8mm Mauser Ballistics?


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Nightcrawler
October 11, 2006, 02:53 PM
What are the typical ballistics for 7.62x57mm Mauser rounds? I've heard muzzle velocity figures as high as 2,900 feet per second. Given that the old German service round had, I believe, a 196-grain bullet, that's pretty impressive. Close to .300 Win Mag territory, if I'm not mistaken.

Anybody got the real scoop? I understand, too, that a most US made commercial ammo in 7.92mm is downloaded somewhat based on fears of it being loaded into an ancient gun and damaging it.

What I'd really like? A semiauto RPK or Vepr type rifle with an 18" barrel, 20 round magazines, in 8mm Mauser. Chrome lined barrel, good for shooting up the steel cased corrosive Yugoslavian ammo that' so cheap. :D

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ocabj
October 11, 2006, 03:06 PM
The 154gr ammo pushes at 2900. The 196 is usually around 2500-2600. I am referring to surplus ammo.

Nightcrawler
October 11, 2006, 03:08 PM
I see. Thank you.

Sounds like a pretty versatile cartridge, too. Hunting wise, I mean.

ocabj
October 11, 2006, 03:14 PM
I'm not a hunter, but it would appear so. Although, I don't see any advantages of 8mm Mauser over .30-06.

Cosmoline
October 11, 2006, 03:33 PM
They're about equal, though ball 8x57JS is more potent than ball .30'06. 8x57JS is slightly shorter and uses a slightly wider bullet, '06 has a slightly longer case and a little more capacity.

MachIVshooter
October 11, 2006, 05:53 PM
What are the typical ballistics for 7.62x57mm Mauser rounds

7.92mm. Two versions exist: the J. Patrone and the S. Patrone. J. atrone is the older version, using .318" round nose bullets loaded to lower pressure. It launched the 226 gr. RN bullet at 2,100 FPS for 2,200 ft/ lbs. The modern S. Patrone (JS) load used a 154 gr. .323" Spitzer loaded to 2,900 FPS for 2850 ft/lbs. As an aside, firing a JS round in a rifle designed for the J cartridge is dangerous, to put it mildly. Assuming that the round in question is the modern 8x57 JS (infinitely more common), it is close to the .30-06. The military ball loads actually give the 8x57 a slight edge (our M2 ball load was a 150 gr. Spitzer at 2650 FPS for 2,670 ft/lbs), but modern sporting loads with heavier bullets give the '06 more punch. Purely acedemic, though, as both are capable of taking the same animals at the same ranges.

The 8x57mm Mauser cartridge has also parented at least as many other cartridges as the 30-06. Our own .257 Roberts and 6mm Remington are great examples.

carterbeauford
October 11, 2006, 07:46 PM
What I'd really like? A semiauto RPK or Vepr type rifle with an 18" barrel, 20 round magazines, in 8mm Mauser. Chrome lined barrel, good for shooting up the steel cased corrosive Yugoslavian ammo that' so cheap

That would be a very badass rifle.

My purely unscientific experience with 7.92x57 is that it will penetrate 5/8 steel plate at 100 yards. So I would not want to be on its receiving end.

It is the not quite as flat shooting .30-06 of the east.

Stiletto Null
October 11, 2006, 07:53 PM
Ever heard of the Zastava M76?

It's basically an overgrown AK that fires 8mm.

Unfortunately, the things are very expensive in the US...apparently the cheap imports were too easy to convert to auto (*** is the point, you wouldn't be able to control it anyway), so now we're "stuck" with locally build semi-only receivers.

Anyway, 8mm is the .30cal of Europe. .30-06 will have longer legs by a bit if you're reloading (more case capacity, higher BC bullets available), but for the most part, the two cartridges are equivalent.

Makes sense, considering that .30-06 was basically a ripoff of 8mm JS (the modern form with .323 bullets).

mikey_mick
November 30, 2006, 04:14 PM
Speaking of RPK's, I was looking for parts kits for them. Does anyone know of a place that sells them?

I found a place that sells RPK receivers in 7.62x54r. Would any parts off of a regular akm kit work with that receiver?

