8mm mauser


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turbojohn41
October 12, 2006, 01:04 PM
hi
im picking up a remington 700 classic in the 8mm mauser and was wondering what would be the best Sellier & Bellot ammunition to use on whitetail deer?
i seen they have some different sizes's listed on thier website.

thanks

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Jackal
October 12, 2006, 01:22 PM
If your gonna hunt with it, just spend the extra $$ and buy some Federal Premiums. Better to have a sure thing, than a wounded animal.

ArmedBear
October 12, 2006, 01:28 PM
Yeah, or Remington's own hunting ammo. Presumably, it shoots well in their gun.

BTW, as far as a clean kill, 8mm Mauser is ballistically similar to .30-30 or .35 Remington, so it's only about a 200 yard deer round.

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R8MSR*R30302*R35R2

Despite the fact that 8x57 and .30-06 were used by opposing armies in both world wars, the cartridges are not at all similar, ballistically.

turbojohn41
October 12, 2006, 01:36 PM
remington would be my first choice but after doing research on here the general concensus is the american loads are lighter then the Sellier & Bellot.

Zak Smith
October 12, 2006, 01:46 PM
Not exactly true.

American-loaded 8x57JS tends to be severely underloaded, in order to not blow any any of the old 0.318" bore rifles.

Original-spec 8x57JS, or European ammo (e.g. S&B), or reloads has ballistics practically identical to .30-06. 150's @ 3000 is usually easy.

-z

ArmedBear
October 12, 2006, 01:49 PM
True. Sorry for the mis-info.

S&B's ammo is a lot hotter, except for their JR ammo.

They have an 800 number, BTW.

http://www.sb-usa.com/rifle_pages/sba8x57_jrs.htm

Complete ballistic info on their site.

turbojohn41
October 12, 2006, 01:49 PM
thanks zak

so the JS are the ones i need to get?

Zak Smith
October 12, 2006, 01:54 PM
Realistically, the bullet selection is more important than a few FPS one way or the other.

turbojohn41
October 12, 2006, 01:57 PM
what do you suggest? i always liked remington and have had good luck with winchester or is it just personal preference?

asknight
October 12, 2006, 02:18 PM
American manufacturers are notorious for neutering Euro calibers for use in rifles over here. I've assumed many reasons why, but never confirmed any of them.

European spec ammo such as Norma really shines, which is a 196gr premium bullet at 2526fps. That's almost 2800ft/lbs at the muzzle and over 2200ft/lb at 100yds.

Prvi Partizan loads a 196gr to 2460fps, and a 250gr to 2165fps.

Sellier Bellot is loading with premium bullets now, such as Sierra and Barnes. I like what I've read about their Sierra GameKing loads.

MCgunner
October 12, 2006, 02:34 PM
BTW, as far as a clean kill, 8mm Mauser is ballistically similar to .30-30 or .35 Remington, so it's only about a 200 yard deer round.

Not the ones that have come off my reloading bench. I don't hunt with it, though.

I've fired the .323 spitzer ammo in my supposedly weak M88 commission rifle that has been rebarreled to the S specs. It was done pre-ww2 by German arsenals to be used for rear guard, Nazi youth, whatever. I've put probably 400 rounds of surplus 8x57S through it without a hitch. I don't shoot that old thing, much, more of a Manlicher than a Mauser action. Talk about a smooth bolt throw! WOW!

Even with light loaded American ammo, you're good probably to 300 yards PBR and plenty of energy on whitetail. I wouldn't worry about the load, just get one with a good bullet. The Federal Premium I'd certainly test. To optimize the potential of a very nice hunting rifle in a great old caliber, get some reloading equipment.

It's a good caliber, but kicks like a mule in that old commission rifle with that solid butt plate. Buddy and me bought these things for $27.50, sold as antiques. We didn't have FFLs at the time, but it was deliverable to the door. We split 800 rounds of surplus ammo. We were at his dad's farm shooting turtles off the tank (a time honored Texas tradition) one day and I put about 50 rounds through it shooting at turtles and various mud clods and cow patties around the tank. I couldn't move my friggin' arm the next day!:eek: ROFL! I don't see how those huns could take that sort of punishment in a full blown battle. OUCH!

Dr.Rob
October 12, 2006, 03:10 PM
S&B is harder to find but it's loaded the way it's supposed to be, a heavy 196 gr bullet at around 2500fps. Most 'American' mfg. ammo is a 170 gr bullet way down around 2300fps.

I haven't seen a 150 gr load at above 2700 fps, but that's definitely 30-06 territory.

If you can indeed get high end hunting bullets from S&B, I wouldn't hesitate to hunt elk with it.

MinScout
October 12, 2006, 03:52 PM
Even the domestic "underloaded" 8 mm ammo is slightly better than the 32 Special, which is considered a very credible deer cartridge out to 150 yards or so. You don't need much more than that in most eastern deer hunting areas. Just my $.02

Cosmoline
October 12, 2006, 04:42 PM
8x57 equal to .30-30? :D The myth keeps going around. But this highlights the larger problem It's high time IMHO to update SAAMI's specs to allow for proper 8x57JS loadings. There are only a handful of Commission mausers and pre-WWI Mausers that were never upgraded and strengthened for the "S" cartridge. Some collectors use them, shooting cast bullets or special .318" rounds from Graf & sons. But there simply aren't thousands of non-"S" chambered Commission rifles being taken into the woods for hunting. To the extent the J/JS safety issue ever really existed in this country, it doesn't pose a realistic threat anymore. It would be like preventing any .45-70 load hotter than a cowboy level 12,000 PSI load instead of SAAMI's 28,000 because somebody might be using an ancient, rusty trapdoor with weak metal.

As a result of SAAMI's absurdly low PSI, the domestic loads of 8x57JS are all but useless and foreign competitors are given even more edge than they already have.

mustanger98
October 12, 2006, 06:07 PM
Instead of worrying about what company loads what and what's it's equal to, I'd consult my copy of the Hornady 5th Edition load manual and load up some 150gr Interlocks, IIRC-but-don't-quote-me over IMR4064 or IMR4895, at whatever resonable speed, I think 2600-3000fps, they function well in the rifle in question. I'll have to consult the book but it seems to me the 300ydPBZ would be about right.

MCgunner
October 12, 2006, 06:12 PM
My cousin has a drilling my Uncle brought back from Germany after the war. It's a 16 gauge double over an 8x57JR, the rimmed .318" J version. I fired it about 38 years ago with Norma 8x57JR loads and it seemed pretty danged hot even in the JR caliber from Norma.

I'm sure there's one or two that have no clue about 8x57 barrels. It's a little complicated after all. I don't know if my cousin knows since he's not really a gun guy, just inherited the guns when my uncle died. But, he doesn't shoot anyway. Heck, knowin' him, he probably pawned the danged guns by now. :rolleyes: Well, no, he's an accountant, money hungry, probably had 'em appraised and auctioned knowing him. I'm sure some owners of J barrelled guns know what they have, but there's always a few dufuses out there who's day could be ruined. I don't know that it's wise to make full power 8x57S available readily by raising SAAMI specs. At least you can reload the 8x57 to its potential. If you reload, you know what you have, no doubt, and if you don't reload or don't know, well who's fault is that? LOL

Zak Smith
October 12, 2006, 06:18 PM
It's been over 5 years, but I believe my 8x57JS load is a 150gr Hornady SP with 50-some grains of W748. I was able to get 2900-3000fps with no pressure indicators.

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