[Cellar Dweller]

OK, what is the real deal? Some otherwise acceptable pistols become junk (in some eyes) because the safety/decock isn't in the "right" place...

Is it because of location of safety (higher vs. lower)?

Is is because safe/fire is "reversed?" (If so, do they ever NOT move their furniture around because they could no longer get out of bed?)

Is it because "it's not how JMB, Gawd of all designers ever, designed it!"

Is it because some users can't or won't adapt to the difference? (If so, how do they operate a Glock or a DA or SA revolver with NO safety?)

Or is there some inherent design flaw, like longer flexy linkages or more potentially breakable parts?

[Boats]

Well how long is your thumb? I think that many slide safety detractors site two primary objections: 1) The levers are too high to reliably hit with the thumb without a grip shift. 2) The slide levers are exactly where you pinch the slide to rack, clear, or slingshot the slide, and thus uncomfortable obstructions to fast gun handling.

Though I prefer frame mounted safeties for convenience's sake, I have owned many Berettas with the slide mounted safety and never had a serious problem handling them. Most of the time, on "F" model Berettas, one doesn't carry with the safety on because it is a DA first shot pistol, making carrying with the safety "on" rather like wearing suspenders and a belt. On "G" model Berettas, one never needs to make a speed decock.:rolleyes:

BTW, my thumbs are plenty long enough apparently.

[Sean Smith]

The advantage of a slide-mounted safety is that you can easily make it an active firing pin block type safety. The advantage of a frame-mounted safety is that you can actually reach it. :D

[BevrFevr]

:D

[Cellar Dweller]

Clarification on my thumb(s), obviously YMMV:

Slide mounted:
PP, P95, P97 I can "arc" perfectly with the tip of my thumb.
P-22 requires a shift.

Frame mounted:
Ballester-Molina needs a shift.
Tokarev with import safety is natural movement, yet in the way.
CZ52 requires a shift in grip (and stiff!).
Beretta 1934 is backwards and awkward (and stiff!).



Was looking at CZ75/most clones vs Baby Eagle specifically, probably go with the BE (since I can reach the safety fine
:neener: ).

[BevrFevr]

Do you prefer slide mounted safeties?

I buy cars with standard transmissions because that is what I like. I can drive an auto just fine but won't usually buy one.

Don't look now but the gun world is cram packed full of people with strong preferences. Lots of people don't like plastic guns. Others don't like non 1911 designs. Some people just like all kinds of crap. It's seems like you haven't run into alot of gun nuts or you would know the answer to your own question.

-bevr

[gudel]

my ruger 95 has slide mounted safety while my usp45 has frame mounted safety. the slide mounted safety is okay, it's just the design is kind of awkward. when you decock, it goes to safety on the ruger. in hk, when you decock, it is still hot.
but less parts on the frame if you have slide safety.

[Andrew Wyatt]

i like safeties that 1. work in a direction that is not counterintuitive. and 2. can actually be reached.


i find the cz 52 safety is damn close to perfect, location wise.


if you need to shift your hand around to reach a 1911 style safety, you're either not using the proper hold, or are some kind of wierd mutant. with such a safety, the string side thumb rests on top of the safety at all times (this keeps it from being accidently engaged)

[Mike Irwin]

I don't like slide mounted safeties/decockers such as the current crop of Berettas & S&W's because it's difficult to quickly and surely operate.

I also don't much care for frame mounted safeties that move down to engage the safe.

After I started shooting a 1911 a lot I finally came to realize what people were talking about when they talked about the "proper" (aka 1911-style) operation of the safety -- Up is safe, down is fire -- and why it is so attractive.

My 1911-A1, my Taurus PT-22, my Browning High Power, my Beretta 92 (an early 92), and my CZ-70 all have safeties that operate in this manner.

For the life of me, though, I simply can't remember which way the safety operates on my EAA Witness...