I'm new to THR so excuse me if I don't do something right.

carterbeauford
November 30, 2006, 05:13 PM
Speaking of RPK's, I was looking for parts kits for them. Does anyone know of a place that sells them?

I found a place that sells RPK receivers in 7.62x54r. Would any parts off of a regular akm kit work with that receiver?

I'm new to THR so excuse me if I don't do something right.

Welcome to THR! Let us know your location so we may advise a list of class 3 dealers in your state.

Impactguns has class 3 stuff.

alexanderplatz
November 30, 2006, 07:36 PM
www.remington.com has some online ballistics tables and charts for their various calibers of ammunition. (LINK (http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/))

You can compare up to three different calibers including various bullet weights of the same caliber. For example, here's a comparison of 170 gr 8 mm Mauser vs 168 gr 30/06:

Velocity (ft/sec)
Cartridge Type Bullet .....................Muzzle.....100.....200.....300.....400.....500
Remington® Express® 170 SP CL......2360.......1969...1622....1333...1123....997
Premier Core-Lokt Ultra 168 CLUB......2800.......2546...2306....2079...1866...1668

kentucky_smith
November 30, 2006, 07:48 PM
Just remember the factory 8mm is downloaded quite a bit.

cracked butt
November 30, 2006, 07:56 PM
Remington loadings of any european cartridge are a joke.

Jim Watson
November 30, 2006, 07:59 PM
US 8mm ammunition is a descendant of the 1920s Remington 8mm Special. It is loaded to low pressure with a thin jacketed bullet big enough to shoot well in an S bore, soft and light enough to be safe in a J bore.

Euro-spec 8mm is an entirely different thing, as above. About 97% of .30-06 capacity which is no real difference.

Kurac
November 30, 2006, 09:14 PM
I have some Turkish suprplus 8x57 loaded with 150gr FMJ's I hear they run from 2,900 to about 3,000 fps

Dr.Rob
December 1, 2006, 12:53 AM
I wouldn't hesitate to take an 8mm Mauser for elk.

196 @ 2500 fps is no slouch. 170 @2700 is very much like a 30-06 load.

If a good bullet could be had, loaded to proper specs the 8mm looks like a great hunting round. Like these (pricey but it's what I'm talking about)

http://www.cpcartridge.com/8mmmauser-P.htm

Stiletto Null
December 1, 2006, 12:55 AM
Hornady's 195gr SP is (from everything I hear) an awesome bullet. Nosler, Sierra, etc. (all the usual suspects) also make perfectly good hunting bullets.

dfaugh
December 1, 2006, 10:34 AM
Just remember the factory 8mm is downloaded quite a bit.

Yes, U.S. ammo is downloaded for safety in older guns. Some the milsurp (Turkish 147 grn) loads are quite "hot". I haven't had any luck with milsurp ammo, for any kind of accuracy, anyway.

Sellior and Belloit makes a good, stout load, I think 196 grain(don't have any handy), that I have had good accuracy with. Its a RN lead nosed bullet as I recall.

Ballistics, with similar weight bullets, will be very, very close to 30-06. If you handload, you can whip up some excellent hunting loads, as the bullet selection for 8mm has been expanding.

P.S. I'm currently working on an 8mm-06 AI build up which, with handloads (necessary for a wildcat anyway) has power levels that are approaching .338 Win Mag levels, with considerably less powder. Since this is gonna be a short barrel, "scout" configuration, it WILL have a good recoil pad and ported barrel, or maybe a muzzle break.

kfranz
December 1, 2006, 10:48 AM
What I'd really like? A semiauto RPK or Vepr type rifle with an 18" barrel, 20 round magazines, in 8mm Mauser. Chrome lined barrel, good for shooting up the steel cased corrosive Yugoslavian ammo that' so cheap

While it doesn't fit your criteria perfectly, the Hakim will take easily modified 25 rd. MG-13 mags. I reckon you could chop the barrel if you really wanted to...

AJAX22
December 1, 2006, 10:57 AM
The Hakim is a badazz, its verry high on my list of must own rifles.

