06.
May 18, 2003, 12:33 AM
As I mentioned earlier, I have said thirty OH six since childhood, but have always said twentyfive ought six.
May 18, 2003, 10:17 AM
:D To-may-to, to-mah-to...
Hit don't make no nevermind, nohow...
May 18, 2003, 03:38 PM
No no no...
May 18, 2003, 04:39 PM
you can say, "yeeeeeeaaap, i remember back there in aught three, when i was just a pup..."
and your grandkids will say "ohh noooo, not agaaaiinn!!"
May 18, 2003, 05:00 PM
I just love a good discussion, and this is one of the best ever on THP! Isn't freedom of speech great.......
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