[Tamara]

Make a fist as though you're grasping a gun. Notice which way your thumb curls. The "down-fire/up-safe" safety located on the left rear corner of the frame is just good ergos as it doesn't require a separate movement of the thumb to disengage. It ain't a "one true sword", and there's nothing preventing someone from mastering a different style, but from a 'human engineering' standpoint, it's awful efficient.

When I own DA pistols with slide-mounted "monkeytails", I just use them as decockers and carry the gun off safe.

[10-Ring]

The frame mounted ones just seem more intuitive.

[cratz2]

Yep... I've been shooting 1911s ever since I've been shooting anything that went bang. That's where a safety is supposed to be mounted. Guns with slide mounted safeties/decockers aren't so much junk or even a turn off... the safety just won't get used. When I'm practicing seriously or with a friend, when I'm done with the 1911, either the slide is back or the safety is up. When is the last time I engaged the 'safety' on an S&W or a Beretta? I have no clue... ;)

[Skunkabilly]

You work a Beretta safety quick if you know to work your thumb to flip it 'forward' instead of 'up'....

[M1911]

Is it because of location of safety (higher vs. lower)?

Is is because safe/fire is "reversed?"
Yes. First, it is very easy to hit a frame-mounted safety with your thumb. It is easy to miss a slide-mounted safety. (Ayoob recommends that if you carry a S&W or Beretta on safe, that you raise the safety as you grip the gun in the holster.)

Second, it is easy to accidentally trip a slide-mounted safety while cycling the slide.

Third, I've gotten used to up-is-safe, down-is-off-safe, so no way I'm going to carry something that works the opposite way. That would be like sometimes driving a car with the accelerator pedal on the left, just for kicks.

Try them both, see what you like. If the S&W/Beretta system works for you, great. It doesn't work for me.

[Mike Irwin]

"You work a Beretta safety quick if you know to work your thumb to flip it 'forward' instead of 'up'...."

Not my Beretta... :)

Frame mounted safety a la 1911...

[JPM70535]

Having used both slide and frame mounted safeties, I find that with a little practice both are about equally usable. When I carried S&W autos I had no trouble engaging or disengaging the safety although I rarely used it other than as a decocker. Now I carry a 1911 type pistol, (Para C7-45) and even though it is hammer down only, I use the safety as a matter of course and find it a completely natural movement on the draw. My right thumb operates it easily and I have short thumbs.

As to overall preference, I don't have one.

THE SECOND AMENDMENT GUARANTEES ALL THE OTHERS!!

[Zundfolge]

My Makarov's slide mounted safety is easy to use. In fact if it was frame mounted I'd imagine it would dig into the knuckle of my thumb.

But my carry gun is a Kahr ... I like the "safety" on it more :D

[Skunkabilly]

Mike Irwin:
Not my Beretta...
Frame mounted safety a la 1911...

I hate you.

[Mike Irwin]

Well, don't be too quick to hate, Skunk.

It doesn't have a decocker...

[Skunkabilly]

What model is it? Picture picture picture!!! :D

[Mike Irwin]

It's an early Italian-made 92, probably made in the 1970s.

It has the magazine release button on the lower left rear part of the grip.

It has the old-style safety.

No decocker, and no firing pin block.

It shoots like a trooper.

I'll try to snap a couple of pix this weekend.

[Skunkabilly]

Ahh...ah thousaaand paahhhdons Meestah Irrrrwin...

I was in a jealous rage because I thought you had the 92 Stock, Combat or Billenium... :o

[curt]

I only have one with a slide mounted safety, a 92FS. But i don't like them due to the safety being in the way when i do slide manipultations. I don't really have a problem getting it off safe as my thumb is pointed along the slide as i grip the gun and naturally punches the slide off. The only problem with that is that i'm taking the safety off while the gun is holstered. So my solution is to not use the safety while holstered, just to decock. I don't need a safety with a DA/SA gun anyways.

[Mike Irwin]

Oh, you mean over priced and over ugly?

No, can't say that I do.

I've a Beretta with something different, and INFINITELY more appealing...

It's a Beretta with a history.