I've had limited experiance with 8mm, mostly old turk mausers and surpluss FMJ rounds,

but my friends and I used to go and break up big rocks with ours (at a distance) and we chopped down several trees using nothing but them.

The 8mm was very impresive as it would pass compleatly through the trunk blowin a nice piece out of the backside.

we tried a few other rounds in a few other rifles, but we couldn't afford to do it with anything but the mauser, milsurp ammo is cheap and effective.

Stiletto Null
December 1, 2006, 12:23 PM
I actually get pretty decent results (somewhere under 4MOA, I guess I should actually do some benched groups sometime) using Yugo milsurp through my FN-49.

dfaugh
December 1, 2006, 04:16 PM
I actually get pretty decent results (somewhere under 4MOA, I guess I should actually do some benched groups sometime) using Yugo milsurp through my FN-49.

Errr...4 MOA...accurate?:) That's what I meant about surplus ammo...I never got better than 3-4 MOA off a bench...but with commercial ammo can get 1 MOA or a bit less... This is in a scoped, bedded (target stock) rifle.

Tony Williams
December 1, 2006, 09:08 PM
The hottest 7.92x57 loadings were probably the v-Munition (verbessert = improved) developed for the WW2 MG 17 aircraft guns. The guns had to be specially modified to work with the ammo, then wouldn't function with the standard stuff. Barrel life was only 2,000 rounds. The ammo was identified by a green lacquered ring painted around the bullet. There were several loadings:

AP: 177 grains at 2,840 fps
API: 156 grains at 2,970 fps
HEI: 167 grains at 2,805 fps.

It's unlikely that you'll find any as shooting ammo, but it's worth bearing in mind...

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

merpho
December 2, 2006, 12:23 AM
Dr. Rob thanks for the cpc referral. Though the prices are high how many rounds would a person shoot in a hunting season? This year I had no shots during deer season, used 13 rounds to target and enjoy. So a box of 20 could last me several seasons and save me from having to reload.

possum
December 2, 2006, 01:49 AM
when i had my czech mauser i shot it all the time, and there happened to be a guy at the range that was a big mil-surp fan but didn't own that many and i let him shoot the rifle and the two types of rds that i had, some yugo, and some turkish. the turkish was kicking the crap ou of me and definetly moreso than the yugo, so he was curious and set up the chronograph, the turkish was at 2925fos average, and i don't quite remember the velocity of the yugo but i know it was slower.

Bwana John
December 2, 2006, 09:59 AM
The 8x57mm Mauser cartridge has also parented at least as many other cartridges as the 30-06. Our own .257 Roberts and 6mm Remington are great examples
I thought 7mm Mauser was the parent cartridge for the 257 Roberts and the 6mm Rem.

I guess they could be formed from either cartridge, the 7mm would be easyer to neck down.

macedogg1
May 10, 2010, 09:37 PM
I recently got my hands on a 8mm yugo mauser. i went out and bought 196 grain wolf gold ammo, does any one now the ballistics for this ammo?

saturno_v
May 10, 2010, 10:27 PM
Loaded to their max specs the 30-06, 8x57 JS and 7,62x54R are basically ballistic twins....well triplets!!.

This trio were the most powerful infantry cartridges during WWII.

On a case capacity/pressure specs scale, the ranking is the following:

1) 30-06: Case Capacity: 68 gr. H20, Pressure Specs: 60k psi (SAAMI), 59k psi (CIP)

2) 7,62x54R: Case Capacity: 64 gr. H2O, Pressure Specs: 58K psi (CIP), non SAAMI rated (as far as I know)

3) 8x57 JS: Case capacity: 63 gr. H2O, Pressure Specs: 35k psi (SAAMI, dowloaded American commercial specs to prevent accidents in older, weaker .318 cal. "J" bore rifles), 57K psi (CIP)


Behind them there were the others, 303 British, 7,7 Arisaka, 6,5 Arisaka, 6.5x52mm Mannlicher-Carcano, etc...

SCPigpen
May 10, 2010, 10:36 PM
220 Hornady works good with H4350 out of my M48. This is 50yrds.

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